The sad part is his press conference was the high point of his night and it was borderline a disaster.
Fortunately, we have something called the "transcript" which one can read to see Trump, for once stayed very disciplined and on point/target with numerous convincing facts to support the American people's wall which the experts, border security strongly advocate.
VS the other side, which spent much of their time vilifying Trump and his motives and feebly attempting to discredit the needed wall(which one of them voted for a decade ago) with misleading statements and the disingenuous absurdity that they would negotiate the wall later, after Trump caves to them now. Only idiots would believe that this will happen. Either we get the wall/fence which border patrol and experts tell us is needed (to go with other measures that both sides agree on) right now or there will never be one under Trump.
In what universe(other than the made up one of the dems) will the wall discussion come up again during this presidency and that next time the dems will vote for it?
Stopping illegal migration and keeping the door open for legal migration is the name of the game. One side is on board with maximizing our efforts to do this most effectively to make America safer and the economy stronger.
One side is out to block whatever the other side wants to do.
Complete transcripts: Trump speech, Democratic response
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01/08/complete-transcripts-trump-speech-democratic-response/
Well Mike, while you are factually correct, Frey is morally right.. sooo...
how about America had a good nite. Finally a leader willing to tackle the problem. And the left showing its ass on live Tv....again, couldn't be much better.
Trump's network presses Kelly Anne on the campaign fundraising charade.
"Stopping illegal migration and keeping the door open for legal migration is the name of the game."
Truth be told, Trump wants to stop ALL immigration from central America & Mexico. Trump hates Mexicans & Latinos & doesn't want ANY of them coming here.
well the fact checks are in and it gets worse for trump
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/08/fact-check-trumps-speech-on-the-border-crisis-1069539
and another view
and another
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/08/politics/fact-check-trump-immigration-speech/index.html
there is many more but they all just show the same results
when you need to lie to try and make your case you do not have either the FACTS OR MORALITY on your side.
but he does give his followers someone to blame
Lies to Congress will get Trump impeached.
Lies to millions of Americans gets a pat on the back from people like mcfarm.
Wait, Hillary said lies to congress and the American people don't matter. I thought you agreed :-)
carl, do not ever put words in my mouth again. I will not stand for it coming from any one, most especially a hypocrite from the left. Lies will get Trump exactly no where with me. Him trying to face huge problems kicked down the road for decades like China and the boarder deserve support from all of us...do not try that tactic again, its low, even low for a lib
As expected, the focus is not on the truths and need for America's wall on the southern border that dominated Trump's speech but instead, to look for items which are not factually correct...............that mean absolutely ZERO in whether a border is needed or not but can be used to bash Trump.
The questions are:
1. Would a wall on the southern border help to keep more illegal immigrants out and be worth 5 billion?
2. Who is for the wall and who is against the wall?
All the other misleading crapola makes no difference.
I venture that nobody here, including myself would be able to answer question #1.........without the assistance of sources we have on the internet.
I am using THE authoritative source............border security experts. What's your source?
"Most certainly, it already assists my men and women," Provost told Hill.TV's Buck Sexton on Wednesday.
"We already have many miles, over 600 miles of barrier along the border. I have been in locations where there was no barrier, and then I was there when we put it up. It certainly helps. It's not a be all end all. It's a part of a system. We need the technology, we need that infrastructure," she added in the interview that aired Thursday."
https://www.npr.org/2017/01/26/511745401/head-of-border-patrol-union-on-trumps-wall-plans
"INSKEEP: In a few seconds, how different do you think the country could be in three or four years if these proposals are carried out?
JUDD: Well, I think the country is going to be a lot safer.
INSKEEP: A lot safer.
JUDD: I really do, yes, absolutely. I mean, I was there with what they call the angel families, families that had children that were killed by persons that were in the United States illegally. If these laws are carried out properly - and he's not talking about new laws. By the way, he's not saying that he's going to give us new laws. He's talking about enforcing the laws that are currently on the books."
Hi Frey
Of course everybody has an opinion and many times the two very seldom agree. That is why I run my farm my way and others can do as they please. If I do a poor job, somebody else will be there to replace me. But I may be better than somebody else. The chips will fall on either side of the fence, but very few stay on top of the fence.[ Just a way of expressing myself in a way I understand] about elections and results there after
I can find just as many who agree with Trumps speech, so what do your articles prove?? I read them and also some who think differently
That is why your country and mine have elections
We choose our leaders
But: to say one or the other is always wrong is just plain silly. I have not seen a post from you that would address the problem in a way that most people would agree. Would you not think that is impossible. Why do we elect leaders if we don't let then do things the way they see fit. Somebody has to be the leader or the decider.
If you don't like Trump wait and vote accordingly
That is the true test of democracy and the strength of a country
Just imagine if you lived in a country like Venezuela
A wall would be the least of your worries
If you win the next election then tear the dang wall down , if you hate it that much.
So lets not forget what is such a big deal to you is just an accident of birth. Many people would just like clean water and a source of food every day
Your big bad Trump thing is so petty to many, many people on this planet, it actually makes me sick to think how much you have been coddled all your life
And I have also been coddled, so don't think you own that one.
An accident of birth gives you the right to complain??
Get over it and think how lucky you are. Is 5 billion going to bust the budget, or is it just being stubborn.
Next time around you may be more satisfied. That's the way it should be in our way of life and country
"how about America had a good nite. Finally a leader willing to tackle the problem."
"carl, do not ever put words in my mouth again."
Your words, mc. Now if that isn't a pat on the back, somebody please correct me.
"Wait, Hillary said lies to congress and the American people don't matter. I thought you agreed :-)"
Tim, her husband didn't fare so well and was impeached ... and what exactly were her lies to congress ?
(please, no supposition.)
Most people in the country do agree with me and fully understand that a border wall is asinine.
http://fortune.com/2018/12/12/trump-border-wall-poll/
and if you think this is a crisis maybe you should read this
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/border-wall-crisis-mexico-usa.html
were we need to concentrate our efforts is in fixing the drug issues that fuel the gangs. and that answer is to simply legalize the drugs and take the money out of them.
Mike
1) no it is not worth 5 billion there are better and cheaper ways
2) about 65% of americans have the wall as low priority but 95% + are for better border security
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/border-wall-crisis-mexico-usa.html
Americans views are important but what does this tell us about their understanding?
Over half of Americans believe that extreme weather and dangerous warming are already happening from an increase in CO2, which they know as carbon pollution.........instead of a massively beneficial gas causing mostly beneficial warming.
They were taught junk, one sided science based on busted global climate models used for a political agenda.
Because climate science was hijacked and people misled using an effective scheme, should we follow thru with the very bad political agenda because the scheme worked or should we educate people and then make smart decisions?
One objective that I have here as moderator is to educate people about something that I know about .......atmospheric science.
I didn't know squat about border security a month ago.
A month later, I have learned that neither does the rest of the country and they're just believing whatever source tells them what they want to read/hear.
I also found out what the view is from some experts that represent those that actually work and understand border security.......and it's different than what most people understand based on your article and other articles like it.
So should we make decisions based on people not understanding border security because the media is our educator or should we introduce them to enlightened views that are not represented by mainstream/news gatekeepers?
If you remember, my posts on climate change provide volumes of authentic data and facts that you have never seen before but are the key to understanding climate change.
You have never seen it before because only one side is always told by the gate keepers.
I am for educating the public when they have been misled vs using the misunderstanding against them to make bad decisions for everybody.
How many in your article know more about border security than what they have read in the paper and watched on tv or the Internet?
The majority of what Trump stated last night is true.
Yet, this is the complete opposite of the message that we are getting from the media today. The focus has been to find items in the speech that were misleading and disregard all the truths.
This is becuase the truth does not matter. Winning this battle does.
Just another battle in the war to defeat the hated enemy........our president, who has had more outside the box, non conforming pro American ideas than any president in my life time.
And his bad night is extending.
http://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-rebellion-against-donald-trumps-193844112.html
hey cliff, where ya been. Trump has been dragging rinos along for 2 years
Here comes the great deal maker, Donald Trump. He'll shake up DC.
No deal with the Chinese.
No deal with Democrats on anything (ram that tax give away to the rich down their throat).
No deal on Supreme court judge? (change the rules and ram THAT down their throat)
Does N. Korea count as a deal? I guess so if you call total capitulation a deal.
Nafta? A couple of tweaks. (no big deal)
Aside from the great damage this man-child is doing to our country (worst president ever), how does anyone believe anything that comes out of his mouth?
But as to the wall....
-------------------------
Will it make us more secure? Sure. Is it worth the money? No.
Are both sides being stubborn? Yes. If you ask me we should give the President his wall. In fact, I would let him put his name all over the wall in gold letters (Mexico will pay for the gold lettering I'm sure) Yes it is a waste of money. Yes he is a little baby. But the losses, both human and monetary, from closing the government will begin to make throwing 5 billion away on a stupid wall seem small.
Give Trump his wall.
Wednesday, 09 January 2019 01:36 PM
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-border-migrants-caravan/2019/01/09/id/897508/
"Central American minors and members of their families keep making their way toward the U.S. border despite President Donald Trump’s moves to stop caravans, USA Today is reporting."
"According to data released by U.S. Customs and Boarder Protection, agentsapprehended 27,518 members of family units in December – the highest monthly total on record.
In all, more than 60,000 migrants were either detained at U.S. ports of entry or taken into custody along the border for the third straight month."
With luck, the government will be closed for a year or better. Belgium's government was shut for close to two years in 2010-2011. The world did not end. At the end of it, the Belgium people realized how much of the government really wasn't needed. Hopefully, the same thing happens here. Carl, your credibility with me is a goose egg. You continue to rely on news sources that are completely biased. Anyone listening to all those media services that said Clinton won by 10 points are still bogus. If that is all you listen to, you get nothing but misinformation. With no agreement, Trump will use state of union address to declare it an emergency and use the military to build the wall. It cost about 1.8 billion to pay for incarcerated illegals each year. Three years cost of housing illegals would pay for it.
Came across an interesting tidbit. Trump's uncle, John Trump was a physicist at MIT. When Tesla died, he was the individual who was chosen to go through his safe and review his parents and inventions. Tesla, supposedly found a way to tap into the electromagnetic energy that is the glue holding the universe together. He wanted to give it to the world for free. Morgan, who was one of his early backers, stopped financing his research with Tesla's declaration that he wanted the world to have it for free. Donald Trump knows about these discoveries. The "60,000 sealed indictments" rumor always seemed more than what would be necessary to bring a hard core treasonous group to justice. But if you include all those trying to sequester the advanced technology for an elite, illuminati group, the number seems about the right size. Hopefully, this all comes to pass, Trump reveals this technology to the world and arrests those greedy, privileged warmongers who want endless wars to protect the flows of energy.
"Carl, your credibility with me is a goose egg." Lacey, I'm devasted.
"Tesla, supposedly found a way to tap into the electromagnetic energy that is the glue holding the universe together ... Trump reveals this technology to the world"
On the day that happens, I will kiss his bare feet in Times Square, and he can shoot me right after.
I do like your idea of giving America the wall that Donald Trump is pushing for.
As far as your extreme pessimism on his lack of making deals. Take a look outside of what the mainstream media is reporting and wants you to believe:
metmike: Certainly, Trump is not responsible for all of this but his biggest accomplishment, not even listed, was his very unpopular pulling out of the completely fraudulent Climate Accord, saving the US from devastating economic damages and many billions in pledge money. That decision(smartest move by a president in my life time), resulted in the rest of the world condemning him(they won't get our money) and accusing him of sabotaging the effort to save the planet(which is enjoying the best weather/climate and CO2 levels for life in 1,000 years). His own country, that he saved from the Climate Accord attacked him for doing it.
https://www.atr.org/obamas-paris-agreement-all-cost-and-no-benefit-us
"A recent studyby the Heritage Foundation projected that the Paris agreement and resulting policies would have increased electricity costs for a family of four between 13 and 20 percent annually. The study also projected American families would see over $20,000 of lost income by year 2035. Such regressive policy hits the nation’s most vulnerable hardest, who ironically are the same people Obama used to justify the deal. "
"The Paris debacle was also slated to reduce U.S. GDP by over $2.5 trillion, and result in an average shortfall of nearly 400,000 jobs by 2035. Of the 400,000 jobs lost, an estimated 200,000 would have been in the manufacturing sector. Meaning Americans would also have seen the costs of consumer goods such as electronics, paper products, and apparel increase, inevitably taking more out of household income."
metmike: I'm sure that you don't believe this stuff because the mainstream media says the opposite but you certainly have seen some of my climate change posts that prove definitively with authentic data that the Climate Accord was a big fat fraud.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/world/europe/france-fuel-carbon-tax.html
One thing that makes it interesting to me is this statement:
"There is little doubt among scientists and economists — many of whom are in Poland for the current round of climate negotiations — that putting a price on carbon is essential in the effort to reduce fossil fuel dependence. The question is how to design a carbon tax, and how to cushion the blow for the most vulnerable."
More "science is settled" "debate is over" stuff. Not only is there doubt about it, the data shows that they were wrong.....but won't acknowledge it. Now, its just a matter of tracking the actual weather/climate to assess how wrong they were...........then getting them to adjust the models and crazy future projections to something that fits reality based on observations.
The computer simulations of the atmosphere for the next 100 years based on a speculative theory(thats busted) fit nicely into a political agenda but its time to use science over politics.
"Trump’s list: 289 accomplishments in just 20 months, ‘relentless’ promise-keeping"
Mike, if you really believe that Trump has 289 accomplishments, then I've got some ocean front property in southern Indiana that I would like to sell you, sight unseen, & I'll give you a helluva deal on it. How bout it, we got a deal?
lacey,
Carl has loads of credibility with me.
It would be a bad idea for the government to shut down much longer and it doesn't seem possible that any democrats will budge.
So its the republicans who care about the consequences to our citizens including their image that will move.
I am for Trump declaring a national emergency to get it done.
The emergency is 3 fold.
1. Reopening the federal government is an emergency and if this is the only way to do it........wonderful. There are actually some (less important but useful) weather/climate products that are not available to us meteorologists because of the shut down but that part is not a big deal.
2. The democrats will NEVER agree to the funding of a wall or fence or for that matter, almost anything this president wants to do, especially now that they are taking over enough power to more effectively stop him.......which is what they are all about. Since the actual experts on border patrol believe strongly in the wall, it makes sense to get the wall ASAP, however it can be managed. Trump will be bombarded with bashing for declaring a national emergency but to me, the lack of consideration for America's best interest by those that only want to block Trump IS the national emergency.
3. Last but not least is the actual data on illegal immigration. Just use the stats from the article I posted above. These are not Trumps numbers. I am very much for legal immigration, so is Trump. A person that feels that way is not a racist or xenophobe. Illegal immigration is bad news. Why would anybody not want to take advantage of the advice of our border patrol experts on illegal immigration that includes a barrier/wall?
I think the US should do much, much more to help poor countries and open its doors to more immigrants. Letting in illegal immigrants messes it up for doing it the right way with the right people................whoops my bad. We are not "letting in" illegal immigrants. They are invading/breaking the law.
Is a flat out lie on your part.
The dems already agreed with trump and passed a plan he was on board with.
Well at least until trump let Hannity,Colter and Rush run him over
"Is a flat out lie on your part.
The dems already agreed with trump and passed a plan he was on board with.
Well at least until trump let Hannity,Colter and Rush run him over"
Frey,
1. I never tell lies/am all about truth.............but am wrong sometimes.You are very disrespectful in claiming this but you only hurt your own credibility when stating such a thing.
2. The dems would look pretty silly if they agreed to this wall earlier with Trump(some did with previous presidents on a different version of a wall) then suddenly won't agree on the same thing.
3. We constantly hear that Trump is a dictator that won't listen to any advice from anybody...............but at the same time, he is accused of being a sheeple, led on a leash by people that you consider to be awful to evil(Putin).
4. Your last post shows that its no longer possible to have an intelligent discussion with you on this topic.
Dang,
You didn't say much but provided enough crapola for me to make 4 solid points frey!
Mike,
Pulling out of deals (Paris, Iran, TPP) is not the same as MAKING deals. As Sam Rayburn once said: "Any Jacka$$ can knock a barn down, it takes a carpenter to build one."
But we shouldn't be surprised. The majority of voters knew he couldn't make deals before he entered office. Most RE players wouldn't have anything to do with him because he was, at all times, dishonorable in his dealings.
Carl, a quick video on Hilllary's lies.
The argument I keep hearing from the left is that a wall will not stop illegal immigration, all drug traffic, etc. And that's true. But this is from the same people who, for decades, have used the argument that if it saves one life, one child, etc. etc, it's worth it. Look at their arguments for "sensible gun legislation", most/all of which would have far less impact than the "ineffective wall" , a 5 billion dollar wall that accounts for less than a rounding error in a roughly 3.5+ trillion dollar federal budget. The same people who support more money than that in foreign aid, much to countries that hate us. We've given more to Iran.
But let's apply the same logic to another instance.
We spend billions on brakes for motor vehicles. Motor vehicle accidents are a leading cause of death in this country. Brakes are therefore ineffective.
Tim, this long video is of her actual testimony before Congress. I've spent an hour watching it, and invite you to do the same.
She answered all the questions asked and I heard no lies. I'm sure that with some supposition you can find some.
Carl, I've seen/heard her testimony, and so have you.
Did she say there was no classified material. Yes. Was there? Yes.
Did she say there was just one device? Yes. Was there? No.
Just 2 examples, but the list goes on.
So you don't mind the Rump lying, but won't tolerate it when Hillary does it. Got it.
"So you don't mind the Rump lying, but won't tolerate it when Hillary does it. Got it."
Actually, I've made several posts condemning Trump for lying, playing fast and loose with the truth.
This probably defines the biggest single difference between us Mojo. It bothers me when anyone lies on either side of the aisle. For you, it appears to only matter if they are "on the wrong side". You prove that daily by posting lie filled articles. You not only accept the lies, you celebrate them.
"This probably defines the biggest single difference between us Mojo. It bothers me when anyone lies on either side of the aisle. For you, it appears to only matter if they are "on the wrong side". You prove that daily by posting lie filled articles. You not only accept the lies, you celebrate them."
That is a damned lie.
Carl,
I'm betting you really don't want to be in the position that tries to defend Hillary Clinton based on her telling the truth(even if she does for an hour or more at times) and the conversation has sort of morphed into that.
Jimmy Carter is the only president or for that matter politician that I would go to bat for if somebody claimed that he lied about anything.
Tim,
Hard as it is to fathom, mojo probably believes all this stuff, so it would not be considered a lie.
"Pulling out of deals (Paris, Iran, TPP) is not the same as MAKING deals. As Sam Rayburn once said: "Any Jacka$$ can knock a barn down, it takes a carpenter to build one."
Cute saying joj, but it still does not negate the fact that Trump pulling out of the blatantly fraudulent and harmful(to the US) Paris Climate Accord was the smartest decision by a US president that I remember in my life time.
All I can do is present facts to support his very smart decision. You can respond by calling him a jacka$$, knocking a barn down.
So who is open minded and has the authentic position on this joj?
Who has decided to bash Trump on everything, without sincerely looking at the position or facts with regards to how it effects Americans?
Mike on Dec 22 trump agreed with Senate dems and republicans to a plan to avoid a shutdown and fund border security it was a bipartisan plan that seemed to be good with the Senate and the WH along with the belief that a Republican you f se would go along with it. All was good untilntrump abdicated the presidency to the tea baggers at fox and then TRUMP backed out
I posted on this event back then and stated that the Republicans in the Senate basically told trump were done you can go deal with the dems. I posted about this at that time and if IRCC YOU KIND OF JUMPED ME about how it belonged on NTR. The post seems to have gone missing.
But my memory tells me you read the article that I had limited from fox news about how trump betrayed his base on this deal and that is when he ( trump ) pulled out. It was not the deal he claims that is needed today but a compromise that all could live with and ween trump decided to let the fox tea baggers run the WH then trumpnpulled out.
And that is why I rightfully called you a liar and Will stand by that call
Frey, as a Lib here on the Forum, I need all the allies I can get ... but if you continue to violate the Forum rule about bad-mouthing a poster, it will not bode well.
Deleted because double post
"And that is why I rightfully called you a liar and Will stand by that call"
Dang frey,
The first time you called me a liar, last night, I just told you that you were being disrespectful and hurting your own credibility.
If you called somebody else here a liar, I probably would have issued a stern warning and looked for a response from you that indicated you knew this was in violation of etiquette/rules here and would not repeat it............but I have a stratospheric tolerance for not taking things personal, so you actually got away with calling the moderator a liar last night.
However, you have decided to double down on your infraction to make it an intentional, flagrant violation tonight.
Read the words of carl:
"Frey, as a Lib here on the Forum, I need all the allies I can get ... but if you continue to violate the Forum rule about bad-mouthing a poster, it will not bode well."
Again, I don't take this personal but as moderator must enforce a code of behavior that is acceptable so that we can be civil to each other.
Calling another person on our forum a liar or any other inflammatory name is a personal attack and is completely unacceptable, whether its the moderator or anyone else that posts here.
Do you understand this frey?