If the Administration would present a plan showing exactly where along the border the 5 Billion dollar Barrier would go, public opinion in the areas affected would force the Dems to give in.
no need for any of that now. Seems that dumbass jim Acosta did a special report on cnn showing just safe, secure and tranquil the border is where the barrier now exists...hell he did more completely accidently than he could ever know...the idiot might have just cost the libs the entire argument. Lets all hope so.
The amount of money Trump is requesting for the wall is chicken feed as far as the Federal Budget goes -- I really don't understand what is motivating Pelosi and Schumer to be such hard-liners about this, especially when Trump would almost surely give them something they really want more in return. Personally, I hope their intransigence ends up biting them in the ass.
what I don't understand.... they just approved a $10+ billion aid package for Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala. Why not cut this in half, and use the rest for the wall. That way, it could truly be said that Mexico paid for it.
Am I missing something?
but then, as was already said... this 5 billion expense is chickenfeed. It's not about the money... .it's about who is the most macho man in the ring.
" ... especially when Trump would almost surely give them something they really want more in return."
John, it's been weeks and all he has to do is put it on the table. Tit-for-tat.
Gunter, yes, it's all about who blinks first.
In his address the other night, he called for the other side to compromise. Deal making usually requires compromise from all parties.
Yeah,
The amount for America's barrier would equate to a cost of 1/772(0.00129) of the total Federal budget and around 1/64(0.016) of just the interest on the debt...........and would not be a repeating cost every year.
Whether Mexico pays for it or not has nothing to do with whether it would be part of an effective strategy to strengthen our southern border against illegal immigration.
One has to assume that most people against the barrier don't understand the realities and/or cost and are just believing the political spin being put on the situation.
How can a barrier/wall be immoral?
Moral people don't violate your laws and invade your country illegally. Why would we even want that type of person to be part of our country?
The same people refusing to budge on the wall because of the money issue are not taking the same extreme position across the board on many, even more costly items in the budget.
The barrier protecting our southern border is not like buying many billions worth of military weapons that kill people or exercising military intervention in foreign countries that don't want us there. The barrier/wall will more than likely SAVE lives not take them.
It will likely pay for itself in a short period too.
After researching it more the past few weeks, it seems to me that spending much more than $5.7 billion is justfied.
About how the farmers near McAllen Texas and then maybe you can understand that those that own the private property that the government taking their land
"Deal making usually requires compromise from all parties."
True carl but why does America have to pay the price................I'm not pointing to the shut down but instead, why is one side, refusing to give America something that it would benefit greatly from(this is NOT Trumps wall-it will be pure American owned until well after Trump is dead).
It's being presented as Trump's wall, of course because it was his idea, I get that but with this administration increasing expenditures on military weapons.............are they Trumps tanks and guns and bombs?
Nothing else in this or any other budget belongs to this or any other president. It belongs to America. However, the wall has been framed as "Trumps" wall and that he said that Mexico would pay for it and that building it is racist/xenophobic to generate a reality that either doesn't matter or doesn't exist but suits a political agenda/purpose which is to bring power to one side and take power from Trump...............in a very deceitful way.
Trump gets his facts messed up all the time and he's exaggerated some things on the wall too. But the actual facts, take out the politics from both sides, tell us that he's doing the right thing and those that oppose him on this issue are doing the wrong thing for America.
America is the loser.
"About how the farmers near McAllen Texas and then maybe you can understand that those that own the private property that the government taking their land"
Hugh????
What miniscule fraction of their land is going to be used to build a skinny, vertical wall that will be doing them a huge favor by keeping out intruders?
People pay a great deal of money for walls around their property and in this case they will be getting paid nicely for one. Of course you will be able to find people that object to the government on their land or that dislike anything Trump does.
Apparently, nobody cared about that issue when the NON-Trump walls were being built in the past.
https://qz.com/1517907/what-the-us-mexico-border-wall-actually-looks-like-right-now/
The government takes private property/land all the time, in every state in many areas to build roads, sewer systems and a zillion other things. The land owner is protected under the 5th amendment which entitles them to just compensation. There will likely not be one person that can show legal justification for the barrier not being built on their property.
https://realestate.findlaw.com/land-use-laws/the-taking-of-property-for-public-use.html
Here's the DTN article:
"Legal experts say Trump likely cannot waive eminent domain — which requires the government to demonstrate a public use for the land and provide landowners with compensation — by declaring a national emergency."
There is no way the land owners can win........and they shouldn't. If everybody that didn't want the government to use part of their property for an important public use got their way, the infrastructure in this country would have suffered tremendously.
Thousands of highways and other projects would never have been completed.
The barrier is not going to have much affect on their way of life. The government will show profound justification for needing the land for public use and give them a fair price. Some will waste time and money trying to fight the inevitable or to try to get a better offer but will lose.
"True carl but why does America have to pay the price"
Mike, the barrier will probably be built and for a lot more then chump change five billion.
.... but why does America have to pay the price when the money would be better spent on our crumbling infrastructure? How many bridges and freeway overpasses have to collapse, how many people have to die before Congress addresses that issue? It won't be the Democrats who say no on that one.
"the money would be better spent on our crumbling infrastructure?"It won't be the Democrats who say no on that one."
It sounds like Trump and the Democrats might be able to agree on infrastructure.......if he comes down in price.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/22/1-trillion-infrastructure-deal-864608
"It's been just eight months since Trump unfurled a $1.5 trillion infrastructure proposal that promptly sank without a trace in the Congress his party controls. Republicans and outside conservative groups fretted at the cost, while Democrats feared that the details of Trump’s plan would shortchange blue states and cities like New York while shredding environmental safeguards."
For weeks I've been saying that the cost of this wall doesn't amount to a rounding error in the federal budget. This debate is a purely political mechanization of the left and they are betting the farm on making this Trump's "Read my lips" moment.
To put it in perspective, you have a household annual budget of 47,000 and want to spent 57 dollars on a fence in the back yard.
Tim, if Trump wants to spend a million bucks on creating a golf course on the WH lawn, why not, it's only a lousy million bucks.
You really want to equate a border wall and national security to a golf course?
There are certainly good arguments for a border wall. Can't make one for a golf course.
Those who think Trump will "give the Dems something" for granting him his money for the wall have not been paying attention. Wall for dreamers? Trump said "no". (more to the point, Sean Hannity, Rush and Colter said "no")
This situation reminds me of parenting a 3 year old. When they are having a tantrum at home, you have to show tough love and not give in to their demands. But when that same 3 year old is having a tantrum in a public place, you have to just get through the situation. Yes Trump is a spoiled brat who has always gotten his way and a bully that needs a punch in the nose (badly). But we have to get through this.
Yes the wall is unnecessary as immigration flows with Mexico are now in a southerly direction.
Yes this idea of Trump's isn't made after some well thought out planning but invented as a red meat applause line in his stump speeches. (and now we are hostages)
As many here have noted, the cost we are arguing about is tiny on the scale of our overall budget.
Real damage being done with the shutdown. Even for those who supported him...
I'm ok with Democrats caving in and getting nothing beyond making the 3 year old stop his fussing.
"For weeks I've been saying that the cost of this wall doesn't amount to a rounding error in the federal budget."
"You really want to equate a border wall and national security to a golf course?"
Tim, of course not, but with your logic, he gets the golf course.
So, you are left with the National Security card. The benefit of the barrier, IMHO, is about equivalent to National Security is as the 5 billion is to the federal budget.
edited to add the last paragraph.
I'll agree to all the "facts" you presented above, including the "southern flow of immigration", if you stop throwing tantrums. <G>
And Carl, my logic depends on tangible benefits, which a golf course does not offer.
And MOJO, I love that meme. It fits right in with my argument against brakes on auto's because gosh darn it, auto accidents are still a leading cause of death.