What will become of us ?
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Started by mcfarmer - Feb. 21, 2019, 1:17 p.m.

Interesting article on rise and fall of civilizations:


Civilizations


When I taught history we always looked back on what caused each to eventually fail. What about ours ? Oh, and it eventually will fail, or at least morph into something other than what it is now. There is no precedent for any thing other than eventual decline.


My thinking ? Income inequality. I think some sort of government model incorporating aspects of capitalism and the type of social control the Chinese have developed. I think the US and China will meet somewhere in the middle.


Of course there are porch dogs who will deride my skills as an educator, even my intellect. But what say you ? What will the end be like ? Is our system so unique ?  If you don’t think there will be an end, give the reasoning.  That last requirement will limit the contributions, but I’m OK with that.

Comments
By metmike - Feb. 21, 2019, 1:38 p.m.
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What a wonderful topic to have a discussion on!

Thanks mcfarmer!

By WxFollower - Feb. 21, 2019, 1:44 p.m.
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 The US has already morphed into one country with two nations (red and blue) that largely hate each other more than the hatred of our enemy country leaders. I don't know how long the Us will remain one country. Will the two nations become two separate countries? If red and blue can't realize this danger and start compromising with each other again, I'm afraid some kind of breakup may eventually occur. I'm not actually predicting this but am thinking something like this COULD EVENTUALLY occur, red and blue. But if so, how would it be divided geographically since in many cases it is urban vs suburban/rural within the same state? So, would this even be feasible?


 What say you folks? Would you prefer red and blue be in different countries if it could somehow be managed? I know many red hate blue with a passion and many blue can't stand and look down upon red. Would you libs/cons be happier without any cons/libs in your country? Is that the way you want it?

By mcfarmer - Feb. 21, 2019, 1:56 p.m.
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At some point my hope is that a centrist candidate will emerge from one of the two parties who will be able to unite 60% or more of the electorate. With the primary system we have today that will be nigh impossible.

In order for any candidate to emerge they need to be rabid red or blue as you say. It would be difficult for a third party to break into the game, possibly one person from each party could gain support and run as a team. Our political system can’t run as is forever I don’t think.


I’m sure the eventual answer hasn’t been voiced yet, it will be interesting. We will have a two tiered society if things continue as they are now, we may have already. Health care may be the first area for this. If there becomes a time where health care is denied to a segment of society the pitchforks will come out.

By carlberky - Feb. 21, 2019, 2:05 p.m.
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Eventual decline … whether it's gradual or the result of revolt or the corruption of power ... it will happen, and I'm grateful it won't happen in my life time.

What can we do to at least delay it? Unfortunately, it takes a crisis to get politicians to forget about getting reelected and do what's right for the country. 

By mcfarmer - Feb. 21, 2019, 2:16 p.m.
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“ Unfortunately, it takes a crisis to get politicians to forget about getting reelected and do what's right for the country. ”


What might that crisis be ?

By metmike - Feb. 21, 2019, 2:44 p.m.
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Progressiveness and liberalism will gradually rule as younger people replace the dying people who represent conservatism. 

Christian Religious faith/beliefs will continue to weaken as atheism increases.

Unfortunately, morals/ethics and character will plunge. Very high confidence.

Regardless of what you think of the authenticity of religion and the belief in Jesus/God, the principles and parables and teachings of Jesus have had the most profoundly positive affect on human kind...........by several orders of magnitude over anything or anyone else.

This is not to say that you need this, many do not and there are plenty of hypocrits who are religious.........however,  the absence of being taught "love your neighbor" and "love your enemy" and  help the poor and less fortunate in an organized way, to define our ethics is not being replaced by anything comparable.

The Church is responsible for more charity work by many orders of magnitude than everything else combined. 


By carlberky - Feb. 21, 2019, 3:59 p.m.
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What might that crisis be ?

Another Pearl Harbor.

Infrastructure disaster with great loss of life.

Nuclear power plant disaster.

Invasion from out of space.

Something inconceivable.

Certainly NOT another school shooting.

By mcfarmer - Feb. 21, 2019, 5:05 p.m.
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Mike,

Progressive ideas do eventually win out, history is replete with examples deemed liberal eventually being mainstream. Very few times do the conservative philosophies hold sway for long. Ebb and flow certainly, but progress marches on.


To say there is no civility without religion in my view however just isn’t correct. We are in a time where religion has been relegated, at least in western societies, to the golden rule. In the past religion has been THE rule, not so anymore. Not in the West and Far East anyway.

I know many non religious folks who are some of the most love  your neighbor type people you could meet. I know some religious folks who are more of the screw your neighbor type. I don’t think one necessarily follows the other. Hypocrisy abounds, as we know.


Even most mainstream religions are becoming more progressive, with exceptions of course.


I vote space invaders. That would unite us.

By TimNew - Feb. 21, 2019, 9 p.m.
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I will say it again. Income inequality is not an issue.  Envy is the issue.  I have an extremely difficult time being kind to people who don't understand this.  Fact of the matter,  many/most of the benefits and comforts we enjoy today are the direct result of so called "income inequality".

Henry Ford found a great way to make cars.  And before unions,  he paid more for shorter hours because it improved quality.  His extended family is still reaping the benefits,  but not as much as the rest of the world.  We have affordable and reliable cars.  Our lives depend on it.

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates revolutionized personal computer operating systems. We could not be having this discussion without them. Billions of people have benefited. Many millions rely on it to make a living.

A CEO runs a company that employs 10 thousand people and he makes 10 million a year.  Cut his pay to 1 million and give all the employees 90 extra bux per year.  Wow. That'll fix it. Without the CEO, chances are the company would not exist and 10 thousand would not have jobs. 

We voluntarily pay them because we want/need what they give us.

And the "income inequality" people feel these producers need to be punished somehow.  Try living without them.

So, I agree, the issue of "Income Inequality" may ruin this country.  But not because of the people who deservedly earn the money.  It will be from the cry babies who think they deserve some/most of that money.

I'll put it in different words. Idiocy will ruin this country.





By TimNew - Feb. 21, 2019, 9:48 p.m.
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Mike. For decades I've heard that libs will take over as the liberal youth becomes the majority but the fact is, as people grow, many become conservative.  That may change.  

By mcfarmer - Feb. 21, 2019, 10:13 p.m.
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It is a statistical certainty that inequality can’t continue as it has the last ten-twenty years. The amount of wealth gathered by the few will eventually be unsupportable.


I can’t be bothered by getting the numbers but everyone has heard them, the migration of wealth to the top has got to slow, stop or reverse.


We can pick the method or the method will pick itself. It’s a fuse we can put out, and I believe has the ability to bring our society down if we do nothing.


I will refrain from name calling.

By TimNew - Feb. 21, 2019, 10:25 p.m.
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A statistical certainty? GUFFAW.  By all means, share your statistics.