Democratic debate #1 discussion
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Started by WxFollower - June 26, 2019, 8:58 p.m.

 Please use this thread to discuss tonight’s Dem debate, the 1st one (10 candidates). Please try to keep things civil. Thank you.

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By metmike - June 27, 2019, 1:39 a.m.
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Thanks Larry!  Thanks for doing this.

I just got back in. Looks like we had massive interest in the debate tonight (-:

I'll look at some clips and reviews and make a comment tomorrow......errr, later today.


What did you think?

By TimNew - June 27, 2019, 3:51 a.m.
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I think Beto's Spanish diatribe summed up the debate for me. Did you know that US citizenship is a requirement for voting in US elections?  Did you know that a working knowledge of the English language is a requirement of US citizenship?

Do you sometimes feel the dem party does not place much emphasis on representing US citizens?

By mcfarm - June 27, 2019, 6:27 a.m.
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tim.....yes.....yes....and YES!!!!!!!!!!!

By metmike - June 27, 2019, 7:09 p.m.
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I was very happy to see that they didn't waste much time on the fake climate crisis.


The activists on this issue were very upset.

                                                       

        Climate Crisis Only Gets 7 Minutes of Airtime at First Dem Debate    

https://www.ecowatch.com/climate-crisis-democratic-debate-2639001431.html

"Confronting the climate crisis is the No. 1 issue for 96 percent of Democratic voters, but it clocked only around seven minutes of airtime at the first Democratic Presidential debate Wednesday, Vox reported.

        

The small amount of time spent on climate change, and the fact that the first climate-centered questions came an hour and 22 minutes into the debate itself, as the Huffington Post reported, emphasized the need for a debate exclusively dedicated to the issue, something the Democratic National Committee (DNC) has so far refused."

metmike: The data that I show here on this issue speaks for itself but I think this issue has been dominated by people that have gone off the deep end, who, in order to try to make it a higher priority, have to exaggerate the exaggerations more and more to the point that the best weather and climate in 1,000 years, which is what we've been having with this climate optimum for life,  has been twisted into us destroying the planet in 12 years if we don't act right now. 

If we had one democratic candidate come out and tell us the truth about our planet greening up from beneficial CO2 increasing, along with the benefits that outweigh the negatives by a wide margin from the real global warming(instead of repeating the false narratives)..................I would vote for them. 


By metmike - June 27, 2019, 7:17 p.m.
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So who believes this survey by CNN? Not the moderators of last night's debate........or the candidates.

Poll: 96% of Democratic Voters Want 2020 Nominee to Prioritize Climate Action    

https://www.ecowatch.com/poll-voters-climate-change-2636010866.html

I'm betting we hear more about it tonight......possibly because last night, nobody had an opportunity to take an extreme position.........that would have caused the activist crowd to embrace that person.

So, lets say tonight, Bernie Sanders, who is pretty extreme on this topic(Biden has not been as far as I know) sees last nights lack of a discussion on the climate emergency as an opportunity for him to emerge as THE climate crisis guy who stands out amongst the others.

Yes, I think the odds are good of Sanders or others trying to do this tonight. 

By metmike - June 27, 2019, 7:29 p.m.
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I missed last night's debate but do think that it was good for them to spend a great deal of time discussing the very major and worsening health care crisis.

By metmike - June 27, 2019, 9:56 p.m.
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Biden making his open borders speech, gets called out by the fact that his administration deported over 3 million people.

https://nypost.com/2019/06/21/ice-claims-more-illegals-were-deported-under-obama-than-trump/

Trump isn't matching Obama deportation numbers

https://www.axios.com/immigration-ice-deportation-trump-obama-a72a0a44-540d-46bc-a671-cd65cf72f4b1.html


By metmike - June 27, 2019, 10:09 p.m.
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Good discussion on health care but they are completely missing the main reason. Everyone is blaming the insurance companies(and some-Sanders- the drug industry-which is good).

Insurance companies are passing on costs to them from the medical community for procedures, hospital stays, doctors and so on. That's the MAIN problem. No other country charges anything close to what we charge for the same stuff. Nobody wants to go there. 


Drug costs and the massive cost of medical care that have gone up into the stratosphere. It doesn't matter if the government pays for health care(which made it worse) or private insurance. Those costs are collapsing the system.

Free college tuition and forgiving student loans.  Just a pitch to get young people to vote for them and a recipe for colleges to continue the massive price gouging......when giving the students all that student loan money that they didn't have just made much worse.......it allowed colleges to jack up rates with impunity. 

 How about reigning in the tuition, that has gone up many times faster than any other costs(other than drugs/medical care) in the last 30 years???

Common dudes. If you want to beat Trump, your plans have be viable and address/fix the REAL problems.......not make them worse to get votes. 


By metmike - June 27, 2019, 10:49 p.m.
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They all agree that climate change is the worst thing facing mankind and all we need to do is replace fossil fuels with millions of green energy efficient jobs to save the world. 

I'm for that too. 

Also for having a money tree in my backyard that I can pick $100 bills from but, then I wake up in the morning and have to live in the real world. 


In the real world, fossil fuels are the inexpensive, reliable, energy efficient sources that serve as the life blood of all developed world economies.........which has gifted us with almost all the advanced technologies, transportation and massive benefits that would have to drastically shrink and turn into economy busting costly in order to go green.


You can't defy the laws of science, and physics when generating energy.


And the CO2 emissions that have resulted, rescued life on this planet from dangerously low levels of that beneficial gas. 

By metmike - June 27, 2019, 11:59 p.m.
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I liked Bernie Sanders position about being against funding weapons of mass destruction and the military industrial complex(though he wants to use the money to fund the battle against the climate emergency) 


https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1144433144516546560

By metmike - June 28, 2019, 12:27 a.m.
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All Democrats At Main Debate Agree Illegal Immigrants Should Get Health Care Coverage

                    

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/all_dem_candidates_raise_hand_when_asked_if_illegal_immigrants_should_get_health_care_coverage_at_debate.html

                        

By metmike - June 28, 2019, 1:29 a.m.
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CNN claims Kamela Harris was the big winner tonight................Joe BIdden a loser...at least from Chris Cuomo.


https://www.cnn.com/opinions/live-news/commentary-night-2-of-democratic-debate-june-27/index.html

By TimNew - June 28, 2019, 3:44 a.m.
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Harris accuses Biden of "Praising Racists" for saying he was able to work with democrat senators who were pro-segregation.  Kinda like how they accused Trump of "praising Nazi's and white supremacists".  

So many nuggets of BS came out of that debate it would take too long to list them all

How many here think the solution to college costs is free tuition  and student loan forgiveness? Most in the debate do.

How many here support health care for illegal aliens?  Every single candidate does.


By WxFollower - June 28, 2019, 3:36 p.m.
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 Although I am definitely not a supporter of her, I have to admit that Harris looked strong against Biden, whom I have said I like from my right of center independent perspective. (I'd call him a little left of center overall, which is far more moderate than most of the other Dems.) But I've just read that criticizing Harris endangers one to being labeled racist and misogynistic. That may have held Biden back from fighting back harder against her last night. Does anyone else feel that there's something seriously wrong with that picture? There's so much emphasis of many liberals on identity based politics that it almost seems like words like racist, sexist, homophobe, etc., are every other word coming out of their mouths and that they LOVE having the opportunity to spout out these words. I feel I'm as anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobe, and anti group based hatred/prejudices in general as just about anyone. But these liberals whom I'm describing not only cheapen accusations of true group based hatred. They also show as much, if not more, hatred back toward conservatives and even moderates (often HEAVILY profanity laden, too). To them that's ok as long as it isn't group based. They can be nasty as they want as long as it isn't group based hatred. By the way, isn't their general hatred toward non-liberals in reality just another form of group based hatred?

 Also, many of these liberals openly hate groups such as the police and rich folks rather than even attempting to distinguish the relatively few bad apples from the majority good. That's a form of prejudice if you ask me.  But to them that form of hatred is ok because the folks in those groups aren't in a weak position or some sort of BS like that.

 Many liberals first see every individual as being a member of a class first rather than seeing them for the unique person who they are. These folks are kind of acting like bigots, themselves, in doing so.

 For those who haven't seen it, I recommend they see the movie "Crash" from 2004. It highlights very well the hypocrisy of many who accuse others of being prejudiced as it shows in a very clever way that the accusers, themselves, often have their own different kinds of prejudices.

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 Edit: I forgot to mention the common hatred by liberals of white males and Christians, especially white male Christians. To them, that is fair game because they're not in a minority. Isn't generalizing with the term "white privilege" being prejudiced? Also, I think that many liberals who are anti-Israel and claim not be anti-Semites are really anti-Semites. 


 This may sound silly, but other groups many on the far left love to hate are Baby Boomers as well as old folks. If you are an old, white, male, Christian, you are the worst of the worst to them.

By metmike - June 29, 2019, 12:12 a.m.
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Hitting the nail on the head with numerous points Larry! 

By metmike - June 29, 2019, 5 a.m.
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They display intolerance of views that differ from theirs and will vilify those that disagree....accusing them of doing what they are actually doing with marketing schemes designed to make them look good and others look bad on all topics while allowing for no fruitful discussions to come together. 

The fake climate crisis for instance. We all have heard/read the expression “denier” used hundreds of times. This refers to people that don’t agree with the climate model predictions going out the next 100 years.....using verbiage that connects to the event that caused 6 million Jews to be killed by Hitler and some people deny happened. It’s a very offensive term and intellectual put down that is supposed to mean that deniers completely ignore the climate science and data accepted by the experts.

I am one of those deniers in their book. If you didn’t know me and my discussions, which have more authentic climate science and empirical data than any source .....every point that I make requires I provide the evidence....and you believed them........you would assume I was the complete opposite of how I really am.

This is me:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/27864/

Ironically, it is them denying dozens of authentic facts about the authentic science, including all of those that prove irrefutably that the  Climate Accord is fraudulent  but they are in control of the narrative. 

Which is that They are trying to save the planet....people like me have ulterior motives and are trying to stop them.

The world just cannot provide evil deniers like me a platform to confuse others with our points......so we must believe everything they say and do everything they claim must be done because they are the gate keepers of the knowledge and can even tell us, to the exact temperature, 1.5 degrees above a century ago And the year, 2030 when all will be lost unless we act now.......using a plan, the green new deal, that has a zero chance of doing what they say because of the laws of physics, chemistry, energy and economics. 

I am for renewable, clean and viable green energy. I’m also an environmentalist........but in their world, a denier can’t be like that.

So the trick is to convince the world that people like me are not like that and to believe only them.

With the MSM leading the charge they have succeeded in doing that....convincing the world that the current climate optimum for life is a crisis and deniers like me are bad and ignorant people. ...despite my dedication, thru actions to make the world a better place.

By TimNew - June 29, 2019, 7:31 a.m.
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I don't often speak in "memes", but this. to me, is spot on. Liberals have long embraced the idea of "designated victims groups" and criticism of a member of that group for any reason is considered "racist", "homophobic", "prejudiced", "bigoted"or any other number of labels which have essentially lost any meaning as a direct result of this"movement". This activity has replaced meaningful debate as have any number of tactics regularly employed by the left. While no one side is blameless, there is no greater single tactic that is more responsible for bringing an end to meaningful and civil discussion in this country, IMO.


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By carlberky - June 29, 2019, 12:35 p.m.
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... the common hatred by liberals of white males and Christians. WxFollower

Liberals have long embraced the idea of "designated victims groups". TimNew

Many liberals first see every individual as being a member of a class first rather than seeing them for the unique person who they are. These folks are kind of acting like bigots, themselves, in doing so.  WxFollower


Seems like group hatred for liberals to me.

By WxFollower - June 30, 2019, 1:46 a.m.
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Carl,

 Note my use of the words “common” and “many” rather than words like “most “ or “all”. My comments are based on actual observations rather than my merely generalizing. I hate their hatred and hypocrisy, not necessarily the individuals.

By carlberky - June 30, 2019, 6:42 a.m.
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Note my use of the words “common” and “many” rather than words like “most “ or “all”.

Larry, I did note that, and included that quote for the part that I italicized.

I'll do some more nit-picking here and mention that Merriam-Webster's definition of "common" is "of or relating to a community at large".
 

By TimNew - June 30, 2019, 8:26 a.m.
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I don't hate anyone Carl.   But I am strongly opposed to the agenda and the tactics of the left, and have come to the conclusion that they do not have the best interests of US citizens at heart. I don't know if they have bad intentions.  I think they are terribly misguided and the results can be seen in areas where they have been in power for the long term.  Massive homelessness, streets that look like public toilets and plagues that the industrialized world has not seen since the middle ages. Their stated objectives will only make this worse.

By metmike - June 30, 2019, 1:06 p.m.
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With regards to Larry's distinction between the verbiage/use of words.

I think this is significant with regards to how HE feels about the MAGNITUDE of the problem.........and this is important.

Also, sometimes, we(definitely me) use words to express how we feel that often are misinterpreted by others and sometimes, not exactly in tune with how we really feel but are the first ones that pop into our heads as we quickly type up a post, then send it off.

There are a great deal of times that I don't read over my post before sending it, then when doing so later, will realize it might have been misleading or could have been communicated better..........but already spend enough time posting and am not going for perfection. 

I think that Larry puts a great deal of thought into his insightful posts and this was one of the many excellent ones. 

By TimNew - June 30, 2019, 7:31 p.m.
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Thus is a fascinating study in the dynamics of group interaction.  MM, WX and I all said very similar things.  Carl called out WX and I for our comments.  MM defended WX for his  :-)