Trump bashing thread for cliff
35 responses | 0 likes
Started by metmike - Aug. 5, 2019, 1:35 a.m.

I asked cliff to please not use the El Paso shooting thread for pure Trump and Trump supporter bashing that had no relevance to the El Paso shooting(his first post did) but he either is being obtuse or is just seeking attention.....but no matter.

Here is a new thread that will help him to accomplish his mission of getting attention, while at the same time, allowing him to follow rules/protocol that he has decided don't apply to him.



                By cliff-e - Aug. 4, 2019, 9:23 p.m.            


"It's like it's incredible".

And it's been like that right from the get go and continues today.


                By cliff-e - Aug. 4, 2019, 10:10 p.m.            


Tragedies don't just happen...they are the result of ignorance and apathy.

By cliff-e - Aug. 5, 2019, 8 a.m.
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Here is the manifesto by the El Paso shooter (A resident of Dallas who travelled to El Paso to carry out this deranged premeditated plan). It contains the usual blame society and Dems and Pubs etc. etc. but in sentence #2 he uses the words "Hispanic Invasion"

And here is a link showing Trump also using the word "Invasion" whilst speaking to his loyal followers.

Words and actions have meaning and power and all of us need to be careful how we use words and actions as there are people who are both extremely impressionable and prone to violence.

By TimNew - Aug. 5, 2019, 10:40 a.m.
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Of all the ridiculous charges I've seen from the left,  blaming Trump for the actions of a madman because they both used words like "Invasion" has got to be close to the top of the list.

I noticed the shooter also used "The".  I've heard Trump say that many times. 

By metmike - Aug. 5, 2019, 11:54 a.m.
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I very much appreciate you taking advantage of this thread. It's a great discussion to have about this because it IS a major topic in our country right now and is being taken seriously by many millions who are convinced that Trump is a racist based on.............a mis-characterization of his actions, in my opinion.

I will repeat the response that was just delivered to joj because it gets to the crux. 


There's no problem with calling the shooter in El Paso a racist, white nationalist, xenophobic or whatever extreme, intolerant, hateful views were present that drove him(along with being mentally ill if that's the case).

The problem is in stating that Trump is responsible for this behavior. 

Was Obama responsible for the extreme radical Muslim attacks because he would not use that term in condemning them?

Muslims that misinterpret their faith and become extreme radicals become the terrorists..

So is it the fault of the Muslim leaders the teach the authentic, peaceful form of Islam to peaceful Muslims that we have radicals who kill people?

So Trump is teaching a peaceful form of US nationalism with MAGA. When and where did he ever promote killing people. He has policies for legal immigration and keeping out illegals and MAGA is all about the best interest of legal US citizens(that, as president he represents). 

So because white people comprise the majority of people in the US, and the ones that want to get in illegally are brown, this is twisted into him being a racist and xenophone.

The color of their skin has nothing to do with it. The status of their American citizen vs illegal or trying to get in illegally is the driving force in his decisions.

If all these people from Central America were white, do you think that his position would be completely different?

So happens that the vast majority of people not living in the US are non whites. 

A question could what universe defined by one side......... can Trump be for keeping illegal immigrants from invading our country(who are brown) and  have his pro American policies(for people that are mostly white) and be very patriotic (as leader of the USA and its mostly white people) and not be racist or a  xenophobe?"

That universe does not exist for many and those that don't agree with their take on Trump.......they are just part of the Trump cult who just can't see the REAL Trump as they do because they are the all knowing and all judging interpretors and gate keepers of information for the rest of us. 

metmike: Trump has a penchant for saying crazy, impulsive things with no off switch that tell us what he really thinks but he has never suggested or stated race as a clear element involved with his positions.

Of the many  thousands of times that he tweeted or stated non tactful and even offensive things to many people(he has offended, handicapped, fat people, women for instance) site for me one time that he blatantly used race?

He may have referred to the Mexicans and people in Central America in unfavorable terms but this is twisted into him doing it because of the color of their skin when the reality, is that its because he is making a case to keep out illegal immigrants.

Was calling Baltimore, a rat infesting place, "a rat infested place" a racist remark..........because most of its residents are black.

The reality is that this president cannot be critical of ANYTHING  or anyone that is non white without being called a racist. 

By mcfarm - Aug. 5, 2019, 1:29 p.m.
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Blame and politics have no place in the shooting story. But if blame must be placed at Trumps feet {and every dem and commy running for Pres  has already done so} it will then be fair to talk about other shootings.

As the left is famous for throwing around such ideas as outright armed revolution would it be fair to blame the shooting of the repubs in congress while practicing baseball on the libs? this shooting fiasco has gone way past blame and feel good measures by congress. They write some silly new law {hate crime} feel better and go home to their gated communities with armed guards and keep the violence in somebody else's neighborhood.

By metmike - Aug. 5, 2019, 3:31 p.m.
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For more info on the El Paso shooting go here:

For more info on the Dayton shooting(including the shooters anti Trump positions) go here:

For your amusement and my reinforcement of why these 2 characters should never be allowed to post here, this is what comes from them to me on a regular basis via contact the moderator:

Can you guess who message #1 was from and message #2 was from:

message #1: Wow, you are a true Trumptard.
DOW down over 800 points. Yippee!

message #2: You cannot interpret or read people's minds as you just did this morning regarding cliffe's post at 2:03 AM .  Further and more importantly, your 2:03 am post this morning is nothing short of censure ship, and smacks of Hitlerism.

Why can't you be consistent and ban him, like you have done to me and to other folks who are brave enough to speak out about Trump:  He is a racist, a sex offender, a liar, he obstructed justice, he ripped off students with his phony Trump University, he is in love with  a North Korean dictator (he admits it), etc., etc.

By cliff-e - Aug. 5, 2019, 6:42 p.m.
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Welp... may as well put these here since Cult 45 may not want to read/know this.

So now we presently have a trade war with soon to be Nuclear Arms race/war? That's quite a legacy for 45 and the cult 45

By metmike - Aug. 5, 2019, 7:40 p.m.
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Thanks cliff,

When the stock market crashes or there is bad news about China or in this case Russia, we know who is most likely to post here about it(-:

I appreciate the article with the shooters manifesto. I had not read it:

With regards to your comment:

"in sentence #2 he uses the words "Hispanic Invasion"

And here is a link showing Trump also using the word "Invasion" whilst speaking to his loyal followers."

metmike: In a manifesto with thousands of words, the smoking gun linking this directly to Trump, according to you is that the shooter used the words "Hispanic Invasion" and Trump has referred to the invasion of illegals crossing the border as an invasion........(which it is by any objective standard or definition). Trump didn't even say "Hispanic" invasion to denote race just "invasion".


an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.

"stadium guards are preparing for another invasion of fans"

synonyms:influx, inundation, inrush, rush, flood, torrent, deluge, stream, avalanche "every year the valley suffers an invasion of cars"

By metmike - Aug. 5, 2019, 7:54 p.m.
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Honestly, I seriously question why I am spending so much time responding to this hateful silliness and wonder if I should just ignore it(but then it goes uncontested and as moderator, I wouldn't feel right) or delete it, but my objective is to provide every opportunity for posters to express themselves as long as they are not attacking others or being too offensive.

On the other hand, cliff didn't come up with this way of thinking on his own and it defines the way many tens of millions of people think which is exactly the message that the MSM is sending out at this moment.

My sincere apologies to those that are getting very turned off by it. 

By GunterK - Aug. 5, 2019, 8:42 p.m.
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Hi cliff,

I am trying to improve my command of the English language...maybe you can help me out.

In your post, you mentioned that the El Paso shooter used the term "invasion", a word that also been used by Pres Trump. Therefore, Trump is to blame for the shooting.

When a single person is caught breaking through our borders, you would not call him an "Invader'. Maybe, you would call him an "intruder"

However, not long ago, the Border Patrol stated that they had arrested some 144,000 people attempting to crash our borders illegally, in one month alone.

144,000 is a military-size operation. On D-Day, the allied forces had some 150,000 men

Of course, I know... these people on our Southern Border are not soldiers. They are unarmed, and some of them are minors. Nevertheless, the size of this group is military-size, and their goal is to break through another country's borders and enter into that country. What's wrong with calling this an "invasion"?

By cliff-e - Aug. 6, 2019, 8:42 a.m.
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The Commander of Hypocrisy.

No photo description available.

By JP - Aug. 6, 2019, 1:39 p.m.
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The Commander of Hypocrisy: a wildly successful job of living down to expectations.

By mcfarm - Aug. 6, 2019, 1:48 p.m.
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gee out of the 7 posters 5 have to do with our boarder which finally after years some libs have even now admitted is out of control. The other 2 have to do with Hillary and the election. If I remember correctly she was trying to accuse him of everything from being a Russian spy to treason...come to find out who was colluding with Russia? Yes , lock her up and comey and brennan and clapper and all the rest

By metmike - Aug. 6, 2019, 5:59 p.m.
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"The Commander of Hypocrisy: a wildly successful job of living down to expectations."

I like to put the dates on threads that come out frequently, some daily to assist with things moving in an orderly fashion and help in identifying topics using time.

Maybe we can add a new item to the list:

"Trump  bashing, August 7, 2019" (-:

OK, I'm only half joking.


1. Would encourage posters to make hateful, sometimes not very bright and almost never positive contributions(as in bashing like a programmed zombie-example above- vs making astute observations critical of Trump with one's brain engaged)


1. Maybe it would divert the randomness to something with more order and all the Trump haters would have their own special thread to look forward to.

OK, bad idea but funny to post it. The last thing I want to do is to spend extra time trying to keep threads "pure" that only relate to the topic listed.

I did that this time with the shootings because of the tragic nature of the event, trying to minimize the already too hateful responses which completely messes up peoples mentality from where it should be in sympathizing with the victims and their families. 

You don't overcome evil deeds and hatred  in the world by escalating hatred to new heights. 

Love, support, compassion and understanding is most appropriate for a time like this, even if it can't be maintained at other non tragic times.

By cliff-e - Aug. 6, 2019, 9:28 p.m.
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The Derelict is still delinquent. Should this come as a surprise since he's gone thru bankruptcy 6 times?

By metmike - Aug. 6, 2019, 11:06 p.m.
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"According to the city, Trump’s campaign owed $470,417.05 for police and public safety services related to the February rally, which was not an official presidential visit. The city sent the Trump campaign a letter in May prior to the deadline notifying it of the past-due invoice and in June added a one-time 21 percent late fee penalty, bringing the total bill to $569,204.63."

Holy cow, a 21% late fee, which added 98,787.58 to the bill from an event from earlier this year!

Those people are crooks!

Trump should pay his bills on time but it's unethical to charge somebody a 21% late fee after they are late paying a bill by 4 months(Feb-June).

By metmike - Aug. 7, 2019, 12:13 a.m.
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Interesting that since the shootings, we've not heard anything hateful from one side or from the president. 

The other side that tells us that these shootings are the result of hatred is the one displaying all the hatred. Lots of it.

Yeah, I know, President Trump used the word invasion at a rally to describe the invasion at our southern border(which it is) and the shooter used the word invasion too.

I'm getting tired of reading that ludicrous logic in numerous MSM stories.  

Now the democrats are insisting that  Trump should not visit El Paso because they don't want him there.

Just great. How exactly does one get along with an opposing entity when they are attacking you constantly, calling you names(racist, white supremacist, xenophobe) blaming you for the death of innocent people, rejecting your efforts to show support to those who just suffered a great loss. 

The only relationship this side intends to have with you is the one that features them as investigators and you as the target........ as they openly try to destroy and impeach you while actively doing everything possible to block all your efforts to accomplish your objectives for the American people because they clearly hate you? 

Seriously, how does one get along with people that treat you like this?

That was not just a rhetorical question. I would like to hear thoughts on how Trump can  have a professional relationship  working together with democrats that are on a mission to obliterate him. 

He can be unTrumplike and take the high road and ignore all this stuff, which is an unrealistic expectation for most people especially him but I hope that somehow he manages to obtain the strength to do  that more than he has in the past. 

By JP - Aug. 7, 2019, 12:06 p.m.
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Maybe we can add a new item to the list:

"Trump  bashing, August 7, 2019" (-:

OK, I'm only half joking.


1. Would encourage posters to make hateful, sometimes not very bright and almost never positive contributions(as in bashing like a programmed zombie-example above- vs making astute observations critical of Trump with one's brain engaged)

But they already do that without any encouragement, so I say, go with it! Maybe you could give frequent Trump bashers their very own perma-threads by poster handle, so that they could take pride in their efforts by continuously updating the same complaints and assertions over and over and over and over as time goes on (not that they don't do that already, but this would give them a central depository for their bodies of work to look upon with pride and a sense of accomplishment, no matter how undeserved). Wouldn't that be wonderful?

By carlberky - Aug. 7, 2019, 2:37 p.m.
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The best way to expose our ignorance is to hold on to biased ideas and opinions, because we fear giving the upper hand to the other side.

Charles F. Glassman

By metmike - Aug. 7, 2019, 8:48 p.m.
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Good one carl!

One of the requirements of learning is to acknowledge ignorance.

If we were convinced that we knew everything about a topic, then is makes it difficult to learn new things about that topic because our mind would have a hard time accepting something that it does not believe exists!

When we are convinced that we are right about many things,  it just causes us to be wrong that much longer about the things that we are inevitably wrong about.

Celebrate and embrace and look forward to being wrong as it represents learning new things. 

By cliff-e - Aug. 8, 2019, 8:30 a.m.
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By TimNew - Aug. 8, 2019, 8:48 a.m.
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This "FireTucker" thing is the funniest thing yet.  Apparently, people who HATE Fox News can't change their channels and watch anything else.  So,  since they can't change the channel,  he MUST be FIRED!!.

It must be terrible to feel so helpless.

By cliff-e - Aug. 9, 2019, 9:53 a.m.
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By metmike - Aug. 9, 2019, 12:05 p.m.
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Thanks cliff!

We can note the title of the article as a tip off of what the mindset of the authors is, which is not going to provide us with much objectivity, just good old Trump bashing.

"Trump’s hypocritical war on savers"

They do however, have a point that Trump's priority has changed since becoming president.

Could it be that now, as president and being responsible for policies that effect economic growth and employment that low interest rates are much more important to him.

Before, he was just a rich guy that, like all rich guys, want the highest interest rates on their investments of millions of dollars.

Poor people do best with interest rates lower(they don't have money to invest and many live pay check to pay the economy/jobs matter most). Rich people do best with rates higher. They don't need a job, just high returns on there massive wealth.

Interesting that the authors failed to recognize that(they are supposedly the financial gurus at Yahoo, I'm just a yahoo from Indiana) but instead, even used the word "war" ......not on high interest rates but on "savers" to make it sound like its personal against this group of real describe Trump's actions so as to maximize the effect of verbiage to do damage in the eyes of those that

1. Hate Trump

2. Want higher interest rates.

So cliff, should we assume that you are somebody that wants higher interest rates based on this story or is it just a Trump bash on a policy that you might actually agree with but you never really took the time to think about?

Cliff, do you think interest rates should be higher or lower?

By cliff-e - Aug. 12, 2019, 10:04 p.m.
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By metmike - Aug. 12, 2019, 11:17 p.m.
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Thanks cliff,

I've always found this one amusing.

We all know the president is the all time greatest embellish-er of facts and then some but what's hilarious is the way that the Post, obliterates any credibility that they might have on the issue by doing exactly what the president does in conducting their so called fact checking.

They make stuff up and twist the interpretation to generate many thousands of what they call false statements that are actually true.

Here's some from just the last month:

Trump statement: Jul 31 2019

“We have the number one economy on earth. No economy is so strong.”

Repeated 39 times

Post ruling this false: "Trump first started saying this when the American economy expanded at an annual rate of 3.5 percent in the third quarter of 2018. Many other countries have faster growth rates, including China, India, Latvia, Poland and Greece."

metmike: This one generates the maximum Pinocchio's for the Post!. Why they would even question this indisputable  statement by Trump is ludicrous.

metmike: Top 20 Economies in the World

Trump statement: Jul 31 2019

“Unemployment for African-Americans, Hispanic-Americans and Asian-Americans have all reached the lowest rates ever recorded.”

Repeated 87 times

Post ruled that  this adds 87 lies to the presidents record for the following reasons:The current African American unemployment statistic has been in existence for less than 50 years. It reached a low of 5.9 percent in May 2018, but rose to 6.0 percent in July. An older set of government data suggests black unemployment went much lower in the 1950s. The Asian-American statistic has been around for less than 20 years. And while it reached a low of 2.0 percent rate in May 2018, it rose to 3.0 percent in July, the most recent month available. Hispanic unemployment has also rebounded. Lately, Trump has been using the word "reached," perhaps to indicate the lows are in the past."

Jul 31 2019

“We've created six million new jobs since Election Day. Nobody would have thought that was possible.”

Repeated 98 times

Post ruling: "Trump often inflates the number of jobs created under his presidency by counting from Election Day, rather than when he took the oath of office. There have been about 5.7 million jobs created since January 2017, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics."

metmike: So his number, rounding of to 6 million is a lie 98 times because the real number, was 5.7 million.

Jul 31 2019

“She got into colleges, she got teaching jobs. She said she was of Indian heritage. It turned out to be a lie. So Elizabeth Warren really has a big lack of credibility.”

Post: There is no evidence that Warren obtained teaching jobs because she claimed Native American heritage.

metmike: Elizabeth Warren DID lie about her Indian heritage for decades in college and on resumes so that she would have an advantage, being considered as a minority.

Aug 04 2019

“The Media has a big responsibility to life and safety in our Country. Fake News has contributed greatly to the anger and rage that has built up over many years. News coverage has got to start being fair, balanced and unbiased, or these terrible problems will only get worse!”

Post: There's some evidence to suggest that intense media coverage of a shooting could be partially to blame for a future mass shooting, but extensive coverage isn't the same as not being "fair" or "balanced," as Trump suggests. Plus, it's not likely journalist will just stop covering mass shootings, in part, as Pacific Standard explained, "media organizations have an ethical responsibility to bear witness to the tragedies of history, to ensure that future generations don’t forget the horrors of epochs past."

metmike: Wow, they know thats not what Trump is talking about as they take on this position  of moral high superiority, holier than though, dedicated to ethics..........even as they lie their arses off here...............doing exactly what Trump accused them of doing.

Aug 01 2019

We're trying to have a good relationship [with Russia]. It’s very hard, in light of the phony witch hunt, which is now dead. ”

Repeated 159 times

Post: Long bs response by them to justify the phony witch hunt, using unethical and illegal methods, intended to get Trump for something he was innocent of.

metmike: 159 times for Trump..........telling the truth!

So Trump DOES tell a lot of lies..........but the Post tells just as many!

By cliff-e - Aug. 13, 2019, 11:15 a.m.
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Yes it's true...all politicians lie but 2 wrongs don't make a right and 12000 lies in 900+ days surely won't. That goes well beyond pathologically lying but what's to be expected of someone who's filed bankruptcy 6 times and is on marriage 4 and countless other sordid affairs on the side and goes thru and uses staff like they were toilet paper? Etc.Etc.

The tin foil hats that Cult 45 wears are tarnished and melting.

By cliff-e - Aug. 13, 2019, 11:22 a.m.
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Yes time for a change. Bring on Bill Weld and/or John Kasich. Both are widely respected and could win.

By metmike - Aug. 13, 2019, 1:06 p.m.
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"12000 lies in 900+ days"

Actually cliff, as I proved, at least half of those lies were lies by the Post to smear Trump.

This is another case of the MSM being able to use the presidents mean personality to lie about him with impunity and never be held people believe all the bad stuff-even the bad stuff that is a lie-(racist, collusion with Russia) and never look at the facts since he is hated so much and doesn't get the same benefits of innocence until proven guilty that nice people get..........and the MSM is intentionally maximizing their efforts to create as much hatred  for Trump as possible. 

By WxFollower - Aug. 13, 2019, 1:42 p.m.
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 It isn't just that Trump is a meanie. He's extremely divisive and is pulling the US apart even further. He's acting much more like the President of the Red nation rather than the POTUS. The number of lies he tells makes the value of his word very low. I certainly don't trust him in the least.

Thank you Mooch. I agree with cliff and would much rather have Kasich or Weld. It isn't even close in my mind.

 2020 is going to depend on the moderates and independents like myself. The pro and anti Trump tribalists are for the most part not about to change.

 But all in all, I don't have a lot of hope for the US as one nation right now. Obama did a lot to increase divisiveness imo but I also think Trump has more than doubled down on what Obama did. Trump has easily been the worst in decades in the divisiveness dept. A POTUS isn't supposed to try to divide the country like that.

 It is way more than that he is a meanie.

By metmike - Aug. 13, 2019, 2:01 p.m.
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I agree 100% with your points Larry.

Trump is divisive. Trumps does tell lies. My point is that this treatment and acceptance of falsehoods about him are mainly based on him being mean.

Human nature is just that way.

We know that B.Clinton was a master at telling lies that were sometimes believable, but you couldn't help but admire his charisma and likeability even when you knew he was telling a whopper. ............and give him the benefit of the doubt.

If we like a person, they get the benefit of the doubt.

If we dislike them, they don't get the same benefit and if we hate them, they get what they deserve. 

For instance: Trump deserved to be investigated for 2+ years for a crime he didn't commit according to millions. Trump deserves to be called a racist and blamed for the El Paso shootings because he used the word invasion to describe the invasion at the southern border and the shooter used that word too.

This is wrong, even if he is mean. 

He is a racist for attacking a black man from Baltimore and the conditions in his city that has lots of blacks. 

Tens of millions are convinced this is evidence.

If this were Reagan that said the exact same things tactfully but with the same meanings........we would interpret it differently. 

By TimNew - Aug. 13, 2019, 2:59 p.m.
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When you like someone,  they can drop their bowl of soup in your lap and you'll both probably laugh about it.

When you don't like someone, the way they hold their spoon can drive you to distraction

By cliff-e - Aug. 17, 2019, 8:04 a.m.
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This administration is no friend of agriculture and rural America. And a few of us have known this from the very start.

By metmike - Aug. 17, 2019, 11:38 a.m.
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Another biased example of completely ignoring news that tells a story that one side doesn't want told and intentionally wording other news in headline grabbing attention, making it tell a negative story that you want people to remember. 

Never heard a peep out of you on this:

What Trump's new ethanol rules mean for you

U.S. EconomyFOXBusiness

"The move is also a boon to corn farmers, since corn is widely used to make ethanol domestically. Allowing for the year-round sale of E15 will give farmers more avenues to sell corn, which could bolster revenue especially when prices are low.

Shaw expects Trump’s recent action to create “tens of millions of gallons of immediate demand for ethanol.”

E15 vs. E10: Here’s What Trump’s Ethanol Deregulation Push Means


E15 ethanol is coming, like it or not. Here’s what you need to know

by Jim Koscs  //

By mcfarm - Aug. 17, 2019, 11:39 a.m.
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Cliff. Trump is a friend of America and by definition a friend of farmers. So far farmers by  wide margin support him. Enough said.

By metmike - Aug. 17, 2019, 11:58 a.m.
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It's actually ludicrous that any corn farmer would complain about the terms of an ethanol mandate, government imposed program forcing the market to blend billions of gallons of it into gasoline sold at the pump.

The RFS, no matter what shape or form, is an example of extreme bias in favor of farmers and the power of the corn lobby pushed to a limit, resulting in a disruption of the free market that many other groups oppose vehemently.

Funny how the Detroit News was just bashing Trump for being pro ethanol at the expense of everybody else(and you're bashing Trump for being the complete opposite).

Column: Fuel standards impede free market

"The RFS, as we all know, is bad for America’s economy and especially bad for working families. It’s also bad for our environment. When the full life-cycle emissions are considered, any weakly supported environmental argument for corn ethanol collapses, according to University of Michigan’s Energy Institute research. 

Faced with these facts and growing frustration from American consumers who are tired of politics as usual and shouldering higher energy costs, the Trump administration and some in Congress have recently considered options – like expanding the corn ethanol mandate – to prop up certain handpicked industries when they should be finding ways to end it."