There are people here that don't know me that well.
For you to understand my mindset on this topic, let me provide an example of one of the projects that I helped turn into a huge success recently:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/34791/
We know that the MSM wants to destroy Trump and everything that he stands for. At the same time, they are vehemently against racism, xenophobia, white supremacy and belief systems that have any semblence.
They have convinced themselves that Trump stands for those things and made it their mission to convince everybody else too of the same thing.
They are tripping over themselves trying to come up with creative spins to show evidence that Trump is a racist and is sending positive messages to people like the El Paso shooter. For instance, Trump used the word invasion to describe the invasion of our southern border(which by all objective standards it is an invasion) and out of thousands of words used by the killer, he also used the word invasion, so dozens of news sources site this as evidence of a link........Trump sending a message.
There are numerous similar instances that defy common sense but are being used to try to convince everybody everywhere that President Trump is a racist and a white supremacist.
If I thought that for a moment, I would not want to have anything to do with him and would be the first in line to attack him for it. If this was true, we should blatantly expose him with authentic facts......but there are none. Not one shred of evidence other than twisting his words and actions to have a meaning that they, from what I can tell as somebody that greatly detests racism, were never intended to mean.(wanting to have legal immigration is not racist for instance just because the illegals are brown)
This is how it empowers white supremacists/racists and why they are coming out of the woodwork suddenly:
The MSM is not exposing a white supremacist president because Trump is not a white supremacist, sending secret messages to other white supremacists that only the MSM is smart enough to understand and interpret for us.
What it's doing is telling all the white supremacists and racists out there "hey, the president of the United States is one of you guys and he endorses your belief system!"
We think its disgusting and are fighting against it but on your side, you now have the most powerful person on the planet, the leader of the free world, who feels just like you do about black and brown people(Trump obviously likes Jews, so we can't put them in there.....err, until the MSM comes up with a new twist).
If you are a white supremacist, this has all been music to your ears! Instead of going into hiding and having secret meetings and losing enthusiasm for your awful movement, this is a huge shot in the arm. You root for President Trump and love it when the media tells us that your man is running the country with your agenda's.
Trump has not been the big boon to racists and white supremacy but the media's portrayal of what they want everybody to think that Trump brings to these people has been their boon.
In trying to discredit and destroy Trump using this method they have inadvertently energized the groups which had been gradually dying out. They do numerous stories about how white supremacy and racism are making a comeback to blame Trump when the reality is..........it's their coverage and stories about this movement becoming more powerful that is exactly giving them the positive reinforcement and attention that these groups feed on.
So has attacking Trump relentlessly and blaming him for the shootings been productive in fighting racism?
Trump comes out with statements to condemn racism and bigotry and hatred and white supremacy after these events, surely a sign that his is NOT encouraging them, which is the message these people are supposedly hearing from him and just heard the opposite from Trump himself.
An opportunity for the other side to unite with the president in the fight against all those things right? Send a united message from both sides to these despicable people that your belief system is evil, right?
No, the other side, instead claims that Trump doesn't really mean it. He really is a white supremacist and racist and we should not believe him.
According to the MSM reports, for all those people who belong to groups that support that evil belief system........, take heart your president still supports you. More music to their ears from the MSM.
There is no question that the MSM sincerely wants to stomp out racism, white supremacy and other evil entities but sometimes when you pursue a personal objective (and crushing Trump is personal with them) with an ends justifies the means, while only considering what you want and not the damage you might be doing elsewhere..........unintended consequences result.
This is not to deny that President Trump could do a much better job at communicating the right messages to Americans as it relates to this issue.
Unfortunately, the way that he communicates and his personality flaws are his fatal weak points as well as the fact that he is not cut out to naturally deliver messages with the same sincere aura of an Obama or warmness of Reagan or likeability of B. Clinton.
And because he can be mean at times, it's very difficult to believe him when he is nice.
Regardless, the MSM makes a living on delivering convincing sounding messages...tv anchors are hired, often based exclusively on their skills to do this.
They have been delivering the exactly wrong message on how to act with honesty and integrity in this realm(while gushing out and encouraging hatred towards their target) and the next year+ is going to get even worse.
Sad because they think that they are doing this for the best interest of their viewers and the people of this country.
They have decided that besides "reporting" the news, they should also be responsible for subjectively interpreting it and adjusting it so that it lines up with the messages that "they" have decided are best for us to know.
We know that Trump does everything for the best interest of legal US citizens.
How can 2 entities caring about the same people's best interest be so far apart?
One got elected by US citizens to do their job running the government that we pay taxes to run in order to serve us best.
The other entity? They get paid too but decided on their own to take on their current role of imposing their opinions and political belief system on us..........which right now is doing the most damage of all to our country with the growing divisiveness and hate.
To be fair, this also includes some anchors at Fox News but the main ones that do this there are commentators, that commentate the right side's message upfront, appealing to their biased right side viewers vs pure news reporting that violates the objectivity standard by inserting, one sided editorial verbiage and messages hidden in numerous places in the story/report.
And when Trump supporters launch an effort to clean up parts of Baltimore, the media gets annoyed.
Not sure why I bother, but here goes....
These are Trump's words...
Mexicans coming here are mostly rapists and drug dealers (both hateful and false)
Called Judge Curial hateful and unfair because he is Mexican (the very definition of racist)
Invasion - He used it dozens of times in speeches.... (Oh come on! It isn't an army)
Immigrants "infesting" our country (nice word if you want to dehumanize a people)
Separating children from their families as policy in large numbers. (perhaps not racist, but cruel and dehumanizing)
There are good people on both sides. OMG defending NAZIs
Lets not forget "sh*t hole countries" I know a Trump apologist would say it is not racist but be aware that immigrants that came from Ireland were reviled, as were Jews from eastern Europe and downtrodden immigrants from other countries. Give us your tired, poor yearning to be free... PHDs in a secure economic setting don't migrate to other countries. And these immigrants made as stronger. I'm not talking about the legality issue. Just the attitude about foreigners being "less than human".
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The leader of the Birther movement (talk about fake news) - If Trump isn't a racist he is certainly catering to racists who think a black president is by definition not legitimate. Name me any white candidate to have to endure such garbage.
The Central park 5, for whom Trump called for the death penalty are proven INNOCENT by DNA and Trump doubles down on them. (unbelievable)
Trump advocated a register for Muslim US citizens. (Didn't the Germans try that?)
Trump instituted a policy of a Muslim ban. Rejected at first by the courts and then watered down until it passed.
Falsely claimed that Muslim US citizens celebrated by the 1000s on 9-11.
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Blaming the above on the MSM is ridiculous in my view.
Why the MSM is empowering racists
"Why" should have reasoning based on facts. You have nothing but what you may consider overwhelming opinions and suppositions ... but they are still nothing but opinions and suppositions.
Mike, when someone says that Trump empowers white supremacists you rush to Trump's defense, and them you go both barrels against the dreaded MSM for also drawing conclusions.
By quoting Trump's words, who is responsible for the message ... the sender or the media ?
By quoting Trump's words, who is responsible for the message ... the sender or the media ?
How about when the MSM Misquotes, misrepresents or takes quotes out of context?
I will agree that direct and accurate quotes leave little room for debate.
carl,
Its what the media does with Trump's words.
It's how the MSM twists and spins meanings out of them.
My favorite recent example.
We are having an invasion at our southern border. 100,000 people are illegally crossing the border. Trump calls it an invasion because it is an invasion.
Then, when the MSM reads the shooters manifesto, they see that he used the expression "Hispanic invasion". Out of thousands of words, they decide to use that one to link it to Trump because Trump calls it in invasion too.
What the heck is it if it isn't an invasion?
an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.
"stadium guards are preparing for another invasion of fans"
| synonyms: | influx, inundation, inrush, rush, flood, torrent, deluge, stream, avalanche "every year the valley suffers an invasion of cars" |
They use this as evidence that Trump is a racist. So its not quoting Trump calling it an invasion but the meaning that they give those words based on their biased interpretation in trying to creatively attach a racist connection.
I read this in numerous MSN articles and watched commenators on CNN do it. So they all repeat the same things over and over. One source may start it, then they all copy each other and repeat the same absurd reasoning in unison, and it appears as if they are confirming the facts..........when its not a fact at all that using the term invasion for the invators, who just happen to be brown, makes you a racist and links you to the shooter.
Carl,
Here's my fact/evidence on how it effects people:
Cliff even posted on this and pointed out Trumps use of invasion as the evidence............so its working on those who want to believe everything.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/36092/
Re: Trump bashing thread for cliff
By cliff-e - Aug. 5, 2019, 8 a.m.
"Here is the manifesto by the El Paso shooter (A resident of Dallas who travelled to El Paso to carry out this deranged premeditated plan). It contains the usual blame society and Dems and Pubs etc. etc. but in sentence #2 he uses the words "Hispanic Invasion"
http://thefederalistpapers.org/opinion/el-paso-shooters-entire-purported-manifesto
And here is a link showing Trump also using the word "Invasion" whilst speaking to his loyal followers.
Words and actions have meaning and power and all of us need to be careful how we use words and actions as there are people who are both extremely impressionable and prone to violence."
joj,
You also pointed to the word invasion as if its the wrong word. It's actually the word that I use for what's going on down there. Gunter has often used it too.
Are we racists?
Look at the definition of invasion I provided from legal sources. Why insist that it can only be used with armies?
The absurd part is the linkage between him using that (completely acceptable) word according to its standard definition and the shooter using it.
Doing that, then spreading it like wildfire across the MSM as proof that Trump is a racist.
This intentionally paints our president as a racist/white supremacist using unethical tactics.
I have no doubt that they believe he is a racist.
If that's true, then why don't they have the compelling evidence?
Nothing but speculation and subjective interpretations of words or expressions that he used. No actions or clear examples. He's been around for 40 years, you would think there would be a long history or LEGIT evidence.
Good people on both sides. I get tired of hearing that bogus one as if it was his stamp of approval for white supremacy.
There WERE good people there protesting the removal of the statute for good reasons that were NOT racists or white supremacists.
He came out later and clarified that but as usual that part gets ignored and the vilifying narrative lives on and on and on.
Like I said, Trump is not the best communicator on many issues, including this one. I know that you, the dems and MSM are convinced he's a racists.
I have been active my entire life in opposing racism and helping brown/black people. You show me authentic proof that Trump is a racist and I will adjust my opinion.
BTW, I'm not judging you. My son in law is the best son in law on the planet. He is black and believes Trump is a racist, as does his(they are my family too) family.
They didn't get that idea from doing independent reserach on Donald Trump. They learned it from the MSM teaching them.
Thanks to Gunter, we have seen some good information with regards to the comments that Trump made about Baltimore.
No need to show proof. One side immediately twisted Trumps remarks into being motivated by racism.......with zero evidence.
Because Baltimore is mostly black? Because the man he criticized is black? That's the logic from one side and it wasn't just from a few sources. It was the TOP story for numerous days........Trump is a racist. This was more evidence(fake news).
I have no doubt that when white supremacists vote, they vote Trump(as if that makes him racist)
But do racists act like this:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-08/maga-supporters-clean-12-tons-trash-west-baltimore-streets
The article below is the quintessential example of how the media will not give Trump or Trump supporters a fair shake............no matter what they do:
"Last week, Townhall coveredMAGA supporter Scott Presler's call to action in Baltimore by inviting "Americans to help Americans" and go clean up neighborhoods in Charm City. Presler at first kept secret when the event would occur for fear of retaliation from the far-left like Antifa. But, on Saturday, Presler and 100 other citizens from all over the country traveled to West Baltimore for the massive trash clean up. By all measures, it was hugely successful. However, on Monday, the Baltimore Sun's editorial board ran an op-ed, trashing Presler and his group saying they only did the event to embarrass Baltimore and its residents.
The op-ed was snarkily titled, "We assume it was pure motives that led a Trump supporter to launch a cleanup in Cummings’ district, right?"
metmike: So what side was being hateful, biased, inflaming racial tensions and what side was trying to make it better with a solution......traveling across the country for many of them was no small effort(that absurdly was rejected because one side will NOT acknowledge any interpretation of anything related to Trump that is not evil and racist.
Carl,
Since you like to see facts, you can use the article from the Baltimore Sun above as another one that supports my position.
So all one can ask is that Trump and his supporters be judged by their actions, not the words which the MSM twists to have secret racist meanings that were not intended that way.
As for the MSM, I don't believe anything they say about Trump unless there is objective evidence. They do a wonderful job covering non political events/items. I'm not saying don't watch them. I watch CNN all the time to hear what they are saying about Trump and one should make up their own minds.
Well - The fact that Trump is a racist has nothing to do with going after Cummings 7th district, which has a median income of 60,000. He went after Cummings because Cummings is continuing his investigation of Trump and his crimes.
So I guess we at least partly agree on this one.
and you want to talk about truth joj? Well here is the unvarnished truth. Cummings has been the elected rep of Baltimore longer than most Americans can remember. And you know what? Baltimore and its poor blacks are worse off for it. Cummings has kept the poor blacks exactly where he and the other libs want. Poor helpless victims dependent on the gov from cradle to grave. That is the truth, deal with that fact while the poor black live day to day just like the plantation blacks did a 150 years ago. Might want to ask Cummings as he goes to his next tax payer meal, with his tax payer funded health care, and his tax payer funded retirement just how his black slaves are living in Baltimore.
joj,
So you agree that he is being dragged thru the racist mud without justification related to his comments about Baltimore.
I agree with you on why he did it.
Regarding Baltimore, Gunter started this thread earlier today:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/36420/
Been thinking about that one more. As a member of our local Operation City Beautiful for 2 decades, which the media and government help to promote and are a part of, it blows my mind that the Baltimore media, government and others don't care enough about these people to help them clean up their community................like a bunch of out of town, complete strangers, Trump supporters just did.
This is one of the things that we do in Evansville Indiana to keep our city clean. Why is there no leadership in Baltimore doing this sort of thing??
http://www.cleanevansville.org/
| Date | Theme | Area Of Focus | |
|---|---|---|---|
 | Saturday, September 14, 2019 | September Clean Up | St. Joseph - Lloyd Expressway |
| Saturday, October 5, 2019 | October Clean Up | Cedar Hall School |
| Saturday, November 2, 2019 | November Clean Up | Morgan Ave - Greenriver Road |
| Saturday, December 7, 2019 | December Clean Up | Washington Square Mal |
The "Muslim ban" is another of the many misrepresentations of Trump's words and deeds. When 95% of Muslims can still travel freely, it's not a"Muslim Ban" by any stretch of the imagination. But honestly representing it for what it was leaves little room for actual debate. Much like being "Pro-illegal immigration" carries far less weight than "Pro-Immigration".
Oddly enough, in spite of the numerous times these "Phrases" and "arguments" have been debunked by numerous sources, you'll still see them used. Often. "Tell the same lie over and over and...."
"Muslim Ban" were Trump's words, not mine. But spin away...
Essentially true, but not really correct. I found one case where he used the phrase "Muslim Ban" on the campaign trail in the summer of 2016. But the following is typical of what he had to say on the subject during the campaign.
"We have to stop on a temporary basis at least, but we have to stop people from pouring into this country until we find out what the hell is going on… . We don’t want to have these problems, and we’ve already got ’em. Look at this weekend. We don’t want to have these problems. So what I’m saying is it’s a temporary ban, in particular for certain people coming from certain horrible—where you have tremendous terrorism in the world. You know what those places are. But we have to put a stop to it. We have to put a stop to it until such time as we can figure out what is going on."
In the final analysis, you can't call an act a "Muslim Ban" when 95% of Muslims can travel freely, unless of course, you really really want to.
And one more time, but probably not the last because these never seem to "stick", the actual "Very Fine People" statement.
“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”
“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”
So, I'll ask again. Is it ignorance or blatant dishonesty that allows someone to read this and come away with the conclusion that Trump called Nazis "very fine people?
This discussion has yielded some wonderful results.
We have Trump saying things about numerous issues at numerous times.
1. Temporary ban on certain Muslim states based on data(that was turned into a hating Muslim narrative).
2. Good people on both sides that included a condemnation of the bad ones on one side(that part never made it to the narrative)
3. Using the very appropriate word "invasion" to describe the invasion (100,000/month) of ILLEGAL people crossing over our southern border and linking it to the mass murderer's manifesto, because he used the word invasion. And using it as evidence that Trump is a racist.
4. We don't have his Baltimore words about rats and trash but needless to say, because it was aimed at a black man and a district of mostly black people, this was twisted like a pretzel to mean that he is a racist.
There are many more examples but these are perfect.
So we have 2 completely opposite meanings gleaned from the exact same words, some quoted exactly from Trump's mouth.
How can this be?
First off, it's easy to take SOME of the words that somebody says in part of their response and leave out the rest in order to make it appear as if they are saying what you want them to appear to be saying. The media has been doing that, sometimes not intentionally for decades but in this case, it's THE objective.
The media has also come of with incredibly creative ways to spin what they say Trump really means with words, that uttered by any other human would have the exact opposite meaning. "invasion" or "rats" or "good people" when used by Trump are racist.
So there are some bottom lines.
1. Trump cannot be against anything or have agenda that penalizes any realm which has a vast majority of people that are not white or he is racist.
2. When he makes statements in interactions with non white people or non white groups, his verbiage will be scrutinized by the MSM and they will pick out certain words and/or sentences out of the entire exchange(which is needed to understand his position) then take those selected words and tell us why we should know about why they are evidence of him being a racist(by stretching the meaning into a realm that was totally unintended by Trump). Then, the MSM repeats their twisted version of that meaning over and over and over, so this is the only one that people know and remember.................and it serves as the evidence that Trump is a racist. There are so many, many occurrences of this exact thing happening out of the exact same playbook, that people think that Trump is constantly saying racist things and acting racist. But if you go back to each time and look at the circumstances, like we just did, you will see that it was purely a false narrative created by the MSM to paint Trump as a racist.
And it has worked extremely well.
So I go back to my original point.
Trump is not being called out for being a racist, he is being called a racist, intentionally painted as a racist, using unethical/dishonest schemes, even though the ones doing it, sincerely believe that he is a racist, which in their minds, justifies doing it like this.
Accusing a guilty man of being somebody that he isn't and doing something that he didn't do defines the relationship of Trump to the other side. Note the Russia collusion, 2+ year investigation in which we were told during that entire time that Trump was a traitor and this was "worse than Watergate" and everybody that believes that Trump is a racist today, believed every word of that for 2+ years.
We know now with absolute certainty that Trump was innocent and this was just a plot to get him. Before we learned, that for those that were caught up in the world of false assumptions, the evidence that we heard about sure seemed pretty dang convincing didn't it?
It was ALL manufactured. It was all lies and the MSM played the biggest role repeating the false narrative for 2+ years, twisting facts and using speculation.
The Trump is a racist narrative are the exact same groups, doing the exact same thing to try to destroy the exact same man.
I have seen no authentic evidence that Trump is a racist or encouragement by him for racists to do bad things to non white people. However, the MSM elevating the status of racism to the level of it operating the most powerful position in the US and the world(and having pro racist agenda) has provided racists everywhere with a feeling of empowerment.
And once again, cuz I like the sound of it, based on the results of actions taken by this admin, if Trump is a racist, he really sux at it.
They were counting on the Russian collusion issue to take out Trump and since that blew up in their faces, they have been focusing on racial division.
This is part of the marketing scheme to take out Trump.
The shooting in El Paso was a hate crime from a person that hated Hispanics. There are others like that and people that hate blacks too. Racists. We can't over broadcast the message of this being despicable and people that think this way are evil.
But here is where the mainstream media takes an exactly wrong turn on the issue.
They condemn this act but at the same time use it to their advantage politically to bring down the president.
They don't just think that he is a racist but they WANT him to be a racist because that gives them justification to use it against the president.
One sign of this is when Trump comes out with the same message, condemning all these same groups that they condemn. instead of uniting with the president, using his messages to fight these groups, together, both sides(which is what genuine people do) they, instead tell us not to believe the president means those words(which they can't spin this time to have a racist meaning like they often do).
Instead, believe them, that Trump and his supporters are racists and its a battle between them, representing equal rights for every human being and him and his supporters, the white supremacists and racists.
If they were to unite with Trump against these evil groups.................they completely lose their ammunition to attack and destroy him. So they need for him to be a racist for their marketing scheme to work.
This is also the worst thing imaginable for race relations. There really are racists and bad people in this world and we should obliterate their belief system at every opportunity. However, for the ones still being discriminated...........blacks/browns, does it help you to trust whites and work with them in unity when the MSM is telling you that Trump is a racist and his supports support this sort of thing?
There are many groups that are trying to or even banning MAGA hats because they claim it's a symbol or racism.
The group of whites that went to Baltimore were very cautious about advertising their presence because they anticipated a potential negative response by Trump haters and blacks in the community that has been taught to believe that they are evil.
They were hated before they even came there by some people. After some of the blacks in the community got to know them...............they realized they were just human beings wanting to help other human beings........ vs racist whites that support racist Trump.