After not wanting to start impeachment proceedings against Trump it seems to me this whistle Blower of unknown name or position and the conversation Trump had with Ukraine has pushed Pelosie oveer the edge
It looks as if she could not hold out any longer
But a strange thing happened
Right after Pelossie made her impeachment statement, Trump told the news media he would release the un-redacted transcript of his conversation
So now you have the Dems with [what they hope will be] jaws a dripping with Trumps blood
Except Trump will release the transcript
Now do you think ole Trump was hoping the Dems would impeach and then Trump plays his Trump card by releasing the transcript
This could end up with more egg on the Dems of which they have a habit of stepping in pooh so often that now it is egg on the face of every Dem except, except that lady from Hawaii
This could help Trump in 2020
First of all it is an impeachment inquiry. One step closer.
As for releasing “the full unredacted transcript”... According to the WSJ there were 8 such phone calls!!
Of course Trump will release the most innocuous of the 8 calls. He’s good at PR.
Trump’s own appointed IG. found the the whistle blower complaint to be of “urgent concern”.
As with ALL of Trump’s corruption The thing I find most disturbing is the way in which all of his apologists lineup like a little ducks.
so Mr JOJ is now President. An unknown person hears a rendition of a conversation Mr Joj has with another world leader. This unknown person who did not hear the conversation then decides, because of his dislike for Mr JOJ, he should run and file a whistle blower complaint. Now comes this raving bunch of wacked out congressmen who then decide instead of looking at the evidence they will file to impeach. What did Clint always say? "Go ahead, make my day"
"As with ALL of Trump’s corruption The thing I find most disturbing is the way in which all of his apologists lineup like a little ducks."
Ducks? You appear to have applied the wrong 5 letter word. You must be referring to FACTS lining up, not ducks.
On just one issue for instance, Trump got bashed, slandered, accused of being a traitor and lots more for 2.5 years.....................then the facts came out.
Remember that Russian investigation joj? The one that was supposed to show that Trump colluded with Russia? After $35,000,000 spent, using dozens of agents and many thousands of hours, it showed he was innocent.
That would be called a FACT not a DUCK.
Here is the Mueller report. If there's a crime that President Trump committed, please point it out for us from this report.
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5955997-Muellerreport
JOJ Says Trump is good at PR? Yeah, he has the public and the press eating out of his hands :-)
This may be the funniest thing I've heard in quite some time.. Obama was good at PR. Clinton was a master. Reagan, pretty good.
But Trump is probably the worst PR president in the history of the country, if not the universe.
I will admit he works the dems with his twitter account as if it were a laser pen in a room full of cats.. But that's not "PR".
Here are a few FACTS that Trump apologists overlook.
From the Mueller report:
I believe I've heard the term "innocent" applied to Trump and his campaign by some posters here. Mueller specifically articulated that if they could exonerate Trump of criminal behavior they would have. They said that they could NOT. How you find "innocent" in that is baffling to me.
The investigation found there were over 100 contacts between Trump campaign advisors and individuals affiliated with the Russian government.
Trump took the meeting with the Russians to get dirt on Clinton. If not illegal, certainly breaking new ground for every campaign in our history. Mueller had no proof that Trump's son notified his father about the meeting. If you believe that I've got bridge to sell you.
Obstruction of justice (from the report): "investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations"
Trump apologists actually lapped up the slop put out by Giuliani and others that if there was no criminal charge then there couldn't be obstruction.
The investigation led to 34 indictments including several Trump campaign operatives.
(money well spent in my view)
The report found alarming evidence of Russian interference in our election process and that it is an ongoing threat. (money well spent in my view) Protect us president Trump! Protect us Moscow Mitch!! Naaahhh Moscow Mitch's excuse was that money had been allocated to the states for that purpose. Lord help us! That is like sending money to Hawaii after the Pearl harbor attack and saying "job done".
-----
As for PR. PR is NOT how much positive coverage does the press give Trump. The press gives Trump horrid coverage because he conducts the presidency in an appalling way. PR is flaunting norms and getting away with it in broad daylight. PR is attacking the life long GOP, military hero, and through that PR campaign, muddying the waters so that the public (not the press) eats up that garbage. Perhaps I should not have used the term PR. Propaganda would be more accurate.
I promise not to read the responses to this post as I've already spent WAY more time than I should on it. But flame on all you Trump lovers!!
Among the definition changes libs seem to love. and there are so many.
Trump apologist/lover= Anyone who does not hate Trump as much as I do, which is to the core of my soul.
And I love the continued reference to the legitimacy of Mueller's claim that he could not exonerate Trump.
See, the thing is, never in the history of investigation has the stated or implied intent of the investigators been to prove the innocence of the investigatee. NEVER as in not once, EVER!! It's a binary thing. You prove guilt or you do not.
But in a political witch hunt, these rules fall by the wayside.
Anyway, I see JOJ has retreated from his "Trump is the best at PR" claim. Can't blame him.
He won't read this, of course, but the rest of us can have a chuckle :-)
"I promise not to read the responses to this post as I've already spent WAY more time than I should on it. But flame on all you Trump lovers!!"
You provided zero FACTS from the Mueller report that showed Trump committed collusion or committed a crime, instead bringing into it, the nonsense that Mueller used to make it appear as if it was justified.
I'm the one that actually spends too much time on this..........because I feel obligated, as moderator to make corrections to mischaracterizations and false statements/fake news, so people get the truth.
I respect you wanting to bail out of the discussion for whatever reason. I sincerely appreciate your contributions and know that those who hate Trump, just see me as a Trump lover.
This is exactly a result of what hate causes. It blinds you to facts. It blinds you to see others point of view. It blinds you to objectivity. All your views start with preconceived notions and assumptions based on the hated person NOT getting the benefit of the doubt or innocent until proven guilty. In fact GUILTY when innocent. It results in people believing in the unbelievable because critical thinking is discarded and the emotion hate has permeated, to dominate most thought processes related to the entity which is hated.
I've explained here a dozen times that my feelings for Trump personally are the complete opposite of what you describe. He is a despicable human being in many realms that I cherish in my personal life. See links below.
But as a scientist, who believes in the science, not the scientist, I see his political platform and agenda representing the profound truths, exactly as he presents them. His truths are in his actions and agenda and this speaks loudly to me.
I don't believe in the law of gravity because Issac Newton discovered it or that the world is round because of who discovered it. The physics prove the science. The facts, which we analyze critically are separated from our feelings for the scientist/person who first discovered it.
An interesting example that related to this. Galileo was hated by alot of people in his time when he contended that the earth revolved around the sun. They refused to believe the science and facts because they hated him and assigned evil intentions to his authentic position.
Hate does this and the hatred for Trump today, exceeds anything that I've witnessed in my life time.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/galileo-is-convicted-of-heresy
Here's more on Trump, hatred and my position if you care to read it"
Trump being Trump
6 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Sept. 13, 2019, 3:45 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/38921/
Identity ‘fusion’ with political leader
Started by pj - Sept. 5, 2019, 4:09 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/38452/
Those that think that this is one sided should be reminded of this:
By metmike - July 21, 2019, 7 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/34963/
Tim,
I don't consider this one of your better posts.
It's nothing but an Obama bashing post for the sake of bashing Obama from a person that obviously hates Obama.
Also, it's best with posts to include the link, along with the title/source, then, below that a few key points..........not the entire article.
I certainly get very long winded with my own post, using my own words............ but please try to avoid putting entire articles from other sources.
Here's the transcript:
The White House on Sept 25, 2019 released the official transcript of President Trump's July phone call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky.
https://www.scribd.com/document/427409969/Official-Transcript#download&from_embed
We have another thread going on this topic here. Sorry for posting the same thing at both threads but this is taking more of my time than I would prefer to spend on hate.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/39387/
As expected, here are the insane responses:
This "transcript" itself is a smoking gun. If this is the version of events the president's team thinks is most favorable, he is in very deep jeopardy. We need to see the full whistleblower complaint and the administration needs to follow the law
Hillary Clinton ✔ @HillaryClinton
The president of the United States has betrayed our country.
That’s not a political statement—it’s a harsh reality, and we must act.
He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free.
I support impeachment.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Like I stated early in this thread, we have reached a new level of stupid in this realm. Exactly as I speculated earlier here, President Trump asked the president of Ukraine to assist him with an investigation..........into a situation that clearly should be investigated by any objective/ethical standards.
Of course he did it because if was Biden, as I mentioned.
How ludicrous and hypocritical it would be to say the biased intelligence agencies can investigate Trump for 2.5 years for crimes he did not commit, using manufactured, fake information paid for by the democrats to destroy an innocent republican(because he was of the opposition party).........who was proved to not commit those crimes and a sitting president, is not able to ask another president to investigate corruption in his own country that was committed by a person in the US because it was a person of the opposing party.
So the rule must be:
If you are a democrat or member of the intelligence community, you can spend tens of millions and years investigating and targeting your political opponent using fake information...........which has proven to be fake information
If you are the political opponent, even if you hold the title of the highest office in the land, you are not allowed to even ask for assistance for an investigation into what looks like legit, no brainer reasoning for a LEGIT investigation because it targets your opponent.
This would be like the cops pulling over 2 cars with drugs.
The first one, looks like it has 500 lbs of a cocaine like substance, and possibly some fentanyl. The 2nd one has some marijuana residue from the occupant spilling the weed when he rolled a joint.
The first one is the son of a cop, so they let him go.
The 2nd one, is a poor guy with no connections to law enforcement and in fact, has a bumper sticker on his car that says: "Police brutality is a crime" . For him, 5 more cop cars, a drug sniffing dog and some crooked cops come in with planted drugs to frame the guy.
Guess which driver is Biden and which one is Trump (-:
so all things the MSM's were going nuts about yesterday have proven to be nonsense,,,,again....Biden was not mentioned 8 times, there was no illegal trading or forcing, there was however one major thing mentioned that the libs will regret. The libs hired a corrupt outfit to claim the Russians hacked their server, Guess what it was fake. The libs said it, the msm carried their water again. Between going one more substantiation to the very beginning of the fake Collusion story we will now have a green light right into the corruption of one creepy joe biden which eventually will lead right to our first fake black President. Trump again is miles ahead of the looney left.
So now, all the impeachable offenses that we were told that President Trump committed previously..........are suddenly not as impeachable as we were told because this is the one.
This one is, because they always knew from the get go that they were going to go for the impeachment and have been doing all these investigations into Trump, just waiting until they get the best dirt.........THEN, go for the impeachment when we are close to a year to go for the election, using the best one.
In case you disagree with that, here is the proof below:
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-impeachment-inquiry-09-25-2019/index.html
"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told Democrats in a private meeting today that she wants to focus the impeachment inquiry on Ukraine — as Democrats debate how broad to draft articles of impeachment against President Trump, according to several sources involved in the discussions
Despite months of focus on the Mueller findings and allegations of obstruction of justice, Pelosi and top Democrats believe their strongest case for impeachment to the American public is over the President’s ask that the Ukrainians investigate his political rival, former Vice President Joe Biden."
And what are they trying to impeach President Trump over right now?
An investigation request by him into Biden because Biden is a political enemy.
Are people brain dead???
The democrats and intelligence people have the franchise for doing this! Look at the list of investigations at the link above into TRUMP because of the politics of the democrats.
They want to open every investigation that they can think of under the sun for 3 years(84 is the number in this story) to get your political opponent, then #85 on your list, is him doing what you did to him 84 times?
Hugh??
Let's say we have 2 guys in a public place that get into an argument. Guy number 1, Demo Dave punches guy number 2, 84 times in a row.............with a large crowd cheering guy number 1 on(MSM).
Bloodied, beat up and staggering, guy number 2, Evil Don, finally fights back and punches guy number one for the first time. Immediately, the cops are called. They arrest Evil Don and charge him with assault for punching Demo Dave..........and the crowd insists that Evil Don should be held accountable and to throw the book at him.
We've been hearing from one side, that the smoking gun with absolute certainty was the evidence in the Mueller report that was so indisputable that Trump was going down......first for collusion, then for obstruction of justice(people don't get charged with blocking investigations into crimes they are innocent of-this was stupid).
Now this. Because it seems better.
Right, better than nothing.
Time was running out before the 2020 election, so they were just doing as many investigations as possible, then when they got to best manufactured dirt........it was time to go for the impeachment.
I'm not defending Trump with regards to the ethics of using his influence to try to get the Ukraine to investigate, what clearly is suspicious activities of his political opponent(the facts look bad for Biden but he deserves an investigation to be exonerated).
But doing exactly this and going way beyond it(manufacturing fake stuff to get Trump) is what has defined the ones who are now attacking Trump for it.
Let's say you have a huge football game between 2 rivals that hate each other. Team D pays off the refs, so the refs overlook dozens of blatant violations....... clipping, off sides, face mask, unsportmanlike conduct.
At the same time, calling penalties on team R when their was no infraction..........pass interference when the replay shows the receiver on Team D was never touched.
Then, early in the 4th quarter, the plan that was hatched prior to the game between Team D and the refs goes into effect. Team R goes off sides. A minor penalty but the refs immediately call for the game to end in a forfeit and Team R losing because the Team R coach objected to the unfair officiating.
Like I said on the other thread yesterday...................I'm spending too much time on this.(-:
BTW,
The innocuous phone call did not show at all what the dems claimed it did/does. There was not withholding of money or aid or other promises tied directly to his request. Just a request by Trump for them to look into that situation............as if the president can't do that?
And the worst part, is that foreign leaders of other countries, will be leery of having conversations with our president from now on because those that hate him will be spying and trying to use anything that is said against him.
this line from a great movie pretty much sums up today's evil doings by the dems and how Trump handled it all......"whooped 'em again, didn't we Josie"
metmike: Another fun day of divisive political battling and hatred
I really am trying to understand how this is different from the investigation launched into Trump's "collusion" with Russia prior to the last presidential election that was launched by Obama.
Different political party.
And that one allowed for manufactured information, this one called for an "investigation" not a framing.
How no investigation into Biden and his son can be justified makes no sense based on the clear facts.
An investigation is justified.
From ABC news investigation Jun 20, 2019,
From: The New Yorker
By Adam Entous
July 1, 2019
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/08/will-hunter-biden-jeopardize-his-fathers-campaign
But today, they are circling the Joe Biden wagons and pretending there isn't anything there.
From CNN:
Instead of the investigation that should be done for blatatanly obvious reasons, now Joe Biden is the VICTIM:
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/whistleblower-complaint-impeachment-inquiry/index.html
"Why Biden matters: President Trump repeatedly pushed for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Biden, and his son, Hunter, during a July 25 phone call, according to a transcript of the conversation released by the White House.
There is no evidence of wrongdoing on the Bidens' parts."
metmike: There's a ton of evidence, I just showed you some of it above....... but an investigation should be done before we know if it was just many strange coincidences that are unlikely to happen by chance(and that prove Biden is innocent-which is possible) or if this was the corruption that it appears to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukllLia4zaI
Sounded like an honest, ethical man despite attempts to assasinate his character with allegations of him being part of a cover up.
Get the impeachment process started again please. We've known it was coming again for 2 years.
"Green’s articles of impeachment cite Trump’s remarks in the aftermath of a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, as well as his attacks on Rep. Frederica Wilson (D-Fla.) and his repeated criticism of NFL players who have protested abuses by police officers by kneeling during the national anthem.
“Friends, whether we like it or not, we now have a bigot in the White House who incites hatred and hostility,” he wrote in a letter to colleagues on Tuesday."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Donald_Trump
"Efforts to impeach Donald Trump have been made by various people and groups who assert that U.S. president Donald Trump has engaged in impeachable activity both before and during his presidency.[1][2] Talk of impeachment began before Trump took office"
Here's how it will go:
The democratic house will impeach Trump because they have the majority and this is clearly political.
Then, it goes to the Senate which has a republican majority and the Senate requires a 2/3rd majority vote for impeachment. There is almost no chance that Trump will be impeached in the Senate and he will remain in office to finish his term.
Should Trump get elected again in 2020, there will likely be new calls for impeachment based on yet, unknown circumstances, possibly focusing on the legitimacy of the election itself, with new allegations and a new narrative that joins the previous 99 that must not have done the job if we reach that point(-:
Political activist CNN puts pressure on dems that have not committed to impeachment for the Trump phone call(attempting to get an investigation into the Biden corruption) by listing them individually and broadcasting their names to embarrass them.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/whistleblower-impeachment-inquiry-09-27-2019/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/27/politics/house-democrats-impeachment/
metmike: Gee, I wonder if one's views and actions on this are based on partisan politics?
Either it means that there are 0 republicans with ethics, morals, patriotism and they don't care about the Constitution or are really dumb and think that Trump is great president..........or something else is going on.
By ALICIA PARLAPIANO, JASON KAO, EMILY COCHRANE and CATIE EDMONDSON
Support an impeachment inquiry | No, not now, or undecided | Awaiting response | |
---|---|---|---|
Democrats | 220 | 15 | 0 |
Independents | 1 | 0 | 0 |
Republicans | 0 | 143 | 55 |
Total | 221 | 158 | 55 |
Note: Representative Sean Duffy, Republican of Wisconsin, left office earlier this week, leaving one vacancy in the House.
Again, this means that when it comes to a vote in the Senate, where a 2/3rds majority is needed and the Republicans have a majority, there is a near 0 chance of Trump being impeached from office and with 100% certainty, all the Democrats know this.
They WANT him to stay in office as damaged goods from the impeachment. Their worst nightmare would be a Mike Pence running on Donald Trumps clearly superior for America's agenda. Or any other republican(with a pleasant, likeable personality) running on Donald Trumps agenda.
Watch the nightly news and you will hear that President Donald Trump is finished for real this time. Apparently his call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has all of the hallmarks of a defining moment of his time in office, and comes complete with an impeachment inquiry to boot. However, the last three years of polemic and bombastic “scandals” touted by Democrats mean that many Americans have already tuned out.
This is not because of some deep character flaw or disinterest in civic life. Instead, Democrats and their allies in the mainstream media have beaten impeachment fever on a politics weary country since before Trump even entered office
The impeachment inquiry may not yield the damaging effect the left seeks due to the almost nonstop drumbeat from the Democrats and the media about the legitimacy of Trump in the White House. Earlier this year, The Atlantic published the stark headline “Impeach Donald Trump.” Efforts over the last two years in Congress include failed House Resolution 646, which charged the president with racism and “inciting hatred.”
House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler filed a resolution calling for possible criminal charges tied to the Stormy Daniels hush money payments. The Democrats also wanted Trump out of office for supposed violations of the emoluments clause of the Constitution. The largest letdown for the liberal crowd was the Robert Mueller affair. By the end of three years of talking about the Trump campaign selling out the country for Russian assistance in the 2016 election, the results returned clearly in a four word summary of no collusion and no obstruction.
Each and every one of these efforts created a barrier between Trump and legitimate criticism. With every action by the administration declared an impending national crisis by the media, Americans are starting to tune out the clamor. Many Republicans and independents now wait several days before making a judgement on a breaking story, because the facts of such news reports are usually completely different than what was originally presented by the media. How many times do we have to hear the phrases “beginning of the end” or “the walls are closing in” or other dramatic descriptors of the demise of Trump before they lose all meaning?
What new impeachment deserving revelation about President Trump will be made known this week?
sinking to new lows
Started by GunterK - Sept. 27, 2019, 2:41 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/39894/
Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Said to Involve Trump
This is obviously the beginning of the end of the Trump presidency.
And if we don't do something about the climate, we'll all die in 12 years.
And if we continue to let the evil stinking rich plunder the masses without paying their fair share, we'll all starve to death.
The only solution to all of this is massive taxes and regulation.
If you disagree, you are a racist Nazi homophobe.
HOW DARE YOU!!!!
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-giuliani-tv-news-possible-corruption
The Biden campaign wrote to NBC News, CBS News, Fox News and CNN to voice "grave concern that you continue to book Rudy Giuliani on your air to spread false, debunked conspiracy theories on behalf of Donald Trump," according to The Daily Beast, which first reported the existence of the letter.
The memo, drafted by Biden aides Kate Bedingfield and Anita Dunn, continued: "While you often fact check his statements in real time during your discussions, that is no longer enough. By giving him your air time, you are allowing him to introduce increasingly unhinged, unfounded and desperate lies into the national conversation."
"Should a network choose to book Giuliani, the Biden campaign called for "an equivalent amount of time" to be provided "to a surrogate for the Biden campaign."
Sure, that's what the MSM always does..........give "an equivalent amount of time to both sides"
We saw that for 2.5 years when Trump was investigated for colluding with Russia and then here:
Federal records show that the intelligence community secretly revised the formal whistleblower complaint form in August 2019 to eliminate the requirement of direct, first-hand knowledge of wrongdoing.
"The internal properties of the newly revised “Disclosure of Urgent Concern” form, which the intelligence community inspector general (ICIG) requires to be submitted under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA), show that the document was uploaded on September 24, 2019, at 4:25 p.m., just days before the anti-Trump complaint was declassified and released to the public. The markings on the document state that it was revised in August 2019, but no specific date of revision is disclosed.
The complaint alleges that President Donald Trump broke the law during a phone call with the Ukrainian president. In his complaint, which was dated August 12, 2019, the complainant acknowledged he was “not a direct witness” to the wrongdoing he claims Trump committed.
A previous version of the whistleblower complaint document, which the ICIG and DNI until recently provided to potential whistleblowers, declared that any complaint must contain only first-hand knowledge of alleged wrongdoing and that complaints that provide only hearsay, rumor, or gossip would be rejected."
metmike: Either we have an extraordinary coincidence or this is evidence of yet another frame up by the intelligence community to get Trump.
They already have 2 black eyes, a bloody nose and a few missing teeth from their corrupt actions related to the Mueller investigation, having lost every encounter so far trying to take down Trump by manufacturing evidence and manipulating narratives....then being exposed(which the MSM continues to ignore).
Are they going for broke out of desperation here?
Or are they going to end up with a broken leg in this most recent encounter with trying to destroy Trump to go with their previous damage and obliterated reputation?
The nice thing for the intelligence community is that despite them being repeatedly busted for blatant corruption.........nobody wants to cover it in the MSM. In fact, the former heads of intelligence, who hate Trumps guts are frequently the guests on CNN and CNBC ranting about Trump's crimes............and they have been wrong every time.
So let's get the house impeachment of Trump show on the road!
During and after the democrats in the house impeach Trump, it will be very interesting to see how Americans respond.
Keep in mind, many people hate Trump because he is such a bully when dealing with others. The dems do best when they can portray him in that role.
What they are doing right now is setting up dynamics for him to be seen as a victim by those that have not already decided that they will hate Trump forever, no matter what.
Not very smart.
Of course Trump could use this to his advantage by keeping his mouth shut but will probably say some really dumb, inflammatory, confrontational things that make it tough for people to see him as a victim..........even when he is.
The American people should be outraged that elected politicians and our unelected intelligence community are behaving so despicably.............while the majority of them are doing nothing for the American people except making them embarrassed over it.
Whistle Blower fears for his safety
Well at least we know it is a "him"
Oops my bad
Lawyers referred to whistle Blower as their client
So: I was wrong saying the word "him"
Here's the story on that:
Trump has a long history of taking out people that he doesn't like.......yeah, he fires them if they work for him. Actually, we know the last name of the family that has that reputation (-:
“The situation in our nation’s capital is a national disgrace,” said Burkman. “Political grandstanding, partisan politics and anonymous sources have contributed to a level of toxicity we haven’t seen in decades. It’s imperative that the truth is brought to light so we can move past this disappointing time in our history.”
I am all for outing this person, especially since they were not even there for the incident.
Oh look, another strange coincidence: