Decisions decisions...

Do I vote for the guy who wants to use police action to overturn the 2nd amendment,  or do I vote for the guy that wants to punish wall street and randomly break up companies that he feels are just too big, or something,  or do I vote for the guy who wants to give everyone an allowance or do I vote for the guy who wants more illegal immigrants and to give them free healthcare or do I want to vote for the guy who wants to complete the destruction of our healthcare system or do I want to vote for the guy who is pro-business, puts American citizens first, is opposed to over-regulation and is reducing our involvement in the middle east.

Yeah,  that's a tough one.   Let me think about it for a while.

I would have bet 50% of my net worth on that response from you Tim.  And I haven't risked as much as 10% on anything since reaching the age of 30.

Being consistent and right is no reason for you to hate me

Exactly what words in my post led you to such a conclusion?

Your assumption makes sense based on people seeing Trump as working to accomplish the agenda he promised when they voted for him.

Which he has.

The question comes down to "Do you want to vote based on the largely false narrative created by the left and the MSM, or do you want to vote based on agenda and results".

"Your assumption makes sense based on people seeing Trump as working to accomplish the agenda he promised when they voted for him."

Except for the 25 broken/unfulfilled Trump promises I posted.  Remember?  The one you labeled as an "absurd" post?

ABSURD!!  This from the moderator no less.  Your bias is absurd.

From memory,  your "Broken Promise of Tax cuts" is absurd. (There were others, but without reviewing, that one leapt to the front) The vast majority of tax payers got tax cuts.  But I suppose, in the thinking of a leftist,  if people who don't pay taxes don't get a cut.....

Also, considering the obstruction and non-stop investigations/witch hunts from the left,   Trump has done surprisingly well.  Better than most, on delivering campaign promises.

That's what makes your post absurd.

why on earth would we have remorse? We knew who we voting for. He hide nothing. Ran on a platform we understood. And all the libs taught us years ago to pay no mind to a candidates personal life, right? And considering the alternative last election and this coming election there no other choice.

joj,

And my reasoning here on this topic backs up the absurdity of that pure trolling post of yours.

If you want to be a troll here, that's fine. The objective of a troll is to disrupt. That won't happen here, even though I tolerate it because I am amused at trolling and will turn it into fun 

evidence here: https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/41168/

and or expose the trolls deceit, bias  or intent...........and try to sincerely help the troll at the same time. 

I appreciate you introducing your poll. My answer is a.  I am looking forward to your further interpretation. 

You have your clear bias..........I understand that and am actually happy about that, since its the opposite of others.........and you have the capability to have intelligent discourse when you choose, which every once in a while, yields a trading post. 

My bias is to preserve the integrity of the forum while trying to keep posters close to the truth in their statements, enlightening all about the fake climate crisis and providing learning/positive/sharing threads for those interested........most of all promoting a love/exposing hate mentality.

When I respond to you, the paragraph above applies.

So why are you here joj?

You don't need to answer but I am just curious.

“So why are you here joj?”

Excellent question.   I cannot come up with a good reason.

Bye

Bye

Feel free to return anytime to express your thoughts.............which, if they contradict reality, will be challenged using authentic facts or ignored if they are intended to disrupt/upset or are absurd.

I was honestly thinking that your behavior lately was an attempt to get me to ban you, joj. However, you minimized any personal attacks and I still like you...........but it's  almost impossible for somebody to act in a manner that causes me to not like them.

I was honestly thinking that your behavior lately was an attempt to get me to ban you, joj. However, you minimized any personal attacks and I still like you...........but it's  almost impossible for somebody to act in a manner that causes me to not like them.

"It's  almost impossible for somebody to act in a manner that causes me to not like them." A ringing endorsement if ever I saw one!

I've held off on this for a few days to give it some thought...   But here are my thoughts.

MM. I disagree with JOJ on almost everything.  Like the Reagan quote, to the effect.."Our liberal friends are not stupid.  There's just so much they know that is just not so."

That, for me, sums up a lot of what liberals ,including, but not limited to JOJ,  state and believe.

That being said... On this forum,  they should have a right to state those misconceptions.  It gives the rest of us the opportunity to show them why and how they are wrong. 

Without them, the forum becomes an "Echo chamber", and that will bring it's decades long existence to a close. What's the point of having discussions with no opposing point of view? 

I think you've taken a bit too hard of a line on our liberal brethren..  I miss Carl a lot,  and I'll miss JOJ at least a little. And without something resembling an intelligent liberal point of view,  I'll miss the forum most of all, because without them, discussion will slow to a near nonexistent trickle.

Thanks Tim!

Interesting comment coming from you of all people.

I hold posters on both sides accountable Tim. Your turn again. 

In the thread below, I defend democrats who get unfairly blamed for failed policies in the big cities(by you).

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/40468/

When Obama gets bashed unfairly(by you), I defend him too....while encouraging joj to post here after he objected to a personal attack used by you on a previous thread:

                By metmike - Oct. 6, 2019, 12:12 p.m.            

joj, As I told you in a personal email, I greatly value your opinions and intelligence here. I hope that you decide to continue to share them in a positive way.

It's clear that you think that I'm biased in favor of Tim and nothing I say will change that. You accused me of giving Obama a hard time then insisted I did later.......despite me showing evidence of the opposite.

When Obama gets bashed unfairly, I defend him too.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/34963/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/38878/

If you really want to know metmike, read my post from earlier today:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/40468/

Or this one:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/34791/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/37419/

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I have made it clear that joj is welcome here, I like him and that there is no longer a limit on Trump bashing posts..........but I hold him accountable to truth and encourage him to stop being a troll.

The post below is a response to him after you used what he considered a personal attack.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/37419/

                By joj - Oct. 5, 2019, 9:58 p.m.            

"Does the moderator not notice Tim insulting posters with personal insults? 

“An objective observer” ?  Cliff is not objective...got it.. 

“Insulation that thick”?

Go ahead Tim - make it about me being too sensitive or not having a sense of humor... or some other deflection of YOUR WORDS."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                By metmike - Oct. 10, 2019, 12:04 p.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/40666/

"Please name all the POLICIES he has implemented that you have publicly been critical of on this forum because I think I missed them all."

 metmike: Let me help. This one was from 3 days ago and your post was the very next one after mine:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/40584/

                Re: Trump says ethanol deal will total 16 billion gallons            

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turkish Troops Cross Border            

                            By metmike - Oct. 7, 2019, 5:38 p.m.            

metmike: As an environmentalist, I oppose Trumps politics here to win over the farm voting block. Having numerous farmer friends, I completely understand why agriculture views this in one sided fashion and positive. If I was a producer, I would feel the same way. 

1. In case you didn't notice, the only reason that I am for Trump is because of his pro American agenda and I agree with almost all of it.

2. You accused me of bashing Obama, then insisted too and I showed you that was  made up.

3.  I am not going to take this into the realm of silly bickering that turns into personal attacks. My job as moderator is to monitor posting. I recognize blatant hatred in your posting about Trump. My sincere objective as a human being is to confront the hatred. You deny the hatred.................that's fine with me but as moderator and a human being I will address it in the best way that I know.

4. You are extremely intelligent and knowledgeable in many areas, I like you personally and you have made plenty of positive contributions in the past. I am obviously allowing you and cliff to act like trolls with Trump bashing. At least yours sometimes come with thought............along with some potent hateful, personal venum vs cliffs. They are clearly not intended for some sort of discussion. They are entirely aimed at upsetting those that you disagree with here.

So I encourage you, instead of letting your hatred for Trump take all of your attention, to going back to making more market related posts but completely understand that we are having an impeachment of the president, so I am basically not going to enforce any standards on Trump bashing, other than please don't make personal attacks on individual posters.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I also create  Trump bashing threads as an attempt to help organize and show our liberals that this is allowed here. 

joj left completely on his own accord and as mentioned, is welcome back with open arms, which is the case with all liberals.............except for:

I had to ban 3 liberals earlier this year because of constant personal attacks/name calling and when I tried to get them to adjust with numerous attempts, they refused. 2 of them continue to send me numerous hateful emails and contact moderator messages, calling me names and also they sometimes mention you too Tim. This reinforces my decision that they should not be allowed to post because communicating with hate, name calling and personal attacks is what defines them..............on the  forum and off the forum.

I also temporarily banned 2 conservatives for hate messages/racism/language,  neither havs sent these type of personal hate messages to me. One was invited back, the other can come back if he wants. 

Tim,

It would be very helpful if you provided for me some examples of where I am too hard on liberals and give me some suggestions that would create an environment that you would prefer. 

I think Tim was simply wanting a two sided debate on the forum

If everybody lines up on one side, then it is impossible to do much of anything

You have a very hard job MM keeping the forum civil

Actually I don't mind a troll so long as hateful, name calling does not get involved

No person likes to see name calling whether on this forum or any other place

But some times when a person pushes your or my button then it is hard to remain silent

I remember the NAFTA discussion on this forum when I was the only person to call Trumps silly dairy thing for what is was 

A silly negotiating tactic that got a lot of support

Actually if Canada had abolished our entire dairy system it would not have made one bit of difference to the americian dairy farmer. But that did not register with the forum, thus we had a debate

So:

For good or bad

Two sides creates debate which I think is what Tim was saying in his post

Tim can correct me if I am wrong

I couldn't agree more.

I would like to encourage liberals to post their thoughts. 

Ideally, not hate messages intended to disrupt the forum(trolling).........though that has been allowed too as long as there are no personal attacks. 

If they are hate/bashing messages or rooted in speculation or  reporting from MSM sources using manufactured news,  then the moderator will likely comment if there are actual authentic FACTS to share. 

What  actually happens when you get threads/posts like this is that they digress into childish bickering that only causes hurt feelings and a negative conversation on both ends.

This is also allowed here, as long as there are no personal attacks like the one that Tim was accused of making in the earlier thread. 

Maybe I should monitor less and let things go where they will go, similar to how it was a year ago?

I did a scientific study on the posts here during the last several months of last year into early this year.

Outside of carl and metmike, 65% of the posts were Trump bashing. By bashing, I mean pictures of Hitler and accusations of all sorts of unsubstantiated stuff............gushing with hate.....personal attacks from both sides 

No way am I going to be moderator of a forum like that.

Everything that defines my objectives in life......to make the world a better place is contrary to being part of a place that was defined by hate and bickering. 

I still have allowed hate and bickering as long as it didn't digress into personal attacks.

I have tried valiantly to get others interested in topics outside of the partisan politics which fuels hate and bickering.  Apparently we have lurkers that enjoy this stuff............and on the trading forum.

But its turning more into a blog site with metmike doing all the posting vs a forum?

Why is that?

Because metmike is the only one that introduces positive threads. I am not giving up because it's an opportunity to share alot of really good/authentic things in a positive way. However, I am realistic. If my mission is for this to be a forum with active posters.............then something will need to change.

I could let vandenplas loose again and posting would go way up. vandenplas is a predator and very mean. If you read his many dozens of hateful messages to me(mojo too= I am known as trumptard), you would understand.

Let me put it this way, if vandenplas had to be here and I couldn't stop it, I would resign immediately. He will read this post and likely send me some sort of mean, name calling message

One thing that I will always be grateful for being moderator the past 18 months is the incredible amount that I've learned.  Especially about politics and climate change. I would not have had to do the extra hundreds of hours of research and studying on either if I was not posting or writing articles, responding to others with what I know to be the truth based on solid facts.

Learned alot about history and all sort of other topics. Also made a few friends and interacted with some very interesting people, most of them good people . ......also was surprised to apparently lose a couple of good friends because I don’t hate trump. This was part of the learning for me. I am still hoping they will overlook the politics and see the friendship. My door is always open.

So I'm glad that Tim brought this up. It helps for me to do some reflecting on posting dynamics at this time. I do spend a lot of hours every day here and it is true that we have been unable to maintain our liberal base and part of this is the result of what I believe to be my personal ethical and otherwise standards. 

The bottom line for me is going to be deciding if MarketForum is helping others or making a positive contribution in others lives.  I can do alot of other things that I know will do that with certainty.

Also, I can’t see a better place for me as an atmospheric scientist to share the truth about our current climate optimum and expose the fake climate crisis and the gatekeepers of manufactured realities used to mislead us.....this means everything to me.

In this thread,  I agree with, and support most of your comments,with the exception of you questioning why JOJ was here. Perhaps I misread, but that struck me as confrontational, particularly from a moderator.

Note:  I don't think there's room on the forum for the likes of Vandy and MOJO.

Also, I agree that persona attacks don't belong here and that's a line that I tread very thinly at times.  A personal flaw of mine that I try to contain.

As Wayne said,  you have a tough job, one that I would not want. I don't have the patience or time for it and my apptitude  lies in other areas. :-)

Thanks Tim,

It's good when you can identify something like this so it can be addressed.

I agree that asking him why he is here came off as confrontational.

This is the reason that I did it. 

joj had a history of posting a certain way that included numerous trading posts, along with his strong opinions on Trump. It suddenly changed after the Trump announced that we were withdrawing the troops in Syria and a heated confrontation with you.

Starting on October 4, after he was upset by one of your posts and I showed that he had changed his position on Trump in the Middle East, just after that  he went on a binge of  Trump bashing posts and starting Trump new bashing threads that were the same subject but instead of following protocol (as I had asked of him in the past) and putting them in the same thread, he was trying to start as many anti Trump threads as possible.

After averaging  less than 1 post/day all year and many of them trading posts, starting October 4 and until this last post 2 weeks later, he made 49 posts, more than quadrupling his previous posting rate.

This would be wonderful.......except they were almost all trolling, Trump bashing posts featuring his rage/hatred for Trump, using name calling in many of them.......with almost no trading posts.

This would be ok if was for a few days and his anger calmed down but it turned relentless and after 2 weeks, I chose to question why he was here because his behavior  made it clear to me that it had changed and had become just like mojo on steroids.

This is why I stated that I thought that he was trying to get me to ban/suspend him.

Instead, of suspending him, I actually loosened up the rules and show the statement below, allowing all Trump bashing as long as there were no personal attacks on fellow posters because I like joj and wanted him to stay here..........after he calmed down.

This is the thread and my post showing his contradiction that I believe set him off, which was right after his confrontation with you over your “Insulation that thick” comment:

                Trump Betrays Kurdish Allies            

                            Started by joj - Oct. 7, 2019, 11:20 a.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/40542/

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      By metmike - Oct. 10, 2019, 12:04 p.m.            

This is where I loosened up the rules for him:

metmike: 4. You are extremely intelligent and knowledgeable in many areas, I like you personally and you have made plenty of positive contributions in the past. I am obviously allowing you and cliff to act like trolls with Trump bashing. At least yours sometimes come with thought............along with some potent hateful, personal venum vs cliffs. They are clearly not intended for some sort of discussion. They are entirely aimed at upsetting those that you disagree with here.

So I encourage you, instead of letting your hatred for Trump take all of your attention, to going back to making more market related posts but completely understand that we are having an impeachment of the president, so I am basically not going to enforce any standards on Trump bashing, other than please don't make personal attacks on individual posters.

Again, joj is welcome back here any time. Unlike mojo who never contributed anything and was obviously here to express his intense hatred for Trump and upset Trump supporters, joj has a history of providing positive contributions that made this a better place in my opinion...........and it always had his strong opinions that were often Trump bashes, that were part of the overall package.

However, as moderator, I tried to manage his going way overboard and becoming a different joj as best that I could to preserve the integrity of MarketForum while being patient with his unacceptable outburst. 

I am happy to receive comments suggesting how others think it should have been managed. 

Back to topic.

d. John Kasich

Thanks cliff!

did Not vote for trump last time.

will Not vote for trump next time.

i usually vote libertarian.   dems want to bankrupt us will social spending. and the pubs will bankrupt us with military spending.  bankrupt is bankrupt,  no matter what you spent it on.  

i support the idea of cutting taxes.  but they first should have cut spending.  dems and pubs will never cut spending.