State of the Union Addresss
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Started by metmike - Feb. 4, 2020, 10:52 p.m.

Impressive speech.

Not everybody was there that should have been:

AOC Boycotts SOTU to Avoid Normalizing ‘Trump’s Lawless Conduct’

            Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez                    @AOC         


"After much deliberation, I have decided that I will not use my presence at a state ceremony to normalize Trump’s lawless conduct & subversion of the Constitution.

None of this is normal, and I will not legitimize it.

Consequently, I will not be attending the State of the Union."

"Ocasio-Cortez joins at least six other House Democrats in boycotting Trump’s speech, as Representatives Al Green (Texas), Steve Cohen (Tenn.), Earl Blumenauer (Ore.), Ayanna Pressley (Mass.), Hank Johnson (Ga.), and Frederica Wilson (Fla.) have all said publicly they would not attend."

“Because of an impeached, reckless, ruthless, lawless, shameless, corrupt, & unapologetically bigoted president – who is still engaging in a coverup, the state of the House, the state of the Senate, and the #StateOfTheUnion are divided,” Green tweeted. “I will NOT attend #SOTU2020.”

At least six Democrats did not attend Trump’s State of the Union last year, after 14 skipped the 2018 address."

metmike: The president rattling off his dozens of accomplishments, with republicans doing standing ovations was obviously torture for democrats. 

By WxFollower - Feb. 4, 2020, 11:17 p.m.
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Highly partisan. Not a state of the union but state of the red nation. Didn’t like it because very partisan. His snubbing of Pelosi in not shaking her hand was childish and uncalled for. That caused her to act childish, herself, as she was totally pissed off the entire speech.

By TimNew - Feb. 5, 2020, 6:10 a.m.
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He didn't shake hands with Pence either.   He handed something to Pence, handed something to Pelosi and then turned back to the crowd, after which Pelosi extended her hand.  Then Pelosi shredded the speech.  And for this you blame Trump? 

The speech was a typical cheerleading session where Trump, as all president before him,  touted his accomplishments.   He wisely avoided the impeachment and stuck with the state of the union.

By mcfarm - Feb. 5, 2020, 9:43 a.m.
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"partisan and red you say weather? seems you forgot the other MSM word of the night, 'DARK'.   Seems to me the President hit the accomplishments and you were expecting???? what exactly? Dang and he never used the word I about a thousand times either.

By metmike - Feb. 5, 2020, 11:13 a.m.
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Pelosi extended her hand to Trump. He didn't take it.


Time to BUST this misleading(fake news) with video facts.

The video clip from the source below does it with clarity.  The view is from behind Pelosi and Pence, instead of behind Trump, where we can't see his eyes.

What you need to do is advance the video, frame by frame, starting at 5 seconds. When he hands the speech to Pelosi, for a few frames, he is looking in her direction........BEFORE she extended her right hand.  However, while still having Pelosi's speech in his right hand(just before letting go of it) the last couple of frames show that his eyes, clearly have shifted to looking in Mike Pences direction(away from Pelosi). He is in the process of turning around to face the audience and his body, at that point is getting close to being perpendicular to Pelosi(facing away from her).

It's at that point that Pelosi extends her hand..............when Trump has already made the turn of his body and turn of his gaze away from that direction.

I'm sure he was not anticipating a handshake with Pelosi and just wanted a clean hand off of the speech and in fact, also did not anticipate a handshake with Pence and they did not shake hands.

Pence did not offer a handshake so they probably decided before hand to not do handshakes since it could turn awkward if there was no handshake offered by Pelosi. Regardless, he was not expecting it and had already turned away quickly (body and where his eyes were looking) BEFORE Pelosi extended her hand. 

State of the union: Trump does not shake Pelosi's hand

By metmike - Feb. 5, 2020, 11:26 a.m.
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I agree with Larry that this was extremely partisan.

Here is some video from  the 2019 State of the Union, which shows he and Pelosi getting along(handshakes with both Pence and Pelosi) and her applauding him...............and not tearing up his speech.

The State of the Union, by the Numbers

I wonder what could have changed in the past year?  Trump has not been acting much different than he did the previous 2 years.

Oh, maybe the fact that almost every democrat has been trying to remove him from office with an actual impeachment taking place based entirely on a party line PARTISAN vote, with 0 republicans voting for it.

And him obviously needing to defend his actions against impeachment(to stay in office) and defend his accomplishments to the American people. 

An appeal to the democrats for unity and bipartisanship that was appropriate last year would have been a disingenuous joke and made him look like a naive fool or fake here in 2020. How could that work after knowing with 100% certainty that the democrats have ALREADY DECIDED to get rid of him. 

So the better choice was to play up to his strongpoints and to those that he knew would applaud him because they actually support him vs wanting to destroy him.

The environment for this setting was already set because of the impeachment proceedings . 

By WxFollower - Feb. 5, 2020, 1:11 p.m.
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 Trump snubbing Pelosi wasn't fake news at all. I say it was a plan because he's a total jackass and I'm sticking to it. I don't expect to change your mind as I think you're in the closed mindset of nearly all of the media is out to get him with fake news.

 It is tradition to shake the hands of both. 




By mcfarm - Feb. 5, 2020, 1:27 p.m.
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look, more red totally partisan, dark news. this probably should of never  been reported either

By metmike - Feb. 5, 2020, 1:52 p.m.
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"I say it was a plan because he's a total jackass and I'm sticking to it. I don't expect to change your mind as I think you're in the closed mindset of nearly all of the media is out to get him with fake news."

Hi Larry,

Do you actually read and look at my stuff or do you just make assumptions based on thinking that I must be closed minded to have that opinion?

Please go back and review the clearly stated items below that contradict your accusation of me.

1. It's not just my OPINION that he did not see her hand extended. The only purpose of my post was to PROVE to you with the video that indisputably shows that  he had already turned away and his eyes had also turned away from looking towards her BEFORE she extended the hand. The video shows that he never saw the handshake. 

Please read my instructions and view the 2nd video frame by frame. 

2. I also stated that since Pence did not extend his hand, that they had decided before hand that there would be not either of them. My quote: "Pence did not offer a handshake so they probably decided before hand to not do handshakes". You can assume that its because he's a total jackass(which I have always agreed with you about) but it also could have been for the very good reason of avoiding the potential of Pelosi not offering a handshake and Pence shaking hands with him.  Regardless, why disagree with me when making the same point as me?

3. It's great that you are showing previous events from the last 3 years as evidence. Did you not bother to look at my link showing the exact same thing and making the exact same point that you are on that element, that you seem to be disagreeing with me on? My quote: 

"I agree with Larry that this was extremely partisan.

Here is some video from  the 2019 State of the Union, which shows he and Pelosi getting along(handshakes with both Pence and Pelosi) and her applauding him...............and not tearing up his speech."

Again, why disagree with me by making the same point(s) as me and characterize my points as being from a closed mindset?

4. Not dialing in the affects of the last 4 months of the most partisan politics in our country's history, 100% aimed at obliterating and removing President Trump from office..........the entire focus of the me seems to be the closed mindset.

BTW, the 2019 video shows he and Pelosi getting along. 2017/18 shows a republican sitting in her chair and them getting along.............but either way, there was no problem between him and Pelosi in 2019 and I will assume that you believe he was a jackass then too. 

So what changed between 2019 and 2020 Larry?

By GunterK - Feb. 5, 2020, 2:26 p.m.
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Hi metmike, thanks for your second-by-second analysis of the incident in question. Before I read your post, I had looked at the video clip twice, and it was quite clear to me that Trump was already in motion...he was turning away from Pelosi, when she offered her hand. I assume, he didn't even see her hand.

Again, the MSM is trying to blow something out of proportion, or even create something non-existent, to make Trump look bad.

On the other hand... had Trump seen her hand, should he really have taken her hand??? after all, the impeachment trial is still going on... this is the woman who is trying to destroy him.

The SOTU was nothing unusual... as all presidents do, it was a summary of all the good things that have happened during the recent past.

A defining moment of the 2020 SOTU was Pelosi tearing up her copy of this speech. There was nothing bad in the printed version, .. not much she could object too.... therefore, her act of tearing up the paper shows nothing but hatred... a hatred that has permeated her party since 2016.... and this act was also a promise that the dirty fight will go on.

By GunterK - Feb. 5, 2020, 2:28 p.m.
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By metmike - Feb. 5, 2020, 2:55 p.m.
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The focus by the MSM on the president not shaking a hand that he never.....whether he had decided not to shake her hand AND not shake Pence's hand before hand or not and not going after Pelosi harder for behavior that makes Trump look like a nice guy shows the blatant bias.

Nancy Pelosi should resign


The House has its share of infamies, great and small, real and symbolic, and has been the scene of personal infamies from brawls to canings. But the conduct of Speaker Nancy Pelosi at the State of the Union address this week will go down as a day of infamy for the chamber as an institution. It has long been a tradition for House speakers to remain stoic and neutral in listening to the address. However, Pelosi seemed to be intent on mocking President Trump from behind his back with sophomoric facial grimaces and head shaking, culminating in her ripping up a copy of his address.

Her drop the mic moment will have a lasting impact on the House. While many will celebrate her trolling of the president, she tore up something far more important than a speech. Pelosi has shredded decades of tradition, decorum, and civility that the nation could use now more than ever. The House speaker is more than a political partisan, particularly when carrying out functions such as the State of the Union address. A president appears in the House as a guest of both chambers of Congress. The House speaker represents not her party or herself but the entirety of the chamber. At that moment, she must transcend her own political ambitions and loyalties.

What followed was an utter disgrace. First, Pelosi dropped the traditional greeting before the start of the address, “Members of Congress, I have the high privilege and distinct honor of presenting to you the president of the United States.” Instead, she simply announced, “Members of Congress, the president of the United States.” It was extremely petty and profoundly inappropriate. Putting aside the fact that this is not her tradition, but that of the House, it is no excuse to note that the president was impeached.

Such an indignity was not imposed on President Clinton during his own impeachment proceeding, and anyone respecting due process would note that Trump has been accused, not convicted, at this point in the constitutional process. Pelosi proceeded to repeatedly shake her head, mouth words to others, and visibly disagree with the address. It was like some distempered distracting performance art behind the president."

metmike: Funny thing is that my wife is the most passive, non confrontational, non violent person that I know.  During the address, she was getting riled up at Pelosi's behavior and said "Don't you just want to slap her!" at least half a dozen times.

Many tens of millions of other Americans watched the same thing.

I told Deb that maybe what Pelosi was doing was praying for him  (-:

By WxFollower - Feb. 5, 2020, 4:28 p.m.
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 I’m taking another hiatus. Trump’s classless behavior constantly infuriates the hell out of me and yet all I see on here are pro Trump folks defending him via deflection by attacking most non-Fox News media outlets as putting out fake news. In addition, folks like Schiff, Biden, and Pelosi, who are far from perfect, are criticized time and time again to again divert criticism away from Trump. This forum doesn’t have enough folks on the other side. I think some of them like Carl stopped posting out of similar frustration. 

 Trump is a lowlife classless jackass.


By mcfarm - Feb. 5, 2020, 5:49 p.m.
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right u=you are Larry.....NOT FOR A SECOND...I am proud of most everyone left here who present facts. MM and Tim are the best by far yet you fail to open your eyes. Fine be contrary if that's your thing but don't make stuff up on your way out of the door.

One a side you may of filed to notice the time Tip O'Neil spit on the STOTU when RR was President...guess we should just over look that as class?

By metmike - Feb. 5, 2020, 8:22 p.m.
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 "Trump’s classless behavior constantly infuriates the hell out of me and yet all I see on here are pro Trump folks defending him via deflection by attacking most non-Fox News media outlets as putting out fake news. In addition, folks like Schiff, Biden, and Pelosi, who are far from perfect, are criticized time and time again to again divert criticism away from Trump. This forum doesn’t have enough folks on the other side. This forum doesn’t have enough folks on the otherde. I think some of them like Carl stopped posting out of similar frustration. 

 Trump is a lowlife classless jackass."

Hi Larry,

I agree with this statement.

"This forum doesn’t have enough folks on the other side."

We had a few good posters but they leave/left with statements like this:

"I’m taking another hiatus"

The circumstances, each time.....100% of them,  were similar to this one with you. I would make points and be challenged(even called a liar several times by one). In this case I was called closed minded. 

Then  I would provide the irrefutable evidence to prove my statements, sometimes with links like the ones that I showed here. The video of Trump from the front side. The review of the 2019 State of the Union address from the NYT's for instance as well as my exact quotes to contrast with how you (mis)characterized my statements(I agreed with half of what you said and you tried to make it look otherwise-so I showed that).

In every case, instead of unemotionally and objectively looking at those facts, the other side quits and leaves and claims things like I am using Schiff, Biden and Pelosi to divert criticism of Trump. 

I am a scientist and as you  see in all my work, including political stuff, I state facts and base  almost everything here from me on links that prove it...........the authentic truth. 

I'm not perfect.  If you disagree with any of the facts then please show it.  In the absence of being able to contradict my facts, everybody on the other side just leaves...........and blames me for being closed minded............and their solution to their not being enough folks on the other side is to depart, making for 1 less person on the other side.

I uphold ethical, scientific, objective and professional standards when I post here and do it in the absence of emotion or hate. 

On statements that I made about Pelosi, Schiff and Biden I showed the actual facts with links every time. You accuse me of doing this to divert criticism from Trump.  I am not doing what you accuse me of but the facts are the facts. If you dispute 1 iota of what I have stated about those 3, then why not point it out? You are an intelligent guy Larry. Rather than make accusations and characterize me why are you not showing any authentic facts to dispute anything I have ever said?

Strange how one side's response to that has been to quit............while i have encouraged them to stay and unemotionally state their side with legit facts or at least explain why they bashed me with wrong facts. 

There were  3 predators/trolls here until early last year, that actually had to be kicked out for using foul language, making very offensive personal attacks, calling me names and being defiant when I repeatedly, nicely requested that they eliminate specific unacceptable behavior. 


I am very sorry to see you leave again. You are always welcome to post here as are others with your point of view and don't have to come to the NTR forum if it frustrates you that much. 

Just a personal observation/opinion.  I have sadly been observing the affects of how hating Donald Trump affects people. Many of them won't even acknlowedge they hate him and all of them blame Donald Trump for causing them to hate Donald Trump. Hate is the most destructive emotion of all. This thread is the quintessential example of it.   If not for this(and other discussions) being about Donald Trump, Larry at the forum would be a happy camper. 

If a discussion on Donald Trump comes up, those that hate him cannot stand it if facts to defend him come out. Instead of thinking objectively and unemotionally like we do normally, hate causes us to act "blinded by hate".

They are willing to discard long lived friendships(like ours). They are willing to penalize themselves(hate only hurts ourselves) and want to penalize others (friends/family) because of their hate.

I have witnessed it here but also in public and with family.  When the topic of Donald Trump comes up, one side in particular sees and interprets everything thru a blood red tunnel that has only one side.............their side. 

By metmike - Feb. 5, 2020, 8:35 p.m.
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 The only reason that I'm here is to try to make the world a better place while shedding light on authentic truths and science and in politics when facts are at stake. 

In a world dominated by fake news/propaganda and people wanting to believe just news that confirms what they think they know or what the gatekeepers want them to think..............all of it very convincing sounding/reading, this place affords the opportunity to show facts using graphs, data, pictures and links that very few places have. 

If you really want to know metmike, read this post:

Or these ones:

I am not here to promote hate, lies and mischaracterizations or personal attacks, I am here to call it/them out. 

There was plenty of hate for President Obama too(nothing close to this scale though) and that gets called out here too when it pops up:

I was hoping that more intelligent people like you(that represent your views) would assist me here but the hate for Donald Trump controls their thoughts and they have little tolerance for others views that don't agree with them. 

  I encourage you to be part of something positive. If not here, then apply your talents because you are loaded with them and so blessed, like we all are.  We have so many wonderful things and should share them with the rest of the world. It's a shame to waste so much, focusing on negatives and letting hate destroy America.............hate for President Trump.

By metmike - Feb. 5, 2020, 9:28 p.m.
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"His snubbing of Pelosi in not shaking her hand was childish and uncalled for. That caused her to act childish, herself, as she was totally pissed off the entire speech."

I had ignored this statement before but if you seriously think that him not shaking her hand resulted in her completely unacceptable and offensive behavior during the entire speech, then tearing up the speech in front of the cameras........ was Trumps fault, then this is another example of blaming President Trump for everything that happens around him.

His behavior justified being spied on. Having a bogus investigation that would have been unacceptable to do on any other ok because its Donald Trump. All the other spinning of most stories and news featuring him to be negative. Impeachment............because its Trump. Even though Obama's infractions with Iran and Benghazi were far, far worse than anything Trump ever did...........he deserves impeachment. 

He deserves all of it because he is a "lowlife, classless jackass" and anybody that opposes him is ALWAYS right and the ends(even violating basic rights and lying) is ok because the ends justifies the means when it comes to this guy. 

Sorry but Nancy Pelosi is responsible for Nancy Pelosi's behavior.............period. Not President Trump. 

By WxFollower - Feb. 5, 2020, 11:35 p.m.
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Thanks, Mike,

 I have never been as emotionally affected by any politician in a negative way. I get so stressed out by him and have admittedly vented here. I still stand by my comments. By the way, I did say Pelosi was childish, too. I just don’t think Trump should be looked on relatively favorable vs Pelosi here. I’d bet very heavily that Trump planned in advance to not shake her hand. He knows that it is tradition to extend his hand to both of them. 

 Trump is a bully. In my entire life, I’ve always passionately hated bullying and childishness/immaturity/being low class. I can’t get by this and Trump will never change barring a miracle.

 I didn’t like Obama at all. I’m not a Dem. I’m a right of center independent who has voted mainly GOP. Reagan is easily my alltime favorite POTUS. In contrast, Trump is an embarrassment.

By GunterK - Feb. 6, 2020, 12:29 a.m.
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Hi WxFollower,

You are quite right…. a large portion of this forum’s contributors are ‘conservatives”… and some of them like Trump so much that they can’t see Trump doing anything wrong.

But don’t put metmike, the forum’s moderator, into this group. He has made it quite clear that he doesn’t care much for Trump, the person, but that he gives Trump credit when credit is due.

Furthermore, metmike is a stickler for “facts”…whenever he makes an argument for something, it is always backed by facts. When he is confronted by something he doesn’t know, he says so and does some research until he can formulate an opinion backed by facts.

A classical example are his commentaries on the hyped up “climate emergency”… while the climate alarmists rely on computer simulations (which depend on having the correct data input, which they don’t have), he always backs his climate commentaries with numerous facts and charts.

Same with his political opinions.

For the last 3 years, the MSM (yes, that ugly group of propaganda outlets) has been inundating the public with daily “breaking news”… “tipping points”, “the beginning of the end”, “the end of his presidency”… while all the time they had absolutely nothing. Is it then surprising that a good portion of the People consider the MSM “fake news”.

And just a few weeks ago… we have a former vice-president, who openly bragged about doing a successful quid-pro-quo in the Urkaine, and then the Democratic Party, and their allies, the MSM, take the spot light from the person who did wrong, and blame the president for the same wrong-doing, even though the president did not do it…. all this eventually led to an impeachment trial, while at the same time, the MSM states that there is no evidence the former vice president did what he did.

Today’s example of the Pelosi hand-shake snub is just another example of how the MSM twists the facts around and creates its own “news”. Fortunately we have a person like metmike, who went through the trouble of analyzing the video clip, second by second, to find out that Trump turned away, before Pelosi extended her hand. It was not a “snub”

WxFollower, don’t get me wrong… I respect your opinion as a democrat…and I respect your opinion, regarding our president.. with many of your critical comments, you are quite correct. I just want you to know...I  am not one of the “deplorables”. For several decades I have favored the Dem Party and their presidents. For me, the turning point came in 2016. What has happened since then, is just too much for me.

sorry for the long post

By metmike - Feb. 6, 2020, 12:46 a.m.
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I'm happy to see that you are honest about your feelings. I agree with you 100% on him being a bully/mean and have already stated dozens of times what all of his major character flaws are here. I wish like anything that anybody else had his agenda and was president............anybody. 

I can't stand to listen to much of Trumps rallys because it does bother me to listen to how mean he is. His  lies/embellishing bothers me a great deal too as I have also stated many times here. 

Despite all of this, I CAN get past it because, I have long ago eliminated my ability to hate somebody and I can separate his policies from his personality.............sort of like, if Albert Einstein was the worlds biggest arse, would we refuse to acknowledge his law of relativity? Trumps realities are based on authentic truths that are good for America and he is the closest on climate change than anyone, even though I doubt he really understands climate.

He does understand the realities of energy, the economy,  border security, TRADE and other key issues and thats who I want to be our president vs somebody that has it all wrong but is a sweet talker that I would love for a friend but not as our president. I am PRO life, also based on the scientific definition of life.....

I am also realistic, not only about who he is but about his chances to be elected again. Not based on what I would like or my feelings but based on objective facts. 

However, I may be proven wrong on that because the democrats have shot themselves in the foot with the impeachment proceedings. It has clearly backfired and you can blame Adam Schiff more than anyone because of his lies/corruption. What I have showed here about Schiff is nothing but facts and Americans that don't hate Trump have seen those same facts. 

This is not me covering for Trump's flaws/lies because it is causing me to possibly be wrong about my long lived prediction that Trump would NOT be elected again.

Trump Job Approval at Personal Best 49%

Line graph. President Trump’s job approval is at a new high of 49%.

The new poll finds 50% of Americans disapproving of Trump, leaving just 1% expressing no opinion. The average percentage not having an opinion on Trump has been 5% throughout his presidency.

metmike: What the impeachment hearings have done is cause most of the people with no opinion on Trump to shift to approving of him. 

I know that you don't like seeing this because you dislike him so much but it's a rock solid fact that must be told and viewed in context to the impeachment environment the last 4 months. 

In light of these new numbers I will have to increase the chances of President Trump getting elected again in November to something like 45% vs before, I was thinking something like 25%. 

With the dynamics in the electoral college working in his favor, he can have less than 50% approval and still get elected. If those 49% of those that approve of him actually vote for him, that might do it. 

The increase in approval came from Republicans and Independents who must have been turned off by the dishonesty or reasons to impeach (obviously something).

Democrats, we assume in their opinion of him,  vary from disapproving of  him to strongly hating him and people like that are going to approve of matter how they get him impeached!

By metmike - Feb. 6, 2020, 2:21 a.m.
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Hi Gunter, 

Thank you so much for seeing this in me and expressing it here. That means alot coming from you.

Another thought on Nancy Pelosi's act last night.

Why in the world would she intentionally be that way in  front of  many millions of people that she wanted them to see her that way?

When Trump acts that way, we know that he just can't control himself........but it causes most people to dislike him except his base, which he is appealing too.

Maybe that was Pelosi's deal. Appealing to her base in using manerisms and gestures that spoke volumes about what was going on in her head..........rejecting of President Trumps messages.....then, insanely ripping up the script defiantly. 

Let's not look at it from the standpoint of whether this was right/wrong or good/bad on anything except how this would help her to discredit this president, her top objective.

We know that Trumps ratings have increased because of the their highest ever. Why is that? Its all from independants and republicans that were obviously on the fence before. To me, it would seem that the meanest, bully president in history that only gets sympathy from his loyal flock because mean guys always deserve what they get...........has actually been getting new sympathy from those that were not part of his adoring flock and of course don't hate him so much that they will never approve.

The amount of unfairness and partisanship attacking Trump relenlessly, the low handed tactics and lies actually out corrupted  the accusations of Trumps corruption and caused people to sympthize with Trump, like you do with an underdog or somebody that you think is getting a raw deal. It makes you want to root for them.

Pelosi was sort of doing the same thing last night. It's Trumps state of the union address and everyone is supposed to act respectful, whether you hate him or not, at least don't go overboard being disrespectful which she did in a massive display because we could see her during almost the entire speech(which she knew).

Trump haters were applauding at home for her and they hated him just as much after as they did before. All others, including independents and republicans on the fence were getting a wake up call about this lady(if they didn't know her before).

Her actions were  counterproductive to the overall cause(except to play to her Trump haters) and turned off many more people than it turned on.

Who watched her tear up her copy of the script and thought "yeah, that convinced me that I'm not voting for Trump now!!!

Many more were thinking "Wow, did she really just do that to the script of President Trump? Something is really wrong with her that might even be  worse than what's wrong with loose cannon Donald!"

By kermit - Feb. 7, 2020, 6:24 a.m.
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There is a video were it appears she "pre ripped"the paper.

The paper appears to be legal size, not office size

Was this another paper delivery like the one at the Bush funeral?

By kermit - Feb. 7, 2020, 6:43 a.m.
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By TimNew - Feb. 8, 2020, 8:48 a.m.
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We live in a world where a segment of our population hates Trump. I get that.  He's a hateable guy. There are some who know him that appear to think he's a great guy in person and hold him in high esteem.  There are even stories of him doing very admirable things, apparently  for no other reason than he's a good guy.   Be that as it may,  he does not project that image from the podium..  So I get the hate.

But we also have people who hate anyone who points out Trump's accomplishments as president, and an objective observer could list many.  They can't even bear to associate with anyone making an argument in favor of anything Trump has done.

That I can't "get". 

By metmike - Feb. 9, 2020, 1:35 p.m.
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John King from CNN is THE best in using data to analyze voting dynamics. 

THE best in this case has him in a completely different elite league of his own.

During the 2016 presidential election, I mostly watched CNN...........entirely because of him. He is faster with his updates, easier to understand and with his often profound analysis and  explanations, most accurate. But the amount of  key data that he provides is mind boggling. 

I will be watching him this November.

Today, he did a presentation about Trumps chances this November that was another example of how he can apply relevant data to tell us important things in determining the outcome of the election.

John King: Trump enjoying a significant uptick in his political standing

So what changed the past few months that has put President Trump back in the race?

Yep. Just what you're thinking.

By metmike - Feb. 9, 2020, 1:55 p.m.
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Trump had his best week ever, Maher says

Senior adviser to President Trump Jared Kushner discusses the President's reelection campaign with CNN's Fareed Zakaria.#CNN #News

No, this is not pro Trump or defend Trump posting. Facts are facts......and these last 3 sources are from CNN..........the anti Trump station, which is acknowledging the realities of negative  impacts  because of the impeachment process disaster for their side. 

The democrats/MSM, especially the never Trumpers have all been looking at the impeachment hearings with one sided, cognitive bias............cheerleaders.

It finally came to an end last week and we can analyze the affects objectively and with less emotionalism...........outside of partisan politics and wishful/hopeful thinking.

It's crystal clear that the democrats have shot themselves in the foot with their partisan and unethical behavior attacking and trying to obliterate the president.............again.

Non "Never Trumpers" who were on the fence, are getting more turned off by this, than they were/are by the offensive character flaws that define President Trump. 

If you want my honest opinion on President Trump, the person,  based on his speech after being indicted, go here:

By metmike - Feb. 9, 2020, 2:41 p.m.
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My advise previous to democrats on beating Trump has been totally ignored:

The democrats have the inferior agenda in almost every, border security, trade, economy/jobs. They can use the made up climate crisis because so many people are  brainwashed to believe it(we are having a climate optimum and best weather/climate on this greening planet in the last 1,000 years-last time that it was this warm)

The one realm, that they "could" dominate with(some of the candidates are doing good by discussing it) is with showing their party/people have more character and honor. They take the high ground.........based on ACTIONS, not disingenuous words that we know are not true based on actions.

Instead, they do the opposite........are even lower than Trump. Schiff gets caught blatantly  lying numerous times(and even denies it after being busted) with the most partisan of partisan impeachment hearings.  

Pelosi rips up Donald Trumps State of the Union speech in front of the camera's.

They abuse their congressional power to further their agenda to destroy Trump vs doing the job that Americans elected them to do(which is what Trump is doing) trying to affect the result of the 2020 election...........which is what they accused Trump of doing. 

It's too late now to take the high road and use it to show the superiority of Democratic ethics and a reason to vote their person in. Their actions have been to take the lowest road possible because they thought it was the road to destroying Donal Trump. 

It backfired and now..................what do they have to attract people on the fence back over to their side??? Their ethics and tactics are worse than Trumps. 

Individual candidates can still do this because some people will vote for the candidate and not the party.

However, I think Joe Bidens credibility is shot. He WAS very corrupt based on impossible to explain situations while he was VP and his lying about it. 

Funny thing is that the dems threw him under the bus to get Trump with impeachment.

Who knew much about the Bidens, in the Ukraine(other suspicious things happened in China and Iran that featured his family being enriched because of Joe being VP) before the impeachment proceedings?

Trump did not get an investigation by the US or the Ukraine.

It became the FOCUS for the impeachment. It caused people to look at the Biden situation in the Ukraine. Most people that are never Trumpers, who are now looking, see that Joe Biden was corrupt. 

Most of those same people would have never known much about it and certainly not as much. The more that you learn about the Bidens, the worse it looks. So not knowing anything was in the best interest of Joe.

The democrats caused us to look at it. 


But here's the thing. Joe Bidens corruption can be overlooked if voters thought he had a superior agenda and for sure because he is much more likeable than Trump and Clinton. 

He loses badly on the agenda, so he must win on the integrity/honesty in order for the likeability and credibility to work.

Since we know that he lacks integrity/honesty and is corrupt........he can no longer use that realm to promote himself as superior to Trump. 

So, what we have is a very likeable guy, with horrible(wreck America) agenda that is also corrupt and dishonest. 

I think that Pete Buttigieg is going to be the best choice to run against Trump.........certainly the best chance to defeat him.

Bernie is an experienced, capable debator that sounds convincing and sincere but is probably too extreme to convince moderates that socialism is the way when the past 3 years of capitalism on steroids under Trump, has never provided more powerful evidence that his plan is a bad one. 

I'll still give Mayor Pete slightly better odds than Trump in winning but maybe the democrats will keep doing dumb, unethical things to help President Trump get elected again. 

By metmike - Feb. 9, 2020, 9:15 p.m.
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You make THE most important point of all.

If you are truly trying to access Trumps performance as president using basic standards in an objective way, you can't see everything that he ever does as bad or wrong.......and  ignore the crystal clear evidence of the benefits to America  because of his agenda. 

He is accused of acting in his own self serving interest and not of America. Anybody that states that is blind.

Who do you think that he had in mind when he renegotiated our trades deals to better terms with our trading partners........Mexico/Canada?  Who's interest was it he had in mind with China? How about the southern border. What about his energy policies? Climate change? The economy? 

The list is long and its extraordinarily convincing in his favor. 

A typical explanation, like that of Biden is that the policies of Obama/Biden are what is causing the great economy(and now he is wrecking it).

I agree with you Tim, this is delusional and not acknowledging realities.

Love is blind. It causes you to overlook flaws in the person that you love. This can sometimes be a very good in a marriage. 

Hate is also blind and causes you to only see bad things and want bad things for the person that you hate. It's also the most destructive the person that feels hate in their heart.  It is almost never a good thing under any circumstances. The hater, not only makes the world a worse place by spreading their hateful thoughts(increasing the hate in others) but they erode their personal integrity, as they are willing to do and feel things that would be off limits to their usual high standards in order to accommodate what the hate compels them to think and do.

By TimNew - Feb. 10, 2020, 8:08 a.m.
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There's an old saying.  Someone you love can dump a bowl of soup in your lap and you can both laugh about it.  Someone you hate can drive you to distraction in the way they hold their spoon.

By metmike - Feb. 10, 2020, 10:21 a.m.
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Cool saying Tim!

The story below will be well received by the majority conservatives here but I post it only to show how the dems are messing up..........again, in many ways with their desperation battle plan to obliterate Trump. 

There is still alot of time and this will be close. Trump could do something really dumb just before the election. Considering the field of dems right now, I'm thinking that Hillary Clinton entering the race might be a good idea.

I think the negatives from her corruption/honestly scandals will no longer be fresh in peoples minds or her mediocre performance in office. She will be private citizen H. Clinton coming out of retirement to avenge her unfair loss(when she won the popular vote), lost because of Russia's interference(yes, many people actually believe that) and the last minute announcement by Comey to reopen the email investigation(some feel this did it to her).

Regardless, the story line for Hillary coming back........never giving up and becoming the first woman president( Don't underestimate that appeal) and the circumstances can be portrayed into something extraordinarily powerful, especially with the MSM backing and telling the story with gusto. 

Hillary still has the lack of likeability that gets most presidents elected but she would only have to act likeable for several months and not do anything dumb, like call Trump supporters deplorable. Here's the thing on likeability. The more you have it, the longer the period that people get to observe you.. benefits you the most. The less that you have of it, causes longer periods of  people observing you to not like you as much. Hillary entering very late would remove a part of this weakness for her.

Otherwise, Pete Buttigieg looks like their best. 

Trump’s ‘dream scenario’ unfolds: Dem disarray ahead of 2020

By metmike - Feb. 10, 2020, 11:02 a.m.
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Democrats pick Hillary Clinton as 2020 front-runner in new party poll

metmike: And she isn't even running!

 I think that with previous top runner Biden taking a hit, this makes for an even stronger case for Clinton.

People who are very disappointed with the current candidates would be sold on her story line of stepping in at the last minute to say the day for the dems.

The current batch of  weak candidates, just makes her look that much stronger and she actually is the most qualified to be president of them all.

By TimNew - Feb. 10, 2020, 1:06 p.m.
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She'd have to move soon to get into the primaries before it's too late.

By wglassfo - Feb. 11, 2020, 4:27 p.m.
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Something that has got my attention

Bloomberg replacing Biden as the person of reasonable character and choice

Hillary entering the race at a brokered Dem convention on the same ticket as Bloomberg, either VP or President

I would think Bloomberg for president and Hillary as VP would be the strongest choice for Dems

I  think this will be a back room Dem ticket choice at the convention, as none of the current candidates will have enough support, as they continue to duke it out with each other and radical differences with each other and most of middle america 

Dems need big donations vs token money

Hard to ignore big money and an alternative for Biden, as big donors come on board, led by Bloomberg

Of coarse the Dems could do the same thing and stay home as two outsiders replace their choice. That is a very big negative

It remains to be seen if Bloomberg can garner popular support before the convention and unite the Dem party

By GunterK - Feb. 11, 2020, 9:26 p.m.
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'.....Dems need big donations vs token money...."

Bloomberg has made it clear.... he will spend billions of dollars of his own money to get elected.