Dave,
I see that you have mastered your trolling skills so that they include this:
"The lowest form of life on the internet, looked down upon and hated even by other trolls."
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Copy%2FPaste%20Troll
And using Rawstory for your source...........shades of mojo for anybody that remembers our friend(ok, I tried for many months to be his friend/helper) that was permanently banned by Alex, then Jullie and I tried to help him post respectfully but it just wasn't in him
(BTW, mojo still sends me hate emails every week, calling me and the forum all sorts of disgusting names.........and its been well over a year).
As I stated earlier Dave,
Those that hate President Trump the most.........act the most like him/have very similar character traits.
Dave,
You keep repeating this over and over and over as if it means that this drug can't work because you don't understand how the drug works.
I had already acknowledged my concern with this study when finding out that some patients were also taking steroids.
Personally, I have not decided how much HCQ works but being familiar with the biological mechanism...........which is why its used extensively for autoimmune diseases and inflammation, I am 100% certain that it would help to fight inflammation in SOME patients.
This may be 1 reason why steroids are working too(the other is that steroids suppress /regulate your immune system.
You keep hanging your hat on anything and everything that shows this drug can't work.......including discrediting ALL results of the latest study, as if the HCQ couldn't have been responsible for any of those big life savings benefits.
Whether you will admit it or not, if inflammation is part of this disease(in the lungs) as reports suggest then HCQ will help SOME patients because its proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that HCQ reduces inflammation.
You keep dwelling on everything that discredits this drug....................I'm looking at everything with an open mind and a pretty good understanding of how it actually works.
Show me where I am wrong about the inflammation?
This is why I'm right:
https://arthritis-research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13075-019-2040-6
SAA stimulation induced significant production of IL-1β in human neutrophils. SAA stimulation also induced NF-κB activation, pro-IL-1β mRNA expression, and NLRP3 protein expression in human neutrophils. HCQ pretreatment significantly inhibited the SAA-induced IL-1β production in human neutrophils, but did not affect the SAA-induced NF-κB activation, pro-IL-1β mRNA expression, and NLRP3 protein expression. Furthermore, SAA stimulation induced cleaved caspase-1 (p20) secretion from human neutrophils, and this release was suppressed by HCQ pretreatment.
Treatment with HCQ was associated with impaired production of IL-1β in SAA-stimulated human neutrophils without affecting the priming process of the NLRP3 inflammasome such as pro-IL-1β or NLRP3 induction. These findings suggest that HCQ affects the NLRP3 activation process, resulting in the impaired IL-1β production in human neutrophils, as representative innate immune cells.
Dave,
You keep forcing arguments on me, then when I respond..........and you don't like the response, you claim that I am overextending my reach as a moderator.
I know that you are enjoying this because, like vandy the CONFRONTATION is what drives and rewards you.
Please try to be less confrontational here Dave and fight the nuerotic urge, conditioned from years of bad behavior/poor habits to pick fights here.
Regardless of whether HCQ is found to have some value in treating covid, IMO it was irresponsible and anti-scientific for Trump to have repeatedly touted it as an effective cure, before there was evidence one way or another.
We have agreed strongly on this pj!
This is just one of a zillion examples of where Trump "trumps" his experts in areas that he has no clue about and just says things based on what he thinks will help paint a rosy picture to the American people.
Then, the MSM, knowing that Trump is not an expert and might have to for sure did say something dumb, will focus all their energy on discrediting whatever it is that he said to the point of presenting the opposite extreme, when the truth could be in the middle somewhere...............and they both might be wrong. with some elements because its all black or white and there are not shades of grey when it comes to Trump issues.
Like in this case.
Trump came out for this drug prematurely and pushed things to his usual extreme that made it appear to be a miracle drug.
If he had let his medical experts, basically say the same thing but with less enthusiasm, we might have had high hopes for the potential that this drug would benefit but with great caution and uncertainty that the medical community message would have communicated.
Once Trump went overboard/extreme on this, the MSM and even some in the medical community reacted to the opposite extreme on this to prove that Trump is wrong..........believing all evidence that this drug is bad and not believing any evidence that it might work.
Regardless pj, as I tell you, Trumps position on anything has no affect on my objectivity when it comes to science.
Obviously, on climate change his position of withdrawing from the Accord came way after I had been studying it for 2 decades and I cringe when he talks about it because he's likely to say something that is scientifically wrong to support the position.
You might be surprised at how many things that I disagree with him on.
At the top of the list is his leadership and communication skills, lack of ability to use tact and instead blurt out impulsive, divisive thoughts that feature an embellishment of facts(thats being generous) to paint an unrealistic picture of whatever reality that he is promoting.
Then, his character flaws which result in him being mean in the way he OVER reacts to being criticized with visious, offensive attacks on anybody that does this.........even from his own party(Romney).
One would think that a person like me could never, ever support a person that I consider the complete opposite of what I would like to be like.
But then, if you watch whats going on right now across the country, you can see what the other choice would be and for me, that one is much worse.
Not because I'm against socialism or helping the poor, just the opposite. I think we MUST have socialized medicine for it to ever work. But the destroying the reputations of hundreds of thousands of great cops and failing to assist blacks in their communities in ways that would make a difference, pushing for a fairy tale, green new deal that would obliterate our economy and making up a climate crisis when we have a climate optimum(hijacking my field/profession to do it) , all for their political agenda..........is an even WORSE choice for me.
Let's see what went wrong...
"had taken her on June 10 to a church-sponsored event to intentionally expose her immunocompromised daughter, who had survived cancer at 2, to the potentially deadly coronavirus."
Cutworm: Those people that are immunocompromised need to take special care to not get exposed
"Davis allegedly gave her daughter azithromycin, "
Cutworm: Where did she get the prescription to get this drug? was some DR caring for her at this point?If not how did she get the drug?
"next put the girl on her grandfather’s oxygen machine after she “looked gray” on June 19, Jones reported.
Cutworm : low oxygen levels need to be treated by a Dr. ASAP or sooner
"Then she gave the girl hydroxychloroquine, an antimalarial drug"
Cutworm: again how did she get this drug? Those who tout the drug also say that the way it is used has alot to do with the outcome.
Davis finally took her daughter to a hospital, where she was admitted to a pediatric intensive-care unit — but declined intubation until it was too late, Jones wrote.
cutworm: again the dr's had there hands tied as to what they could do
Bottom line this case is not necessarily indicative of what the correct use of hydroxychloroquine can or cannot do .
Great critical thinking and comments cutworm!
With regards to the safety issue of taking it.............you can hurt and even kill yourself taking too much of anything that is good in the right dose.
Anybody that continually insists that this drug is dangerous/harmful when being taken using a doctors advise........including CNN is just ignorant about the affects of the drug and/or blinded by their hatred of Trump in their views.
The hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) efficacy issue has generated a lot of debate globally as well. The Lancet study is now under severe criticism from more than 180 scientists worldwide for not releasing the data for an independent analysis outside.
The scientific community is furious seeing a poorly written and poorly executed study published in The Lancet that has not only received huge underserved publicity but also created a massive negative impact on the other judiciously planned clinical trials being conducted around the world. More than 100 scientists and clinicians have sent an open letter to The Lancet's editor, Richard Horton, and the paper's authors asking them many uncomfortable questions, but have failed to receive convincing answers from the authors.
The letter alleges that
Meanwhile, Professor Harvey Risch, MD, Epidemiologist from Yale University has recommended an early therapy with Hydroxychloroquine & Azithromycin in the early therapy for COVID-19. His study Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk Covid-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis has been published by Oxford University Press, on behalf of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
So we have this isolated incident/story to show us.............I'm not quite sure what the point is because one can see several things going on that cutworm addressed well.
Lets compare it to Tylenol.
We all know what that is and may have taken it numerous times.
"Tylenol can kill, and McNeil, the Johnson & Johnson-owned company that distributes it, has done startlingly little to protect its consumers over the decades.
In fact, that figure's actually a fairly conservative estimate. Over the summer, Time reported that closer to 500 people die in the U.S. from overdosing on acetaminophen, with another 55,000 to 80,000 ending up in the ER for the same reason. And it's not just Tylenol—the ingredient also appears in Excedrin pain tablets, Sudafed sinus pills, and hundreds of other over-the-counter products.
What makes acetaminophen especially dangerous, though, is the worryingly small gap between the recommended dose and the dose that can harm or even kill consumers. As one FDA report put it, that gap puts "a large fraction of users close to a toxic dose in the ordinary course of use."
This was one finding by a Dallas doctor named Will Lee, who spent decades studying acetaminophen toxicity. It sounds preposterous, but makes sense given how long it take for acetaminophen poisoning to kick in."
metmike: This is quite sad and very under reported by the MSM and gatekeepers of information that they want us to know.
Do you know how we could immediately turn this into headline news and make everybody that reads a paper or watching television aware of how deadly Tylenol is?
Keep it in the news for weeks, so that anybody not living in a cave would know how dangerous Tylenol is?
There is only one way to guarantee this with certainty just less than the sun rising in the east tomorrow morning ...........................
Have President Trump come out for Tylenol (-:
Funny, but you know that it's true.
