What happened to us
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Started by wglassfo - Sept. 15, 2020, 9:13 p.m.

Went to an in-law family gathering today

Everybody got along fine until the conversation turned toward what you believe is true or not

Wow: Did that ever stir up a hornet's nest.

 There seems to be no middle ground for debate. I am right and you are wrong, seems to be the prevailing view point on some subjects.. The dis-agreement was about the power of twitter to ban certain subjects, or people. In this case it was my statement about the chinese scientist, and her paper about the virus coming from china, being banned from twitter. Immediately somebody said the scientist was wrong

I replied that was not my point: rather the simple fact that she was banned from twitter. So the reply was that certain subjects were off limits for twitter because it would cause all kinds of trouble between those who supported the paper and those who disagreed

My reply was what happened to good old fashion debate???

Well accusations flew back and forth such as the gist was I am right and you are wrong or visa versus. We could not even have a civil discussion with out the right or wrong thing surfacing, and everybody had an opinion, some talking over others, myself included, with raised voices

Finally, we all calmed down and turned to other more mundane topics that did not stir such passionate responses

Golly, why do some subjects of conversation stir such deep emotions. 

Today it was about racial, virus and what was right or wrong about said topics. Everybody was convinced anybody who disagreed was wrong. No middle ground in that part of the day.. No discussion about this or that part that might sway one's opinion, no middle ground, just right or wrong

We had Trump supporters and Biden supporters but neither name was mentioned

The other side of the family [my side] is just as bad about certain subjects

Comments
By 7475 - Sept. 15, 2020, 9:38 p.m.
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Wanye

 Thats the way it unfolds when I try to talk with my wife except there isnt any "right" when it comes to my opinions.

No digression - always been that way,  Hee Hee

  John

PS-seriously tho,I see the same thing most places/people.

   And it IS getting worse

By metmike - Sept. 16, 2020, 12:46 p.m.
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Wonderful observation Wayne!

It's very sad and has even affected my siblings, who have agreed to not bring up politics because of the divisiveness and emotions it stirs up.

It's affecting most of the country right now and focuses on President Trump and the main emotion destroying our country right now is hatred for him.

There is more to it but as moderator of MarketForum that is a microcosm of the world, that clearly has been the case.

You will note that we lost all the liberals that once dominated this site. I will explain exactly what happened.

The political crapola was upsetting to traders back when Alex was moderator(wonderful guy), so he arranged for MarketForum to branch off into a 2nd NTR forum before he passed away.

After he suddenly passed, Julie took over and the new forum gradually died over the course of 5 months. There were zero posts in some weeks, other than tallpine. I guess people were used to the old format.

So I stepped in and contacted previous posters and started making numerous trading and positive posts which helped revived the place. I allowed  almost everything and anything to be posted to encourage traffic.

After 6 months, I noticed a disturbing pattern. Not much increase in trading posts but almost all the traffic was the results of several posters who came here only to  attack Trump and people that supported President Trump(often in unacceptable ways and personal).....who then responded in kind with their own attacks. 

Both sides were doing it but one side was causing most of it.

In my personal life, I apply integrity and efforts to try to make the world a better place.. I have coached 3,500 young people in chess over 25 years and wanted to send their families/parents to this site to get our daily weather and positive updates to this site but realized I couldn't do it. 

Who wants their child coached by a guy that moderates a site with a lot of mean people who call each other names, using foul language and hate based on divisive politics.

As a scientist, I decided to  use data to confirm and change this.

I went did a comprehensive look at 6 months of posting and found that 65% of the NTR posts were Trump bashing posts, almost all of which were communicated with unacceptable language and intent.........personal attacks, foul language, meanness and so on.

So I announced new standards based on who I am as a person and this was the only way I will be moderator here. At the same time, I was extremely tolerant of those that were violating the new standards........respectfully pointing out their infractions and telling them that was no longer acceptable here and asking them to PLEASE express the same thoughts in an acceptable manner.

I even created a "Trump bashing thread" for numerous months to help them.

After violating that policy repeatedly and even being defiant in some cases, calling me a liar and telling me that the moderator should not be able to post their opinion....severa got booted, starting 18 months ago. 

Incredibly, after all that time, some of them still contact me on a regular basis,  using the moderator button with mean personal attacks on me and people here that they hate. What great reinforcement for making the right decision!

But we still had several acceptably posting liberals left, who they lost their vast majority status and the playing field had been leveled to only include, mostly respectful posting and me jumping in constantly with 100% facts, when President Trump was being attacked with fake news from the MSM/dems, as well as when he was bloviating as a bully, displaying meanness and made up facts.

I constantly encouraged the complaining liberals, that didn't like these new rules to post more if they disagreed. Express themselves more. Tell us what is wrong with those that they disagree with. 

They threatened to leave if I continued to let the other side make positive Trump posts or make posts they disagreed with that they thought were conspiracy theories. 

But the position was clear. They can't stand being around people that support President Trump because, most of them hate Trump too  much.

However, even though I was sad to see them leave, our principles and standards here  include tolerance of sincerely expressed views done respectfully and acceptably..............whether they agree with Trump or disagree with Trump. 

Human nature causes most of us to seek out echo chambers to read and hear views that confirm our personal belief systems vs learning new things from people who see things differently.

So, sadly their  human nature and hate from Donald Trump caused us to lose our liberal friends.

I would love it here if this were a 90% liberal posting site, posting liberal ideas in sincerity and respectfully.......but with 100% tolerance for the other side to do the same thing. 

But people today have no tolerance for views that are different from theirs and the world has caused it.


CNN broadcasts extremely liberal views and hatred for Trump.

FOX broadcasts extremely conservative views  and support of Trump no matter what the scenario...and distain for liberal ideology.

The internet is the same thing.

When we surround ourselves with one sided views and news that reinforces our own views it convinces us more and more that we are entirely right and the other side is entirely wrong and to listen less and less and less to what the other side has to say..............until we stop listening and want them silenced because we are so convinced that they are 100% wrong and can't stand for their opinions/thoughts. 

And we don't even want to be around people that have different views than ours.............because there are so many other places we can go to, with people just like us that tell us things we like to hear that confirm out personal belief system and make us feel good. 


This is NOT how we learn new things and its NOT how we learn to get along with people that we disagree with............just the opposite. 


That's just the way it is in the world right now.


MarketForum will always allow all views from both sides, even extreme views that I disagree with completely and are not based on science but expressed sincerely and respectfully.

In fact, those are, by far my favorite views, especially with regards to climate science.

If your position is based on authenticity, then the only way to prove that is by having it challenged.............not silenced. If you can't defend the challenge with authentic OBJECTIVE, INDISPUTABLE facts(that are not emotional or political), then it's time to question your own position. 

Silencing the other sides position that you disagree with, means that:

1. You don't have those facts to debunk them

2. You don't respect other human beings enough to allow them to express themselves.

3. You are closed minded.

4. You are being blinded by hatred


  you were warned            

                            22 responses |             

                Started by mcfarm - Aug. 11, 2020, 10:31 a.m.         

   https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/57425/

Hate is the most destructive emotion of all.

"It will cause you to lower and violate the  previous standards that you set for yourself for ethical behavior and honestly because this emotion drives you to hurt the person that you hate more than those  previous standards cause you to follow the truth and be objective...............and act professionally, with integrity. 

It will cause you to do and say things that are harmful to you and your reputation when the hate becomes neurotic because you become so obsessed with harming the hated person that rational thinking no longer applies.

.

Your interpretation of circumstances involving the hated person becomes so blatantly skewed  that the hoped for endpoint in every realm is always for them to be hurt. 

Hate blackens the heart and soul of the hater. It can ruin personal relationships and ironically, more often than not destroys the hater, not the target of their hatred.


This emotion drives the thoughts of many people when it comes to any issue involving President Trump."


By bear - Sept. 19, 2020, 10:03 p.m.
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 it is worse today than what it was 30 years ago.   and the people on the far left are the worst of all.  they are most likely to get really mad if don't confirm everything they want to believe.  they are also the ones that will complain the loudest , and even go online and tell everyone how horrible you are.