our amazing incredible constitution
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Started by mcfarm - April 11, 2021, 11:17 a.m.

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By metmike - April 11, 2021, 11:58 a.m.
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The Constitution was a wonderful document but it absolutely does NOT effectively address all issues in the 21st century.............hundreds of years later.

It's often used today by both sides to support THEIR biased position..............at the expense of ignoring the REAL facts in 2021.



What’s Wrong with the Constitution?

https://russroberts.medium.com/whats-wrong-with-the-constitution-7566a62c8d33


But we think it’s very important for people to look at the Constitution objectively and ask: How does it affect governance today? It was written a little over 225 years ago by Founders who had no idea about the problems we would be facing today and the kind of government that we would need to be responsive in an effective way to those problems. And so they designed a government for their times — for the late 1700s. For a nation of 4 million people, 700,000 of whom were slaves. Of the free people, 95% were farmers.

This was a time when government wasn’t expected to do much. And the Founders designed a government of separation of powers with a parochial Congress at its center that couldn’t do much. And, you know, that may have been fine for the late 1700s, but it’s not fine for today, when we’re just awash in problems that need to be dealt with.



By metmike - April 11, 2021, 12:04 p.m.
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Constitution Daily

Smart conversation from the National Constitution Center

10 reasons why America’s first constitution failed


https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/10-reasons-why-americas-first-constitution-failed

By metmike - April 11, 2021, 12:07 p.m.
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How the U.S. Constitution Has Changed and Expanded Since 1787

Through amendments and legal rulings, the Constitution has transformed in some critical ways.

https://www.history.com/news/constitution-amendments-changes

By mcfarm - April 11, 2021, 12:09 p.m.
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there are plenty of Americans that see a limited government as a positive. In fact it is meant to be from the beginning just that way. Do you have any idea where tyranny comes from and when. Its when the people are fearful of their government, when grows too big and becomes a hindrance. As an example when most everything becomes about hate and race.

By metmike - April 11, 2021, 12:11 p.m.
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I agree completely with that mcfarm!

We don't need a Constitution to tell us that but can apply the principles of that Constitution that make good sense today. There are plenty of them in the Constitution.

By metmike - April 11, 2021, 12:15 p.m.
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The Fourth Battle for the Constitution

                        

The latest struggle to define America's founding charter will define the country for generations to come.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/constitutions-future-hanging-balance/598636/

The first battle, fought from 1787 to 1791 over the proposal and ratification of the Constitution, concerned the nature and scope of federal power to raise funds for the common defense, to create a national economy, and to protect private property against mob violence. The second battle, fought during and after the Civil War, concerned the preservation of the Union, the extinction of slavery, and the promise of extending civil and political rights to African Americans. The third battle, fought over Franklin D. Roosevelt’s court-packing proposal in 1937, concerned the constitutionality of the Progressive-era and New Deal regulatory state and whether the Supreme Court should interpret the federal government’s power to regulate the economy broadly or narrowly. This included Congress’s power to delegate authority to the president and the president’s power to act unilaterally at home and abroad.

Ever since the third battle ended in the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold the post–New Deal regulatory state, conservatives and libertarians have insisted that by abandoning checks on congressional, executive, and judicial power, the Court betrayed the original meaning of the Constitution. Ushering in the fourth battle for the Constitution, Republican presidents since Ronald Reagan have pledged to appoint justices who would reverse the post–New Deal understanding of the Constitution and limit federal and judicial power by reining in the administrative state, overturning Roe v. Wade, and enforcing the ideal of a color-blind Constitution.

                                    

The election of 2020 may well resolve this fourth battle for the Constitution, which has been exacerbated during Donald Trump’s presidency by an unusual series of constitutional conflicts about the nature and scope of executive versus congressional power. Some of them—such as the challenges to the president’s travel ban and proposed addition of a citizenship question to the census—are being resolved by the Supreme Court. Others, involving the president’s contacts with Ukraine, could culminate, over the next year, in impeachment by the House and acquittal by the Senate. If Trump wins reelection and replaces a liberal justice with a conservative one, there will likely be five solid votes on the Supreme Court to revive the originalist Constitution; if a Democrat wins, the fourth battle will continue, perhaps resulting in a form of court packing, a Republican Senate’s refusal to confirm Democratic nominees, or other instances of extraordinary constitutional conflict.

By TimNew - April 11, 2021, 12:19 p.m.
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So,   we have another individual who feels the constitution is an "antiquated relic" written by a bunch of rich old white guys.  People with these beliefs often also believe the government is good at things like running businesses and social engineering.

People who actually pay attention realize that even today,  225 years after the constitution was written,  government is still a necessary evil and should be treated as such with powers and duties limited to defense and enforcment of laws that are written to specifically address  and protect the inalienable rights with which we are born. 

Let us solve our own problems without the government intrusion that actually causes most of our problems today.

But hey...   Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe there are examples of government success in these areas.   If so,   I'm all ears.

By metmike - April 11, 2021, 12:41 p.m.
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Thanks Tim!


By WxFollower - April 11, 2021, 1:03 p.m.
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mc said:

“there are plenty of Americans that see a limited government as a positive.”


Tim said:

 “Let us solve our own problems without the government intrusion that actually causes most of our problems today.”

——————————————————

 mc and Tim,

1. So, how do your quotes above line up with Trump, the dictator wannabe, pressuring GA to find enough votes to put him over the top and his overall horrible treatment of Gov Kemp and the GA Sec of State? How is that possibly even remotely consistent with limited govt and govt not intruding?

2. Since you two are such Constitutionalists, Trump pressuring Pence to literally violate the Constitution by not acknowledging that Biden was the Constitutionally elected next POTUS on January 6th should be getting strong criticism in this thread by you two among others.

3. Trump should not be supported any more by any true “limited” govt fans or Constitutionalists or otherwise it would reek of a double standard.

By metmike - April 11, 2021, 3:47 p.m.
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Excellent points Larry!

By TimNew - April 11, 2021, 6:30 p.m.
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WX,     your fixation on Trump is duly noted.    It has nothing to do with the points I made,  but I get your attempt at diversion.


The charge that Trump pressured the SOS of GA to find enough votes was kinda debunked.  He was not asking for manufactured votes.  He was asking that the fraud be identified.  We know there are serious questions about the validity of many ballots in spite of some people's denial.   Serious moves have been made at making sure only eligible voters cast ballots and the manufactured outcry from the likes of Stacey Abrams would give most objective people a clue.  "VOTER ID!?!?!?!?!?.  We can't have THAT!!!!!"  And in the final, that's their only objection. 

Trump pressuring Pence was way beyond meta-constitutional and Pence knew that.  (I may vote for him if he runs.) It was probably the worst thing Trump ever did.  Are you a fan of the constitution?   That must mean you agree with my original assertions above.  Kewl :-)

I've already said I would never vote for Trump again.  Several times.  So I am not sure of the point you are trying to make there.


Now.   If someone/anyone would be so kind as to answer my original question as to government successes.    TIA

By metmike - April 11, 2021, 9:22 p.m.
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Thanks Tim!