Covid in Europe, and some vaxx math UPDATED
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Started by GunterK - Nov. 12, 2021, 5 p.m.

As some of you know, I am an immigrant from Germany. I still keep track of what’s happening over there.

Late November is the time when most towns start their traditional Christmas Markets.These are out-door events, where holiday-oriented products are sold, and where food and drinks are served, in a festive environment.

Last year, everything was shut down, due to the pandemic.This year, there are mixed feelings. A recent upswing in cases has convinced some municipalities to again shut down.

Others plan to proceed with various levels of restrictions.In one large city, unvaxxed people must show proof of negative test to be admitted.  In another large town, everybody can attend without restrictions,  but unvaxxed people are not allowed near the food stands. (Yeah, that makes sense, ha)

This reminds me of a funny recent incident….

Not long ago, in a small town near Frankfurt, they held an in-door concert. No unvaxxed people were allowed to attend or perform, not even when a recent test has found them to be uninfected.

So they held their concert, with not a single unvaxxed person in attendance... and it turned out to be a major “spreader event”

Lol…. Actually, this is not funny, since many people wound up suffering.Why? Because the authorities provide a false sense of security, as far as the vaxx is concerned.

Let’s look at the numbers and facts…

Germany is 67% fully vaxxed and 30% unvaxxed.

The efficacy of the vaxx is 39%... this means 61% of the vaxxed group is just as unprotected as the unvaxxed group…. 0.61*67%=40%

In other words, when you leave the house, everybody is a threat to you, with the vaxxed people more so than the unvaxxed ones. Wear a mask, if you want to be safe and avoid large groups of people.

(note: these numbers are for Germany.US has slightly different numbers)

By metmike - Nov. 13, 2021, 1:22 a.m.
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You forgot to mention that getting vaccinated for COVID makes you 11 times less likely to die from it and sharply reduces your chances of getting long COVID, which is causing around 50% of people to have lingering serious symptoms for 6 months after getting clobbered by COVID.

Be smart.

Follow the science.

Get vaccinated.

I got my COVID booster shot earlier today, along with the 2nd flu shot of my life.

They gave them in different arms.

I never got flu vaccines because I never get sick. Not anti vaxx but just never got sick.

After doing the research on vaccines in 2020 because of COVID, it was like.......dugh, Mike your 65 now and these virus’s kill people like you and there’s only a minuscule risk with a tremendous benefit....and they’re free.

I’ll be getting the flu and COVID  shots for the rest of my life!

By metmike - Nov. 14, 2021, 1:25 p.m.
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"In other words, when you leave the house, everybody is a threat to you, with the vaxxed people more so than the unvaxxed ones."

My intention was just to follow up on my getting vaccinated in this thread but I copied the above quote to be totally transparent to you Gunter.....and  where this is headed again so that you have ample warning (actually you're turning into the cat with 9 lives and this is life 9) don't go repeating your poor victim role(supposedly with altruistic motive to just trying to tell the censored truths), being unfairly targeted and surprised with no warnings that you were doing anything wrong.

If you believe I'm going to fall for your distorting scenarios to sneak in your dishonest messages,  then you must think you're much more clever than you are.


There are a million  topics on the planet. I advise you to pick from the 999,999 that don't keep getting you in trouble here. 

You can post on this if you want............but it better be the fact based truth. 

The fact that you have been unable to do that all year with over 200 anti COVID vaxx posts with DISinformation...........suggests a serious problem for you.

Please don't fool yourself(because I'm not fooled) into thinking this was not an anti COVID vaxx post.

Again, I am pointing this out...... to HELP YOU, not to help me.

By GunterK - Nov. 18, 2021, 2:43 p.m.
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A quick update to my original post…

It’s getting worse….

Right now, they are having a HUGE outbreak in Germany.... much, much worse than the outbreaks of 2020, when the vaxx was not available.  Of course, this was not supposed to happen, with most people now being vaxxed..The vaxx was supposed to have prevented all this.

The government is now blaming the unvaxxed people for this problem. Following Austria’s example,some regions in Germany are now considering a lockdown of unvaxxed people.

I have seen articles written about more unvaxxed people being in the hospitals than vaxxed people. This may be quite correct, in some locations, however, at the same time they are ignoring the fact that gatherings of vaxxed people have turned into spreader events.  A good portion of the vaxxed people are now also spreading the virus.

The simple truth is that the arrival of the Delta changed everything (and that’s what quite a few of my posts of the past were all about).

Locking up unvaxxed people, IMHO, will not improve the situation… but, hey, you gotta blame someone.

In the meantime, similar things are happening in other countries.... Singapore, 85% vaccinated… huge outbreak.

If I remember correctly, one of our forum friends recently posted about Waterford, a city in Ireland.Their hospitals are filling up with Covid cases.The news media are confused… The city has the highest vaccination rate in Ireland (99.5%), and, at the same time, it also has the highest infection rate in the country.  How can this be???

Maybe it’s time to wake up and face reality.

And then there is Gibraltar…. as far as I know, the only place on earth that’s 100% vaccinated… (actually, they are 118% vaccinated, if you include the Spanish guest workers who work there)… Gibraltar is cancelling Christmas this year, because of a huge outbreak.  I can see their politicians being frustrated, because there are no unvaxxed people to blame.

By metmike - Nov. 18, 2021, 3:35 p.m.
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I figured you were still going to your DISinformation sites and hadn't learned anything based on previous conversations Gunter and would be back here passing on the anti COVID vaxx information after just a few days off. As long as you keep going to these far right sites Gunter, your mind will be filled with DISinformation.

You totally forgot to mention...........errrr, I mean you intentionally did not mention and in fact intentionally made it appear to be the complete opposite of the fact....... so that you could mislead your's mostly UNvaccinated people in Germany causing the problem.

But the authentic science and facts always follow up and correct your DISinformation here Gunter. 

Germany’s Fourth Covid Wave: ‘A Pandemic of the Unvaccinated’

Germany once set an example for how to manage the coronavirus. Now, deep pockets of vaccine resistance are helping drive daily infections to new heights.

“It’s our low rate of vaccination — we haven’t done what was necessary,” said Dr. Herold in Giessen. She was part of a team of scientists who modeled the impact of a fourth wave and warned in early summer that with the hyper contagious Delta variant at least 85 percent of the whole population would need to be vaccinated to avert a crisis in the health care system. 

“We are still below 70 percent,” she said. “I don’t know how we can win this race against time with the fourth wave. I fear we’ve already lost.”

Germany’s vaccination rate is far better than that of many central and eastern European countries, where the death toll from coronavirus is soaring. In Romania, for example, only about four in 10 people have had two shots, and coronavirus deaths have hit record levels.

Still, with about one in three Germans not yet fully vaccinated, the German vaccination rate is among the lowest in Western Europe. In Belgium, Denmark and Italy three in four people are fully vaccinated. In Spain and Iceland, only about two in 10 have yet to get the second shot. Portugal has a vaccination rate of close to 90 percent.

“We have two viruses in the country,” Markus Söder, the Bavarian governor, said in a television debate recently. “We have coronavirus and we have this poison, which is being spread on a massive scale,” he said referring to misinformation about vaccines.

metmike: Gunter, you bring this poison to MarketForum constantly and have been corrected something like 200 times this year. 

It takes an open mind to learn!

By metmike - Nov. 18, 2021, 3:43 p.m.
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By metmike - Nov. 18, 2021, 4:02 p.m.
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By metmike - Nov. 18, 2021, 4:11 p.m.
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Wouldn't it make you feel better to bring something positive here?

Something that helps people, not misleads them?

Something based on the authentic science?

What is in it for you in doing this, I need to ask?

I realize that there are other sad sacks with brainwashed group think anti COVID vaxx junk in their heads that get a kick out of passing around stuff because their far right sites have convinced them to think that its expressing their freedom and right to oppose the government but.......other than that, what does Gunter personally get out of passing along DISinformation?

You already showed us exactly where the brainwash is coming from but I'm asking you to try to  think outside of their brainwash and answer the questions above please.

It’s ironic that you sent those 200 or so links from the same sources as evidence because you wanted everybody here to see your evidence.

It’s like I said to cfdr, ‘watch out for what you wish for....because you might just get it”

I’ve been more than happy to copy that post numerous times here to show all that evidence that you are so proud of. 106 of those links/stories just from Alex Jones at info wars.

That, instead of believing 97% of the medical doctors and virologists on the vaccines. Or the objective interpretations of most studies by scientists......including me, though that’s not my scientific field of expertise.....I understand medical science extremely well.

Or anybody, in fact  that contradicts far right sources.this is also why you have fallen for so many other conspiracy theories.

Chemtrails in the sky are chemicals from the government trying to brainwash us.

Burned out cars from the wildfires in CA, are from energy beams from chineses satellites.

The explosion in Nashville was from an energy beam from space to destroy the evidence in that building that  would have proven dominions role in shifting massive votes to biden.

The vaccine kills more people than COVID.

At least I got you to finally stop saying that the COVID vaccine alters our DNA but that took a year.

You didn’t discover any of this on your own Gunter. You read about all of it on far right sites...believed it and posted it here.

How else did metmike know about it.

You dropped the other silly stuff but are stuck on your very mentally unhealthy COVID DISinformation obsession because your far right conspiracy theory sites have control of your brain and they are being relentless.

If you truly understood that, you would be outraged at them for stealing your intelligence.

By jmk - Nov. 18, 2021, 6:17 p.m.
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Mike please explain something to me as I havent gotten a  clear answer from the media. First let me tell you I have had covid and both shots. By the way the reason I got the shots was back in time we were told to get the shots and avoid getting covid, and I didn't want to get it again, now we know they were wrong about that. Please explain to me how a un vaxxed person is a danger to me or anyone else. 1. I can still get covid from vaxxed and un vaxxed so it cant be about that unless I missed it . 2. I understood the part about unvaxxed people more likely to be put in the hospital therfore taking up room from me if I needed a procedure,but that is no more as I understand it. So unless a unvaxxed person is more likely to catch covid and therfore spread it to me which is not what I understand only they would be more likely to have a worse case than me why are they a danger to anyone but themselves. I am not antivaxx just trying to understand the argument, thanks.

By metmike - Nov. 18, 2021, 6:45 p.m.
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Thanks for the question.

Absolutely unvaxxed  people are much more likely to get COVID And obviously to pass it on.

I’ll get some stats when back home to share again.

Where did you get the idea that the vaccines were not effective at greatly reducing your....everybody’s chances of getting COVID?

Glad you are vaccinated!

The more people that get COVID, the more opportunity it’s getting to mutate again and new mutations have the potential to be even more contagious and possibly render the current vaccines less effective or not effective at some point.

By GunterK - Nov. 18, 2021, 6:53 p.m.
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metmike, I encourage you to read my original post in this thread again.

I did not post any links from far-right sites. This info came from regular German news media. I quoted only facts.

I wrote of an event where no unvaxxed people were allowed to attend, and it turned into a significant spreader event….as just one example. That’s a fact.

(This is nothing new...our own agencies have already admitted that the virus also attacks vaccinated people.This may not be what some here would like to hear… but these are facts).

Then I used the vaxx efficacy of 39%, a generally accepted fact…. first admitted by Israel in July, and later verified by our Johns Hopkins… that’s a fact

I then did simple math with these factual numbers, applicable to Germany…..what’s so difficult to understand about this math???

Using these facts and calculating the numbers, I came to the very reasonable conclusion that both vaxxed and unvaxxed people can represent a danger to the unprepared, and that it’s best to wear masks when being around other people (regardless of their vaccination status).  I would call this a positive contribution to MF

And you call this poisonous misinformation????


You go to far-left NYT to make your point. This article plays the same blame-game… blaming the unvaxxed… as I was trying to expose with my post.

You often accuse me of “cherry picking”… so is this doctor in that article… talking about Spain and Portugal… and she already shot herself in the foot, talking about Iceland….with an almost 80% vaccination rate, Iceland is experiencing a HUGE outbreak, bigger than anything they have ever seen before.

Singapore… 85%... huge outbreak!

And Gibraltar, which already in july had a 2,500% mind-boggling month-over-month increase… and they don’t have any unvaxxed people left to blame.

And Covid deaths????

In Scotland, 87% of Covid fatalities are vaxxed!!!  Deaths, not infections!!!

And here in the US…

While your sources are quoting you a 88% protection against Covid death, Vermont’s Covid fatalities were 76% vaxxed people.And this state is more than 70% vaccinated. Deaths, not infections!!! Almost zero protection!!!

The whole point is… on one side you have the vaxx people (including big Pharma and politicians), and they push very hard to have every person on this planet vaccinated (for various obvious reasons).They do so by not telling us the truth, by not admitting that the Delta was a game changer and that the vaxx simply is not able to protect us as they say. What’s the point in having everybody forcefully vaccinated, when the vaxx is not preventing the spread of the virus and not protecting us from death?  

I don’t have any benefit from talking about this… I am not a negative person… I am more of an optimistic person. However, since I have seen so much one-sided information being presented, I thought it would be a good idea to present a more balanced picture. 


Here is one for the road…

This woman in your NYT article wants Germany to be like the other well-vaxxed countries…. 75% to 90% vaxxed.

Well, let’s be at least be 85%  vaxxed… like Singapore

By metmike - Nov. 18, 2021, 8:14 p.m.
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Once again you are trying to deceive people here by not telling the entire story. Even with the high vaccine rates the vast majority of people in the hospital in Singapore are still UNvaccinated. Because it’s that bad for the unvaccinated dude. In fact, next month, Singapore will be forcing all unvaccinated people to pay their own bills for being so unresponsive and putting the enormous stress on the healthcare system.

Your Scottish link claims that 5,522 people died within 28 days of getting vaccinated. I busted you several times trying to pull that fast one.......using a source that was counting any death for anything asfter getting vaccinated as a COVID death in the US and not confirmed COVID deaths. You said you would not do this anymore. You probably don't even realize that are doing this because you Apparently don't FACT CHECK the  data that you get from these places.

When I do it, you usually ignore it. Only data from far right sites counts for you.

The vaccine isn’t supposed to create immortality...and keep you from dying from all those things only helps to  protect you from getting COVID and especially  from getting really sick or dying from COVID and no it doesn’t kill anything but a very tiny fraction of people.

This is more DISinformation Gunter and a cherry picked stat from one small location in one time frame that had a few more people who were vaccinated die that’s who were contrast to 99% of the objective data from all sources and all time frames that shows the massive effectiveness of being vaccinated. Vs not being unvaccinated.

The only reason that you do that here is because you have an audience that goes to the same sites and believes the same stuff.

Gunter, you showed off your 200 links which are sources for this disinformation.  I know that you have an unlimit d supply and can’t control your going to those sits for it and refuse to stop showing it here......even after doing it 200 times in 4 months and finally getting a time out to cool off from your obsessive, pathological posting of it.

If you just showed up in November and started posting this we would be starting fresh with no history. But there is an extremely long history going back the past year.

Are we trying to pace ourselves now to try to get by?

By metmike - Nov. 18, 2021, 8:21 p.m.
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Maybe I should make a rule for you. For every link that you show that has misleading  COVID vaxx information,  and points that you make to intentionally mislead on this have to sit out for a day.

You’d be out for a couple of years if that were applied previously.

No it’s not based on the far right anti COVID Vaxx evaluation system that you use to interpret the world. 

. How about we let an independent, objective scientist that has studied COVID and the vaccine for 1,200+ hours do it? I know just the guy!

I’m liking this idea.

There seriously needs to be consequences to behavior that is leading to thousands of uneccesariy deaths in this country from people not getting,  vaccinated from COVID......besides it being very, very bad for you personally for this bevacior to be enabled here.

Seriously, you have resigned over being confronted 4 separate times......then came back to post even more furiously each time with misleading information.....COVID vaccine kills more people than COVID.......the vaccine alters your DNA and so on.

Sent you 3 personal emails last Summer trying to sincerely help you and suggesting that you get professional help.

Then after over 200 posts, totally ignoring it all, I had no choice but to suspend you in October.....but only from the NTR forum. Then I lifted the suspension 2 weeks early because I figured you understood the message and am really trying to help you on this.

There are 999,999 different things that you can post on here and I’ve asked you to do but you are stricken with a Pathological obsession with this and believing in numerous conspiracy theories.

All of the other ones were fine and they went and left but you can’t let this one go because the convincing sounding sources that you go to feed it.