No, no… it’s not me saying this. I did not study virology at the university. I am not qualified to make any comments on this subject. The comments below are made by the head of the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at Tel Aviv University
I consider the link below to be interesting reading.
Maybe he is wrong, maybe he is not. I am not the one to criticize him. However, many of the things he writes about are things we have witnessed ourselves over here, and some issues were argued about on this forum.
https://swprs.org/professor-ehud-qimron-ministry-of-health-its-time-to-admit-failure/
I read that same article in another place today
Makes for an interesting debate of what is the best coarse to chart
In the beginning we knew nothing and china did not help
Add to this the USA was connected with research dollars and now what?? have we accomplished
I have to admit the unvaxxed may be smarter than people like me who are vaxxed Nobody knows for sure about yrs from now.
For the 1000's of unvaxxed who have passed, let us compare to the 1000's of lives destroyed by drugs, abuse etc. not to mention lives destroyed by lock downs, homeless etc. Of the 1000's who passed away how many were at deaths door step??? for other reasons
Yes vaccines may have done a lot of good. I am certain being vaxxed helped me but I have no proof
We do have proof that lock downs and a host of economic disruptions have caused great harm
I have often said to throw the mask away. No lock down or any economic disruption. If BLM could protest peacefully, then we should be allowed to get on with our lives, in an equal peaceful manner. If the vaccine is so good then why do we need a mask. The unvaxed can take their chances. No amount of forcing vaccination on those who refuse will ever change a person's thoughts
So why not accept it for what it is and get on with a normal life.
Thanks Wayne,
You are right that being vaccinated helped you. At your age, it could have save your life.
Gunter,
Welcome back.
Of course lots of mistakes have been made and many more will happen as this unprecedented, uncharted pandemic continues and we learn as we go along.
The biggest problem that contributed to the most unnecessary deaths.......by an astronomical margin was not being able to convince tens of million of people to get vaccinated that were bamboozled by MISinformation.
Gunter, do you have any suggestions on how we could have changed the minds of people like you.... to not believe the MISinformation that caused many tens of thousands of mostly unvaccinated republicans to die from COVID?
90,000 US COVID-19 deaths could have been prevented
Started by metmike - Jan. 9, 2022, 4:23 p.m.
The great news is the we are entering an entirely new and different phase with the Omicron.
It's likely going to infect almost everyone, quickly establishing natural herd immunity and vaccinations will not be AS vital to save AS MANY lives.
cutworm agrees with me on this.
Omicron =91% reduction in risk of death vs Delta
Started by metmike - Jan. 12, 2022, 6:41 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/80273/
Thank God for this. Can you imagine if the initial deadly waves, without the life saving vaccines was this contagious?
Millions dead in a matter of months?
Or if the very deadly Delta COVID, with the life saving benefits of the vaccine helping over half of the population but killing the unvaccinated at a 10+ times greater rate.......had been this contagious?
Millions dead in a matter of months?
"Yes vaccines may have done a lot of good. I am certain being vaxxed helped me but I have no proof"
No proof? There may never have been a larger data set of proof in the history of science.
Wayne: "Yes vaccines may have done a lot of good. I am certain being vaxxed helped me but I have no proof"
joj: No proof? There may never have been a larger data set of proof in the history of science.
metmike: Our "post of the week" bell just went off!
Thanks joj and Wayne!
No proof? There may never have been a larger data set of proof in the history of science.
Yes of course. The data is absolutely accurate and comprehensive, and the conclusions are all as near to perfect as they can be. No further data is needed. We know all we need to know, provided we listen to the correct people.
The Science is settled!!!
Tim,
joj didn't say that at all. What he said was exactly right.
Why do you continue to insist on frequently mischaracterizing people that you disagree with in order to attack positions they don't have?
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/80187/#80309
OK, that was a rhetorical question because I know why you do it. I've provided numerous opportunities for you to learn why it's unacceptable and dishonest in a discussion/debate.
PLEASE STOP IT!
Gunter, do you have any suggestions on how we could have changed the minds of people like you.... to not believe the MISinformation that caused many tens of thousands of mostly unvaccinated republicans to die from COVID?
Releasing all the information on vaccine data in a timely manner would be a first step. Continuing long term studies on the effects and reporting about the same. Allowing instead of stifling discussion. Firing the guy who funded the gain of function research. I mean who wants to listen to the guy. JMHO
Thanks cutworm.
So those are the reasons people didn't get vaccinated?
Those are the reasons that thousands of pieces of MISinformation/made up, conspircacy theory type speculation was created?
Please help me to see the connection.
It could be that creating and finding/focusing on outlier facts to make people not trust all the authentic sources and reliable/useful data(that I showed many hundreds of times-yes, it does exist) is what allowed nafarious entities to play a wild speculation game to state things that people wanted to believe but were not true but sold it to them based on telling them its secret information being covered up...........so don't believe all the other data.
Sort of like you just did here.
You stated:
"Releasing all the information on vaccine data in a timely manner would be a first step".
I didn't have many problems in finding tons of fresh, timely data from lots of studies, from lots of hospitals(like you've shown) from hundreds of counties and sources and countries.
Hundreds of scientific studies.
Much of it available to you and me on the internet for those who wanted to look.
More data that I know of than any one topic that I remember in my lifetime in such a short period of time.
Was it that you didn't like the data? or that you've been told enough times that there is secret bad data they are hiding that it caused you to believe in the hiding the data false narrative?
So I admit that they should be forced to release ALL the data but this doesn't mean the 99.99% of real data that we know from many billions of people getting shots and getting COVID is no longer valid.
Like the FDA or another entity is hiding some massive secrets that wouldn't come out after billions of people got vaccinated.
That's hundreds of more people than any in all their studies combined. REAL WORLD data that we all know about.
Scientists, doctors, nurses, health care workers, hospitcals, health depts and governments are not all conspiring to hide the real data so that they can trick us into getting vaccinated or into believing that COVID is worse than it really is.
Or that they are manipulating deaths from COVID that really weren't deaths.
Thats all been busted here countless times.
The data..........is the real data and there's more data than in any other realm in history for such a brief period.
By joj - Jan. 12, 2022, 9:19 p.m.
"Yes vaccines may have done a lot of good. I am certain being vaxxed helped me but I have no proof"
No proof? There may never have been a larger data set of proof in the history of science.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/80266/#80281
If you think there was not much data........then you just were not looking or you were looking in the wrong places and listening to the wrong sources.
I managed to find a stunningly massive amount of data by just doing Google searches.
Of course lots of mistakes have been made and many more will happen as this unprecedented, uncharted pandemic continues and we learn as we go along.
This is not unprecedented.
Spanish flue moved in waves. At least 4 waves.
By 1920, the virus that caused the pandemic became much less deadly and caused only ordinary seasonal flu.[11
Seams very similar to Covid
If you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it.
So we had another pandemic 100 years ago, when none of us was alive and that means this one was not unprecedented.
I could list 20 things that are totally different this time, even though we did have a FLU pandemic 100 years ago?
We didn't have antibiotics (for complications of bacterial infections in the lungs) or any treatments back then.
We didn't have the testing.
We didn't have a similar mutation.
We didn't have VACCINATIONS.
We didn't have N95 masks.
We didn't have the internet for massive/widespread communications.
We didn't have the advanced science and massive data being shared about daily numbers that include how many in hospitals are vaccinated and how many aren't.
We didn't have dozens of clinical studies.
We didn't have but a fraction of the understanding that we have today and have provided to the public that want's to learn, understand and make smart decisions.
Just to name a few.
But you think its the same thing?
C'mon cutworm, you can think more critically and open minded than that.
JOJ's atatement.
There may never have been a larger data set of proof in the history of science.
Once again, you acuse me of mischaracterizing when actually, my statement is quite appropos.
We have the largest data set of proof in history. Being unsure of that data and the associated conclusions is unreasonable. Is that not what he said? Did I misread that somehow?
Like the FDA or another entity is hiding some massive secrets that wouldn't come out after billions of people got vaccinated.
No the medical profession would never lie or hide anything. It's never happened before.
Thanks very much cutworm!
And Tim!
The fact that we ALL know with incredible detail the wretched facts and evidence of that event of many, many decades ago is powerful evidence of the advancements in science, medicine, technology, communications, ethics, racial justice and transparency today compared to the way things used to be in that age and the clear lessons that were learned ....by people that want to learn.
For those that dont want to learn anything ...they can pretend that it’s still 1940 or 1950 and man never landed on the moon or that things are still like they used to be for black people and use that as an example on a forum to try to prove that we are still like that in 2022..... a point in an argument that requires such an absurd example that actually proves the complete and total opposite of what they think it does.
You guys will never ever acknowledge any facts or data or truths that don’t line up with exacty what you want to believe no matter how far you have to stretch your imagination to conjure up things and how absurd you need to go to do it.
I rest my case.
So, in other words.
The data is absolutely accurate and comprehensive, and the conclusions are all as near to perfect as they can be. No further data is needed. We know all we need to know, provided we listen to the correct people.
BTW, even Fauci questions the data collection, particularly where people are being counted as Covid Hospitalization when they are actually there for something else and then test positive.
There have been lots of legtitimate questions and concerns about how the data is compiled.
Tim MIScharacterizes my view as:
"The data is absolutely accurate and comprehensive, and the conclusions are all as near to perfect as they can be. No further data is needed. We know all we need to know, provided we listen to the correct people"
How did you get that out of somebody that led off, their first post with:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/80266/#80274
"Of course lots of mistakes have been made and many more will happen as this unprecedented, uncharted pandemic continues and we learn as we go along."
Again, doing what you always do Tim.
I only need to post a link that already addressed it......numerous times now, rather than actually bite at your attempt to draw somebody that doesn't completely understand what you are doing into having an argument over it.
Tim, you don't get it. I'm not arguing with you like you think is happening when we get to this stage. I'm analyzing your behavior and pointing it out for everybody to understand it too.
The hope is that you would see it also but I'm a realist after numerous failed attempts.
I'm absolutely sincere about that.
Shall I count the times you have insisted the data is accurate and that you have total faith in the people collecting the data?
I know it's pointless to ask, but I'm a fool for lost causes.
Facts are, there are lots of documented issues with covid data collection.