Trump Admits He Wanted Pence to Overturn the Election
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Started by metmike - Jan. 31, 2022, 7:23 p.m.

National Review media bias rating is Right(but credible).

The former president’s statement is a reminder he didn’t merely want an investigation into baseless claims of widespread voter fraud.


"NRPLUS MEMBER ARTICLEWhile tens of millions of normal Americans were watching the NFC Championship Game on Sunday night, former president Donald Trump issued a statement in which he declared that former vice president Mike Pence had the power to overturn the 2020 election and should have done so:

If the Vice President (Mike Pence) had “absolutely no right” to change the Presidential Election results in the Senate, despite fraud and many other irregularities, how come the Democrats and RINO Republicans, like Wacky Susan Collins, are desperately trying to pass legislation that will not allow the Vice President to change the results of the election? Actually, what they are saying, is that Mike Pence did have the right to change the outcome, and they now want to take that right away. Unfortunately, he didn’t exercise that power, he could have overturned the Election!

Where to begin? For starters, Trump is wrong about the Electoral Count Act (which lawmakers are trying to reform in the legislation his statement references). It gives Congress the authority to settle disputes between competing slates of Electoral College votes. However, no state had any legitimate reason to overturn Biden’s victory, and none had sent competing slates of electors.

Trump’s legal advisers also did not argue in the run-up to January 6 last year that the Electoral Count Act gave Pence the authority to reject electoral votes. They argued that Mike Pence should deem the Electoral Count Act unconstitutional, set it aside, and then do one of three things: (1) invalidate electoral votes and declare Trump the winner, (2) invalidate electoral votes and send the election to the House of Representatives, or (3) delay the counting of electoral votes in order to give states more time to investigate baseless claims of widespread voter fraud.

If Congress were to revise the Electoral Count Act and, among other changes, make it explicit that the vice president’s role is purely ceremonial, that would not in any way be a concession that Mike Pence — or Al Gore or Kamala Harris, for that matter — had or has the unilateral authority to “overturn the Election!”


While Trump’s latest statement badly botched the facts, it did serve as a useful reminder that, contrary to some revisionist history, Trump had in fact pressured Pence to reject electoral votes and not simply delay the count."

By joj - Jan. 31, 2022, 9:14 p.m.
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Didn't Trump just admit to criminal behavior?

What am I missing here?

By metmike - Jan. 31, 2022, 10:37 p.m.
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Your not missing a thing about this joj!

By TimNew - Feb. 1, 2022, 6:12 a.m.
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More "New News" from the investigation?  Prior to this announcement, were you really unaware that Trump had pressured Pence to over turn the election?  It was all over the news on Jan 6th and for weeks after.  Pence was praised by "never Trumpers" for weeks.     Sorry you missed all that, but I can't imagine how.

Also. there is a legal, constitutionally based argument to give Pence, as the president of the Senate,  the authority to do so. That is the reasoning behind the current discussion about rewriting some of the Electoral College rules. So the question of "illegal" is null.

How's the investigation going into how a group of disorganized rabble managed to breach the nerve center of our government so easily?   That would be new news.

By mcfarm - Feb. 1, 2022, 7:42 a.m.
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"How's the investigation going into how a group of disorganized rabble"   this is from Tim............. the answer, and, everyone on both sides knows this full well, the only reason it even made a ripple of news is that  is one person involved and after that just mountains of TDS.

By metmike - Feb. 1, 2022, 1:33 p.m.
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You guys keep defending the WRONG side of this issue because the far right controls your minds, including Trump himself for some of you.

Any points that say something bad about TDS for some of you.

In 4 years here and many thousands of posts, I don't remember one post(and our archives don't either) every criticizing anything a republican did.... for you guys......always just defending and attacking the other side.

This is what people in a cult do that follow their high priests.

And Tim likes to repeat that metmike is anything but objective.

Think what you want but my reason to be here is this:

All I can do is repeat the good advice that you continue to oppose with the exact opposite actions:

By mcfarm - Feb. 1, 2022, 1:44 p.m.
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not defending a side but commenting on our  one sided every body run to one side of the ship over hysterical light on facts got to be pounding on Trump all the time media operates. Wow wonder what the coverage would of been if Trump hired Russian and Hillary to do what they did to Trump before and after his election to Biden. No I really don not wonder, just look at the coverage of out sitting President in bed with Hunter and the chief of Chinese security to the tune of 60 million dollars

By metmike - Feb. 1, 2022, 1:54 p.m.
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"not defending a side but commenting on our  one sided every body run to one side of the ship"


Again, your response is to accuse the OTHER side of doing Exactly  WHAT YOU AND YOUR SIDE DOES, including right now.........which is proving it and exactly after I described it to a tee.

By metmike - Feb. 1, 2022, 1:55 p.m.
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You will note........again, that you think we are having a debate but I'm analyzing your behavior based on objective facts!

Ideally, you would see this and change it for the better........but that's always going to be your choice.

By metmike - Feb. 1, 2022, 8:09 p.m.
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Trump directly involved in plans to seize voting machines -reports

WASHINGTON, Feb 1 (Reuters) - Then-President Donald Trump was directly involved in efforts to use national security agencies to seize voting machines after his 2020 election loss, pressing his lawyer to make queries as advisers drafted two versions of a related executive order, media reports said.

The New York Times, citing three people familiar with the matter, reported on Monday that Trump directed Rudy Giuliani to call the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to determine whether it could legally take control of voting machines in key swing states.

That effort came amid two previously reported attempts to seize the machines: Trump's outside advisers pressing to have the Defense Department confiscate them and Trump asking Attorney General Bill Barr whether the Justice Department could take them. Barr immediately rejected the suggestion, the Times said.

Trump's advisers drafted a second version of an executive order directing the DHS to take control of voting equipment, the Times and CNN reported. The first version, reported last month by Politico, called on the Defense Department to take the machines.

The New York Times outlined a direct attempt by Trump to push the effort, citing people who were briefed by those involved or who had firsthand knowledge.

Voting machines and most other aspects of U.S. elections are overseen by state and local officials. Federal involvement in elections generally falls to the Justice Department, which addresses matters like civil rights issues or violence, and the Federal Election Commission, which enforces campaign finance law.

Representatives for Trump could not immediately be reached for comment on the reports.

The reports were the latest to highlight the outgoing Republican president and his advisers' efforts to overturn the 2020 election, which Democrat Joe Biden won by more than 7 million ballots and 306 to 232 votes in the Electoral College.

Trump continues to falsely state he lost the November 2020 election due to widespread fraud despite multiple court losses and audits confirming Biden's victory.

The reports come as a U.S. House of Representatives committee investigating Trump supporters' deadly Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol is ramping up its efforts before public hearings expected this spring. Trump on Tuesday issued a statement again blasting the House probe.

Trump was impeached in the House but acquitted in the Senate on a charge of inciting the Capitol attack.

On Saturday, he told a rally in Texas that he would consider pardoning people convicted in the attack -- which left five dead and scores of police officers injured -- if he were to regain the White House in 2024.

More than 165 people have pleaded guilty to a variety of federal charges, out of more than 725 people arrested, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia.

Trump remains popular among Republicans. His main fundraising committee on Monday announced it had more than $100 million in cash, although donations have slowed. Some Republicans, however, have drawn the line at pardons for the attackers.

Separately, some documents that the National Archives has turned over to House investigators from the Trump White House had been taped together, according to CNN. The Archives, in a statement, confirmed that some records it received were "paper records that had been torn up by former President Trump."

By metmike - Feb. 1, 2022, 8:12 p.m.
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Some Trump White House records handed over to January 6 committee had been ripped up

 (CNN)Some Trump White House documents that have been handed over to the House select committee investigating January 6 had to be taped back together by National Archives staff because they had been ripped up, the agency said in a statement.

The Archives, in response to questions from CNN, said that "some of the Trump presidential records received by the National Archives and Records Administration included paper records that had been torn up by former President Trump."

Exclusive: Mike Pence's former chief of staff testifies in House January 6 investigation

The agency did not explain how officials know former President Donald Trump himself ripped up the records, but the Archives pointed to previous reporting that White House records management staff had to tape together torn-up documents during the Trump-era.

"These were turned over to the National Archives at the end of the Trump Administration, along with a number of torn-up records that had not been reconstructed by the White House," the Archives said in the statement. "The Presidential Records Act requires that all records created by presidents be turned over to the National Archives at the end of their administrations."

Exclusive: Mike Pence's former chief of staff testifies in House January 6 investigation

The Archives pointed to media reports dating back to 2018. That's when Politico reported that the White House employed staff whose jobs partly entailed reconstructing White House communications and documents that crossed Trump's desk that he would tear up.

A spokesperson for Trump did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

A spokesperson for the select committee declined to comment.

The committee recently began receiving the documents from the Archivesafter winning a court battle that went all the way to the Supreme Court. Trump had sued to keep the documents secret, citing executive privilege. The Biden administration chose not to support Trump's privilege claims, and the courts sided with the committee, allowing the documents to be released.

What you need to know about Trump's weekend of January 6 whitewashing and election lies

Committee members have said they are still in the process of poring over hundreds of pages of documents as part of the release. While they have not disclosed all of what the documents reveal, court filings have shown the documents include White House call logs, visitor logs, drafts of speeches and three handwritten notes of top advisers. 

The committee has said the documents are a key part of their investigation.

"We're glad the Supreme Court ruled in our favor that we may have access to them" Democratic Rep. Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, who chairs the panel, told CNN earlier this month once the committee started receiving the documents it requested. "And we look forward to the National Archives getting them to us."

By metmike - Feb. 1, 2022, 8:20 p.m.
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For those trying to delude themselves with the far right MISinformation that this is just another witch hunt, like the Mueller investigation.

No, its the complete opposite:

This was the comprehensive coverage here of the Mueller fraud, making up stuff:

This current investigation is based on things that REALLY DID happen and with gobs of REAL evidence. Authentic, objective evidence that we didn't know about and is being uncovered.

And we are getting to see the evidence(vs Mueller hiding everything for 2+ years).

In fact...........that's the point.

Americans deserve to know the truth about this.

By joj - Feb. 1, 2022, 9:06 p.m.
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Tim you asked was “ I aware “….

I was certainly aware that Trump was a criminal.  I’ve been aware of that since BEFORE he threw his hat in the political ring.

What is new here is that he is confessing to it in broad daylight, although he might be unaware of it.

By metmike - Feb. 1, 2022, 10:53 p.m.
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Here are 122 million reasons Donald Trump *is* the Republican Party

 (CNN)Here's a stunning fact: Former President Donald Trump ended 2021 with $122 million left to spend in his various political accounts. 

That's not only exponentially more than any previous former president but is also more than double the $56 million that the Republican National Committee had left in the bank at the end of last year.


The massive financial disparity between Trump and the national party committee is unprecedented. And it functions as a reminder that the Republican Party is Donald Trump right now. 

 Everything flows through him: money, endorsements and policy (such as it is). Trump is the sun; everyone and everything -- from the RNC to congressional leaders to potential 2024 contenders -- revolves around him. 

Which is a scary thought for the party given Trump's demonstrated unpredictability. Just this past weekend, he suggested that if he wins the presidency again, he would consider pardoning those arrested for the insurrection at the US Capitol on January 6, 2021.

 There's also the fact that Trump has shown -- time and time again -- that he looks out for himself first, second and third. If something that is good for him also happens to be good for the broader Republican Party, that's totally fine -- but it's simply not his first thought.

 The Point: Republicans have gone in too deep with Trump to even have the possibility of walking away now. The best they can do is hang on for the ride.

metmike: Hopefully, this opinion is wrong. What do you guys think?

By TimNew - Feb. 2, 2022, 5:10 a.m.
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I really enjoy these exchanges  :-)

MM and JOJ treating old news as "Blockbuster revelation" while ignoring pertinent legal facts and calling anyone who see's this for what it is as "deluded".

The real fun will start when all this ends and no one of consequence faces legal repercussion. See, Trump is now a private citizen. They face a much higher standard to bring a case.  Real evidence of real laws being broken in a real court, unlike the sham impeachments of the last few years when the dems in congress could invent what they "needed".  Unless of course, they "create" some criteria for another impeachment.  Certainly not beyond believable, but definitly beyond ridiculous.

But I sit and watch as many of the same people who have heard, and believed, for decades that "If we don't do something now, the climate will be irrersably damaged" now believe for years that "This is the beginning of the end for Trump. He's going to jail!!".

Now MM,    I know you are not in the former,  but you are certainly a member of the latter for at least the last year.  

By metmike - Feb. 3, 2022, 1:34 a.m.
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House Democrat: Trump 'absolutely' tampering with Jan. 6 witnesses

Rep. Pete Aguilar (D-Calif.), who sits on the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 insurrection, on Wednesday said that former President Trump is “absolutely” tampering with witnesses by offering possible pardons to defendants.

CNN’s Brianna Keilar asked Aguilar on “New Day" if Trump was tampering with witnesses by offering to pardon defendants involved in the Jan. 6 riots.

"Absolutely,” the California Democrat replied. “And I think the question is more for my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, you know, where are they? Do they support this? When is enough, enough? When a mob is chanting 'hang Mike Pence,' it wasn't enough. When the former president asked Brad Raffensperger to find him 11,000 votes, it wasn't enough.”

“Now he's, you know, dangling pardons, if he gets back in office, for individuals; will that be enough? Or will there be more collective amnesia? You know, I just don't know where the floor is these days on that side of the aisle,” he added.

Hundreds of people have been charged or are facing charges in connection to the storming of the Capitol that happened on Jan. 6, 2021, in which supporters of the former president tried to stop Congress from certifying the 2020 presidential election results.

During a rally last weekend in Texas, Trump said that if he ran again for president and won, he would treat those who participated in the Capitol riot “fairly” and would pardon them if need be.

Robert Jenkins, who represents several clients associated with the Jan. 6 riot, told CNN’s “New Day” on Wednesday that he did not believe Trump’s offering to pardon defendants rose to the severity of witness tampering but said, “he is certainly putting his fingers on [the] scales.”

Several top Republicans have already vocally disagreed with Trump’s comments to pardon Jan. 6 defendants. During an interview with CBS’s “Face the Nation,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) called the move “inappropriate.”

“No, I don't want to send any signal that it was OK to defile the Capitol,” Graham said when asked if he agreed with Trump’s move.

“I think it's inappropriate. ... I don't want to do anything that would make this more likely in the future,” he added.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) also told reporters on Tuesday that he disagreed with such a move.

"I would not be in favor of shortening any of the sentences for any of the people who pleaded guilty to crimes," the Senate GOP leader said.

“The election of 2020 was decided Dec. 14 of 2020 when the Electoral College certified the winner of the election. What we saw here on January the 6th was an effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power from one administration to another, which has never happened before in our country,” McConnell added.

Trump slammed Graham’s comments during an interview with Newsmax on Tuesday night, calling one of his top Senate allies a “RINO,” an acronym that stands for “Republican In Name Only.”         

"Well, Lindsey Graham's wrong. I mean, Lindsey's a nice guy, but he's a RINO. Lindsey's wrong,” Trump said.

Graham defended his comments in a statement on Wednesday, saying, “All Americans are entitled to have a speedy trial and their day in court, but those who actively engage in violence for whatever political cause must be held accountable and not be forgiven.”

By TimNew - Feb. 3, 2022, 3:35 a.m.
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House Democrat: Trump 'absolutely' tampering with Jan. 6 witnesses

More opinion and conjecture, with no basis in the law.  But there's a long history of dems redefining words and phrases, including "witness tampering".  During the 1st sham impeachment,   Trump twittered insults as the former Ukraine Ambassodor Marie Yavanovitch testified about irrelevant personell issues as the dems clung to every meaningless word she uttered.    Schiff held up the hearings to proclaim the severity of this "witness tampering"  <GUFFAW>..  Talk about political mispreceptions...

It's all comedy folks, driven by a party desperate to avoid the beating they are likely to face in the upcomming midterms, and they find themselves with no other "weapons".

By mcfarm - Feb. 3, 2022, 6:54 a.m.
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I don't understand why we are so skeptical of all this hot air?  Schiff. "trump absolutely colluded with Russia" Schiff, "we will present our eye witness next week"  that other creep form California, Swalwell, being bedded by a Chinese spy and where is he today, why on the foreign affairs committee with top secret access of course. 

By metmike - Feb. 3, 2022, 5:17 p.m.
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Just keep defending Trump and pretending that this is just like when they accused Trump of colluding with Russia. You've already convinced yourselves that it's just like this:

It isn't.

I'll just wait for the facts of the investigation to show us what happened and post them here.

By WxFollower - Feb. 3, 2022, 5:25 p.m.
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By metmike - Feb. 3, 2022, 5:43 p.m.
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Funny Larry!

By mcfarm - Feb. 3, 2022, 7:46 p.m.
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yes Larry I get it. Cnn reporting about the burning , rapes, riots and murders in US cities.....very funny indeed

By TimNew - Feb. 4, 2022, 2:03 a.m.
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Larry, I am assuming you are posting a meme depicting the MSM response to the "mostly peaceful riots" of  2020?  Seems about right  :-)  Isn't it ironic that the only real attention that was given to those riots involved a young man shooting a few of the rioters who attacked him.  As you said, "Nothing to see here". LOL

MM,  I am not defending Trump.  I have actually been critical of him several times of late.  In this instance, as has often been the case of late, I am pointring out your "breathless" reaction to the "latest" from the Jan 6th commision.

I can just about hear you now..

"THANK GAWD FOR THIS INVESTIGATION OR WE'D HAVE NEVER KNOWN THAT TRUMP URGED PENCE TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION RESULTS!!!!!"---   which has been your reaction to just about every bit of old news this "cutting  edge" investigation has produced. "OMG, did you see all the people who urged Trump to end the riot?!?!?!?!?!?"

As I pointed out,  this latest was well known and well documented since Jan 6th.  I also pointed out that there is a valid constitutional argument that Pence had the power to do so, which has prompted the latest discussion to change the rules.   These are not a defense of Trump. They are simply facts that any objective observer would note.

Hows that "Blockbuster" revelation about the forged electoral documents coming?   These things take time,  right?  LOL

As I've said many times,  I'd like this investigation to explain how a disorganized group of jerks was able to breach the nerve center of our government on such an important day. But that won't happen.  This investigation is not meant to uncover the truth. 

McConnell cracks door to Electoral Count Act reform- POLITICO


The biggest move came from Senate Minority Leader McConnell, who Democrats theorize is merely trying to distract from their work on far more comprehensive election reform. Still, the GOP leader said in a brief interview that he would be open to entertaining changes to the 1887 law, which allows members of Congress to dispute election results.

“It obviously has some flaws. And it is worth, I think, discussing,” McConnell said Wednesday.