By metmike - May 5, 2022, 1:39 p.m.
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Thanks much for bringing this up mcfarm, so that it can be interpreted with objective science.

1. The study found an increase in myocarditis (temporary inflammation of the heart) of 25% in those getting the vaccine compared to not getting the vaccine as a scientifically significant number. 

2. I agree in that it means its FOR REAL and that we can have confidence that it wasn't within the range associated with error bars that determine the amount of uncertainty in the results.

3. So what is the increase of 25% in actual numbers?  From the actual study: Among more than 2.5 million vaccinated HCO members who were 16 years of age or older, 54 cases met the criteria for myocarditis.The estimated incidence per 100,000 persons who had received at least one dose of vaccine was 2.13 cases

As you  can see, 25% of a really tiny number is 1/4 of a really tiny number.

4. So what would be the risk of people in this age range of getting myocarditis if they got the actual disease COVID(which the vaccine irrefutable protects against the severe cases that cause symptoms like myocarditis)? 

"Before COVID-19 the incidence of myocarditis was between one and 10 cases per 100,000 people per year. Rates are highest in males between 18 and 30 years old. Interestingly, most cases of myocarditis in the highest risk group are in otherwise healthy and active people.

According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the risk of myocarditis after infection with COVID-19 is much higher, at 146 cases per 100,000." See link below.

5. So we have 2.13 cases  of myocarditis after the vaccine(per 100,000 people), a 25% increase in the pre vaccine expected number compared to 146(per 100,000 people) cases after getting COVID. This is 69 times the number AFTER the vaccine that includes what would be expected with no vaccine added to it!!! That's basically a 6,900% increase in myocarditis from getting COVID. 

This statement in the article is blatant DISinformation of the worst kind: "Published last week in the Nature journal Scientific Reports, the study found no association with COVID infections, however."

The reason they found no they weren't studying COVID infections side affects!!!

If I did a study on reactions to drug A and never looked at reactions to drug Z because the study was not on that, and somebody claimed the study showed no association with drug Z that would be DISHONEST!

Or if I was reporting the results of a study of the affect on dogs of flea and tick bites and somebody reported the results as showing that this study showed that there was no affects on cats, on the basis of there being no cats in the study..........that's intentional DISinformation! 

Here is the actual science on COVID and myocarditis and why COVID IS A MAJOR CAUSE OF IT:

What is myocarditis?

"Myocarditis is an inflammation of the heart muscle most commonly caused by a virus like influenza, coxsackie, hepatitis or herpes(or COVID). Other causes include bacteria, fungi, toxins, chemotherapy and autoimmune conditions.

Some viruses infect heart muscle and cause direct injury to the heart, while others cause heart damage indirectly through the immune system. Activation of the immune system in response to an infection triggers the release of chemicals in the body called cytokines, which help clear infections. In some cases, the levels of cytokines rise to unusually high levels to produce a “cytokine storm” that causes damage to heart muscle."

So this is a complete bs spun MIS-interpretation trying to trick people into thinking that the best measure to avoid the highest risk of getting myocarditis is actually causing it.

This would be like me telling you that drinking 8 glasses of water causes dehydration because it causes you to pee more often and lose fluids. 

BTW, we already knew all this above and this study is actually very powerful evidence that people of all ages should get vaccinated because of the extremely low risk of myocarditis compared to getting it with severe COVID.

By metmike - May 5, 2022, 1:49 p.m.
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You came to the exact right place to get the objective, authentic science on this!

Since I took the time to do this for you, can you do me one small favor?

Please spread the truth here to all your friends that get their information from the same sites that you go to which say the opposite!

By mcfarm - May 5, 2022, 7:11 p.m.
Like Reply   here is another from FDA on J and J vax and blood clots.

Don't know how or why or vaxx related but I now have aphib. Had to  ekg, stress test, heart cath to decide if blockage. None found, now have to wait for next appointment for shock therapy or ablation procedure. Also put on blood thinners to help avoid clots and another pill

By metmike - May 5, 2022, 9:20 p.m.
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"Don't know how or why or vaxx related but I now have aphib"

Sorry to hear that mcfarm,

I've had A fib for 35 years and take Tenormin for it, which works great. The chances that the vaxx caused it  and you still have it are infinitesimally small.

If you really want to develop a new heart condition........GET COVID.

The extreme rule when it comes to protecting your heart when it comes to COVID.

COVID = Really bad

COVID vaccine= Good(because it greatly reduces chances of heart damage from COVID by hundreds of times. 

It's obvious that I can show you hundreds of studies, data and science and you still want to believe the conspiracy theories. If the vax had caused your A fib, it would have been gone after the 1st 28 days anyway.

At least you can get the truth here from somebody that you know that you can trust. 

Keep going to the same sources that are filling your head with COVID(vaxx) DISinformation if you don't want the truth to become part of your learned intelligence!

Risks of myocarditis, pericarditis, and cardiac arrhythmias associated with COVID-19 vaccination or SARS-CoV-2 infection


This is the largest study to date of acute cardiac outcomes after SARS-CoV-2 vaccination or infection, the first to compare the risk of cardiac events between different vaccine products and SARS-CoV2 infection and the first to investigate the association between cardiac events and the ChAdOx1 vaccine.

Our findings are relevant to the public, clinicians and policy makers. First, there was an increase in the risk of myocarditis within a week of receiving the first dose of both adenovirus and mRNA vaccines, and a higher increased risk after the second dose of both mRNA vaccines. In contrast, we found no evidence of an increase in the risk of pericarditis or cardiac arrhythmias following vaccination, except in the 1–28 days following a second dose of the mRNA-1273 vaccine. Second, in the same population, there was a greater risk of myocarditis, pericarditis and cardiac arrhythmia following SARS-CoV-2 infection. Third, the increased risk of myocarditis after vaccination was higher in persons aged under 40 years. We estimated extra myocarditis events to be between 1 and 10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection.

By GunterK - May 5, 2022, 9:32 p.m.
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Hi mcfarm,

If I remember correctly, I have been frequenting this forum since the early 1990s. I don’t come here much anymore, but I happened to notice your post… and I do remember you being a regular poster during the old days.

Reading about your medical issues made me sad. I most certainly hope that you get better soon.

Just a few days ago, a highly-ranked German medical facility stated that, according to their studies, serious “Covid vaxx injuries” in Germany are 40 times more frequent than officially reported. That’s in Germany… I don’t have equivalent numbers for over here.

I am mentioning this, because their study also contained some good news. These scientists stated that in 80% of their case studies, these vaxx related illnesses go away within 3 to 6 months.

But we don’t want to wait that long…. I will say a prayer for you, mcfarm.  God bless you..

By metmike - May 5, 2022, 10 p.m.
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You're a trip, man. 

I figured that you couldn't resist pouncing on somebody vulnerable here that goes to  similar blatant COVID vaxx DISinformation site to continue to try to sabotage the effort here to show people the truth using authentic science and facts.

Giving us your history of coming here since the early 1990's(MarketForum was created in 1999) and that you don't come here much anymore, trying to present yourself as the poor victim as you've done dozens of times when I confront your blatant DISinformation doesn't fool me.

Almost all your posts here in the past year have been DISinformation or attempts to brainwash people who you think will believe it..

If you were a sincere guy, then you know what this forum is all about and you would at least try to focus on positive contributions and not do stuff like this:

This was your most recent attempt to brainwash people here, not even a month ago and I busted your dishonest chops trying to push your anti Uraine propaganda from a well known, pro Russia, anti Ukraine propaganda source that Info wars has on all the time.

Why do you continue to do this here Gunter?

Do I really think that you're even capable of reforming to be an honest poster making positive contributions like you once did before the far right took over your brain?

Only Gunter can control Gunter's posts here. 

It's extremely unlikely, based on recent stuff like that above and  this below(and you seem to be getting WORSE  not better):

Hundreds of COVID MISinformation posts in 2021 that all came from the far right. This was just one of the threads pushing the KING of DISinformation, Alex Jones(over 100 links) and others. I spent many hundreds of hours correcting you  with the truth in 2021....that ALL came from the far right.

You posted on 5 different conspiracy theories here...that all came from the far right:

You have every opportunity to reform yourself, Gunter but this last post tells us you are the exact same Gunter.

By GunterK - May 5, 2022, 10:19 p.m.
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Here is a man  (mcfarm)… a man I have never met personally…. but I have read his forum posts for many, many years… and after many years of doing so, it seems like I know this man a little bit.

The description of his medical issues saddened me. From the few words he wrote, I can feel the anguish this is causing him.

All I tried to do is lift his spirit a little bit….

And the above is what you have to say??????

By metmike - May 5, 2022, 10:35 p.m.
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And that's exactly what makes you such a sad sack Gunter!

As I said, you used somebody that you saw was vulnerable because of their heart issue that they mistakenly think could have been caused by the vaccine to pounce on him with your propaganda to capitalize on his thoughts with your goal coming get people to believe COVID(vaxx) DISinformation, anti Ukraine DISinformation, Stolen election DISinformation as well as several other conspiracy theories in the past that you get from all your far right DISinformation sources.

Dude, I know you like the back of my hand from your numerous hundreds of posts in the last year.

Gunter paraphrased: I really care about you mcfarm ........oh by the way:

"Just a few days ago, a highly-ranked German medical facility stated that, according to their studies, serious “Covid vaxx injuries” in Germany are 40 times more frequent than officially reported. That’s in Germany… I don’t have equivalent numbers for over here.

I am mentioning this, because their study also contained some good news. These scientists stated that in 80% of their case studies, these vaxx related illnesses go away within 3 to 6 months."

As if the real reason that you mentioned this is because  it's "good news" for mcfarm, because it means an 80% chance that his heart condition from the COVID vaccine will go away within 3 to 6 months.(his last COVID vax was likely more than 6 months ago).

One would have to be extremely naive to think you were mentioning the study to cheer mcfarm up with good news, especially knowing that you are the king of conniving to try to sneak your DISinformation stuff in here. 

By GunterK - May 5, 2022, 11:44 p.m.
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this is directly from me to you.  Regardless of how some people here try to dishonestly malign my words….  I was trying to lift your spirits!

here is my point.

Nobody here knows whether you got these illnesses from the vaxx or not… nobody here can honestly claim that you did not get them from the vaxx (unless they did a major medical diagnosis of your situation)

My reason for mentioning this German study is simply this….. if you did indeed get these things from the vaxx, there is a high probability that all these issues will go away in a few months. This is not disinformation. This comes from highly respected scientists and their analysis of existing data..

Don’t be discouraged!  Don’t give up hope!  

God bless

By metmike - May 6, 2022, 12:53 a.m.
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Again Gunter,

mcfarm did not just get the vaxx and if you really cared and were paying attention you would have noticed that he DID get a medical work up that included an EKG, then a Stress test and then a  heart cathode test  that included checking for a blot clot but they found nothing.

Please stop the attempts to scare and brainwash people with your  DISinformation trying to make them afraid that the vaccine might have done this to him(and could happen to others), when, at this stage it's extraordinarily unlikely.

5 Things You May Not Know about AFib

While it’s more common in people over 60, AFib can occur in anyone at any time and any age. According to the CDC, an estimated 2.7 to 6.1 million people in the United States have AFib.

Out of those 2.7 to 6.1 million with AFib guess how many got it from the COVID vaccinaton?

An extraordinarily tiny fraction/%. 

This will be the last time that I ask you to stop using mcfarm's vulnerable condition to scare him(and others) into believing in something that has is extremely unlikely because of the same self serving agenda that you've had the past year here.

You were warned many dozens of times last year. 

I warned you a month ago, again when you were presenting the anti Ukraine propaganda using an Info Wars pro Russia/anti Ukraine source......that you pretended that you didn't use here anymore.

This is your last warning in this thread. No more enabling you if you continue. 

The smartest thing that people with A Fib and heart conditions can do is to make sure they get vaccinated. mcfarm is at a much higher risk of dying from COVID because of his newly developed condition.

The complete opposite of your usual DISinformation Gunter.

Post something other than DISinformation Gunter..........or be suspended for 6 months this time.

By metmike - May 6, 2022, 1:36 a.m.
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I'm sure that you have a good cardiologist that will give you helpful advice for your A Fib.

As I mentioned, I've had it since before our oldest son was born in 1988.

I take Tenormin and it helps alot.

Also, I've had worn several Holter moniters that did a wonderful job on picking up on it and detecting the kind of A Fib that I have.

In fact, I remember my first Holter moniter because I was wearing it in the birthing room when our son was born in 1988!

The technology has really advanced since then and now, you can wear it for an entire week and write down/record sensations/events/symptoms in a 1 week long journal, as they happen.

I think they have one that goes as long as 30 days but a week is plenty long in most cases.

You mail it off to a place that reads it and they can tell some very helpful things about your beating heart. The company was called Rhythm. 

This can help them decide on what medicine would best help you. They can try a couple different ones.

You've already had some of the other tests but I would think the Holter monitor would be on the list. If not, ask your doctor for one.

Good luck and keep us informed on your condition please. It's very treatable with all sorts of meds, not just the Tenormin that I take(which is a beta blocker)

You might want to stop caffiene and hopefully you don't smoke but life style changes can also play a huge beneficial role.

I'm assuming too,  that they already did blood tests to rule out  low thyroid or an imbalance in your electrolytes. Balanced electrolytes are very important to your heart!

Have they tried any meds on you yet??

Atrial fibrillation

From the other page:

5 Things You May Not Know about AFib

Holter monitor

This is the drug that works for me but you probably will need something different based on whats going on with your heart.

What is atenolol, and what is it used for?

By mcfarm - May 6, 2022, 7:24 a.m.
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Did not ever intend to start something between 2 of my favorite people on this forum. Gunter thanks a bunch for the kind words. MM, breathe deep, no matter what, stats, advice or information anyone gives its the receivers obligation on what to do with it.  We are grown ups. In America, up until the last few years we never had a the elites making every decision for us including putting a substance of some sort right into our bodies. Personal responsibility, please.  and no I never would think Gunter would give harmful info on purpose. Sorry for adding that part of my story because you guys are more important.

By metmike - May 6, 2022, 8:14 a.m.
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thanks mcfarm!

My sincere concerns  go beyond the health of our bodies here.

Gunter wants to get the MINDS of vulnerable people hooked on his blatant DISinformation and propaganda.

He's constantly using disingenuous ploys to take advantage of the vulnerable because he's a wolf in sheeps clothing if there ever was one.

His convincing ploys are effective on his targets but as the Shepard here, my obligation is to protect the sheep.

Don’t worry about me being upset over him mcfarm, I’m totally cool, living in the most awesome time of human history, taking full advantage of the wonderful tools it affords us here without hating anybody.

That includes giving us  the research tools to be  able to effectively identify  the wolves that lurk amongst us conniving around to get into the heads of sheep.

My harsh words for Gunter are nothing personal against him. I'm just identifying who he is to everybody here in my usual expressive analytical style.

The reason that it seems so shocking to some is because when I reveal the wolf, it’s impossible for the sheep who love him as one of them, to believe so they think that it has to be a product of the Shepard‘s animosity.

Nope. I’m just showing you who Gunter really is, identifying his (obvious-to me)  DISinformation ploys and confronting him with authentic truths and science.

By metmike - May 8, 2022, 2:43 a.m.
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I was thinking of another potential element because my heart was doing backflips tonight even with the meds and I think it from being dehydrated more than usual.

I have a bladder issue that causes me to pee around 15 times on some days so I go around dehydrated much of the time, which causes the heart issue to get worse .

i only had around 1 glass of water all day and added another glass the last hour and it’s helped. ….of course that means peeing half a dozen times tonight but I pee in a bucket next to the bed so no big deal.
just mentioning it as something that can make it worse or better for you.
every little thing can help and sometimes you’ll discover an extremely effective treatment.

my son in law and grandson want to go to a Michigan football game next September and I can’t go that long without peeing, so it looks like time to break out the depends underwear.

keep us posted on what the additional tests find and your condition, please.

By mcfarm - May 8, 2022, 7:47 a.m.
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big yes on the prostate, bladder thing here. Did finally have the green light surgery which was a big help on the flow but still get up a lot. do not drink enough water.

By metmike - May 8, 2022, 12:30 p.m.
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Thanks mcfarm,

My heart doctor never mentioned anything about drinking water.

My Dad had 2 surgeries to scrape his prostate. He still had to pee numerous times at night and it always messed up his sleep.

I sleep on a mattress on the floor and just lean over and pee in a bucket, then go back to sleep. 

My wife was not thrilled at the doesn't affect her 1 iota but it was "the thought" of somebody doing this unacceptable thing that bothered her.

I've leaked some outside the bucket but over each  year, it's getting me many hundreds of hours of extra needed restorative rest and she sleeps on her queen size bed with the dog and has no idea when I'm using my pee bucket. I just empty it out in the toilet every morning and sanitize it every once in a while. 

Crazy that urologists don't advice that to help people.

So the heart doctor is overlooking staying hydrated and the bladder doctor is overlooking how to manage overnight peeing conveniently.

That's actually a very common occurrence for most of our doctors, including my 87 year old  mother in law being on a dose of an antidepresent that's 4 times the appropriate dose for her age/weight for over a decade that we just discovered and it really messed up her neurotransmitter (serotonin)  and trying to wean her off, looks like its going to kill her in her current fragile and sick body with several chronic but not fatal conditions that needs a stable/healthy brain.