I love the constitution because it is a living breathing document that can be changed and NOT a crusty old static document that conservatives wish it was.  They tell us all the time.

Also, I'm not familiar with the authors you quoted.  Do they have millions of followers like the lying Fox News network?  Are they currently in a position of power like congressman, senator or governor?  

Thanks Tim!

"If they can pretend that people like Trump have perverted it"

In today's world, it's getting almost impossible for people to tell what's "pretend-land" and what's "real".

Most of the time, this is the rule that applies:

What your side pretends...............is real.

What the other side claims to be real.........is pretend.

To find out how to interpret this........go only to sources that tell you what your side's position is.

However, if Trump's extreme, stratospheric, mind mindbogglingly  blatant violation of the Constitution.......that stands out above all others in our history, along with all the evidence to indisputably prove that he abused his powers to try to overturn  this last presidential election...which was the most scrutinized and proven the most secure in election history......... is pretend, then this current climate optimum for life by every authentic scientific measure on this greening planet, featuring the best weather/climate in the last 1,000 years(the last time that it was this warm) must be a climate crisis (-:

++++++++++++++++++++++++

"There are 2 opposing sides on most political issues and the objective of the gatekeepers is absolutely NOT to inform with objective truths or science(like in the old days) but instead  to manufacture fake realities that will convince as many people as possible to join their righteous  side to do things like "save the planet" and fight the other "evil" side that is trying to sabotage their side because the other side is made out to be doing, exactly what they are doing..........lying their arses off for self serving political agenda."

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/88185/#88206

Really? lol, the most secure? What a joke. I was watching the vote count line chart for both Biden and Trump for Wisconsin and Michigan at 11:30 p.m. and both charts were curving upwards, looking very similar. I went to sleep and woke up at around 4:00 a.m. and Biden's chart was straight up. Trumps chart was still curving. Tell me or post a chart Tim that has ever gone straight up. It is, imho a physical impossibility unless something has been altered! So...Really... Trump didn't get any votes in that time period and Biden got them all? lol, lol, lol

rockitck,

You brought this up a month ago.

It was debunked again at that time, as it had, along with similar bs like it here 100+ times since the solid election win for Biden...........and 1 million times elsewhere at non Trump echo chambers since the election.

                Election night fraud            

                            Started by rockitck - July 26, 2022, 11:19 a.m.       

     https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87530/

You are welcome to be the first person that actually has legit evidence of this. 

In that case, Trump wasted 100's of millions of dollars and thousands  of people trying to find something legit on major election fraud.

They all found Zilch, Nata, Zero.

All he had to do was contact rockitck from MarketForum.

And today, the "constitution loving dems" are applauding Biden for circumventing congress to saddle every tax payer with a $7000+ Bill to pay off student loans for a population that largely consists pf people with graduate degrees.

I seem to recall something in the constitution saying something about Congress being responsible for spending. But of course, when you need to rip off your working taxpaying population to help motivate your non-working non-tax paying base , that constitution can be a real drag, right?

And JOJ,  shall I spend 13 seconds compiling a list of leftists who have condemned the constitution like the authors who were printed in the NYT, (the liberal bible)?   And don't you tell me you love it when you oppose just about everything it stands for.  Your "Living Breathing" liberal  label is pure BS.   It can be amended, certainly, but you liberals know that 99.99 percent of your agenda would never make it through the process.   So you want to do things like "stack the court" because 99.99% of your successes have been through judicial activism, which is why we now hear this court has a "political bias".  They actually rely on the damned constitution.  Or get liberal programs in place through executive orders, like today's examples.

However, if Trump's extreme, stratospheric, mind mindbogglingly  blatant violation of the Constitution

<GUFFAAWWW>. MM, you never fail to crack me up.

I realize that like many,  you have been convinced that any republican that questions is the results of an election is violating the constitution,  but I promise, it's really not.   I've  actually read it. I promise.

So, in as few words as possible, please tell me exactly how Trump violated the constitution?

I don't expect a reasonable answer,  but it will certainly be entertaining.

Thanks Tim,

Why ask a question, so that you can completely ignore the answer......again?

OK,  that was a rhetorical question.  Ignoring the legit evidence IS  your objective here. 

Here goes again and as you requested........just one example of violating the Constitution.

He abused his power as president to try to overturn the proven results of the 2020 presidential election almost every day for over 2 months in order to appoint himself as president.

Your convenient memory, no doubt skips over incidents like this, or interprets it to be something different than what the facts tell us it was:

Umm, we have a major problem here: "Trump Pressured GA Secretary of State to 'Find' Votes"

                15 responses |           

                Started by WxFollower - Jan. 3, 2021, 8:28 p.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/63694/

And before you try to mischaracterize me for the umpteenth time  as somebody that believes there was no election fraud because of the conclusive evidence that there was no WIDESPREAD, MAJOR fraud that could have amounted to anything but a minuscule amount of the votes Trump needed.........and the fraud goes both ways........is not always just democrats.

Here this is once again, me showing 10 times more REAL fraud from previous elections than all of Trumps high paid fraud manufacturing fraudsters   together could find.............the kind of fraud that was prosecuted because it had legit evidence.

Unlike all the completely made up fraud by Trump's corrupt companions that tried  to help Trump to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/71813/#71816

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/67047/#67106

This election had more investigations, legal challenges, recounts, audits and scrutiny than any others in history by an extremely wide margin. Nothing wrong in doing this with  most of them. Persuing those avenues is ok. 

However, this additional point is about how intensely scrutinized the election was and  longer than any other election in history.

If it were not the most secure, we should have also seen all that scrutiny yielding countless examples of election fraud.

That did not happen.

Because the election was solidly secure.

You and others here have had the opportunity to show otherwise for almost 2 years now.

During that time, all you've done is provide conspiracy theories, speculation, repeat false narratives and far right talking points/rhetoric as well as statements like from rockitck based on completely unsubstantiated claims of things that would have had to be recorded by somebody, some where at least one time in order to serve as evidence.

 But incredibly, after 2 years of being unable to do that, and still having no evidence, 10s of millions of republicans are convinced that Biden cheated and Trump should have won and the evidence is all being covered up.

Mostly because of sources like Trump and Fox news saying it's so and that's exactly what you guys want to believe.

Twelfth Amendment: Overview

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-12/twelfth-amendment-overview

"The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;–the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;–The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. "

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In addition:

14th Amendment

Section 3.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In addition, Trump was completely responsible for himself and inspired thousands of others in their role in the Insurrection: These Federal Statutes were violated

18 U.S. Code § 2383 -  Rebellion or insurrection

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

18 U.S. Code § 2384 -  Seditious conspiracy

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

18 U.S. Code § 2385 -  Advocating overthrow of Government

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

18 U.S. Code § 231 -  Civil disorders

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/231

1) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm or explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorderwhich may in any way or degree obstruct, delay, or adversely affect commerceor the movement of any article or commodity in commerceor the conduct or performance of any federally protected function; or

(2) Whoever transports or manufactures for transportation in commerce any firearm, or explosive or incendiary device, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be used unlawfully in furtherance of a civil disorder; or

(3) Whoever commits or attempts to commit any act to obstruct, impede, or interfere with any fireman or law enforcement officer lawfully engaged in the lawful performance of his official duties incident to and during the commission of a civil disorderwhich in any way or degree obstructs, delays, or adversely affects commerceor the movement of any article or commodity in commerceor the conduct or performance of any federally protected function—

18 U.S. Code § 241 -  Conspiracy against rights

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/241

"If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—"

18 U.S. Code § 1361 -  Government property or contracts

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1361

Whoever willfully injures or commits any depredation against any property of the United States, or of any department or agency thereof, or any property which has been or is being manufactured or constructed for the United States, or any department or agency thereof, or attempts to commit any of the foregoing offenses, shall be punished as follows:

18 U.S. Code § 1752 -  Restricted building or grounds

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1752

(a) Whoever—(1)

 knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so;

(2)

 knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions;

(3)

 knowingly, and with the intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, obstructs or impedes ingress or egress to or from any restricted building or grounds; or [1]

(4)

 knowingly engages in any act of physical violence against any person or property in any restricted building or grounds; [2]

(5)

 knowingly and willfully operates an unmanned aircraft system with the intent to knowingly and willfully direct or otherwise cause such unmanned aircraft system to enter or operate within or above a restricted building or grounds;

or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

metmike: For those wondering why the law has been so hard on these people that violently broke into the building and tried to stop the peaceful transition of power from Trump to Biden..............WONDER NO MORE!

Thanks very much Tim for inspiring me to provide this enlightening post for all of us to learn with.

No matta wha u say MetMike, Charts don't lie. And if they do...Please explain hot Brandons chart went straight up and Trumps chart was still curving. And what about the Republican auditors who were told to stand bak and not be able to audit the votes as they were being counted? 

rocktic. That chart is easily explained as MM assured us many times. Except he just will not admit what Mark Zuckerburg finally admitted. Seems our very corrupt FBI tapped twitter and facebook on the shoulder and suggested that Hunter's lap top was Russian disinformation just 3 weeks before the election. Seems facebook got the message and immediately hid what we all knew. The Bidens are as corrupt as any mafia family our country has ever seen. But the FBI had Hunter's lap top months and months earlier knew what was on it and then proceeded to collude and  to throw what the left just keeps saying was "the most secure election in history" They broke more laws than MM listed in his half hearted explanation to you earlier and yet the left still clings to the fair and honest election fairy tale. How many votes did they willingly change? Who the hell knows now, but we could of if our justice system was fair and non biased.

Thanks for the comments.

Words are just words.

I believe that we should all do everything possible to support words with documented evidence, data/facts, graphs, science and laws, including those used in previous threads and ignored repeatedly here. 

I encourage you to incorporate some of that into your words to support them and even more importantly,  to open your minds to the indisputable evidence that strongly contradicts  unsubstantiated words that you feel compelled to believe because of political affiliations and biased sources......using words. 

words are just words????  Well dear MM, Zuckerburg's words sure seemed to cause a lot of pause to our corrupt FBI but funny how they cannot change a fact of how corrupt they are and what they did to our election when they went totally into becoming the main arm of the dem party. And again just how many votes did they change with their "insurance policy"

, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.

Well MM, at least you put some thought into it. I appreciate that.   But you also defeated your own argument, and I appreciate that too.   By definition, there was no insurrection.   The idiots on the Jan 6th committee love to throw the term around, you know,, like your hero Adam Schiff, and their useful idiots love to hear it,  but Trump's own words on that day exonerate him.  

Even Snopes agrees.

 Did Trump Tell Supporters To Storm US Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021? |Snopes.com

After this, we’re going to walk down — and I’ll be there with you — we’re going to walk down, we’re going to walk down — anyone you want, but I think right here — we’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women. And we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness, you have to show strength, and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing, and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated — lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard today.

And if you want to make the case that questioning the results of an election is unconstitutional, I'll refer you to the 1st amendment. I'll also ask where all the investigations were during the "Not My President" years? I mean, other than the "Russian Collusion" Fiasco. 

And if you think there was anything illegal in Trump's conversation with the GA SecState, I've read the transcript word for word, and in spite of the on going investigations, no violations have been identified.  Asking someone to "find ballots" is not illegal, and the Fulton County audit found plenty of data to make that a reasonable request in spite of your refusal to accept the results.

In short, this dog and pony show will continue until Trump is out of the picture and it astounds me to no end that there are so many foolish enough to buy into it.  This is every bit as bad as the climate hoax and oddly enough, there is a huge overlap in the population of believers in both.

But we've gotten pretty far astray from the original topic, that liberals hate the constitution. We get confirmation of that fact every day.  Even our own JOJ confirms it with "I Love it because it's a living breathing document". IOW,  I hate the contents and love the fact that we can rewrite it.  The fact is, the constitution is a major impediment to the leftist agenda and anyone who respects it's content is an enemy.

And that is the one thing that can lead this country to the "Civil War" that so many speculate. A very large segment of the population took an oath, and took it seriously, to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. An even larger segment, who never took that oath, feels the same way.  And any effort to eliminate the constitution will be met with what ever force is required.

Go ahead with efforts to legally amend it all you want.  But the leftist's know they'll never be able to change it enough to suit their purposes through legal means. 

Thanks Tim,

A quote from 1 speech had nothing to do with why they were there, Tim.

Trump convinced them for 2+ months that Biden stole the election and that he won. There were INSPIRED by Trump to be there and his actions that day, as proven by the January 6th hearings, instead of trying to impede their threat by doing things like applying  metal detectors to them to remove weapons(he did the opposite because he said they were not there to hurt him) and he ignored  pleas from many people to call off the attack for hours, when all he had to do was tell them to go home but instead he watched the attack with glee.

And he clearly stated  that Mike Pence let them down by following the Constitution. If Pence had followed Trump, do you really think they would have been chanting "hang Mike Pence"? They got that idea from Trump.

The entire Insurrection IDEA was caused by Trump.  

But that one day is a minuscule fraction of the big picture damage that has been multiplied by many hundreds of days and with no end in sight.

Tens of millions of republicans are STILL convinced that Biden stole the election. The Insurrection mentality continues to exist in America, entirely because of Trump..........who continues to feed that into the brains of people who worship him.

This thread is just a tiny real world example of it. 

This one man has caused more divisiveness and hatred in America than anybody else in our country's history...by an extremely wide margin.

He has divided his own party and is tearing it apart. 

He has destroyed people's understanding and confidence in our most cherished part of the democracy..........elections.

If there was true justice, his penalty would be something that doesn't exist because his damage is orders of magnitude greater than any person in history. 

The death count isn't as great as 9-11, which was an off the charts atrocity but that event brought our country together as Americans like no other. 

Trump has ripped us apart as Americans........especially his own party and done the complete opposite, like no other person in history. 

Look what he does to people in his own party, like Liz Cheney! One of the greatest republicans ever with integrity and courage and following the Constitution and all the best republican agenda but holding Trump accountable for actions that he really did. 

But we have at least half the republican party enamored with Trump and supporting everything he says  because..........he says it. Not caring about authentic facts, ethics, evidence. If Trump says it.........it's the rule.

We live in the best age of human history with regards to technology, science, medicine, education/communication opportunities and more.

reasonstobegrateful

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/45623/

We should be cherishing that and each other. Working together to solve REAL problems that are solvable.

However, too much power is in the hands of brilliant but evil people with convincing sounding messages who are using that communication technology to control peoples minds.

Their objective is not to educate you to make you smarter........or to make the world a better place.

They want to indoctrinate you into their belief system, like a religion which embraces their self serving agenda.

There are still alot of good people out there of course but most people, clearly can't tell the difference or the bad people would not have so much power in the world. That and many people don't care, as long as the person/source tells them what they want to hear. 

 They disguise themselves to be something that appeals to you in a way that causes you to disengage critical thinking and trust them implicitly based on emotions and vulnerability.

Donald Trump is the quintessential example of this and is taking our country  in the exact wrong direction.

Forget all the horrible policies that Biden continues to impose on Americans that people use as a false equivalency to make Trump look good.

This is the biggest mistake of all.

There are plenty of great republicans that stand strong for conservative issues that are also ethical and in being that way, reject the diabolical Donald Trump, who will destroy the republican party.

yes, but lets be honest.  pubs won't defend the constitution.  the vast majority of pubs voted for the patriot act.  that was the biggest attack on the constitution since mc carthyism.  

and both dems and pubs support the agenda to track every dime in circulation.  this is a massive violation of privacy.  they use the excuse of money laundering.  but the agenda is really the fact that they are affraid they will miss a dime they could have taxed.  (govts spend way too much money, and does not have enough in taxes).  

So, MM is taking the stance "I don't care what he said, I know what the SOB meant".

This one man has caused more divisiveness and hatred in America than anybody else in our country's history...by an extremely wide margin.

And this is an absolute pant load,  but I am through with this useless debate. There's a reason a bee doesn't try to convince a fly that honey is better than crap. 

That's a good one , Tim - never heard that analogy.

  " And this is an absolute pant load,  but I am through with this useless debate. There's a reason a bee doesn't try to convince a fly that honey is better than crap"

all true Tim. But the worst of it is these people dancing around our constitution think they can pick and choose just who deserves some basic right such as due process. 

"So, MM is taking the stance "I don't care what he said, I know what the SOB meant".

No, actually it's the complete opposite..........AGAIN, Tim.

Tim is mischaracterizing metmike for the umpteenth time to use a strawman attack again, (so he can attack a position he wants Mike to have).

Let me repeat, only this time as usual elaborate excessively  so that YOU can ignore more crystal clarity.

A quote from 1 speech out of many hundreds(claiming that fraud stole the election from him) that contradicts the majority of what he stated in ALL the other speeches, that contradicts ALL of his actions and words for 2+ months leading up to the Insurrection, which were all documented and shown here and at the January 6th hearings.........does not negate the other 99.99% of his messages/actions to the people that were there to help him overturn the election results in favor of Trump.

It would be like a bank robber, contacting a dozen people to rob a bank.

For 2+ months he convinces/drills them on why they need to rob this bank and how easy it will be and when the perfect time will be to do it.

He focuses almost every waking moment for 2 months on preparing these people to rob the bank.

Then, a few hours before the robbery, he makes a speech in public that makes it sound like the 99.99% of the other stuff he worked so hard at for 2 months is not so because he knows how easy it is to manipulate gullible people that believe every word that he says that will use that speech to defend him..........and ignore the 99.99% of what really counts....THE AUTHENTIC FACTS AND EVIDENCE!

Then, after his robbery boys get busted for attempting to rob the bank for him based entirely on his continual messages to them for 2+ months......his people ignore everything except for the quote in 1 speech and claim that he's innocent and is actually the victim being targeted by corrupt people that want to mischaracterize his true, honest, peaceful and law abiding intentions based on the .01% of what really happened. 

Take that example and apply it to 25 million people and X the influence of the most powerful government person in the world and you have the current situation with Trump and the Insurrection.

And, again, the events of that day represent a minuscule amount of the PERMANENT damage done by Trump to this country which I also clearly explained and this conversation is an perfect example of. 

Comprende any of it this time, Tim?

So the main difference between us here, Tim is that you want to believe .01% of the evidence and I choose to believe the other 99.99%.

rockitck wants to believe 0% of the authentic facts and proven evidence and I believe the other 100%.

 For almost 2 years, the opportunity has existed for Trump's side to show authentic facts and evidence and completely failing to do that......... 25 million republicans have still decided to believe 0.0000% of the authentic facts and evidence related to the election because Trump tells them its so or with crazy, creative science fiction concoctions like  Mike Lindell's and Dinesh D'Souza's 2,000 mules that, again yielded exactly 0% of authentic evidence that can be used by the right in a legit. legal venue.......the same fair justice system that yielded all the prosecutions of election fraud in the past that I showed earlier.

They believe it because they really want it to be true!

They wish Trump had been elected, so they will believe everything that tells them he was elected and ignore 100% of the other authentic facts and evidence that shows what really happened.

Conversations like this on MarketForum have been going on for almost 2 years now.

The pro Trump side does not appear to have learned much. In fact human nature/cognitive bias often causes people to dig in and respond to legit evidence contradicting them by believing the lie/false belief even more strongly.

I have learned more the past 4+ years as moderator here than I did in the previous 24 years.

About thousands of things because  my learning can be multiplied by an order of magnitude or more by sharing it with readers/posters......which gives it much more value than before.

Before, when I learned something new, I might share it with 1 or 2 people, individually in private, random conversations.

Sharing the authentic truth about the election has been a different learning experience for me.

Much of the  learning for me has been about people. Understanding people is very important. You won't be able to change most of them one bit on political views..........but you can understand why they think the way that they do. 

apparently you still have not "learned" just how many votes were changed by our very own FBI in collusion with facebook and twitter. Either that or you do not want to face more facts. Was there enough? Again, who knows. After all it was the evil orange man he does not deserve due process.

"apparently you still have not "learned" just how many voted were changed by our very own FBI in collusion with facebook and twitter."

mcfarm, man we go back a long ways and it really pains me to see extremely dishonest sources using you like this.

Convincing you that Trump was a victim with absurd, impossible fairy tales that target and victimize you and millions of other patriotic Americans because they know what you want to believe.

So they creatively manufacture stories to match that with false narratives making YOU their victim by taking advantage of your vulnerability and trust.

There is a 0.000% chance that the FBI, Facebook and Twitter colluded to change a great deal of  votes in the 2020 election.

This isn't even possible if you understand the dynamics of elections and counting.

Just like you guys believing Mike Lindells very costly movies/productions supposedly showing China changing the votes to cause Biden to win using the internet........when the voting machines were not even hooked up to the internet.

Or the convincing 2000 Mules Hollywood production that made Dinesh millions of dollars.......indisputably proven to be hogwash when it came to actually investigating his data.

100% of the claims like this were proven to be fraudulent but somehow, it never dawns upon you to be suspicious  of the people that have a track record of 0-100.

Acting instead like they are trustworthy when they haven't told the truth 1 time in almost 2 years about the election. Neither has Trump, their leader.

Man, I am sincerely doing my best to try to help enlighten you with the truth, mcfarm but you have to take the first step to help yourself and stop believing in all these totally impossible schemes.

Same with the rest of you guys that keep believing these manufactured, impossible things........every single time proven completely fraudulent but still repeated anyways, like the totally bonkers Ray Epps conspiracy theories on Fox that  make no sense, were long ago proven wrong but won't go away because Fox knows people will believe it.

They don't ask whether its the truth or not but instead, ask whether they can get people to believe it. If they can...........they use it over and over and over, no matter how many times its indisputably debunked.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87138/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87530/

++++++++++++++++++

These are NOT your friends mcfarm!

Your true friends tell you the truth and expect nothing in return.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77858/#77860

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#78783

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#78919

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#79364

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#79540

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#77012

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#82438

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#85652

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#86468

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#86827

so the lib who spent 400 million dollars on anti Trump crap and dutifully followed the FBI order to not publish the Hunter lap top info and then voluntarily admitted to all on a voluntary interview was what? Making stuff up? Crap, MM we go back a long way and its quite sad to see the cliff you have jumped off. Just for kicks why would The facebook guru admit any of this? What motive? Further why would he make it up according to you? You think for a second after all the bull our FBI has pulled they are not playing games with the lap top.....ohhhh, sudden flash, you think the lap top is Russian  disinformation, right?

OK, I didn't know that you were referring to the Hunter Biden news.

I thought you were referring to tampering with the votes, sorry about that.

I agree that news affected how people perceived Biden. That had been made clear a zillion times here and I agree with you, also that the Mueller investigation was massively corrupted.

Previous threads about Hunter and Biden family corruption/crimes:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/83715/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/83121/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/71953/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/60077/

Muellers bs

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87230/#87231

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/24146/#24224

HOWEVER, what this thread has been about it relates to the actual election and what Trump did after it to try to overthrow those results.

Interestingly, when Hillary lost, many people wanted to blame Russia, which is hogwash from the left.

I've always said, with extremely high confidence that it was Fox and the media on the right (and the botched justice departments handling) that caused Hillary to lose. THEY were the ones that kept her emails and corruption at the top of the news cycle in 2016. 

Then, the justice department blew how they managed it. They got busted in Phoenix with the Bill Clinton, Loretta Lynch fix meeting and had to appoint loose cannon, Jim Comey that actually made it worse for Hillary with a last minute announcement, after they thought Hillary had it won.

I didn't read you griping about Fox  causing Hillary to lose or the justice department causing Hillary to lose.

That's the way it is in the world, mcfarm. Entities on the left will only tell you good things about their side and entities on the right will do the same thing.

There are more of them on the left.

The justice department is biased against Trump and for Biden.

Nothing changed with that back drop ahead of the 2020 election that wasn't there when Trump won in 2016 and caused him to win in 2016............except that Trump greatly increased his NEVER Trump vote because of the way that he behaved..........his own fault.

Trump caused his own loss.

Looking to scapegoat news about a laptop belonging to the son of Trump's opponent is absurd.

What if the laptop never existed?

You are saying that Trump needed to be rescued  by the information on his opponent's son's laptop in order to win and because that was covered up by the left(which was just doing what they always do-including in 2016) the blame for Trumps loss is on them.

How about, for once holding Trump accountable..........this time for his election loss because of his own actions and words as president for 4 years which gave Americans plenty to judge him by on election day, in November 2020.

He wasn't running against a lap top.

When people voted in 2020, they saw this:

1. Donald Trump

2. NOT Donald Trump

Not Donald Trump won.

This is what you are stating

1. Donald Trump

2. NOT Donald Trump +laptop

Would have changed to outcome. That may be true but you are missing the key point.

Every close election has key elements that play a role in the results. Bottom line, the person that lost controls the elements that affect them by their performance and strategies. 

If they are blaming their loss on things that they had no control over,  in this case, counting on the luck of  a lost laptop being discovered just before the election to win....then they failed in doing what people do to win fair elections.

The election of 2020 should have been decided based on the lost laptop of one of the candidates children?

How about observing Trump after he lost the election fair and square by all legit vote counts and judging him for that instead of treating him as a victim because of how information was handled regarding something he had no control over............the actions of his opponents son.

Forget the justice department.

Forget the left media

Forget the dems

Judge Trump based ENTIRELY on HIS diabolical actions that he had 100% control of.

No, he wasn't justified in being a narcissistic, manipulating, lying psychopath that greatly violated the Constitution, trying to over throw an election, dividing his own party and the mindset of tens of millions of HIS victims and doing more damage to this country than any American in history............because they didn't tell people what was on a laptop.

did you really just blame fox for actually reporting the facts about Hillary and not understand the FBI, cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, pbs etc etc etc  all covered up the Biden family corruption? Did you really just do that? 

apparently you still have not "learned" just how many votes were changed by our very own FBI in collusion with facebook and twitter. Either that or you do not want to face more facts. Was there enough? Again, who knows. After all it was the evil orange man he does not deserve due process   And how did you not understand this? Could not of been much plainer.

mcfarm,

Since you think that Fox just reports the facts on topics, this might be a good time for us to go on to a more productive conversation.

However, I agree with you on the facts regarding Hunter's laptop and the Mueller investigation showing bias by the other side.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#77012

fine with me. But could we also agree there should be lots and lots of people who falsely pushed these narratives that should be in jail right now. Including several the new stars on CNN, including Clapper. McCabe, Brennon, Comey and the lost goes on. if we do not hold these crooks accountable what is the point? Or how about just indicting the entire 52 "national security experts" who all signed the false letter to condemn Trump with nothing but lies as ammunition.

Then we can move on to Fauci and his lies about Wuhon and indict him also.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/msnbc-pundit-who-claimed-hunter-biden-laptop-was-russian-disinformation-tapped-for-intelligence-advisory-board/ar-AA11fpct?ocid=AARDHP&li=BBnb7Kz   think I am kidding. Here is what happens when you try to throw a Presidential election and you are a lib. Well of course, you get promoted.

OK, you want to move on to Fauci and of course, your source is Fox again.

I'll accommodate you. 

I can't think of too many topics and stations that featured so called journalists or political talk show commentators who have embarrassed and discredited themselves in such  a flamboyant, attention seeking  fashion as Fox discussing Fauci.

Totally unjustified intense hatred with vicious attacks based sometimes on wild speculation, sometimes completely absurd conspiracy theories, sometimes blatant, easy to fact check and debunk  lies and sometimes but rarely authentic facts.

The hundreds of hours and shows wasted on trying to destroy Fauci and get people to hate Fauci  for personal reasons that could have been spent on providing authentic  information to their viewers.......the quintessential example of Fox making the world  a much worse place and dumbing down their viewers while inspiring them to hate others for political agenda.

No need to add that as long as you continue to use Fox in the evening as your main source for determining how to think about the world, your mind will be severely deprived of authentic facts, truths and  examples of how to respect anybody that disagrees with you.

Just to repeat, since Fox viewers will tend to only remember when I come down hard on Fox.

Fox also tells the truth on some things and makes great points on many issues that other sources deceive us on ...like Hunter's laptop or the Mueller investigation and climate change.

But they are an echo chamber that blatantly lies about many other things, Fauci, Trump and COVID for instance and their viewers are mostly unable to distinguish between the lies and truth.

Viewers go there to hear the news told the way they want to hear it and Fox knows their ratings are dependent on telling it that way......almost like religion.

Catholics, on Sunday don't go to Synagogues and Jews don't go to Catholic mass on a regular basis to see what each side offers.

I respect all religions and the reasons for people to worship and follow. 

However, people today treat their politics similarly to religion. 

They have a political belief system that identifies certain tenets and they go only to sites that worship the same belief system and only tells them things that line up with that belief system using a RELIGIOUS LIKE FAITH. No fact checking or investigating whether the other side that disagrees with what they are being taught has anything right. 

At 7pm on Mon-Fri, the far right religious cult tunes into Tucker to hear him preach far right political sermons with unwavering faith. 

This is more than an anolagy. It's what happens. 

I also  watch Fox to hear their/that point of view, but NOT to let it FORM MY point of view. Hearing all sides and the reasoning with an open mind is important for gaining  discernment of the truth in the real world.

Politics should not be like a religion based on unwavering faith using high priests feeding the words of that religion that are written in stone to followers. 

In the old days, people and journalists didn't do that. We were much more open minded. 

People taking advantage of and abusing the powerful technological advancements in communications are part of what changed that. 

A person has hundreds of choices when it comes to reading or listening to messages, especially political messages.......from both parties.

Why not listen to only sources that tell you what you want to hear all the time to make you feel good about your belief system and reinforce that YOUR views are all the right views?

Why would people go to sources that tell them the opposite of what they believe in?

To learn?

To understand other views?

To see the big picture?

Great answers..........but people don't  actually do that. 

They go to places to tell them what they already believe in and just provide new reasons to for them to believe in it even more strongly!

It's dividing and destroying our country right now. In the case of Trump, it's dividing and destroying the republican party. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0YPzjgZXN0  so being all about truth and fairness I suppose you already had seen this story on cnn and msnbc?   Just take a couple minutes to watch and learn some real facts

Thanks mcfarm,

We should start a new thread on this!