Pro-Palestinian protests sweep US college campuses following mass arrests at Columbia
Dozens have been arrested at NYU and Yale, and Columbia cancels in-person classes as discord over the war in Gaza grows among students across the country.
Violence, making threats or intimidating is NOT the way to respond to the war atrocities and Genocide taking place in Gaza.
However, it should still be understood that this is one of the consequences to our country.........the increase in hatred for Jewish people and Muslims.
Many of the protesters are peaceful and with solid humanitarian points that SHOULD BE ALLOWED by those willing to speak out against these heinous crimes.
Iran responds to Israel's unprovoked attack
Started by metmike - April 13, 2024, 6:43 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/103148/
Netanyahu is a an out of control leader that will listen to nobody.
He's applying widespread collective punishment to 2 million innocent people, mostly children and women.
It's extremely frustrating for 95% of the world to witness this and be unable to stop it.
Punishing American Jews for something they can't control, especially with the nationality they were born with or raised to be part of or punishing people that support Israel (that have a right to a bad/wrong opinion) is displaying hypocrisy.
They're intentionally hurting people that are not playing any role in this ethnic cleansing and bad policies.
And its completely counter productive!!!!
How many people will see violent protesters hurting/threatening people or impacting their rights or safety or disrupting innocent peoples lives and think "wow, I really admire that person and their aggressive/confrontational actions have caused me to take their side"
Most human beings side with the person being harmed or abused NOT the abuser!!!
If you want to generate hatred or outrage in people TOWARDS YOU, then have a protest that violates the rights of other people.
If you want to generate empathy for your cause use MLK as your role model. Do it peacefully. Do it without threatening people or without disrupting their lives. Do it without hatred/violence.
The Palestinian cause is worth speaking out for. Worth non confrontational, peacefully protesting for but not the counterproductive stuff.
From 1955 until his death in 1968, Martin Luther King Jr. was the dominant leader of the US civil rights movement. Following the teachings of Mahatma Gandhi, the Rev. Dr. King believed that nonviolent protest is the most effective weapon against a racist and unjust society. But it required rallying people to his cause. Here are some of the most revolutionary peaceful protests King led.
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Sadly, protesting in the US is not going to have any impact on Netanyahu. On the other hand, it could send a message to our politicians and media. US tax payer money has been funding bombs and weapons used by Israel to kill tens of thousands of innocent people in Gaza. We just authorized more.
Biden is in a tough spot with so many siding with Israel upset with him for not supporting Israel more and just as many upset with him for not supporting Palestinians more.
Based on who Biden is, what matters the most to him is doing what will get him the most votes and that has meant trying to appease both sides but that comes off as him not supporting either side with enough gusto.
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Regardless, this is only going to get worse until Netanyahu decides to stop the Genocide in Gaza.
We are living at the best time to be human beings in history because of the wonderful technologies, medicine and opportunities.
However, advancing and becoming more civilized, though its fighting discrimination and ethics/humanity violations, still has a long way to go in many places around the world..........including here in our own country!
Hate(and love)
13 responses |
Started by metmike - Oct. 17, 2023, 4:15 p.m.
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I'm old enough to remember Vietnam protesting at college campus's. Of course the US involvement in the Vietnam war was 1 million times worse than us, doing things like sending the huge bombs to Israel, used to obliterate Gaza communities with family dwelling households of innocent people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_United_States_involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War
Opposition to United States involvement in the Vietnam War began with demonstrations in 1965 against the escalating role of the United States in the Vietnam War and grew into a broad social movement over the ensuing several years. This movement informed and helped shape the vigorous and polarizing debate, primarily in the United States, during the second half of the 1960s and early 1970s on how to end the Vietnam War.
Many in the peace movement within the United States were children, mothers, or anti-establishment youth. Opposition grew with participation by the African American civil rights and second-wave feminist movements, Chicano Movements, and sectors of organized labor. Additional involvement came from many other groups, including educators, clergy, academics, journalists, lawyers, physicians such as Benjamin Spock, and military veterans.
Their actions consisted mainly of peaceful, nonviolent events; few events were deliberately provocative and violent. In some cases, police used violent tactics against peaceful demonstrators. By 1967, according to Gallup polls, an increasing majority of Americans considered military involvement in Vietnam to be a mistake, echoed decades later by the then-head of American war planning, former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara.[1]
I'm old enough to remember U of Michigan being the leader in protests against the Vietnam war and civil rights violations! US involvement was like.......a million times worse than our role in Gaza and things got extremely crazy!
https://michiganintheworld.history.lsa.umich.edu/antivietnamwar/exhibits/show/exhibit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_United_States_involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War
Opposition to United States involvement in the Vietnam War began with demonstrations in 1965 against the escalating role of the United States in the Vietnam War and grew into a broad social movement over the ensuing several years. This movement informed and helped shape the vigorous and polarizing debate, primarily in the United States, during the second half of the 1960s and early 1970s on how to end the Vietnam War.
Many in the peace movement within the United States were children, mothers, or anti-establishment youth. Opposition grew with participation by the African American civil rights and second-wave feminist movements, Chicano Movements, and sectors of organized labor. Additional involvement came from many other groups, including educators, clergy, academics, journalists, lawyers, physicians such as Benjamin Spock, and military veterans.
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metmike: One of the absolutely saddest facts about the Vietnam war was how our brave, patriotic (and often damaged) soldiers were treated when they came back!
Many troops who served in Vietnam too often paid a high price, not just emotionally and psychologically but physically due to war-related injuries and the long-term health effects of the horrible defoliant Agent Orange that was used so recklessly in the war.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPEacZ1LB0I
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American soldiers returning home from Vietnam often faced scorn as the war they had fought in became increasingly unpopular.
https://www.history.com/news/vietnam-war-veterans-treatment
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50 years later: How Vietnam veterans feel decades after last U.S. troops left war
https://www.va.gov/birmingham-health-care/stories/its-not-about-the-war-its-about-the-warrior/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/11/vietnam-war-voices/105499474/
Now take these images in your minds about our brave Vietnam war soldiers from the United States. What they went thru over there. Nobody should have to go thru that. No families should have to suffer the losses of their sons, husbands and fathers because of decisions by elite politicians with self serving interests.
That's exactly what we've been doing to Ukraine's brave soldiers and their families. NATO recruited charismatic traitor/puppet Zelensky (who was elected, promising to negotiate peace with Russia) travels to NATO countries, effectively selling NATO's war to their people and politicians so NATO can provide the killing tools with which to arm the Ukrainian soldiers with on their suicide missions for NATO and the US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex.
Make no mistake. More than anything, Ukrainians want PEACE with Russia.
It's NATO and our corrupt Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex that are benefiting and are calling the shots. Forcing Ukrainians to fight a US/NATO war against Russia because NATO wants Ukraine and Russia won't give it to them.
One of the most immoral aspects about this is the arrogance and greed of US politicians to force Ukrainians to fight our war for another XX months instead of negotiating for peace. It's NATO/BIDEN/ZELENSKY that refuse to negotiate for peace.
Ukrainians want peace.
Mike Johnson and Zelensky claiming the additional $61 billion will save lives and especially mean that Americans don't have to die because Ukrainians are doing it for us is one of the most pathetic/disturbing justifications for doing what is 1,000% counterproductive and completely abusing the human beings/ brave soldiers on the battlefied and their families. Using them as pawns for their self serving/enriching objectives.
And they have the audacity to celebrate their key role in continuing the kill-fest.........until this money runs out as a bi-partisan victory.
Our politicians are some sick dudes, man. And we're letting them steal our intelligence/brainwash us with convincing sounding propaganda........so they can pilpher our tax dollars for THEIR projects, while bankrupting us and neglecting things that actually matter to help our country and the people living in it.
Congress should be ashamed
Started by metmike - April 22, 2024, 4:32 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/103404/
Sorry for veering off the original topic but what Congress just did with this 61 billion dollars was the MOST counterproductive use of that much money in our country's long history.
I'm totally for robust spending for a strong defense, BTW but this is spending money to greatly weaken our defense and make us MUCH more vulnerable in numerous ways.........and twisting it like a pretzel to mean the exact opposite.
Make no mistake.
That $61,000,000,000 just signed the death warrants for many tens of thousands to more likely 100,000+ soldiers that will be sent on more suicide missions for NATO and the US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex.
We just did that to them!
Ukrainians want peace NOT this! Stop claiming that we are supporting Ukraine/Ukrainians. Thats a blatant lie! It's the exact opposite.
We are supporting NATO and the US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex.
If we were for UKRAINIANS, we would be negotiating for peace with Putin not killing Ukrainians(over half their army has already been killed off or permanently disabled).
Zelensky sold out Ukrainians to NATO for personal fame and glory.
Ukraine was supposed to have elections last month but he cancelled them, blaming it on the war.
We are told that we are fighting for Ukraine's democracy.
HA! To keep the NATO puppet in office they had to cancel elections! How ironic!
And Russia's initial terms to not invade didn't have any impact on Ukraines democracy. Zelensky is the one that shut down their democratic elections NOT Putin.
Putins biggest demand was/is an assurance that NATO would/will not admit Ukraine and arm it with US/NATO weapons pointed at Russia.
It that easy folks.
But instead, our corrupt to the core Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex is using this opportunity to enrich themselves at the expense of the poor people that have no choice fighting this war.
Is any of the propaganda bombarding us all day discussing what is needed for peace and of anybody actually trying to seek peace?
The reason is that THEY DON'T WANT PEACE. The longer the war goes on, the better it is for them and the worse it is for those fighting it.
“Anti-Semitism on campuses in the United States is reminiscent of what happened in German universities in the 1930s. The world cannot stand idly by.”
Washington — House Speaker Mike Johnson was met with loud boos when he visited Columbia University on Wednesday to call for the resignation of the institution's president as the campus has been roiled with accusations of antisemitism amid ongoing pro-Palestinian protests.
"Our feeling is that they have not acted to restore order on the campus," he said. "This is dangerous. This is not free expression. This is not First Amendment. They are threatening, intimidating."
Johnson, who also met with Jewish students before his remarks, said he planned to call President Biden later Wednesday to urge him to take action, adding that the National Guard may need to be deployed.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/house-speaker-mike-johnson-columbia-university-visit/
“I do feel a somewhat unique responsibility to speak out when I see this level of antisemitism on our campuses and in our communities,” the Pennsylvania governor said.
Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro on Wednesday denounced universities for failing to guarantee the safety of students as some protests over the Israel-Hamas war have turned confrontational and led to antisemitic incidents.
“What we’re seeing at Columbia and what we’re seeing in some campuses across America, where universities can’t guarantee the safety and security of their students, it’s absolutely unacceptable,” Shapiro said in exclusive comments to POLITICO reporters.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/josh-shapiro-campus-protests-latest-00154157
The Department of Education is probing claims that the school discriminated against Palestinian and Arab students amid Israel’s war on Gaza.
https://theintercept.com/2024/04/24/umass-amherst-palestine-protests-harassment/
Bernie Sanders (Jewish lib) disagrees with Netanyahu regarding whether or not criticizing Israel’s policies/leaders is necessarily anti-Semitic. I feel Bernie is right even when keeping in mind an unknown portion killed/wounded being Hamas and keeping in mind their use of human shields making it extra difficult for the IDF to distinguish between Hamas and non-Hamas. I, myself, don’t like Bibi and his over aggressiveness and thus wish he would resign. But one needs to pay attention to the wording of the criticisms (nuance) as there are many of course who criticize Israel who are genuine anti-Semites. In summary, it is a very complex situation:
Thanks much, Larry!
We agree on Netanyahu!
I want Israel to do well and have always had a special fondness of and admiration for Jewish people.
That has not changed but its extremely difficult to not have that erode slightly because of the current situation in Gaza and my recent history lessons of the past which updated my previous indoctrination.
Regardless of that, nothing will ever make the slightest dent in my personal friendships which are completely independent of the others race, religion or political affiliation. That includes people that post here, especially when we disagree.
The strongest friendships can weather strong disagreements at times. They don’t hold grudges and they should avoid personal attacks.
Mutual respect and thinking about the other persons positives not there negatives And flaws.
There are some people in this world that I would never want to be friends with…….ever!
Tolerance and avoiding make the most sense then but not hatred.
Sadly, the hatred targeting Jewish (Muslim) people is the complete opposite.
The entire dysfunctional relationship is based on having a disagreement. Or a difference in their skin color, religion, nationality and especially politics.
They intentionally target people, using those metrics to determine what the relationship will be……..instead of commonalities.
7 days of Antisemitic hatred at Columbia Univ:
THANKS, Larry!
I especially appreciate this from you, since you are a Jew that practices his faith.
Im not Jewish, so it’s not me being targeted but thats a most important point for everybody. We should try to imagine what its like to be hated and targeted like this and speak out against it.
When we don’t actually know people being hurt, it’s easy to overlook injustice. To be indifferent and complacent. Not be bothered too much, Because what doesn’t impact us or people that we care about isn’t as important to us personally as things that impact people we personally care about.
For instance, most of us are just reading about or watching it on the news reports and not experiencing it in any way. We feel totally UN threatened by it because we can go out in the world and not worry about being targeted by hate groups who want to hurt us emotionally and potentially physically.
Most sadly, they don’t even know a thing about us personally or care about anything that defines who we are except that we are Jewish or Muslim or black or a democrat Or MAGA.
It would be like lining up 1,000 people and asking them what their nationality or religion is To determine how we feel about them.
1. You’re Jewish? OK, then I hate you.
2. You’re Catholic? You’re one of us and we’re good.
3. You belong to MAGA? i hate MAGA and you’re one of them!
4. Or, You belong to MAGA? you’re one of us. We“ll make great friends reinforcing MAGA commonalities with each other. and trashing far left libtards.
It’s tribalism on steroids which is creating a divide as big as the Grand Canyon in this country!
We associate with people like ourselves and shun people that are different. That’s actually a natural thing that makes sense.
Christians talking about their religion will often derive pleasure/reward from discussing teachings from the New Testament. Muslims the Qur’an and Jews, the Torah and Tanakh. This is a good thing.
That cant be experienced to the same extent with people of a different religion.
For huge sports fans, if you’ve lived in Atlanta your entire life, you’re more likely to have shared experiences with another person from Atlanta. This is a good thing.
We seek out birds of a feather for natural reasons that connect us with common bonds.Nothing wrong with this.
When we have a grain thread at MarketForuM, producers and people that trade grains are most interested because its part of their lives. This is a good thing.
sometimes, heated rivalries in sports evolve into pathological relationships with the rivals. Things can get ugly and good sportsmanship goes out the window because of being obsessed with competitiveness that trumps mutual respect.
A similar mentality can exist in other realms. Your religion or your nationality or your political party or your country is not just the best but is placed on a high pedi stole with much greater value assigned to everything defining what you believe and sadly, often less value for the lives of human beings that don’t belong to your ‘tribe’.
We’re seeing it with antisemitism at college campuses where it’s obvious because Jews are the targets. Its most obvious in Gaza where innocent people are actually being killed because of it.
It’s more subtle in Ukraine. We have been convinced to believe we’re helping Ukrainians but are so detached and uninformed and uncaring because it’s not OUR brave soldiers dying or people in OUR family that are part of the hundreds of thousands that we dehumanize and treat like pawns or units WHOSE LIVES ARE DISPENSABLE FOR THE CAUSE THAT WE DECIDE THEY SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR.instead of human beings going thru widespread unthinkable suffering that we would never tolerate for ourselves or our loved ones.
A death and destruction, real world scenario that would be totally unacceptable for fellow Americans but is ok for Non Americans.
Sorry for the latest dissertation.
What I wanted to do is ask you, Larry how this massive increase in antisemitism in recent months makes you and other Jewish people feel Personally?
Hey Mike,
I’m aware that there have always been anti-Semites all around even if not a big % of folks. I tend to keep to myself and thus don’t normally openly advertise personal info to strangers, on the internet (as you know), etc. But I’ve still in especially the distant past been the recipient of some AS comments including even from people I knew at the time. This was mainly from coworkers including one way back when with whom I was and still continued to be friendly even afterward. Fortunately I never responded with anger and just sort of ignored the comments/didn’t treat them seriously. I figured the best thing to do was to set a good example and show I’m just a “normal” (whatever that means) person.
Regarding my views on Bibi: while some relatives agree I do have disagreements with some close relatives, who I feel are more myopic and/or ignorant on this issue though some of them are young. But we’re all entitled to our views whatever they are. Regardless, I haven’t been shy to them about sharing my feelings about Bibi, saying Israeli PR is by far the worst I could remember, etc. I’ve heard them say Biden hasn’t supported Israel enough even though I respond by telling them he actually has been supportive despite Bibi being too aggressive. One is an on again, off again, on again Trump fan (literally) and won’t accept anything I say “good” about Biden since this person is now back to on again Trump supporter.
Thanks for that, Larry!
With the war in Ukraine, the solution is actually a no brainer. Negotiate peace with Russia.
Stop the NATO and US politician/media bs AND NEGOTIATE WITH PUTIN and give the people in Ukraine (and Russia) peace as they have been pleading for.
In the Middle East........wow. No matter how optimistic one is, any potential long term, effective solutions appear to be pipe dreams.
For sure, what Netanyahu is doing now is making it MUCH worse, not better.
Worse over there. Worse over here.
For instance, a year ago did we have this chaos going on in the US?
Hamas started in with what they did on Oct. 7th for sure but Netanyahu's reaction has made it MUCH worse.
Regardless of our own positions. Even Netanyahu's strongest supporters have to admit that antisemitism is at record high levels around the world and something like 95% of the people disagree with his tactics.
Do you want to reign all this negativity in?
Reign in Netanyahu and what he's doing in Gaza.
If a person doesn't want stand for that.............then they MUST STILL accept the consequences..........a robust message from upset people to his tactics that violate most ethical standards.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
You can't have Netanyahu doing this and also and avoid this sort of reaction, that sadly is in the form of antisemitism.
It's one or the other.
Either Netanyahu changes his tune or gets kicked out of office or this will probably get WORSE not better.
There is NO reason to think it will get better when everything points to it getting worse. Trying to reign it in will be counterproductive for the following reason:
These people are extremely upset and strongly expressing themselves with a message that they feel is not being heard and they feel needs stronger measures to hear it.
Trying to shut them up and not hearing their message will only reinforce why they are so upset and doing it now. That one side that dominates politics and the media in the US wants to shut them up and is making bad decisions for Palestinians with no accountability.
Its not an easy choice. Paying attention to their messages might be positive reinforcement and actually making it worse, according to 1 position.
What I would do, seriously on these campuses is establish student organizations that have RESPONSIBLE leaders from both sides that are committed to getting along and hearing each other messages.
Then, make a tremendous effort for those organizations to be elevated to prominance and feature large memberships from both sides. With meetings geared towards living in peace AND SINCERELY HEARING THE OTHER SIDE.
The objective would not be to change the others sides mind, which will never happen. Or even to change the policies of the university or United States which might not happen.
The entire objective would be to learn to accept and respect other people that will always have an opinion that is the polar opposite of yours. Not accept injustices. Continue to fight against those but learn that you will open more minds by respecting people that you disagree with.
That could be applied in all of politics. They could call the organization: "Harmony".
Be the start of healing the massive and growing divide in this country!
Again, it would take good, open minded, peace desiring leadership that could be helped by faculty that serve as the teachers/mentors in higher education.
This will attract extremists and activists but the organizations must have a top mission of NOT letting people like that control the mentality.
Other than that, you'll just get 2 opposing sides that defend their side and vilify the other one for having the opposite position and not hearing THEIR message.
A recipe for failure!
Larry just copied a wonderful post that deserves to especially be posted in this thread:
Re: Iran responds to Israel's unprovoked attack
By WxFollower - April 29, 2024, 5:51 p.m.
I agree with much of what this lib Muslim (with Jewish dad/sis/deceased best friend) says except when he says protests are supposed to cause inconvenience including blocking traffic. Blocking traffic shouldn’t be allowed because that, for example, could have included an ambulance with my bro in it.
But otherwise, I think is mainly good stuff:
From Columbia Pres. 4/29/24:
https://president.columbia.edu/news/statement-columbia-university-president-minouche-shafik-4-29
“Fourth, our values—as well as our duties under civil rights laws—compel us to condemn hate and to protect every member of our community from harassment and discrimination. Antisemitic language and actions are unacceptable and calls for violence are simply abhorrent.
I know that many of our Jewish students, and other students as well, have found the atmosphere intolerable in recent weeks. Many have left campus, and that is a tragedy. To those students and their families, I want to say to you clearly: You are a valued part of the Columbia community. This is your campus too. We are committed to making Columbia safe for everyone, and to ensuring that you feel welcome and valued.”
Thanks very much, Larry.
It's interesting that nationwide protesting in the past has always featured 2 strongly opposed sides which is exactly what inspired the protesting..............one side that feels compelled to speak out/act to stop an injustice to humanity because the other side is the problem for enabling and causing the injustice.
The Vietnam War, Civil Rights movement, George Floyd RIOTS are noteworthy examples.
MLK set the gold standard for peaceful protesting that didn't threaten others (much of the times0 but his groups did cause disruptions and led to thousands being arrested. In retrospect, almost everybody agrees with what he did today, even though at the time, many people that were inconvenienced were outraged.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights_movement
However, the outrage of people during this era of people that supported his cause lead to some EXTREME reactions by those rioting.
I'm especially familiar with this one because it was 3.5 miles northeast of our house, when I was 11 years old:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot
This riot was completely COUNTER productive for shaping public opinion and for the cause of Civil Rights.
The BLM protesting that led to riots were also for Civil Rights. Same cause as MLK but the quintessential example of how NOT TO protest........but now, we have a National Holiday in honor of the cause for that rioting.
Juneteenth
Started by metmike - June 16, 2022, 7:28 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85870/
The irony of arresting Gaza protestors at USF’s MLK Plaza | Letters
Here’s what readers are saying in Wednesday’s letters to the editor.
https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2024/05/01/irony-arresting-gaza-protestors-usfs-mlk-plaza-letters/
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From Amnesty International:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/freedom-of-expression/protest/
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So this time, we have another just cause(with 10s of millions that disagree, some strongly with the cause-which IS the problem) and a group that sincerely wants to send a message to help STOP our participation in the atrocities going on in Palestine/Gaza.
The success, like in the past is tied to how the media portrays the cause and the protesters.
The George Floyd cause(with mostly sincere protesters) that did so much damage from the dozens of violent riots......got widespread positive coverage and support by most MSM sources...despite the tremendous counterproductive and hate/attack law enforcement messages.
Now we have a Juneteenth holiday and SOME positive changes with how cops treat minorities............but at the same time, some really bad bad things for the law enforcement community and racial relations got WORSE not better.
With these pro Gaza protests, they are almost all very peaceful but the media coverage is the polar opposite of the George Floyd violent rioting(that most of the media strongly backed).
This time, most of the media backs Israel and what the US is doing to support Israel with its pro Israel position, so all the bad things related to this protesting is getting overweighted coverage...........and almost NEVER the cause.
The media is not behind this cause. In the past, I've made the case that the media and politicians are overly influenced by the powerful Jewish coalition in our country.
It's pretty crazy that the George Floyds riots were twisted to be good and these mostly peaceful protesters with a just cause and almost no harm physical harm to others are deemed to be bad.
I am very strongly opposed to antisemism in every way, shape and form which is why I started this thread with that title............so there would be no misinterpreting my mindset with posts like this.
But I strongly agree with the cause of these protesters.
People that are strongly pro Israel will not get this. Fox news has constantly insisted that Israel is doing nothing wrong in Gaza and is only defending itself.
I'm actually very pro Israel which is one of the biggest reasons that I want their collective punishment and ethnic cleansing to end.........NOW!
95% of the world is outraged at Israel. They are destroying their credibility and the support they did have and could have if Netanyahu wasn't taking them down the diabolical path of committing horrific war atrocities.
The pro Israel side is blindly defending Israel because Israel is our ally and controls propaganda messages (like at FOX refusing to hear the other sides JUST CAUSE)
But they are defending the WRONG side on THIS particular issue pertaining to Gaza.
So, what should these people do?
This topic is getting a pro Israel slant by the media.
These protests are getting mostly negative coverage from the media.
The media controls peoples thinking.
Should the protesters just give up, stay home or go to class without inconveniencing others?
I'm serious and its because I feel extremely strong that their cause is just. What should they do? Because NOT doing this, for sure means no chance for the US or Universities to change a policy thats violating the human rights of millions in Palestine/Gaza.
Unfortunately, because they don't have the media on their side so doing this is portrayed as a COUNTER productive effort, so its potentially making things worse.
This really is an example of how the media can control the way Americans think.
Hey Mike,
I thought this thread’s main goal was supposed to be discussing anti-Semitism (especially in the US)(I appreciate you starting it) as opposed to the highly questionable aggressiveness of the Israeli leadership, which is already covered in other thread(s) and the idea about a supposed pro-Israel US media bias. Otherwise, why even have this thread? That’s why I posted what I did about Columbia Univ. There’s apparently really been a lot of very nasty things said aimed at Jewish students there and at other universities making them feel uncomfortable and even threatened for their safety just because of being Jewish. I’ve been reading that outside agitators are not surprisingly getting heavily into the mix (like was supposedly done during the BLM protests/riots) trying to change pro-Palestinian protests from largely peaceful to more violent/anti-Semitic/riots.
The head of Columbia, who I posted about for her 4/29/24 comments, is actually of Egyptian-Muslim background in case you didn’t know:
Thanks, Larry!
I completely get that and will try to emphasize how wrong antisemitism is more but the REASON for the antisemitism matters here.
You can't stamp out or manage a problem without understanding what's causing the problem.
You and me and the media and the government and the Universities/law enforcement can speculate on what should be done to stop this surge in antisemitism but we are all wasting our time because the profound change that's inspiring this massive surge in antisemitism is what Israel is doing in Gaza right now.
The most effective way to suck the life out of the movement is for the reason feeding their outrage to go away. Not recognizing this is to have our heads in the sand.
Since we can't control that, we can still discuss everything else related to this topic and continue to stress the wrongs of antisemitism at all times but these people are upset about something legit and its just not going away.
I will repeat that they should NOT be blaming Jewish people living in the United States or even people that support what's going on in Gaza. Everybody has the right to an opinion, even if its wrong and especially if we disagree with them.
Nobody should ever be threatened/intimidated or discriminated against because of their nationality. skin color, religion or political affiliation. This is a violation of their civil rights.
As mentioned, a huge reason that I'm against whats going on in Gaza is because I'm PRO Israel and want the best for Israel and its future.
I'm REALLY, REALLY PRO JEWISH PEOPLE LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES(that aren't tied to corruption or bad policies-and I'm just as much against NON Jews that meet that description).
Stopping the atrocities in Gaza would be 100 times more effective at reigning in the surge in antisemitism than anything else.
Stopping the contributions that the US government provides and the enabling it provides to these war atrocities would be just as effective.
These people have a valid cause but the question is still, what should they be doing, if not this?
Personally, I feel very uncomfortable supporting their methods, even though I support their cause. And of course, the ones that profess antisemitism beliefs get the strongest condemnation that I can express.
It's because of the antisemitism taking place at these protests that I feel uncomfortable supporting them. I will repeat too, that the media has decided to make the antisemitism the most important narrative in their reporting, instead of their cause.
Any antisemitism is wrong under ALL circumstances, so don't get me wrong when I report the media's current interpretation.
By metmike - May 1, 2024, 5:09 p.m.
" Just to let you know, I started this SPECIFIC thread on October 17, 2023, in a large part as a response to the attack on Israel by Hamas BEFORE the response in Gaza became the focus!
Same messages as in many previous threads/posts but trying to make them more compelling here."
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Hate(and love)
16 responses |
Started by metmike - Oct. 17, 2023, 4:15 p.m.
We have 2 diametrically opposed sides that are only focusing on what THE OTHER SIDE is doing wrong.
1. 1 side is outraged with the atrocities in Gaza and US involvement.
2. The other side is outraged with side 1 because of the way they are expressing that outrage....... antisemitism messages and disrupting college campuses.
3. Neither side acknowledges that they are doing anything wrong or that the other side has good points. Just the opposite.
That's the recipe for it to GET WORSE!.
Side 1's messages are getting completely rejected and they appear quite determined to be heard.
Side 2 is determined to stop Side 1, not by hearing them and taking actions they want but instead by crushing their protests and right to express themselves, which will just outrage Side 1 even more by proving their points.
Everybody agrees that we want things to get better and
1. For the war in Gaza to end
2. For the protests to end
There is only 1 man who controls that. Netanyahu MUST be removed from office or do a 180 degree turn with his actions.
There is a near 0% chance that Biden and his advisors don't know this. The United States must do everything in its power to get Netanyahu out of office ASAP!!!
Sending them more bombs and support was the wrong message.
However, Biden knows that in this very close election, this issue could cost him the presidency. That's what matters the most TO HIM.
If the war in Gaza ends, Biden gets a big boost in support immediately. Between now and November, he will be extraordinarily motivated by this.
I think that its good for law enforcement and college campuses to clamp down on this protesting. With classes ending in a couple of weeks, the disruptions will not be as great but those students are NOT going to suddenly vanish because of the school calendar.
There is the real possibility that this could spread and increase the chaos and hatred and the 2 sides talking past each other with no hope of a resolution because we can't provide one.
The resolution is with the 1 man responsible.
Don't forget, ~95% of the world agrees with what I just stated. There are 100 Muslims to every Jew on this planet. So this is expected by the world.........except in Jewish-centric Israel and the United States.
Again, I am very pro Israel and pro Jewish people in the US but want to focus on being real while still strongly denouncing antisemitism.
MY 2 CENTS WORTH........... I RARELY PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THE ISRAEL / GAZA, ANYMORE. SAME WITH RUSSIA / UKRAINE.
I DO PAY ATTENTION TO THE ANTISEMITISM, IN MY OWN COUNTRY (USA). IF I HAD MY WAY WITH THE COLLEGES... EVERYONE CHANTING "DEATH TO AMERICA" OR SPEWING THEIR ETHNIC HATRED, WOULD BE IMMEDIATELY REMOVED FROM THE ROSTER & THE CAMPUS. AMERICAN CITIZENS WOULD BE SENT TO GITMO TO "CHILL OUT" FOR AT LEAST A DECADE. & THE NON-CITIZENS WOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE COUNTRY & NEVER ALLOWED BACK IN. BOTH GROUPS WOULD BE PUT ON THE TERRORIST LIST...AND, GIVEN A HEFTY FINE
Following up on the last post and how to stop it.
The war in Gaza has always been a big thorn in Biden's side but this takes it to a new level and REALLY threatens his election campaign.
This protests were not expected a month ago and is potentially costing Biden many more votes, the longer it goes on.
This can't go on in Gaza forever and we have the ICC threatening to put out arrest warrants for Netanyahu for his war crimes in addition to this and widespread, increasing global outrage.
I'm convinced that there are extremely persuasive arguments and offers being pitched to Netanyahu to change something NOW to keep everything from completely collapsing around him now and instead, for him to back out.
He's reached the end of the line for his war crimes in Gaza with impunity and no consequences, other than ~95% of the world being outraged and powerless to stop him.
It's the beginning of the end for him, I hope.
And with that, more peace. It won't come close to fixing the impossible situation in the Middle East but it will stop the escalating damage and the motivation that some are using for the escalating antisemitism.
No matter how we address these protestors, the only way to make them stop is to stop Netanyahu. Same thing with the rest of the world. These protesters represent the VAST majority of views in the world. Those people are becoming more outraged NOT less. It's only a matter of time.
Before the election is the time Biden and the Ds need.
I see your points, Jean.
How can a person living in the US chant "death to America" and be taken seriously? rhetorical question (-:
Like you, I bash the heck out of corrupt politicians, media, presidents and bad policies in the United States.......because I LOVE MY COUNTRY and want those bad apples to be held accountable for wrecking it.
It's a good thing to protest because you want a positive change to HELP make things better.
It's a bad thing to protest to try to destroy the United States or other entities/institutions that are corrupted with bad people.
Fight against those really bad people to help those entities to better serve people.
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Get Netanyahu and those in his party that align with his bad ideas out of office in Israel to restore some credibility to HELP ISRAEL!
And to stop the rampant, abhorrent antisemitism in the United States right now!!
WOW to Bernie!
He is out to lunch on the beneficial gas, CO2 destroying the planet but his speech brought tears to my eyes several times!
He's obviously not a scientist but he sure as heck understands HUMAN RIGHTS!
He is a Jewish man that cares about Israel and Jewish people but puts human beings FIRST.
We should keep in mind that what triggered this on college campuses was the US aid package that also included Ukraine(which had me especially fired up).
Bernie's great speech has me fired up more for this issue again!
We should be thinking about these children and families in the pictures X 1,000!
The horrific Genocide ramps up
Started by metmike - Feb. 20, 2024, 7:22 p.m.
WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS: WHY ARE SO MANY JEWISH AMERICANS SO LIBERAL... AND, DON'T CARE FOR ISRAEL? (OR, HAVE I MISSED A SEA CHANGE IN THEM?)
It’s interesting that Jewish people that hated Fox for years suddenly started watching
6 months ago because of the pro Israel coverage there.
Jean said: WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS: WHY ARE SO MANY JEWISH AMERICANS SO LIBERAL... AND, DON'T CARE FOR ISRAEL? (OR, HAVE I MISSED A SEA CHANGE IN THEM?)
Hey Jean,
Great Q’s! The majority of Jewish Americans have been lib Dems as long as I can recall. I think it has to do with empathy for bigotry against the economically disadvantaged and minorities because many Jews have been the victims of terrible bigotry for many centuries, themselves. They’re an ethnic minority.
However, similar to religious Christians, the more religious Jews have tended to be much more con Pubs, especially in recent years.
Regarding Israel, it isn’t that many lib Jewish Americans like Bernie “don’t care for Israel”. It‘s much more that they don’t care for the Bibi administration because it is on the right and supported by far right wing Israeli parties, a terrible fit for lib Jews of the US. Bibi is like Israel’s Trump to an extent. Libs don’t like either.
Included in this is that that many far right Israelis currently have limited empathy for the innocent Palestinians. Lib Jews like Bernie just like libs in general tend to have more empathy than others for downtrodden groups anywhere in the world.
Lib Jews want Bibi out of office ASAP with the hope a more moderate PM/admin/coalition would be elected. If so, most of the libs would likely go back to strong support of Israeli policies/leaders like was the case for Golda, Rabin, Peres, Barak, etc.
But many con US Jews love the Bibi admin just like they love Trump. Many of them don’t want Bibi to go. Many lib Jewish Americans hate Bibi for similar reasons that they hate Trump.
In summary, Jewish American views about Israel and other issues are nowhere near a monolith! Bernie and, say, Alan Dershowitz are on near opposite sides with regard to Israeli policy these days.
Does this all make sense?
Thanks very much, Larry.
Great comments!
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/jewish-americans-in-2020/
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THANKS, LARRY. I SHALL RETURN
I'M ON MY WAY OUT TO TRY & GET SOME OF MY YARD MOWED, W/O GETTIN' STUCK IN THE RAIN SOAKED MUD.