Pro-Palestinian protests sweep US college campuses following mass arrests at Columbia
Dozens have been arrested at NYU and Yale, and Columbia cancels in-person classes as discord over the war in Gaza grows among students across the country.
Violence, making threats or intimidating is NOT the way to respond to the war atrocities and Genocide taking place in Gaza.
However, it should still be understood that this is one of the consequences to our country.........the increase in hatred for Jewish people and Muslims.
Many of the protesters are peaceful and with solid humanitarian points that SHOULD BE ALLOWED by those willing to speak out against these heinous crimes.
Iran responds to Israel's unprovoked attack
Started by metmike - April 13, 2024, 6:43 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/103148/
Netanyahu is a an out of control leader that will listen to nobody.
He's applying widespread collective punishment to 2 million innocent people, mostly children and women.
It's extremely frustrating for 95% of the world to witness this and be unable to stop it.
Punishing American Jews for something they can't control, especially with the nationality they were born with or raised to be part of or punishing people that support Israel (that have a right to a bad/wrong opinion) is displaying hypocrisy.
They're intentionally hurting people that are not playing any role in this ethnic cleansing and bad policies.
And its completely counter productive!!!!
How many people will see violent protesters hurting/threatening people or impacting their rights or safety or disrupting innocent peoples lives and think "wow, I really admire that person and their aggressive/confrontational actions have caused me to take their side"
Most human beings side with the person being harmed or abused NOT the abuser!!!
If you want to generate hatred or outrage in people TOWARDS YOU, then have a protest that violates the rights of other people.
If you want to generate empathy for your cause use MLK as your role model. Do it peacefully. Do it without threatening people or without disrupting their lives. Do it without hatred/violence.
The Palestinian cause is worth speaking out for. Worth non confrontational, peacefully protesting for but not the counterproductive stuff.
From 1955 until his death in 1968, Martin Luther King Jr. was the dominant leader of the US civil rights movement. Following the teachings of Mahatma Gandhi, the Rev. Dr. King believed that nonviolent protest is the most effective weapon against a racist and unjust society. But it required rallying people to his cause. Here are some of the most revolutionary peaceful protests King led.
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Sadly, protesting in the US is not going to have any impact on Netanyahu. On the other hand, it could send a message to our politicians and media. US tax payer money has been funding bombs and weapons used by Israel to kill tens of thousands of innocent people in Gaza. We just authorized more.
Biden is in a tough spot with so many siding with Israel upset with him for not supporting Israel more and just as many upset with him for not supporting Palestinians more.
Based on who Biden is, what matters the most to him is doing what will get him the most votes and that has meant trying to appease both sides but that comes off as him not supporting either side with enough gusto.
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Regardless, this is only going to get worse until Netanyahu decides to stop the Genocide in Gaza.
We are living at the best time to be human beings in history because of the wonderful technologies, medicine and opportunities.
However, advancing and becoming more civilized, though its fighting discrimination and ethics/humanity violations, still has a long way to go in many places around the world..........including here in our own country!
Hate(and love)
13 responses |
Started by metmike - Oct. 17, 2023, 4:15 p.m.
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I'm old enough to remember Vietnam protesting at college campus's. Of course the US involvement in the Vietnam war was 1 million times worse than us, doing things like sending the huge bombs to Israel, used to obliterate Gaza communities with family dwelling households of innocent people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_United_States_involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War
Opposition to United States involvement in the Vietnam War began with demonstrations in 1965 against the escalating role of the United States in the Vietnam War and grew into a broad social movement over the ensuing several years. This movement informed and helped shape the vigorous and polarizing debate, primarily in the United States, during the second half of the 1960s and early 1970s on how to end the Vietnam War.
Many in the peace movement within the United States were children, mothers, or anti-establishment youth. Opposition grew with participation by the African American civil rights and second-wave feminist movements, Chicano Movements, and sectors of organized labor. Additional involvement came from many other groups, including educators, clergy, academics, journalists, lawyers, physicians such as Benjamin Spock, and military veterans.
Their actions consisted mainly of peaceful, nonviolent events; few events were deliberately provocative and violent. In some cases, police used violent tactics against peaceful demonstrators. By 1967, according to Gallup polls, an increasing majority of Americans considered military involvement in Vietnam to be a mistake, echoed decades later by the then-head of American war planning, former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara.[1]
I'm old enough to remember U of Michigan being the leader in protests against the Vietnam war and civil rights violations! US involvement was like.......a million times worse than our role in Gaza and things got extremely crazy!
https://michiganintheworld.history.lsa.umich.edu/antivietnamwar/exhibits/show/exhibit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_United_States_involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War
Opposition to United States involvement in the Vietnam War began with demonstrations in 1965 against the escalating role of the United States in the Vietnam War and grew into a broad social movement over the ensuing several years. This movement informed and helped shape the vigorous and polarizing debate, primarily in the United States, during the second half of the 1960s and early 1970s on how to end the Vietnam War.
Many in the peace movement within the United States were children, mothers, or anti-establishment youth. Opposition grew with participation by the African American civil rights and second-wave feminist movements, Chicano Movements, and sectors of organized labor. Additional involvement came from many other groups, including educators, clergy, academics, journalists, lawyers, physicians such as Benjamin Spock, and military veterans.
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metmike: One of the absolutely saddest facts about the Vietnam war was how our brave, patriotic (and often damaged) soldiers were treated when they came back!
Many troops who served in Vietnam too often paid a high price, not just emotionally and psychologically but physically due to war-related injuries and the long-term health effects of the horrible defoliant Agent Orange that was used so recklessly in the war.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPEacZ1LB0I
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American soldiers returning home from Vietnam often faced scorn as the war they had fought in became increasingly unpopular.
https://www.history.com/news/vietnam-war-veterans-treatment
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50 years later: How Vietnam veterans feel decades after last U.S. troops left war
https://www.va.gov/birmingham-health-care/stories/its-not-about-the-war-its-about-the-warrior/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/11/vietnam-war-voices/105499474/
Now take these images in your minds about our brave Vietnam war soldiers from the United States. What they went thru over there. Nobody should have to go thru that. No families should have to suffer the losses of their sons, husbands and fathers because of decisions by elite politicians with self serving interests.
That's exactly what we've been doing to Ukraine's brave soldiers and their families. NATO recruited charismatic traitor/puppet Zelensky (who was elected, promising to negotiate peace with Russia) travels to NATO countries, effectively selling NATO's war to their people and politicians so NATO can provide the killing tools with which to arm the Ukrainian soldiers with on their suicide missions for NATO and the US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex.
Make no mistake. More than anything, Ukrainians want PEACE with Russia.
It's NATO and our corrupt Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex that are benefiting and are calling the shots. Forcing Ukrainians to fight a US/NATO war against Russia because NATO wants Ukraine and Russia won't give it to them.
One of the most immoral aspects about this is the arrogance and greed of US politicians to force Ukrainians to fight our war for another XX months instead of negotiating for peace. It's NATO/BIDEN/ZELENSKY that refuse to negotiate for peace.
Ukrainians want peace.
Mike Johnson and Zelensky claiming the additional $61 billion will save lives and especially mean that Americans don't have to die because Ukrainians are doing it for us is one of the most pathetic/disturbing justifications for doing what is 1,000% counterproductive and completely abusing the human beings/ brave soldiers on the battlefied and their families. Using them as pawns for their self serving/enriching objectives.
And they have the audacity to celebrate their key role in continuing the kill-fest.........until this money runs out as a bi-partisan victory.
Our politicians are some sick dudes, man. And we're letting them steal our intelligence/brainwash us with convincing sounding propaganda........so they can pilpher our tax dollars for THEIR projects, while bankrupting us and neglecting things that actually matter to help our country and the people living in it.
Congress should be ashamed
Started by metmike - April 22, 2024, 4:32 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/103404/
Sorry for veering off the original topic but what Congress just did with this 61 billion dollars was the MOST counterproductive use of that much money in our country's long history.
I'm totally for robust spending for a strong defense, BTW but this is spending money to greatly weaken our defense and make us MUCH more vulnerable in numerous ways.........and twisting it like a pretzel to mean the exact opposite.
Make no mistake.
That $61,000,000,000 just signed the death warrants for many tens of thousands to more likely 100,000+ soldiers that will be sent on more suicide missions for NATO and the US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex.
We just did that to them!
Ukrainians want peace NOT this! Stop claiming that we are supporting Ukraine/Ukrainians. Thats a blatant lie! It's the exact opposite.
We are supporting NATO and the US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex.
If we were for UKRAINIANS, we would be negotiating for peace with Putin not killing Ukrainians(over half their army has already been killed off or permanently disabled).
Zelensky sold out Ukrainians to NATO for personal fame and glory.
Ukraine was supposed to have elections last month but he cancelled them, blaming it on the war.
We are told that we are fighting for Ukraine's democracy.
HA! To keep the NATO puppet in office they had to cancel elections! How ironic!
And Russia's initial terms to not invade didn't have any impact on Ukraines democracy. Zelensky is the one that shut down their democratic elections NOT Putin.
Putins biggest demand was/is an assurance that NATO would/will not admit Ukraine and arm it with US/NATO weapons pointed at Russia.
It that easy folks.
But instead, our corrupt to the core Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex is using this opportunity to enrich themselves at the expense of the poor people that have no choice fighting this war.
Is any of the propaganda bombarding us all day discussing what is needed for peace and of anybody actually trying to seek peace?
The reason is that THEY DON'T WANT PEACE. The longer the war goes on, the better it is for them and the worse it is for those fighting it.
“Anti-Semitism on campuses in the United States is reminiscent of what happened in German universities in the 1930s. The world cannot stand idly by.”
Washington — House Speaker Mike Johnson was met with loud boos when he visited Columbia University on Wednesday to call for the resignation of the institution's president as the campus has been roiled with accusations of antisemitism amid ongoing pro-Palestinian protests.
"Our feeling is that they have not acted to restore order on the campus," he said. "This is dangerous. This is not free expression. This is not First Amendment. They are threatening, intimidating."
Johnson, who also met with Jewish students before his remarks, said he planned to call President Biden later Wednesday to urge him to take action, adding that the National Guard may need to be deployed.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/house-speaker-mike-johnson-columbia-university-visit/
“I do feel a somewhat unique responsibility to speak out when I see this level of antisemitism on our campuses and in our communities,” the Pennsylvania governor said.
Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro on Wednesday denounced universities for failing to guarantee the safety of students as some protests over the Israel-Hamas war have turned confrontational and led to antisemitic incidents.
“What we’re seeing at Columbia and what we’re seeing in some campuses across America, where universities can’t guarantee the safety and security of their students, it’s absolutely unacceptable,” Shapiro said in exclusive comments to POLITICO reporters.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/josh-shapiro-campus-protests-latest-00154157
The Department of Education is probing claims that the school discriminated against Palestinian and Arab students amid Israel’s war on Gaza.
https://theintercept.com/2024/04/24/umass-amherst-palestine-protests-harassment/
Bernie Sanders (Jewish lib) disagrees with Netanyahu regarding whether or not criticizing Israel’s policies/leaders is necessarily anti-Semitic. I feel Bernie is right even when keeping in mind an unknown portion killed/wounded being Hamas and keeping in mind their use of human shields making it extra difficult for the IDF to distinguish between Hamas and non-Hamas. I, myself, don’t like Bibi and his over aggressiveness and thus wish he would resign. But one needs to pay attention to the wording of the criticisms (nuance) as there are many of course who criticize Israel who are genuine anti-Semites. In summary, it is a very complex situation:
Thanks much, Larry!
We agree on Netanyahu!
I want Israel to do well and have always had a special fondness of and admiration for Jewish people.
That has not changed but its extremely difficult to not have that erode slightly because of the current situation in Gaza and my recent history lessons of the past which updated my previous indoctrination.
Regardless of that, nothing will ever make the slightest dent in my personal friendships which are completely independent of the others race, religion or political affiliation. That includes people that post here, especially when we disagree.
The strongest friendships can weather strong disagreements at times. They don’t hold grudges and they should avoid personal attacks.
Mutual respect and thinking about the other persons positives not there negatives And flaws.
There are some people in this world that I would never want to be friends with…….ever!
Tolerance and avoiding make the most sense then but not hatred.
Sadly, the hatred targeting Jewish (Muslim) people is the complete opposite.
The entire dysfunctional relationship is based on having a disagreement. Or a difference in their skin color, religion, nationality and especially politics.
They intentionally target people, using those metrics to determine what the relationship will be……..instead of commonalities.
7 days of Antisemitic hatred at Columbia Univ:
THANKS, Larry!
I especially appreciate this from you, since you are a Jew that practices his faith.
Im not Jewish, so it’s not me being targeted but thats a most important point for everybody. We should try to imagine what its like to be hated and targeted like this and speak out against it.
When we don’t actually know people being hurt, it’s easy to overlook injustice. To be indifferent and complacent. Not be bothered too much, Because what doesn’t impact us or people that we care about isn’t as important to us personally as things that impact people we personally care about.
For instance, most of us are just reading about or watching it on the news reports and not experiencing it in any way. We feel totally UN threatened by it because we can go out in the world and not worry about being targeted by hate groups who want to hurt us emotionally and potentially physically.
Most sadly, they don’t even know a thing about us personally or care about anything that defines who we are except that we are Jewish or Muslim or black or a democrat Or MAGA.
It would be like lining up 1,000 people and asking them what their nationality or religion is To determine how we feel about them.
1. You’re Jewish? OK, then I hate you.
2. You’re Catholic? You’re one of us and we’re good.
3. You belong to MAGA? i hate MAGA and you’re one of them!
4. Or, You belong to MAGA? you’re one of us. We“ll make great friends reinforcing MAGA commonalities with each other. and trashing far left libtards.
It’s tribalism on steroids which is creating a divide as big as the Grand Canyon in this country!
We associate with people like ourselves and shun people that are different. That’s actually a natural thing that makes sense.
Christians talking about their religion will often derive pleasure/reward from discussing teachings from the New Testament. Muslims the Qur’an and Jews, the Torah and Tanakh. This is a good thing.
That cant be experienced to the same extent with people of a different religion.
For huge sports fans, if you’ve lived in Atlanta your entire life, you’re more likely to have shared experiences with another person from Atlanta. This is a good thing.
We seek out birds of a feather for natural reasons that connect us with common bonds.Nothing wrong with this.
When we have a grain thread at MarketForuM, producers and people that trade grains are most interested because its part of their lives. This is a good thing.
sometimes, heated rivalries in sports evolve into pathological relationships with the rivals. Things can get ugly and good sportsmanship goes out the window because of being obsessed with competitiveness that trumps mutual respect.
A similar mentality can exist in other realms. Your religion or your nationality or your political party or your country is not just the best but is placed on a high pedi stole with much greater value assigned to everything defining what you believe and sadly, often less value for the lives of human beings that don’t belong to your ‘tribe’.
We’re seeing it with antisemitism at college campuses where it’s obvious because Jews are the targets. Its most obvious in Gaza where innocent people are actually being killed because of it.
It’s more subtle in Ukraine. We have been convinced to believe we’re helping Ukrainians but are so detached and uninformed and uncaring because it’s not OUR brave soldiers dying or people in OUR family that are part of the hundreds of thousands that we dehumanize and treat like pawns or units WHOSE LIVES ARE DISPENSABLE FOR THE CAUSE THAT WE DECIDE THEY SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR.instead of human beings going thru widespread unthinkable suffering that we would never tolerate for ourselves or our loved ones.
A death and destruction, real world scenario that would be totally unacceptable for fellow Americans but is ok for Non Americans.
Sorry for the latest dissertation.
What I wanted to do is ask you, Larry how this massive increase in antisemitism in recent months makes you and other Jewish people feel Personally?
Hey Mike,
I’m aware that there have always been anti-Semites all around even if not a big % of folks. I tend to keep to myself and thus don’t normally openly advertise personal info to strangers, on the internet (as you know), etc. But I’ve still in especially the distant past been the recipient of some AS comments including even from people I knew at the time. This was mainly from coworkers including one way back when with whom I was and still continued to be friendly even afterward. Fortunately I never responded with anger and just sort of ignored the comments/didn’t treat them seriously. I figured the best thing to do was to set a good example and show I’m just a “normal” (whatever that means) person.
Regarding my views on Bibi: while some relatives agree I do have disagreements with some close relatives, who I feel are more myopic and/or ignorant on this issue though some of them are young. But we’re all entitled to our views whatever they are. Regardless, I haven’t been shy to them about sharing my feelings about Bibi, saying Israeli PR is by far the worst I could remember, etc. I’ve heard them say Biden hasn’t supported Israel enough even though I respond by telling them he actually has been supportive despite Bibi being too aggressive. One is an on again, off again, on again Trump fan (literally) and won’t accept anything I say “good” about Biden since this person is now back to on again Trump supporter.
Thanks for that, Larry!
With the war in Ukraine, the solution is actually a no brainer. Negotiate peace with Russia.
Stop the NATO and US politician/media bs AND NEGOTIATE WITH PUTIN and give the people in Ukraine (and Russia) peace as they have been pleading for.
In the Middle East........wow. No matter how optimistic one is, any potential long term, effective solutions appear to be pipe dreams.
For sure, what Netanyahu is doing now is making it MUCH worse, not better.
Worse over there. Worse over here.
For instance, a year ago did we have this chaos going on in the US?
Hamas started in with what they did on Oct. 7th for sure but Netanyahu's reaction has made it MUCH worse.
Regardless of our own positions. Even Netanyahu's strongest supporters have to admit that antisemitism is at record high levels around the world and something like 95% of the people disagree with his tactics.
Do you want to reign all this negativity in?
Reign in Netanyahu and what he's doing in Gaza.
If a person doesn't want stand for that.............then they MUST STILL accept the consequences..........a robust message from upset people to his tactics that violate most ethical standards.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
You can't have Netanyahu doing this and also and avoid this sort of reaction, that sadly is in the form of antisemitism.
It's one or the other.
Either Netanyahu changes his tune or gets kicked out of office or this will probably get WORSE not better.
There is NO reason to think it will get better when everything points to it getting worse. Trying to reign it in will be counterproductive for the following reason:
These people are extremely upset and strongly expressing themselves with a message that they feel is not being heard and they feel needs stronger measures to hear it.
Trying to shut them up and not hearing their message will only reinforce why they are so upset and doing it now. That one side that dominates politics and the media in the US wants to shut them up and is making bad decisions for Palestinians with no accountability.
Its not an easy choice. Paying attention to their messages might be positive reinforcement and actually making it worse, according to 1 position.
What I would do, seriously on these campuses is establish student organizations that have RESPONSIBLE leaders from both sides that are committed to getting along and hearing each other messages.
Then, make a tremendous effort for those organizations to be elevated to prominance and feature large memberships from both sides. With meetings geared towards living in peace AND SINCERELY HEARING THE OTHER SIDE.
The objective would not be to change the others sides mind, which will never happen. Or even to change the policies of the university or United States which might not happen.
The entire objective would be to learn to accept and respect other people that will always have an opinion that is the polar opposite of yours. Not accept injustices. Continue to fight against those but learn that you will open more minds by respecting people that you disagree with.
That could be applied in all of politics. They could call the organization: "Harmony".
Be the start of healing the massive and growing divide in this country!
Again, it would take good, open minded, peace desiring leadership that could be helped by faculty that serve as the teachers/mentors in higher education.
This will attract extremists and activists but the organizations must have a top mission of NOT letting people like that control the mentality.
Other than that, you'll just get 2 opposing sides that defend their side and vilify the other one for having the opposite position and not hearing THEIR message.
A recipe for failure!
Larry just copied a wonderful post that deserves to especially be posted in this thread:
Re: Iran responds to Israel's unprovoked attack
By WxFollower - April 29, 2024, 5:51 p.m.
I agree with much of what this lib Muslim (with Jewish dad/sis/deceased best friend) says except when he says protests are supposed to cause inconvenience including blocking traffic. Blocking traffic shouldn’t be allowed because that, for example, could have included an ambulance with my bro in it.
But otherwise, I think is mainly good stuff:
From Columbia Pres. 4/29/24:
https://president.columbia.edu/news/statement-columbia-university-president-minouche-shafik-4-29
“Fourth, our values—as well as our duties under civil rights laws—compel us to condemn hate and to protect every member of our community from harassment and discrimination. Antisemitic language and actions are unacceptable and calls for violence are simply abhorrent.
I know that many of our Jewish students, and other students as well, have found the atmosphere intolerable in recent weeks. Many have left campus, and that is a tragedy. To those students and their families, I want to say to you clearly: You are a valued part of the Columbia community. This is your campus too. We are committed to making Columbia safe for everyone, and to ensuring that you feel welcome and valued.”
Thanks very much, Larry.
It's interesting that nationwide protesting in the past has always featured 2 strongly opposed sides which is exactly what inspired the protesting..............one side that feels compelled to speak out/act to stop an injustice to humanity because the other side is the problem for enabling and causing the injustice.
The Vietnam War, Civil Rights movement, George Floyd RIOTS are noteworthy examples.
MLK set the gold standard for peaceful protesting that didn't threaten others (much of the times0 but his groups did cause disruptions and led to thousands being arrested. In retrospect, almost everybody agrees with what he did today, even though at the time, many people that were inconvenienced were outraged.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights_movement
However, the outrage of people during this era of people that supported his cause lead to some EXTREME reactions by those rioting.
I'm especially familiar with this one because it was 3.5 miles northeast of our house, when I was 11 years old:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot
This riot was completely COUNTER productive for shaping public opinion and for the cause of Civil Rights.
The BLM protesting that led to riots were also for Civil Rights. Same cause as MLK but the quintessential example of how NOT TO protest........but now, we have a National Holiday in honor of the cause for that rioting.
Juneteenth
Started by metmike - June 16, 2022, 7:28 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85870/
The irony of arresting Gaza protestors at USF’s MLK Plaza | Letters
Here’s what readers are saying in Wednesday’s letters to the editor.
https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2024/05/01/irony-arresting-gaza-protestors-usfs-mlk-plaza-letters/
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From Amnesty International:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/freedom-of-expression/protest/
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So this time, we have another just cause(with 10s of millions that disagree, some strongly with the cause-which IS the problem) and a group that sincerely wants to send a message to help STOP our participation in the atrocities going on in Palestine/Gaza.
The success, like in the past is tied to how the media portrays the cause and the protesters.
The George Floyd cause(with mostly sincere protesters) that did so much damage from the dozens of violent riots......got widespread positive coverage and support by most MSM sources...despite the tremendous counterproductive and hate/attack law enforcement messages.
Now we have a Juneteenth holiday and SOME positive changes with how cops treat minorities............but at the same time, some really bad bad things for the law enforcement community and racial relations got WORSE not better.
With these pro Gaza protests, they are almost all very peaceful but the media coverage is the polar opposite of the George Floyd violent rioting(that most of the media strongly backed).
This time, most of the media backs Israel and what the US is doing to support Israel with its pro Israel position, so all the bad things related to this protesting is getting overweighted coverage...........and almost NEVER the cause.
The media is not behind this cause. In the past, I've made the case that the media and politicians are overly influenced by the powerful Jewish coalition in our country.
It's pretty crazy that the George Floyds riots were twisted to be good and these mostly peaceful protesters with a just cause and almost no harm physical harm to others are deemed to be bad.
I am very strongly opposed to antisemism in every way, shape and form which is why I started this thread with that title............so there would be no misinterpreting my mindset with posts like this.
But I strongly agree with the cause of these protesters.
People that are strongly pro Israel will not get this. Fox news has constantly insisted that Israel is doing nothing wrong in Gaza and is only defending itself.
I'm actually very pro Israel which is one of the biggest reasons that I want their collective punishment and ethnic cleansing to end.........NOW!
95% of the world is outraged at Israel. They are destroying their credibility and the support they did have and could have if Netanyahu wasn't taking them down the diabolical path of committing horrific war atrocities.
The pro Israel side is blindly defending Israel because Israel is our ally and controls propaganda messages (like at FOX refusing to hear the other sides JUST CAUSE)
But they are defending the WRONG side on THIS particular issue pertaining to Gaza.
So, what should these people do?
This topic is getting a pro Israel slant by the media.
These protests are getting mostly negative coverage from the media.
The media controls peoples thinking.
Should the protesters just give up, stay home or go to class without inconveniencing others?
I'm serious and its because I feel extremely strong that their cause is just. What should they do? Because NOT doing this, for sure means no chance for the US or Universities to change a policy thats violating the human rights of millions in Palestine/Gaza.
Unfortunately, because they don't have the media on their side so doing this is portrayed as a COUNTER productive effort, so its potentially making things worse.
This really is an example of how the media can control the way Americans think.
Hey Mike,
I thought this thread’s main goal was supposed to be discussing anti-Semitism (especially in the US)(I appreciate you starting it) as opposed to the highly questionable aggressiveness of the Israeli leadership, which is already covered in other thread(s) and the idea about a supposed pro-Israel US media bias. Otherwise, why even have this thread? That’s why I posted what I did about Columbia Univ. There’s apparently really been a lot of very nasty things said aimed at Jewish students there and at other universities making them feel uncomfortable and even threatened for their safety just because of being Jewish. I’ve been reading that outside agitators are not surprisingly getting heavily into the mix (like was supposedly done during the BLM protests/riots) trying to change pro-Palestinian protests from largely peaceful to more violent/anti-Semitic/riots.
The head of Columbia, who I posted about for her 4/29/24 comments, is actually of Egyptian-Muslim background in case you didn’t know:
Thanks, Larry!
I completely get that and will try to emphasize how wrong antisemitism is more but the REASON for the antisemitism matters here.
You can't stamp out or manage a problem without understanding what's causing the problem.
You and me and the media and the government and the Universities/law enforcement can speculate on what should be done to stop this surge in antisemitism but we are all wasting our time because the profound change that's inspiring this massive surge in antisemitism is what Israel is doing in Gaza right now.
The most effective way to suck the life out of the movement is for the reason feeding their outrage to go away. Not recognizing this is to have our heads in the sand.
Since we can't control that, we can still discuss everything else related to this topic and continue to stress the wrongs of antisemitism at all times but these people are upset about something legit and its just not going away.
I will repeat that they should NOT be blaming Jewish people living in the United States or even people that support what's going on in Gaza. Everybody has the right to an opinion, even if its wrong and especially if we disagree with them.
Nobody should ever be threatened/intimidated or discriminated against because of their nationality. skin color, religion or political affiliation. This is a violation of their civil rights.
As mentioned, a huge reason that I'm against whats going on in Gaza is because I'm PRO Israel and want the best for Israel and its future.
I'm REALLY, REALLY PRO JEWISH PEOPLE LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES(that aren't tied to corruption or bad policies-and I'm just as much against NON Jews that meet that description).
Stopping the atrocities in Gaza would be 100 times more effective at reigning in the surge in antisemitism than anything else.
Stopping the contributions that the US government provides and the enabling it provides to these war atrocities would be just as effective.
These people have a valid cause but the question is still, what should they be doing, if not this?
Personally, I feel very uncomfortable supporting their methods, even though I support their cause. And of course, the ones that profess antisemitism beliefs get the strongest condemnation that I can express.
It's because of the antisemitism taking place at these protests that I feel uncomfortable supporting them. I will repeat too, that the media has decided to make the antisemitism the most important narrative in their reporting, instead of their cause.
Any antisemitism is wrong under ALL circumstances, so don't get me wrong when I report the media's current interpretation.
By metmike - May 1, 2024, 5:09 p.m.
" Just to let you know, I started this SPECIFIC thread on October 17, 2023, in a large part as a response to the attack on Israel by Hamas BEFORE the response in Gaza became the focus!
Same messages as in many previous threads/posts but trying to make them more compelling here."
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Hate(and love)
16 responses |
Started by metmike - Oct. 17, 2023, 4:15 p.m.
We have 2 diametrically opposed sides that are only focusing on what THE OTHER SIDE is doing wrong.
1. 1 side is outraged with the atrocities in Gaza and US involvement.
2. The other side is outraged with side 1 because of the way they are expressing that outrage....... antisemitism messages and disrupting college campuses.
3. Neither side acknowledges that they are doing anything wrong or that the other side has good points. Just the opposite.
That's the recipe for it to GET WORSE!.
Side 1's messages are getting completely rejected and they appear quite determined to be heard.
Side 2 is determined to stop Side 1, not by hearing them and taking actions they want but instead by crushing their protests and right to express themselves, which will just outrage Side 1 even more by proving their points.
Everybody agrees that we want things to get better and
1. For the war in Gaza to end
2. For the protests to end
There is only 1 man who controls that. Netanyahu MUST be removed from office or do a 180 degree turn with his actions.
There is a near 0% chance that Biden and his advisors don't know this. The United States must do everything in its power to get Netanyahu out of office ASAP!!!
Sending them more bombs and support was the wrong message.
However, Biden knows that in this very close election, this issue could cost him the presidency. That's what matters the most TO HIM.
If the war in Gaza ends, Biden gets a big boost in support immediately. Between now and November, he will be extraordinarily motivated by this.
I think that its good for law enforcement and college campuses to clamp down on this protesting. With classes ending in a couple of weeks, the disruptions will not be as great but those students are NOT going to suddenly vanish because of the school calendar.
There is the real possibility that this could spread and increase the chaos and hatred and the 2 sides talking past each other with no hope of a resolution because we can't provide one.
The resolution is with the 1 man responsible.
Don't forget, ~95% of the world agrees with what I just stated. There are 100 Muslims to every Jew on this planet. So this is expected by the world.........except in Jewish-centric Israel and the United States.
Again, I am very pro Israel and pro Jewish people in the US but want to focus on being real while still strongly denouncing antisemitism.
MY 2 CENTS WORTH........... I RARELY PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THE ISRAEL / GAZA, ANYMORE. SAME WITH RUSSIA / UKRAINE.
I DO PAY ATTENTION TO THE ANTISEMITISM, IN MY OWN COUNTRY (USA). IF I HAD MY WAY WITH THE COLLEGES... EVERYONE CHANTING "DEATH TO AMERICA" OR SPEWING THEIR ETHNIC HATRED, WOULD BE IMMEDIATELY REMOVED FROM THE ROSTER & THE CAMPUS. AMERICAN CITIZENS WOULD BE SENT TO GITMO TO "CHILL OUT" FOR AT LEAST A DECADE. & THE NON-CITIZENS WOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE COUNTRY & NEVER ALLOWED BACK IN. BOTH GROUPS WOULD BE PUT ON THE TERRORIST LIST...AND, GIVEN A HEFTY FINE
Following up on the last post and how to stop it.
The war in Gaza has always been a big thorn in Biden's side but this takes it to a new level and REALLY threatens his election campaign.
This protests were not expected a month ago and is potentially costing Biden many more votes, the longer it goes on.
This can't go on in Gaza forever and we have the ICC threatening to put out arrest warrants for Netanyahu for his war crimes in addition to this and widespread, increasing global outrage.
I'm convinced that there are extremely persuasive arguments and offers being pitched to Netanyahu to change something NOW to keep everything from completely collapsing around him now and instead, for him to back out.
He's reached the end of the line for his war crimes in Gaza with impunity and no consequences, other than ~95% of the world being outraged and powerless to stop him.
It's the beginning of the end for him, I hope.
And with that, more peace. It won't come close to fixing the impossible situation in the Middle East but it will stop the escalating damage and the motivation that some are using for the escalating antisemitism.
No matter how we address these protestors, the only way to make them stop is to stop Netanyahu. Same thing with the rest of the world. These protesters represent the VAST majority of views in the world. Those people are becoming more outraged NOT less. It's only a matter of time.
Before the election is the time Biden and the Ds need.
I see your points, Jean.
How can a person living in the US chant "death to America" and be taken seriously? rhetorical question (-:
Like you, I bash the heck out of corrupt politicians, media, presidents and bad policies in the United States.......because I LOVE MY COUNTRY and want those bad apples to be held accountable for wrecking it.
It's a good thing to protest because you want a positive change to HELP make things better.
It's a bad thing to protest to try to destroy the United States or other entities/institutions that are corrupted with bad people.
Fight against those really bad people to help those entities to better serve people.
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Get Netanyahu and those in his party that align with his bad ideas out of office in Israel to restore some credibility to HELP ISRAEL!
And to stop the rampant, abhorrent antisemitism in the United States right now!!
WOW to Bernie!
He is out to lunch on the beneficial gas, CO2 destroying the planet but his speech brought tears to my eyes several times!
He's obviously not a scientist but he sure as heck understands HUMAN RIGHTS!
He is a Jewish man that cares about Israel and Jewish people but puts human beings FIRST.
We should keep in mind that what triggered this on college campuses was the US aid package that also included Ukraine(which had me especially fired up).
Bernie's great speech has me fired up more for this issue again!
We should be thinking about these children and families in the pictures X 1,000!
The horrific Genocide ramps up
Started by metmike - Feb. 20, 2024, 7:22 p.m.
WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS: WHY ARE SO MANY JEWISH AMERICANS SO LIBERAL... AND, DON'T CARE FOR ISRAEL? (OR, HAVE I MISSED A SEA CHANGE IN THEM?)
It’s interesting that Jewish people that hated Fox for years suddenly started watching
6 months ago because of the pro Israel coverage there.
Jean said: WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS: WHY ARE SO MANY JEWISH AMERICANS SO LIBERAL... AND, DON'T CARE FOR ISRAEL? (OR, HAVE I MISSED A SEA CHANGE IN THEM?)
Hey Jean,
Great Q’s! The majority of Jewish Americans have been lib Dems as long as I can recall. I think it has to do with empathy for bigotry against the economically disadvantaged and minorities because many Jews have been the victims of terrible bigotry for many centuries, themselves. They’re an ethnic minority.
However, similar to religious Christians, the more religious Jews have tended to be much more con Pubs, especially in recent years.
Regarding Israel, it isn’t that many lib Jewish Americans like Bernie “don’t care for Israel”. It‘s much more that they don’t care for the Bibi administration because it is on the right and supported by far right wing Israeli parties, a terrible fit for lib Jews of the US. Bibi is like Israel’s Trump to an extent. Libs don’t like either.
Included in this is that that many far right Israelis currently have limited empathy for the innocent Palestinians. Lib Jews like Bernie just like libs in general tend to have more empathy than others for downtrodden groups anywhere in the world.
Lib Jews want Bibi out of office ASAP with the hope a more moderate PM/admin/coalition would be elected. If so, most of the libs would likely go back to strong support of Israeli policies/leaders like was the case for Golda, Rabin, Peres, Barak, etc.
But many con US Jews love the Bibi admin just like they love Trump. Many of them don’t want Bibi to go. Many lib Jewish Americans hate Bibi for similar reasons that they hate Trump.
In summary, Jewish American views about Israel and other issues are nowhere near a monolith! Bernie and, say, Alan Dershowitz are on near opposite sides with regard to Israeli policy these days.
Does this all make sense?
Thanks very much, Larry.
Great comments!
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/jewish-americans-in-2020/
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THANKS, LARRY. I SHALL RETURN
I'M ON MY WAY OUT TO TRY & GET SOME OF MY YARD MOWED, W/O GETTIN' STUCK IN THE RAIN SOAKED MUD.
https://www.newsweek.com/mainstream-media-biased-against-israel-i-know-i-was-part-it-opinion-1898058
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It's the complete opposite of what he wants us to believe.
It's as if we are having record floods and this guy is telling us there's actually a drought.........because he's selling irrigation systems (-:
This is the truth below:
Mainstream media has joined US power elites in demonising pro-Palestinian encampments on campuses.
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Fox has gone 7 months now, telling us every day that Israel is defending itself and doing nothing wrong in Gaza and that Netanyahu is a brave leader/hero.
How brave is it to kill or injure 5% of the population of 2 million people, mostly children and women? To starve them to death? Deprive them of water, power? Destroy their homes, schools, hospitals.
And if people protest this.........it's antisemitism?
And the media declaring it's antisemitism, according to the first guy, are antisemitic????
LARRY.... I FINALLY FOUND SOME TIME TO READ YOUR LINK. IT, TOO, IS CONFUSING. I'LL LISTEN TO IT... MAYBE, A LITTLE MORE WILL SINK IN. LOL
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MIKE.... DIDN'T ISRAEL RECENTLY BLOCK ALJAZEERA?
"MIKE.... DIDN'T ISRAEL RECENTLY BLOCK ALJAZEERA?'
You bet they did, Jean! Great job, bringing this up!
Censoring them so the people will only hear/read propaganda, like we are getting here in the United States too.
Israel is killing Palestinian journalists, banning foreign media from reporting on Gaza – and losing credibility.
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https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/91363
The Qatari state-owned media network has long been subject to American and Israeli attacks for its unfavorable coverage.
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/07/israel-al-jazeera-us-tiktok-ban
What the two laws have in common is desire to silence Israel-Gaza war critics
Defenders of Israel love to call it the Middle East’s only democracy. But democracies don’t censor the press
https://forward.com/opinion/599095/al-jazeera-israel-ban-authoritarianism/
This is why, as a genocide continues unabated in Gaza, we all have a responsibility to insert ‘Palestine’ and ‘Palestinians’ into every conversation.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/3/20/censorship-is-a-crucial-complement-of-genocide
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https://www.juancole.com/2024/05/jazeera-journalists-repressive.html
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From the US to Europe to India, users and activists say the world’s largest social media platforms are curtailing the reach of content critical of Israel.
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Report: Blinken Urged Qatar to Censor Al Jazeera Coverage of Gaza Genocide
The outlet has been a crucial source of on-the-ground reporting from Gaza.
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metmike: They've been doing it with the Ukraine war for well over 2 years. They've been doing it with the fake climate crisis for 3 decades. They're doing it with Israel's atrocities. Propaganda on news/social media sites to steal our intelligence and brainwash us.
https://www.newsweek.com/israel-gaza-humanitarian-aid-blocked-tzav-9-1900035
https://www.timesofisrael.com/right-wing-activists-block-vandalize-aid-shipment-headed-to-gaza/
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What sort of a message does this send about Israel?
Again, I vehemently condemn ALL anti antisemitism in every way, shape and form. Despite the fact that our politicians and media have the WRONG messaging and are backing genocide and people here buy into the propaganda. People have the God given right to get brainwashed by elite gatekeepers using propaganda controlled by the bought and paid for politicians and media. And the right to practice their religion freely and to be born with a nationality or skin color.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/103967/#103973
Far-right Finance Minister, Bezalel Smotrich, accused the ICC of anti-Semitism, saying the application showed “hypocrisy and hatred of Jews like that display by the Court in the Hague since Nazi propaganda.”
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I've made it crystal clear how strongly I oppose REAL antisemitism.
The criminals and defenders of Israel's/Netanyahu's crimes, in Israel and the US are doing a massive disservice to themselves here by creating an antisemitism narrative.
Regardless of the situation/realm in life, when an entity constantly invokes a position of unjust treatment of their people or for their cause..........no matter what the REAL circumstances are ........it causes them to lose their credibility.
Claiming that EVERYTHING is antisemitism for political convenience results in people being unable to distinguish between REAL antisemitism and the fake political antisemitism.
When people recognize that THIS is FAKE antisemitism, the sources of the propaganda are busted. They lose credibility and targets of the propaganda, assume afterwards that those sources can't be trusted anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf
However, when dealing with the moral behaviour of adults, Samuel Croxall asks, referencing political alarmism, "when we are alarmed with imaginary dangers in respect of the public, till the cry grows quite stale and threadbare, how can it be expected we should know when to guard ourselves against real ones?"[12]
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On this particular topic, Netanyahu, Israel, Fox and others have completely obliterated every semblance of credibility. It's impossible to believe anything they state because they've been busted for blatantly lying hundreds of times the past 7 months.
People that believe their manure WANT TO believe it or are gullible to believe it.
The believers are not bad people but are dead wrong based on the most basic ethical standards. They are usually, either biased or naive. The powerful gate keeping/elites.......perpetrators in government and the media that are intentionally brainwashing millions for their self enriching/serving interests are the evil ones.
Thomas Sowell Interview , "Social Justice Fallacies"
Started by cutworm - Dec. 18, 2023, 6:19 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/101353/
“Some things are believed because they are demonstrably true. But many other things are believed simply because they have been asserted repeatedly—and repetition has been accepted as a substitute for evidence.”
https://www.newsweek.com/stop-excluding-jews-california-juries-opinion-1902696
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw4490z75v3o
Mr Khan, he said, was like judges in Nazi Germany who denied Jews basic rights and enabled the Holocaust. His decision to seek arrest warrants against Israel’s prime minister and defence minister was "callously pouring gasoline on the fires of antisemitism that are raging around the world.’
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"callously pouring gasoline on the fires of antisemitism that are raging around the world."
Earth to Israel/US/Netanyahu!
Immediately after the horrific Oct. 7, 2023 atrocity, most of the world rallied to support Israel and condemn Hamas.
But then, Netanyahu/Israel committed a relentless, ongoing campaign of atrocities that are 100+ times WORSE than the atrocity that occurred that day.
Antisemitism continues to soar higher BECAUSE OF those horrific crimes against humanity in Gaza as the world grapples with holding Israel accountable for those unimaginable crimes.
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I'll remind everyone here of my fondness and respect for Jewish people PRIOR to this war:
Jewish People
10 responses |
Started by joj - Aug. 21, 2023, 7:43 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/98420/
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The solutions that will stop the rapidly increasing damage to Israel's credibility and increase their chances of a future existence with a robust economy and semblance of peace are:
1. Stop the war in Gaza ASAP!
2. Remove Netanyahu from office ASAP. Resume the criminal prosecution of his previous crimes.
3. Discuss/plan a 2 state solution for Palestine.
Israel/United States entities fighting against these items are just continuing to wreck Israels credibility and future for something that is probably inevitable in the long run.
The question is.............how bad will it need to be for Israel before they finally concede?
95% of the world agrees with me on this.
There are 100 Muslims to every Jew in the world.
How long can advanced technologies/militaries hold on to the ethically and politically wrong solutions, while they incur increasing damage?
Mike said:
“But then, Netanyahu/Israel committed a relentless, ongoing campaign of atrocities that are 100+ times WORSE than the atrocity that occurred that day.”
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Hey Mike,
I agree and have agreed for quite awhile as you know that Bibi has gone way overboard. And you know I don’t like him as leader. (Ironically, he reminds me of Trump with his catering to extremists and needing to be in power to avoid punishment for crimes.)
But I think you’re going way overboard in saying 100+ times worse. I guess you’re taking into account destruction of homes/buildings. So, based on that, I can see it. But based on fatalities, it isn’t even close to 100+ as that would mean ~120K+ Palestinians. Also, keep in mind that of those killed in Gaza, a portion are Hamas members and I’m confident that is much >4% of those deaths.
"But I think you’re going way overboard in saying 100+ times worse"
Thanks very much for bringing this up, Larry.
Actually, I was going extremely conservative and overall, the number is likely 1,000+ worse for most metrics.... and I'll prove it with the facts.
Cherry picking only deaths is completely ignoring or maybe not even realizing what is happening.
Addition: Larry also stated that he suspected that I was considering more than just deaths.
As mentioned previously, I stopped stating the death/injury count earlier this year because of the uncertainty and there's much, MUCH more going on than just killing of innocent people, most that are children and women.
1. How many children in Israel are out of school because of the attack on October 7th?
https://www.hi-us.org/en/news/all-the-children-in-gaza-are-out-of-school
According to OCHA, as of April 23, 625,000 students were without access to education in Gaza and, tragically, more than 6,417 students and 296 educational staff had been killed.
no spaces can be considered safe in Gaza today.
This absence of safe spaces hinders the provision of comprehensive support.
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45,000+ huge bombs will do a great deal of damage!!!
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2. How many people in Israel are without clean water because of the October 7th attack?
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.ca/gaza-lack-of-clean-water-brings-disease-and-suffering/
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https://www.anera.org/blog/water-sanitation-and-hygiene-infrastructure-under-attack-in-gaza/
95% of Gaza’s population has had no access to clean water for months
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3. How many people in Israel are without food because of the October 7th attack?
Devastating Accounts from Doctors, Parents; Reports of ‘Imminent’ Famine
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/09/gaza-israels-imposed-starvation-deadly-children
The WHO reported that the number of children under age 5 who are acutely malnourished has jumped from 0.8 percent before the hostilities in Gaza to between 12.4 and 16.5 percent in northern Gaza. Oxfam said on April 3 that since January, people in northern Gaza have been forced to survive on an average of 245 calories a day, “less than a can of fava beans.”
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4. How many people in Israel are without power because of the October 7th attack?
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5. How many people in Israel are without fuel because of October 7th?
6. How many hospitals in Israel were taken out on October 7th?
‘Israeli snipers are everywhere, shooting people in the corridors of the hospital and the entrance.’
After four months of war, none of the 36 hospitals in Gaza are fully functional any more. Medical facilities that remain partially functional are straining to treat large numbers of patients with limited supplies, according to the WHO. There have been more than 350 attacks on healthcare in Gaza since 7 October, the WHO said last week. Israel claims – without providing conclusive evidence – that Hamas uses hospitals for military purposes. Human rights groups have called for Israeli attacks on healthcare to be investigated as war crimes.
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7. How many homes in Israel were damaged or destroyed by Hamas on October 7th?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/world/middleeast/gaza-homes-rebuild-un-report.html
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By Alastair Mccready and Zaheena Rasheed
Published On 22 May 2024 22 May 2024
Mike said:
“Cherry picking only deaths is completely ignoring or maybe not even realizing what is happening.”
“Cherry picking only deaths”?
I wasn’t cherry picking but rather wanted clarification from you for the sake of all of the readers what you meant by “100+ times worse” because the metric of deaths, the most important single metric, is often reported on. I said to you and all of the readers that you couldn’t have meant deaths. You then confirmed that I was right. Thanks for that.
I also said that if you were talking about homes and buildings that I could see that being 100+ times worse. You confirmed that in addition to other things.
Yes, Larry it was a confirmation of you thinking that I meant more than deaths.
"Is this really an antisemitism thread?"
To me it sure is.
1. People are used to getting their news and discussions from echo chambers that tell them what they want to hear from 1 side. MarketForum as mentioned numerous times is an ANTI echo chamber. That being said, this thread expresses antisemitism opinions as well as abusing the "antisemitism/race card", which in my opinion is WRECKING and DISCREDITING the LEGIT antisemistim which is very pervasive in some parts of society.
2. Netanyahu, Fox and others that are blind, one sided pro Israel cheerleaders, abusing the term antisemism are making antisemitism MUCH MUCH WORSE which is being completely overlooked.
3. Here's why. People like me that want the best for Israel as a starting point, will not be as impacted because we interpret the facts as best possible for the best outcome for Israel. But how do you think it makes somebody feel, when they state the rock solid facts that I just stated on the previous post, when they are accused of antisemitism for stating it? If they are just trying to stop the horrific atrocities and ethnic cleansing happening in Gaza to human beings with a sincere heart and they are attacked and accused of antisemitism by the blind, powerful pro Israel cheerleaders? It CAUSES ANTISEMITISM HUGE TIME. This is why antisemitism has tripled in many places. It's much more than the crimes of Netanyahu/Israel. It's the response to people trying to stop the crimes. Calling the crimes "Israel defending itself" and attacking the people for recognizing and wanting to help humanity in Gaza. College students trying to get Colleges to divest away from investments in companies that make bombs or that support these unimaginable crimes and to speak out about these atrocities.........being mischaracterised and stereotyped as antisemitic. I will always speak out against antisemitism, including at these protests but these protests didn't start and are not about hating Jews. It's about stopping what I just posted clearly on the previous page........yet our media/government in the US and in Israel mischaracterize these people and attacks them as antisemitic instead of LISTENING TO their legit concerns. This is greatly adding to the antisemitism. Voices not being heard..........will just amplify their volume!
4. I consider you one of the most intelligent, objective and analytical people that I know as well as a friend.
5. I can see why you would question why this thread is really about antisemitism, if the expectation is to have only posts about antisemitism from a Jews perspective or somebody that's a Fox news follower or for that matter, most of the media in the United States......which is where WE get most of our information from.
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I was going to post this earlier but this is the perfect post for it:
https://www.newsweek.com/icc-sets-dangerous-precedent-democratic-nations-opinion-1902954
The facts stand in stark contrast to the prosecutor's claims. Humanitarian aid flows into Gaza by air, sea, and land. Israel does everything possible to prevent famine or an international crisis. No country has ever taken such measures in the history of warfare. Yet, Israel is still under attack. This baseless accusation echoes the ancient blood libels and is nothing short of antisemitism.
The ICC, in its current decision, has lost all moral authority. It has chosen to stand on the wrong side of history and offer indirect support to terrorists. We will stand firm and continue to defend our security and sovereignty. This disgraceful act will not go unanswered. History will judge those who chose to abandon justice and morality, and those who remained faithful to the true values of freedom and justice.
This is a call to all nations: awaken to the grave implications of this decision. Stand by Israel in its just struggle and do not allow such distortions of justice to undermine the foundations of international society.
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This is exactly the problem. People spouting complete hogwash/lies about the horrific war crimes, using words and selling it as information that pro Israel interests want to hear/read. PROPAGANDA. And often ABUSING the antisemitism/race card. Justifying the unjustifiable.
If somebody didn't know me, I could just be lumped into the category of everybody else with my opinion........another person that hates Jews. I greatly admire Jews/Israel. My position is based on seeking the BEST for their future. The truth about this is NEVER going away. 95% of the world knows the truth even if the majority in Israel and the United States can be manipulated by articles/opinions designed to HIDE the truth and protect the criminals.
Again, this is the truth:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/103460/#104138
This is how I feel about Jewish people:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/98420/
I should also remind readers that I was indoctrinated in Catholic School for 12 years and for the first 6 decades of my life to believe that the Jewish people are the descendants of God's chosen people, the Israelite's. Jesus was a Jew. It can't be understated how blatantly biased the mentality this created/creates when viewing the world, using religion to determine authenticity of people.
October 2023 onward has been one of the most painful periods of my life with regards to reconciling the stone cold facts in Gaza with my personal religious views. I spent many dozens of hours studying and learning the history of the Middle East, some of which was shared here. In the end, my views will always follow the scientific method, which by design, forces the scientist to try to prove their own theory wrong before having confidence in being right.
In this case, it provided insight into why many of my ASSUMPTIONS for 6 decades were WRONG, which then opened my mind to objective discernment as opposed to previous indoctrinated brainwashing.
This is NOT intended to bash my Catholic faith. I still greatly respect the many positive elements and how it has helped transform the world into a better place via the wonderful lessens from our bible.
Hey Mike,
Thanks for your response. I’m aware that overusing the word “antisemitism” (“AS”), just like overusing the word “racism”, tends to cheapen the value of the word. Even after recognizing that some of the supposed AS isn’t genuine AS, unfortunately there’s still massive amounts of genuine AS in the world just like there’s massive amount of genuine racism, sexism, Islamophobia, homophobia, ageism, etc.
A large portion of genuine AS is unfortunately likely to remain due to a major imperfection in human beings that controls the thoughts and actions of a good portion of them. This massive amount of AS has existed for many centuries as you know and thus predates the creation of the modern state of Israel by many centuries. Regardless of the highly questionable decisions of the leaders of Israel and what they decide to do in the future, a massive amount of AS will remain.
What Israeli leaders decide to do doesn’t represent the Jewish people overall. These decisions are largely political based as opposed to religious based. Bibi is going to be facing charges of corruption. The longer he stays in power, the longer being punished for the corruption is delayed.
A nontrivial portion of those protesting Israel’s actions were undoubtedly already antisemitic. They’re using Israel’s overaggression to their advantage and are hiding their true AS behind that.
Many of the protestors in the US/world are actually Jews for those who don’t realize it.
Thanks, Larry!
We both agree on some things, especially that Netanyahu needs to go ASAP!
What is your view on a two state solution?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/22/us/ms-rachel-gaza-social-media-cec/index.html
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My son, wife and I have watched all of Rachel's videos............many dozens of times with our 1 year grandson, Cyrus. Cy comes to our house 6 days a week.
This is an example of the tunnel vision, zealot thinking that attacks people of goodwill trying to help millions of vulnerable children in the world being horrifically victimized in ways that we can't imagine in our safe, comfortable homes, with all of our luxuries and children having all the benefits that include the education that NO CHILDREN IN GAZA WILL GET FOR YEARS.
Even as we watch these educational videos from Rachel with our precious 1 year old, it's hard to truly comprehend that millions of children in the world, including ALL OF THEM IN GAZA will never have the same opportunity.
And in GAZA, with most of their schools damaged or destroyed and no power in the country, this will last for many years. To claim that this element of many war crimes is Israel defending itself is gallactically wrong and blatantly immoral by all standards.
Re: Re: Re: : Antisemitism is WRONG!
Hey Mike,
I think we agree more than we disagree at least in a general sense.
Do I want a 2 state solution? You’ve asked this before in another thread and I answered it by saying “yes”. I’d like a viable one that could be agreed to on both sides. But I also said it is a pipe dream in the current environment (especially while Bibi is still in charge) and thus it is highly unlikely to occur anytime soon.
I want it but not with Hamas still in charge of the Palestinians! That’s a nonstarter for me as well as for most non-Palestinians and probably a decent portion of Palestinians, too, they know Hamas largely doesn’t value the lives of Palestinians.
Are you aware that a two state solution was originally in the plan in 1947, but that the Arabs didn’t like the plan and instead preferred to go to war with Israel in 1948 right after it was established (Israel won):
U.S. Central Intelligence AgencyThe U.N. 1947 partition plan for Palestine called for land to be parceled to Arabs and Jews.
On Nov. 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for Palestine to be partitioned between Arabs and Jews, allowing for the formation of the Jewish state of Israel.
Since 1917, Palestine had been under the control of Britain, which supported the creation of a Jewish state in the holy land. Sympathy for the Jewish cause grew during the genocide of European Jews during the Holocaust. In 1946, the Palestine issue was brought before the newly created United Nations, which drafted a partition plan.
The plan, which organized Palestine into three Jewish sections, four Arab sections and the internationally-administered city of Jerusalem, had strong support in Western nations as well as the Soviet Union. It was opposed by Arab nations.
The General Assembly voted, 33-13, in favor of partition, with 10 members, including Britain, abstaining. The six Arab nations in the General Assembly staged a walkout in protest. The New York Times reported: “The walkout of the Arab delegates was taken as a clear indication that the Palestinian Arabs would have nothing to do with the Assembly’s decision. The British have emphasized repeatedly that British troops could not be used to impose a settlement not acceptable to both Jews and Arabs, and the partition plan does not provide outside military force to keep order. Instead, it provides for the establishment of armed militia by the two nascent states to keep internal order.”
Six months later, on May 14, 1948, Jewish leaders in the region formed the state of Israel. British troops left, thousands of Palestinian Arabs fled and Arab armies invaded Israel. In the Arab-Israeli War, Israel defeated its enemies. It was the first of several wars fought between Israel and its neighbors.
Thanks, Larry.
Yes, I learned that late last year.
Seems like the Arabs are always unhappy with the conditions/terms and do things to trigger wars, which Israel always wins(like right now). After which, Israel often does things to make it even worse for the Arabs/Palestinians than they were before and Palestinians are even more upset.
Since they have 0 chance to win a war with Israel's MUCH stronger military and advanced technology, they resort to terrorism which empowers the little man and is almost impossible to stop.
There's MUCH more to it than that of course.
The decades of indoctrinated hate and mistrust, passed down thru generations can't be easily overcome. Maybe never.
Regardless, Israel winning this latest war in Gaza is doing MUCH, MUCH more to hurt Israel than to help them. Pro Israel sources want to deny/ignore that but the facts couldn't be more clear.
At the same time, they are decimating innocent human beings, mostly children and women. It's a lose-lose situation.
For those that insist that its needed to eliminate Hamas, it takes some extremely narrow minded thinking to ignore what Israel is INTENTIONALLY doing to decimate the entire population of mostly innocent people and over half being children and women.
Thanks for bringing up the history and yes, the Arabs have some blame for many things in the past but that should not be used as an excuse for collective punishment against 2 million, mostly innocent people, today in 2024.
Nor should the attack on October 7th be used as justification for blowing up Gaza to smithereens with 45,000 huge bombs..........then blatantly lying that Israel is doing everything possible to protect innocent people/civilians and lying about letting all the food and water in, blaming everybody else for why Gazan's aren't getting it.
This is 2024 and we can see with satellite images what Israel blew up. Schools, residential neighborhoods and non military targets FOR SURE. The excuse is always "Hamas was hiding there!"
Not many of us can imagine what its like with ZERO power. No heat or ac. NO LIGHT every night. No electronics. Basically going back in time 150 years but with no food and water.
This Summer is going to be extremely brutal when the heat waves hit. No air conditioning or fans and only dirty water to drink. Unlike our deserts that have very low humidity that allows for rapid cooling at night, Gaza, with the sea very close has higher humidity, a very high heat index and not much cooling at night.
https://www.npr.org/2024/04/27/1247486230/gaza-palestinians-heatwave-summer
Nowhere in Gaza is hotter than Rafah, at the territory's southern border along the edge of the Sinai desert. In summertime, daily high temperatures average in the mid-90s. Hot days regularly reach over 100 degrees.
+++++++++
As a side note, sorry to go off topic which is what I do...... for those that think we have a climate crisis:
The Not-So-Hidden Climate Risks for Gaza's Displaced
https://www.climate-refugees.org/spotlight/2023/1/11/gaza
Exclusive: First months of conflict produced more planet-warming gases than 20 climate-vulnerable nations do in a year, study shows
The climate costs of war and militaries can no longer be ignored
The US plays an oversized role in military carbon emissions – and supplies Israel with billions of dollars of military aid, weapons and other equipment that it deploys in Gaza and the West Bank.
By 4 December, at least 200 American cargo flights were reported to have delivered 10,000 tonnes of military equipment to Israel. The study found that the flights guzzled around 50m litres of aviation fuel, spewing an estimated 133,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere – more than the entire island of Grenada last year.
“The role of the US in the human and environmental destruction of Gaza cannot be overstated,” said co-author Patrick Bigger, research director at the thinktank CCP.
And not just in Gaza. In 2022, the US military reported that it generated an estimated 48m metric tonnes of CO2 , according to separate research by Neta Crawford, author of The Pentagon, Climate Change and War. This baseline military carbon footprint, which excludes emissions generated by attacks on Islamic State oil infrastructure in 2022, was higher than the annual emissions of 150 individual countries and territories including Norway, Ireland and Azerbaijan.
NOT TO VEER TOO FAR FROM THE BASIC SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD, BUT... I BELIEVE MY GRANDFATHER (BALLREICH) WAS A GERMAN JEW. HIS PARENTS CAME TO THE USA VIA LEGAL IMMIGRATION THRU ELLIS ISLAND IN THE MID 1800 ERA.
https://www.newsweek.com/want-divest-israel-better-get-rid-your-iphone-opinion-1904189
In the months since the Hamas pogrom of Oct. 7, Israel's exercise of its legitimate right of self-defense has resulted in a campaign of vilification against the Jewish State. Part of this onslaught against Israel is the renewed prominence of the BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) movement. Launched two decades ago, as Israel combated the terrorism of the Second Intifada, BDS once again serves as a potential weapon in the arsenal of those whose ultimate aim is to eliminate the Jewish state.
But we have been more than able to beat back this sinister movement.
++++++++++++++++++++++
People like this are exactly the problem. Not just denying horrific crimes but defining them as a right and stereotyping and mischaracterizing people like me(who are actually pro Israel), as antisemitic because we have the authentic facts and truth that completely contradicts him and his propaganda.
The Jewish coalition controls the United States and Israel propaganda on this and as a result, has manipulated people's thinking as so demonstrated by this article which is complete nonsense and attacks people with a legit cause instead of recognizing it. Claiming this current movement is nothing new and just part of the ongoing and always failing antisemitism the past 20 years.
Ya wanna bet? What's happening in Gaza is MUCH different than anything else experienced during that period. 95% of the world see it. Even some non brainwashed Jewish people see it. His ignoring, defending, enabling, colluding and attacking is EXACTLY WHAT'S HURTING ISRAEL the most.
I recognize it AND SPEAK OUT WITH AUTHENTIC FACTS for 2 reasons.
1. To rescue the 2 million innocent human beings being targeted.
2. To rescue Israel from the perils of destroying it's credibility and future because of an extreme agenda imposed in a way that has shocked, outraged, inspired hatred and also tremendous compassion for the victims.
Israel is winning this war on the ground in Gaza easily and winning the overall battle for support in the US and Israel.
In most of the other places on this huge planet they are losing badly and the losses mount every day.
Re: Re: Re: The horrific Genocide ramps up
By metmike - Feb. 25, 2024, 7:33 p.m.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/103460/#104138
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Nazi_rally_at_Madison_Square_Garden
On February 20, 1939, a Nazi rally took place at Madison Square Garden, organized by the German American Bund. More than 20,000 people attended, and Fritz Julius Kuhn was a featured speaker. The Bund billed the event, which took place two days before George Washington's Birthday, as a pro-"Americanism" rally; the stage at the event featured a huge Washington portrait with swastikas on each side.[1]
The German American Bund was a pro-Hitler organization in the United States before World War II. The group promoted Nazi propaganda in the United States, combining Nazi imagery with American patriotic imagery.
The event was highly choreographed in the fascist style, with uniformed Bund members carrying American and Nazi flags, the display of the Nazi salute (but this was problematic because at that time, the very similar Bellamy salute was used to salute the American flag, which was marched down the aisle at this event [8]), and the playing of martial music and German folk songs.
The rally began at 8 pm[2] with a rendition of "The Star-Spangled Banner", sung by Margarete Rittershaush. Next, James Wheeler-Hill, national secretary of the Bund, opened the night with the statement that "if George Washington were alive today, he would be friends with Adolf Hitler."[
Thanks much, Larry.
This helps provide great insight into the history of LEGIT REAL antisemitism that has existed for many decades in the United Stated.
There has never been any legit justification for this sort of hatred based on race/religion.
There actually is never any justification, even if a small number of people from that race are doing bad things.
I started this thread because of my support for Israel:
Hate(and love)
13 responses |
Started by metmike - Oct. 17, 2023, 4:15 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99752/
Here in 2024, we have a small number of Jewish people in Israel doing really bad things in Gaza. It's inspiring a massive wave of never seen before antisemitism in the United States and world WHICH IS GROWING!
I want to stop the bad people doing bad things in the name of Israel which will immediately have the strongest impact to stop the damage to Israels credibility and stop the growing antisemitism.
Even people that disagree with me about whether this is Israel defending itself, can't deny its THE source for the enormous escalation of growing antisemitism.
Watching this increasing antisemitism is painful for me and hurts even more when people like me are mischaracterized as being antisemitic.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/stories/articles/2023/5/8/henry-ford-innovator-and-antisemite
The man known for changing the auto industry also used his immense power and influence to quash unions, control immigrant workers and vilify Jewish people.
Ford used his leverage as an employer to try and aggressively socially engineer workers’ lives and “Americanize” those who had immigrated from elsewhere. Ford bitterly opposed labor unions, which he frequently described as a global Jewish conspiracy.
Indeed, as a vocal antisemite, he used his status as one of America's most well-known and trusted business leaders to systematically spread conspiracy theories about Jews. His screeds against Jewish people became so well-known at home and abroad that he is the only American whom Adolf Hitler compliments by name in Mein Kampf.
In 1920, Ford began publishing a weekly series called “The International Jew: The World’s Problem” on the paper’s front page. The series was based on an antisemitic hoax known as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which purported to reveal a global Jewish conspiracy for money and power.
Ford’s essays and booklets helped fuel antisemitism in the U.S. and abroad. Hitler was a fan of Ford’s antisemitic writing, mentioning the carmaker by name in his own 1925 anti-Jewish manifesto, Mein Kampf. In 1938, Germany awarded Ford the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the country’s highest medal for foreigners.
Thanks much, Larry!
As somebody that grew up in East Dearborn, 1/2 block from the Detroit border and worked numerous Summer and college part time jobs at Ford's Rouge complex and who's Dad was an industrial engineer for Ford at the Dearborn Assembly Plant for 39 years, our family knows a thing or 3 about Henry Ford.
Taxes from Ford to the city of Dearborn(allowing residents to have incredible benefits-for years, we even had city snow removal on all the sidewalks of residential areas), along with the tens of thousands of jobs and his amazing revolution in the car manufacturing business make him a person that is idolized by many.
But his antisemitism is not as well known by most people.
By complete coincidence today (because early Arab immigants moved to the South side of Dearborn for jobs at the Rouge complex) Dearborn (that some of nicknamed "The Middle East of North America) with its 35% Arab population has the only Arab mayor in the United States and strongest pro Palestinian faction.
The main streets where I grew up in East Dearborn has language on the signs of businesses in Arabic.
This is just a coincidence with regards to it also being the home of Henry Ford's Rouge Plant Complex.
Today, Dearborn has the largest % Arab/Muslim population in the United States.
I visit there several times a year to see my 98 year old dad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn,_Michigan
According to the city's 2022 Comprehensive Annual Financial Report,[50] the largest employers in the city are:
| # | Employer | # of employees |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ford Motor Company | 43,080 |
| 2 | Beaumont Health | 7,883 |
| 3 | School District of the City of Dearborn | 2,283 |
| 4 | AAA Michigan | 1,316 |
| 5 | Cleveland Cliffs - Dearborn Works | 1,290 |
| 6 | City of Dearborn | 1,068 |
| 7 | The Edison Institute (Henry Ford) | 747 |
| 8 | Carhartt Inc. | 616 |
| 9 | Hollingsworth Logistics Group | 550 |
| 10 | Ghafari Inc. | 442 |
https://reformjudaism.org/blog/henry-fords-apology
Here is an excerpt from Henry Ford's apology:
For some time past I have given consideration to the series of articles concerning Jews which since 1920 have appeared in The Dearborn Independent. Some of them have been reprinted in pamphlet form under the title "The International Jew." Although both publications are my property, it goes without saying that in the multitude of my activities it has been impossible for me to devote personal attention to their management or to keep informed as to their contents. It has therefore inevitably followed that the conduct and policies of these publications had to be delegated to men whom I placed in charge of them and upon whom I relied implicitly....
Those who know me can bear witness that it is not in my nature to inflict insult upon and to occasion pain to anybody, and that it has been my effort to free myself from prejudice. Because of that I frankly confess that I have been greatly shocked as a result of my study and examination of the files of The Dearborn Independent and of the pamphlets entitled "The International Jew." I deem it to be my duty as an honorable man to make amends for the wrong done to the Jews as fellow-men and brothers, by asking their forgiveness for the harm that I have unintentionally committed, by retracting so far as lies within my power the offensive charges laid at their door by these publications, and by giving them the unqualified assurance that henceforth they may look to me for friendship and goodwill...
It is needless to add that the pamphlets which have been distributed throughout the country and in foreign lands will be withdrawn from circulation, that in every way possible I will make it known that they have my unqualified disapproval, and that henceforth The Dearborn Independent will be conducted under such auspices that articles reflecting upon the Jews will never again appear in its columns.
Sources: Letter, Henry Ford, June 30, 1927, Rare Documents file, American Jewish Archives; Victoria Saker Woeste, "Insecure Equality: Louis Marshall, Henry Ford, and the Problem of Defamatory Antisemitism, 1920-1929," The Journal of American History (December 2004), p. 877-905; Neil Baldwin, Henry Ford and the Jews: The Mass Production of Hate (New York: Public Affairs, 2001), p. 142-146.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/lindbergh-fallen-hero/
In October 1938, Lindbergh was presented by Goering, on behalf of the Fuehrer, the Service Cross of the German Eagle for his contributions to aviation. News of Nazi persecution of Jews had been filtering out of Germany for some time, and many people were repulsed by the sight of an American hero wearing a Nazi decoration. Lindbergh, by all appearances, considered the medal to be just another commendation. No different than all the others.
Lindbergh delivered his first nationwide radio address in which he urged America to remain neutral. In the speech he criticized President Roosevelt, who believed the Nazis must be stopped in their conquest of Europe. Lindbergh saw Nazi victory as certain and thought America's attention should be placed elsewhere. "These wars in Europe are not wars in which our civilization is defending itself against some Asiatic intruder... This is not a question of banding together to defend the white race against foreign invasion." Building on his belief that "racial strength is vital," Lindbergh published an article in Reader's Digest stating, "That our civilization depends on a Western wall of race and arms which can hold back... the infiltration of inferior blood."
With his hero status already greatly tarnished by his philosophical and political beliefs, Lindbergh delivered a speech in Des Moines that fully knocked him off his pedestal. Announcing that it was time to "name names," Lindbergh decided to identify what he saw as the pressure groups pushing the U.S. into war against Germany. "The three most important groups who have been pressing this country toward war are the British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt Administration." Of the Jews, he went on to say, "Instead of agitating for war, Jews in this country should be opposing it in every way, for they will be the first to feel its consequences. Their greatest danger to this country lies in their large ownership and influence in our motion pictures, our press, our radio and our government." The speech was met with outrage from numerous quarters. Lindbergh was denounced as an anti-Semite. His mother-in-law and sister-in-law publicly opposed his views. Civic and corporate organizations cut all ties and affiliations with him. His name was even removed from the water tower in his hometown of Little Falls, Minnesota.
By August 1945, both Japan and Germany had been soundly defeated. Evidence of Nazi atrocities against Jews shocked the world. Still, Lindbergh refused to admit he was wrong in his assessment of the Nazis.
It's always amazed me how the Jewish community likes to overly bash Henry Ford, the man who may have played the greatest role in defeating the Germans and Adolf Hitler.
Cherry picking small parts of his life and using it to define him as being life long antisemitic.
This is done intentionally or out of ignorance by original sources.......who make it easy for others to cut and paste articles that mischaracterize his entire life by passing it on.
I've actually known the authentic history about this extremely well for decades.
If a person wants to be fair and objective about the life of an 83 year old man, they look at everything he did and they don't cherry pick a small part of it to define who he was, especially when his actions in the last decade of his life contradicted the narratives attempting to trash him.
I give a person much more credit for recognizing they were wrong, acknowledging it and changing than one who was always right from the get go.
The Willow Run bomber plant made aviation, industrial and social history—along with new B-24s by the hour.
This is an amazing story:
https://www.uso.org/stories/112-detroit-defied-reality-to-help-win-world-war-ii
https://www.ypsireal.com/blog/post/fun-facts-about-the-willow-run-bomber-plant/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism_in_the_United_States
https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/history-archaeology/leo-frank-case/
A Jewish man in Atlanta was placed on trial and convicted of raping and murdering a thirteen-year-old girl who worked for the National Pencil Company, which he managed. Before the lynching of Frank two years later, the case became known throughout the nation. The degree of anti-Semitism involved in Frank’s conviction and subsequent lynching was enough of a factor to have inspired Jews, and others, throughout the country to protest the conviction of an innocent man.
On April 26, 1913, Mary Phagan, the child of tenant farmers who had moved to Atlanta for financial gain, went to the pencil factory to collect her week’s wages. Leo Frank, the superintendent of the factory, paid her. He was the last person to acknowledge having seen Phagan alive. In the middle of the night, the factory watchman found her bruised and bloodied body in the cellar and called the police. The city was aghast when it heard the news. Rumors spread that she had been sexually assaulted before her death. The public demanded quick action and swift justice.
On May 1 Jim Conley, a Black janitor at the pencil factory, was arrested after he was found rinsing what appeared to be bloodstains out of a shirt. However, Conley was not charged and was the state’s main witness against Frank, providing at least four contradictory affidavits explaining how Frank forced him to help dispose of Phagan’s body.
Based mainly on the testimony of the janitor, who had been held in seclusion for six weeks before the trial on orders from Solicitor General Hugh M. Dorsey, the jury convicted the defendant.
Thomas E. Watson, a former Populist and the publisher of the Jeffersonian, had conducted a campaign denouncing Frank that struck a chord, and Georgians responded to it. Watson’s accusations against Jews and Leo Frank, in particular, increased the paper’s sales and elicited enormous numbers of letters praising him and his publication. As Watson continued to fan the flames of public outrage, his readership grew. By the time Slaton reviewed the case, there was tremendous pressure from the public to let the courts’ verdicts stand.
Slaton reviewed more than 10,000 pages of documents, visited the pencil factory where the murder had taken place, and finally decided that Frank was innocent. He commuted the sentence, however, to life imprisonment, assuming that Frank’s innocence would eventually be fully established and he would be set free.
After Slaton’s commutation, Frank was interned at a prison farm in Milledgeville for just under two months.
Frank’s stay at the prison farm was cut short on the night of August 16, 1915, when twenty-five prominent citizens of Marietta, identifying themselves as the Knights of Mary Phagan, caravanned to Milledgeville, took Frank from his cell, and drove him back to Marietta, Phagan’s hometown, where they hanged him from an oak tree. Only months later, many of these same men would take part in the nighttime ceremony at Stone Mountain that established the modern Ku Klux Klan.
Frank’s Jewish identity compounded southern resentment toward him, as latent anti-Semitic sentiments, inflamed by Tom Watson, became more pronounced.
Frank’s trial had far-reaching impacts. It struck fear in Jewish southerners, causing them to monitor their behavior in the region closely for the next fifty years—until the civil rights movement led to more significant changes. But it also inspired the formation of the Anti-Defamation League, one of the nation’s foremost civil rights organizations.
In 1986 the Georgia State Board of Pardons and Paroles pardoned Frank. The pardon was motivated in part by the 1982 testimony of eighty-three-year-old Alonzo Mann, who as an office boy had seen Jim Conley carrying Mary Phagan’s body to the basement on the day of her death. Conley had threatened to kill Mann if he said anything, and the boy’s mother advised him to keep silent.
It's 2024 and Israel has only itself to blame for the massive uptick in antisemitism recently. Entirely because of Israel's horrific genocide/ethnic cleansing in Gaza and absurdly(to 95% of the world) defining it as the right to defend itself.
Antisemitism is dead wrong but you absolutely cannot stop it from increasing when the Jewish State of Israel is causing horrific atrocities to innocent people that the vast majority of the world will use to hate Jews.
That's human nature.
When Hitler was slaughtering innocent Jews in WW2, people intensely hated him and Germany.
That was on a MUCH, MUCH larger scale and much worse.........but the principle is the exact same.
When people and countries slaughter innocent children and women in a state sponsored atrocity...........PEOPLE HATE THEM FOR IT.
So it's ok to hate Hitler and Germany for their atrocities and its justified, based on actions of those entities but the massive increase in hatred for Israel and Jewish people in 2023/24 while Israel imposes horrific, collective punishment to 2 million, mostly innocent people is not from Israel's actions? Instead from evil antisemitism.....that applies to anybody that strongly advocates for people in Gaza, like me?
The only way to stop the massive increase in antisemitism is to stop the cause of it............PERIOD!
There are more people that hate Israel today, then last month, which was more than the month before.
That's been the pattern EVERY SINGLE MONTH since Israel started dropping it's 45,000+ massive bombs on innocent people. Taking most of their food, water, medical aid/hospitals......all of their fuel, electricity, air conditioning, shelters. All education of all children and young adults is ZERO and will remain that way for years.
The world, including me is outraged and the outrage is GROWING and its ticks us off to continually hear/read that this is Israel defending itself.
The 2 million innocent people living in Gaza are human beings. Not dehumamized units or uncivilized savages. They have the same right to live and prosper as everybody else.
Just because they were born in Gaza or practice a different religion doesn't make them pieces of shisst. Where is our compassion for humanity? Just because Fox news or our favorite politician tells us this is justified becauset we are superior, civilized Christians and Jews with 100 times more military power to obliterate these worthless scumbags, doesn't make it true.
How ironic that we pretend to take the moral high ground and practice religions that compel us to respect ALL HUMAN BEINGS and follow God's laws. These are GODS CHILDREN, PEOPLE!!!
Their suffering is impossible for us to imagine...........day and day, week after week, month after month.
And we are worse than looking the other way and denying it, then failing to speak out.
We justify and support it!
Then, we actually attack people that speak out against it and vilify them!
++++++++++++++++++++
ICC arrest warrants for Israeli and Hamas leaders will not bring peace, but it is beyond time to give justice a chance.
To those who say the ICC action will make matters worse on the ground, we should ask: Worse than what? More than 35,000 people have been killed in Gaza in the seven months since October 7. The International Court of Justice has said there is a plausible case to be heard that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinian civilians in Gaza. The United Nations has declared a famine in northern Gaza. Children are being intentionally starved en masse. Every single university in Palestine has been systematically destroyed by Israeli forces, leading to allegations of “scholasticide”. Most hospitals and sources of clean drinking water have been destroyed or damaged. Over one million people face the real threat of slaughter in Rafah.
The list goes on. So, again: How could the ICC possibly make things worse? The last 20 years show how brutal and violent this conflict is without accountability. It is now time to change course. It is wrong to claim that it is accountability, rather than the perpetrators running the show, that might ruin chances at peace between Israel and Palestine.
Does this mean that arrest warrants will deliver peace? Of course not. The ICC is not in the business of peacemaking. It is in the business of pursuing accountability for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. But beware of self-serving claims by the supporters of the Israeli government that the ICC will undermine so-called “peace negotiations” that do little other than promote the status quo of impunity.
PM Mohammad Mustafa, in Brussels to attend a meeting with international donors, said he was grateful that Spain, Ireland and Norway had effectively joined 143 other countries that backed a Palestinian bid to become a full United Nations members in a resolution earlier in May.
“Jewish Americans have flourished in America, enjoying immense freedom and opportunities. But like other minorities, Jewish Americans have also faced prejudice, especially during periods of economic hardship or war. During World War I and the Great Depression, Jews were often targeted as scapegoats.
The Leo Frank incident also led to a resurgence of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK). By the mid-1920s, the KKK claimed to have four million members, more than all the Jews in the United States. In the midst of this turmoil and despite protestations at the time, President Woodrow Wilson nominated Louis D. Brandeis to the Supreme Court in 1916. As the first Jew to serve on the Court, Justice Brandeis had to endure bitter taunts, particularly from fellow justice James C. McReynolds.”
https://www.pbs.org/jewishamericans/jewish_life/anti-semitism.html
May 23, 2024
Reported Antisemitic Incidents Increased By 360% And Anti-Muslim/Anti-Palestinian Discrimination By 180% Since October 7th
In the three months following October 7th, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) recorded an alarming 3,291 antisemitic incidents, a 360% increase compared to the same period one year prior. Similarly, in virtually the same time period, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) received 3,578 complaints of anti-Muslim and anti-Palestinian discrimination and hate, nearly a 180% rise from the same period a year earlier.
++++++++++++
We should note that anti-Muslim, anti-Palestinian discrimination is GREATER than antisemitism.
BOTH ARE REALLY WRONG!
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/hate-groups-in-the-u-s
Islamophobia is WRONG!
Started by metmike - May 26, 2024, 11:04 p.m.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clark_McReynolds
James Clark McReynolds(February 3, 1862 – August 24, 1946) was an American lawyerand judge from Tennessee who served as United States Attorney General under President Woodrow Wilson and as an associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States. He served on the Court from 1914 to his retirement in 1941. McReynolds is best known today for his sustained opposition to the domestic programs of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his personality, which was widely viewed negatively and included documented elements of overt antisemitism and racism.
McReynolds went on tirades about "un-Americans" and "political subversives."[5] Known as a blatant bigot,[14][D][33] he would not accept "Jews, drinkers, blacks, women, smokers, married or engaged individuals" as law clerks.[34] Time "called him 'Puritanical', 'intolerably rude', 'savagely sarcastic', 'incredibly reactionary', and 'anti-Semitic'".[35][36][37] McReynolds refused to speak to Louis Brandeis, the first Jewish member of the Court, for the first three years of Brandeis's tenure. When Brandeis retired in 1939, McReynolds did not sign the customary dedicatory letter sent to justices on their retirement.[36][38] He habitually left the conference room whenever Brandeis spoke.[36]
When Benjamin Cardozo's appointment was being pressed on President Herbert C. Hoover, McReynolds joined Justices Pierce Butler and Willis Van Devanter in urging the White House not to "afflict the Court with another Jew".
During Cardozo's swearing-in ceremony, McReynolds pointedly read a newspaper.[40][42] He often held a brief or record in front of his face when Cardozo delivered an opinion from the bench.[43]Likewise, he refused to sign opinions authored by Brandeis.[3][verification needed][better source needed]
According to John Frush Knox, McReynolds's law clerk for the 1936–37 term (following the seven-year clerkship of Maurice Mahoney), and one author of a memoir of McReynolds's service, McReynolds never spoke to Cardozo at all,[34] and several sources report that he did not attend Cardozo's memorial ceremonies held at the Supreme Court.
In 1922, Taft proposed that members of the Court accompany him to Philadelphia on a ceremonial occasion, but McReynolds refused, writing: "As you know, I am not always to be found when there is a Hebrew abroad.
Mike said,
“It's always amazed me how the Jewish community likes to overly bash Henry Ford, the man who may have played the greatest role in defeating the Germans and Adolf Hitler.
Cherry picking small parts of his life and using it to define him as being life long antisemitic.”
——————————
Hey Mike,
You fortunately weren’t the recipient of this bigotry. The Jewish community was. Put yourself in their shoes. Also, the length of time he was overtly antisemitic isn’t as important imo as the horribly ugly things he said during that period and how much of a longer term influence he may have had via helping the spread of anti-semitism based lies worldwide, including to Hitler, himself:
“He was one of the most successful and celebrated industrialists on the planet. His anti-semitism was rank and it was unchecked. He spewed it freely in private tirades among friends, family, close business cohorts, newspaper reporters, or pretty much anybody within earshot, in the office, in private chats, in interviews at dinners, even on camping trips. A close friend wrote in his diary after witnessing one late night around the campfire diatribe, ‘Ford attributes all evil to Jews.’”
“Ford even ordered his engineers to forego the use of any brass in his Model T automobile. He called brass a ‘Jew metal’. Ford said ‘wherever there’s anything wrong with the country you’ll find the Jews on the job there.’”
“He blamed a vast and inchoate Jewish conspiracy for inciting his workers and his stockholders to demand that he share a sliver more of the expansive Ford Motor Company profits with them. He blamed Jews for the gold standard and the advent of the Federal Reserve Bank. He blamed Jews for ruining motion pictures in America. He blamed Jews for ruining popular music. He blamed Jews for ruining baseball.”
“Ford was hardly the only radical anti-Semite in the U.S. circa 1920. But in addition to his fortune and his famous name and his iconic company, he had a megaphone your average crazy uncle theorizer lacked. He had a newspaper. It was called “The Dearborn Independent”, which he had purchased for a song in 1918. The paper was a big money loser in the beginning.”
continued in next post….
Continued from prior post:
“One of the ‘Dearborn Independent’s’ editorial staffers was a veteran of the New York newspaper wars. He had an idea. He wrote to Ford’s right hand man, ‘Find an evil to attack, let’s find some sensationalism.’”
“And lo, the answer landed unbidden, not long after, a newly translated English edition of a book titled, ‘The Protocols of the Meetings of the Learned Elders of Zion’. The pamphlet was the work of rabidly anti-Semitic Russian Fabulists who were furious at the Bolsheviks toppling of the old tsarist aristocracy.“
“The tsarists portrayed the Russian revolution as not just a local affair, they portrayed it as the early innings of a plot by a cabal of all-powerful Jewish schemers to take over the world. The Protocols was billed as the product of a surreptitious note-taker at a top-secret meeting wherein these Jewish puppet masters had drawn up their strategy. Now, there was no secret meeting, obviously. There was no secret plot. There was no surreptitious note-taker. The whole thing was a work of fiction. A very considered, very deliberate lie, and a very dangerous piece of propaganda.”
“Ford and his newspaper bore down on it with alacrity. They started a new weekly series in ‘The Dearborn Independent’ based on The Protocols. It would end up being a 92-part weekly series. Every week for 92 weeks, headlines like these, ‘The International Jew, The World's Problem’, and ‘Jewish Jazz, Moron Music, becomes our national music’. And this one, ‘The perils of baseball, too much Jew’. These headlines were splashed onto the pages of Ford's paper, which was distributed in Ford dealerships across the country.”
“Ford also saw to the publication of his series in book form. It was titled ‘The International Jew.’ It ran to four volumes. Never mind that ‘The Protocols’ was exposed as make-believe in 1921, right in the middle of Henry Ford's 92-week series. His weekly ‘International Jew’ essays continued without pause. And Ford motor dealers kept tossing the latest issue of ‘The Dearborn Independent’ onto the front seat of newly purchased Model Ts all over the country.”
Continued in next post….
Continued from prior post…
“Ford saw to it that the four volumes of the ‘International Jew’ were translated and published worldwide in 12 international editions, including one in Germany and put a pin on that. Of all the contributions Henry Ford made to this world, one of them was this, the most prolific, most sustained published attack on Jews the world had ever known. The German edition of Ford's book had landed in the hands of one particularly gifted propagandist.”
When Adolf Hitler's book, ‘Mein Kampf’, was published in 1925, the author appeared to lift not just ideas, but whole passages from Ford's own publications. ‘Mein Kampf's’ first edition extolled Ford by name. Hitler wrote, ‘it is Jews who govern the stock exchange forces of the American Union. Every year makes them more and more the controlling masters of the producers in a nation of 120 millions. Only a single great man, Ford, to their fury, still maintains full independence.’”
“By this point, Hitler had already mulled sending German shock troops to major American cities to aid in what he hoped would be Henry Ford's run for president in 1924. When a reporter from ‘The Detroit News’ showed up at Nazi Party headquarters in Munich in December 1931 to interview Hitler, she had a series that was called Five Minutes with Men in Public Eye. She had her five minutes with Hitler. When she went to Hitler's office, she was surprised to find, hanging on the wall behind Hitler's desk, a large framed portrait of a very famous American.”
“Hitler explained to the newspaper woman, I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration. The Detroit reporter asked Hitler that day point blank why he was anti-Semitic. He said, without hesitation, ‘somebody has to be blamed for our troubles.’ I feel like if you go back in time to then, like the worst thing that you could find, if you could time machine yourself, ‘Back to the Future’ style, see your family or people you were interested in at that time, the worst thing that you could imagine is that they'd have a portrait of Hitler at that time. I think Hitler having a portrait of you.”
"You fortunately weren’t the recipient of this bigotry. The Jewish community was"
Thanks very much, Larry.
I know that you are very sincere and didn't intend it this way but when people take this position, FOR ME, I consider it to be arrogant and insulting as well as ignorance and close mindedness to imply that since I'm not Jewish and you are, that you understand what it was like being a Jew 100 years ago and I can't or am not doing so in this discussion because I disagree with you, the expert Jew.
Let me explain to make this clear.
You are familiar with my reporting on what's going on in Gaza. According to your mentality on antisemitism from a century ago, I need to be Palestinian to understand and be able to fully experience the empathy of what it's really like being in their shoes.
Or to be black to understand the rampant racism in the past.
Or to be a woman to understand what it was like for women not being able to vote before the 19th Amendment was ratified on August 18, 1920.
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I cried numerous times when copying and pasting these images in Gaza because I'm a human being and these are fellow human beings having to suffer thru the most horrific circumstances that our minds can imagine........and YES, the minds of some of us are capable of imagining how horrible it must be.
We don't need to be the same nationality/race or religion to fully understand it. Just embracing our common humanity.
Re: Re: Re: The horrific Genocide ramps up
By metmike - Feb. 25, 2024, 7:33 p.m.
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https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/103460/#104138
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190221111704.htm
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If non Jews or non women or non blacks or non XXXX's are not able to see thru the eye's of those people.......then going to a therapist or counselor or psychiatrist is a waste of time unless its a fellow Jew, black, woman or somebody with the same nationality, religion or gender.
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I can show how being a Jew in this conversation is the one creating the bias.
For instance, after I stated this:
“It's always amazed me how the Jewish community likes to overly bash Henry Ford, the man who may have played the greatest role in defeating the Germans and Adolf Hitler.
Cherry picking small parts of his life and using it to define him as being life long antisemitic.”
Your response was to go into a 3 post attack, overly bashing Henry Ford and suggesting that he was in cahoots with Hitler, completely ignoring that Henry Ford played one of the most significant roles in DEFEATING HITLER.
Extrapolating the fact that Hitler greatly admired him into a path of completely ignoring what Henry Ford did to obliterate Hitler and Germany in WW2 and his apology for the strongly antisemitic views he had previously expressed.
Ignoring the fact that hundreds of millions of other people in the world greatly admired Henry Ford, completely independent of the very offensive articles, Jew hating views shared by the authors of the antisemitic newspaper that he owned in the 1920's and later apologized for.
I fully recognize the great damage that Henry Ford caused 100 years ago to the Jewish community during that period, especially when he had a newspaper to express it(in those days, there was no television and radio was in its infancy, so newspapers were 10X+ more powerful than today).
During Henry Ford's ownership, the top subscriptions were at 900,000 in 1925/26 but the paper LOST over $5 million during those 8 years of ownership.
It's hard for most people today to comprehend the power of newspapers in those days.
And a man like Henry Ford was worshiped by many millions (and hated by others).
But magnifying this BEYOND what the authentic facts showed in WW2 is like you suggested, an item that the Jewish community is an expert at doing. That too is something that I can appreciate by putting myself in your shoes.
I completely empathize with the tremendous, widespread damage to the USA Jewish community that Henry Ford's articles caused.
https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/445060/
https://researchworks.oclc.org/archivegrid/data/798146988
The newspaper is remembered chiefly as a vehicle for Henry Ford's anti-Semitic views, aired in two campaigns in 1920-1921 and 1924-1925. The second, and most notorious, campaign criticized Chicago attorney Aaron Sapiro for organizing farmers into what Ford felt were unfair marketing monopolies. Sapiro brought a defamation of character lawsuit against Henry Ford in March 1927 which was settled out of court the following July. Henry Ford published his last issue of The Dearborn Independent in December 1927. Despite its vast circulation, with subscriptions exceeding 900,000 at its peak in 1925 and 1926, The Dearborn Independent was not a commercial success during the Ford era, losing $5 million in 8 years.
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Regardless, this is 2024 and Henry Ford's antisemitic newspaper in the 1920's a century ago is in the stone age of minority discrimination.
Women had just been given the right to vote, blacks would be seen as inferior and deprived of their civil right for numerous more decades after this.
Slavery was still legal in over half the world in 1924.
That doesn't make it right but people were ignorant and very primitive when it came to recognizing the rights of minorities/women.
This included Jewish minorities.
It's good to recognize the past and those horrible mistakes and put them into honest, objective perspective to learn and apply lessons as well as recognizing progress but most importantly......... focus on attacking areas in society where LEGIT Antisemitism, Islamophobia and hate of minorities still exists big time.
Respect the sincerely held views of those directly impacted and being discriminated/harmed but just as much, others in the majority that are informed and empathetic. That understand the dynamics and want to help make it better using objective facts.
Mike said, “suggesting that he was in cahoots with Hitler,”
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Hey Mike,
To clarify, I wasn’t trying to imply he was in cahoots with Hitler. Though not in cahoots and despite Hitler already being an antisemite, Ford’s earlier words (despite it being inadvertent) helped to intensify Hitler’s antisemitic rants to the point where he quoted Ford in his book for millions of people to see! No apology was going to reverse this kind of damage.
I’m defending why I don’t think the Jewish community’s as well as others’ bashing of Ford’s A.S. should be considered overdone like you claimed. In addition to his amazing accomplishments in the auto industry, we agree that his overt A.S. for a small % of his life was very influential in an absolutely horrible way. I feel my defense of your criticism of overdone bashing by the Jewish community is perfectly appropriate in this thread because it is named “A.S. is WRONG!” (which I’m glad you created). This isn’t an “A.S. is WRONG but as long as an antisemite doesn’t overtly spread A.S. for more than a few years and apologizes for doing so he/she shouldn’t be criticized” thread. And this isn’t a “Great Industrialists” thread.
You’ve been rightfully saying that real A.S. needs to be distinguished from fake A.S. Well, this overt A.S. was as real as it gets!
I can’t stop you from not liking that that some folks emphasize this terrible side of Ford that had a big influence on things he said for numerous folks to read. But at least I can still defend them doing so.
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Mike said: “I fully recognize the great damage that Henry Ford caused 100 years ago to the Jewish community during that period…”
Mike,
As a reminder, these horrible things said 100 years ago are being spread by today’s antisemites thanks to the internet. That means the damage continues despite his apologies.
Regarding the phrase “Never forget” in regard to the Holocaust, it isn’t just the Holocaust itself that shouldn’t be forgotten. The ugly things said in advance of it that helped lead to it shouldn’t be forgotten.
Thanks, Larry!
Never forgetting comes with it, opportunities to learn in order to apply them objectively and fairly to TODAY's injustices. And to avoid committing the very atrocities to others under a similar theme that Hitler's ethnic cleansing espoused to.
Here's one thought on the matter which Fox News(and factions that support Netanyahu) should adopt as their theme based on Israel's genocide in Gaza:
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/revenge-a-jewish-concept/
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With regards to the history we are discussing here, this article has the most accurate and comprehensive assessment of the many that I've read.
It provides the clear evidence of Henry Ford's antisemitism with authentic facts about the circumstances. It supports your view, which I agree with.
GHI Research Conference Reports GHI NewsForumFeatures
RETHINKING THE FORD-NAZI CONNECTION
Stefan Link
GHI DOCTORAL FELLOW IN INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS HISTORY / HARVARD UNIVERSITY
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Both Ford and GM's success with capitalism and not politics did in fact play a strong role in Hitlers ability to rapidly build the tools to strengthen his country.
He admired and applied "Fordism" which was the mass production using assembly lines to quickly make war tools.
Ford and GM were the majority of the automobile industry in Germany before the war.
Their factories in Germany were taken over by the Germans in 1939 and used to manufacture tools of war. Hitler adopted Henry Ford's ingenious assembly line manufacturing dynamics to mass produce his war tools on a scale that shocked the world.
Ford would use this AGAINST Hitler(with his son, Edsel when he built the Willow Run plant to manufacture bombers at a rate nobody thought was possible.
Building 8,684 B-24 bombers that went to Germany and obliterated them.
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One of the concepts that I teach with chess is that "the most important move of the game is usually what your opponent did last AND how you respond"
Earlier moves can set the table but the best way to judge a man is not by his mistakes earlier in life but instead what, if anything he learned and what he espoused to AFTER he was afforded learning opportunities.
Did they reinforce already preconceived notions?
Did they change him/her for the better?
Did they recognize their earlier flaws with humility or did they double down?
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Regardless of this, the amount that Henry Ford contributed to the massive increase in antisemitism in 2024 is near zero and the amount caused by what Israel is doing in Gaza is close to 100%.
Spending so much time on antisemitism a century ago is a smoke screen that avoids what the reality is in 2024.
We need to speak out and encourage people speaking out and NOT falsely accuse them of antisemitism. The US propaganda machine is alive and well but propaganda can only bamboozle people for so long in 2024. Even die hart Israel supporters can't keep denying their eyes and ears.
Again, we should all be able to agree with these 3 concerns IN 2024:
1. The innocent human beings being decimated with the current ethnic cleansing
2. Israel's future
3. The future of this entire area
It's absurd to think that there can be any sort of control in antisemitism under these circumstances. Until the war stops.
There are many more people that hate Israel and Jews today than a week ago. This was more than the previous month, which was more than the previous one, going back to last October.
The reason should be crystal clear, even to the Jewish people that are experiencing it. The reason is not Henry Ford. The reason is Netanyahu and Israel.
The reason is Fox News and many others in the media. The reason is the United States politicians, like Lindsey Graham, who enable it and actually support and fund it.
They are all on the blatantly, really really wrong side which is getting more galactically wrong every day!
Mike said:
Regardless of this, the amount that Henry Ford contributed to the massive increase in antisemitism in 2024 is near zero and the amount caused by what Israel is doing in Gaza is close to 100%.
Spending so much time on antisemitism a century ago is a smoke screen that avoids what the reality is in 2024.
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Hey Mike,
1. Regarding your first comment, I agree as I didn't say nor did I imply that the 2024 massive increase in A.S. had anything to do with Ford. What I did say and am not backing away from is that Ford's publications (in addition to other A.S. literature) have been/are unfortunately out on the internet to help new A.S. to keep spreading. It is very painful for me to realize this.
2. Regarding your 2nd comment, I think that posting about TRUE A.S. from any period is appropriate for this A.S. thread. The 1920s to 1930s was an especially bad time as regards to the spread of A.S. in the U.S. and abroad. Never forget!
Nobody should ever be quieted from talking about the ugliness and danger that is true A.S. Talking about that period isn't meant to be specifically connected to the events in 2024 though the ugly hatred of true A.S. has been a major problem for many centuries all of the way to the present. It should always be talked about and thus I'm glad you created this thread. Thank you!
LARRY, I COULD INSERT DIFFERENT WORDS INTO YOUR "Nobody should ever be quieted from talking about the ugliness and danger that is true A.S. Talking about that period isn't meant to be specifically connected to the events in 2024 though the ugly hatred of true A.S. has been a major problem for many centuries all of the way to the present. It should always be talked about and thus I'm glad you created this thread. Thank you!" AND...... IT WOULD MATCH UP WITH MY CONFEDERATE FLAG COMMENT. IMO, OF COURSE.