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Very sadly, this is exactly what i said would happen.
Israel's war in Gaza to supposedly defend itself and to supposedly eliminate Hamas(which will never happen).
Instead, the stone cold truth is that it's massively increased hate for Israel and Jews around the world. This is so wrong and so sad to witness.
It's massively incentivized millions of people to want to damage and even to eliminate Israel...............this incident the result of that mentality.
It's destroyed Israels credibility around the world.
There's a global arrest warrant out for Netanyahu as a war criminal for these REAL crimes against humanity.
While here is the US, we get mostly pathetic propaganda, twisting horrific crimes into justifiable actions...... especially on stations like Fox that cheer his war crimes and in Congress, where he gets standing ovations.
Is this a world full of sick F's leading us or what???
This is a totally messed up moral compass by people unable to tell the difference between right and wrong on a galactically offensive scale!
And it's mainly Israel and the United States doing it.
Where most of the world's Jewish people live.
Where the most powerful entity exists, that controls and brainwashes for profits and power.....the US military-industrial-political-media complex.
As long as Israel continues to take this ruinous path.......there will be ruinous results for Israel, ironically because of the agenda and support from the most pro Israel entities!!!
Just because it's flexing its extremely dominant military might and claiming to be winning the war..........like cowards, obliterating 2 million innocent people, mostly children and women, it will be LOSING THE REAL WAR WITH MOST OF THE REST OF THE WORLD(outside of the US/Israel).
It goes to show you, that just because Israel has some of the world's most brilliant people, doesn't mean they don't do some extremely stupid things for Israel's future.
Hate, revenge/vengeance and gullibility can impact even the brightest minds and cause bad judgment.
Netanya is a world class charismatic, psychopathic charlatan capable of capturing millions of minds in Israel and the United States for his diabolical agenda.
Netanyahu is 100% backed by the US military-industrial-POLITICAL-MEDIA complex which puts out the convincing sounding/reading propaganda to capture million of minds.
Some of the same people that abhor Trump and can't understand how anybody can follow him...........follow Netanyahu in the same way.
Some of the same people follow BOTH of them.............LIKE cult leaders that get a free pass from scrutiny and a free pass from questioning because followers minds WANT TO BELIEVE in all of their messages.
We witnessed the D party and its leaders WANTING TO BELIEVE that Joe Biden was a viable candidate to be president for another 4 years, month after month............and where that led.
Manufactured realities that hide the truth and cause people to believe are almost never in the best interest for the majority of people. ....in the long run.
They can be very effective in the short run at bamboozling enough people to accomplish things that reward diabolical schemers with self serving objectives..........but have longer term consequences and a price to pay.
Previous thread:
Gaza: 8 months is much too long!
35 responses |
Started by metmike - June 15, 2024, 10:08 a.m.
Your ignorance is jaw-dropping. Hezbollah has 150,000 rockets supplied by Iran aimed at Israel (in violation of the cease-fire brokered after the 2006 war).
Their charter to "eliminate the Zionist entity" was NOT adopted on October 7th. It was stated decades ago.
In a just world, Israel would attack Iran, which is responsible for the current escalation. But of course, you blame the victim.
Antisemitism has not increased one iota because of Israel's heavy-handed overreaction to the act of war on October 7th. It has been there under the rocks for millennia.
I ask the 5 or 6 readers of this blog to consider the reaction of the US if Canada and Mexico started launching thousands of missiles at American cities.
Antisemitism has not increased one iota because of Israel's heavy-handed overreaction to the act of war on October 7th.
I know that you are sincere and really want to believe that.
Thanks, joj!
Just a reminder too.
I came from a mindset of the most pro Israel there can be...........considering Jews today as the descendants of God's chosen people for 60 years and NEVER being wrong about anything.
Admiring Jews in our country/the world and with personal friendships in my life. THEIR MANY ACHIEVEMENTS. THEIR EXTREMELY DISCIPLINED WORK ETHIC AND TENACITY. Their brilliance in many fields.
I'm extremely aware of the history too, although my recent RE evaluation of it makes me realize it wasn't all one sided as my indoctrination taught.
Even knowing that, my position, defined in the previous post is based on realities that have CHANGED, exclusively because of the ethnic cleansing in Gaza (that you shrug off as an overreation).
Blatant war crimes =genocide=heavy-handed overreaction?
Not in my objective world that uses authentic facts and again, I CAME FROM the most pro Israel mindset for 60 years until after October 7th,
I am still pro Israel, as I am a patriotic American...........that screams bloody murder when our country does really bad things.
When people do that with Israel, they get accused of antisemitism. Anybody that reads my posts here should be ashamed of themselves for thinking that about me (not you or Larry).
You just accuse me of being ignorant instead of antisemitic to justify believing what you WANT TO BELIEVE.
I'm leaving Detroit now to head back to Evansville and will be back later today.
1 more thing to help you.
If you are so convinced that the war in Gaza hasn’t contributed 1 iota to the tripled antisemitism around the planet, because they were all that way BEFORE the war, then at least consider me.
You know how pro Israel I have ALWAYS been.
How do you explain somebody like me……having these so called “antisemitism views” ?
Blaming it on ignorance doesn’t work because I’ve spent hundreds of hours on this, with a pro Israel mindset in order to free myself of previous ignorance.
Multiply me times hundred of millions of others in the world…….most with less Israel loving to start with but many that did NOT HATE ISRAEL but Israel did something to change that view………like it’s changed mine!
I still want, more than anything for Israel to have the most promising future it can have!
You are not antisemitic. You have told us this many times. I believe you.
Which proves my point. You were not antisemitic before and you are not antisemitic after.
You completely miss d the point.
My 60 year love affair with Israel has suffered major short term damage but because of who I am, I refuse to let that impact my long term benefit of the doubt love of Israel, because the main cause of this is an evil man, who won’t be in power much longer.
the vast, vast majority of people don’t love Israel as much as me and are not as forgiving
I want to apologize for not first condemning this act and expressing empathy for the victims and families.
For perspective, Israel has dropped 85,000 mostly more powerful bombs on victims in Gaza.
The strike follows a bloody weekend rocket attack on the Israel-occupied Golan Heights, blamed by Israel on Hezbollah.
The Lebanese armed group, which is aligned with Iran and has pledged to continue to attack Israel in solidarity with Gaza, has denied responsibility.
Israel’s largest newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, quoted unnamed Israeli officials as saying Israel’s response would be “limited but significant”.
“I don’t think the Israeli prime minister is at this point interested in an all-out war, partly because there are uncontrollable, unpredictable consequences to a larger war in Lebanon, involving Hezbollah. Because eventually if it escalates, it will involve Iran as well,” said Slim.
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Please note too that my objective yesterday and always, keeps the BEST INTEREST of Israel as top priority.
When children in Israel get killed, it's very upsetting to me. I want children in Gaza to stop getting killed AND future killings of children in Israel( like we just witnessed) TO NOT HAPPEN.
And children of Lebanon TO NOT BE KILLED from this retaliatory strike.
Is a retaliatory strike justified?
Yes, however we can ask then, if Israel is being attacked by fellow Muslims because of Gaza, which is inevitable and will continue...........exactly why started it.
Oh, I know! Hamas started it on October 7th.
The flaw in that argument is that Gaza has been collectively punished X 1,000 for that incident and psychopath, Netanyahu is capitalizing on that dynamic for his self serving agenda.........that is greatly hurting Israel's credibility in the world and making it a major target for NEW terrorism and worst of all, massively increasing the magnitude of antisemitism around the planet.
Many Jewish people feel these were all just "closet" antisemitic people.
I disagree because regardless of where you come in on the Jewish hating or Jewish loving scale..........unless you are wrapped in denial, 90% of the world thinks LESS OF ISRAEL, some MUCH LESS than before the war.
And even if most of it is from "closet" antisemitic people(not) IT'S REAL and being caused by THE WAR IN GAZA.
Bernie Sanders has been saying it best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGXxrdYdfPI
This should NOT be a political issue as its been turned into. This should not be an issue of pro Israel vs pro Palestinian as its been turned into.
This SHOULD BE a moral issue about HUMAN BEINGS based on objective, critical thinking applied in a way that provides benefits to EVERYBODY......outside of Netanya and the self serving cruds driving this in the millitary-industrial-POLITICAL-media complex with their propaganda.
Far-right lawmaker Zvi Sukkot appeared to be among those rioting after at least nine soldiers were detained on suspicion of “severe abuse of a detainee.”
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There’s no excuse for a prisoner to be abused even if a member of the elite Hamas force (Nukhba) and despite Hamas being evil.
https://www.newsweek.com/ismail-haniyeh-assassination-bad-news-kamala-harris-dnc-1932428
While I've been NOT Joe Biden, and NOT Kamala Harris, the one area that I agree strongly with her on is her position in Gaza.
How sad is that when the position I like about her is the one that might cause her to NOT be elected!
According to Shaun Hannity at Fox and Lindsey Graham tonight, all these problems are the result of Israel not being allowed to defend itself and the US is not providing MORE assistance.
That would be like saying, during the Great Flood of 1993 that the crops did so poorly because there wasn't enough rain!
By metmike - July 31, 2024, 8:01 p.m.
"How sad is that when the position I like about her is the one that might cause her to NOT be elected!"
On the contrary, her words of support for the Palestinians, along with Dobbs, will get her elected. I recall specifically how Biden's poll numbers dropped in the later part of October after his strident support of Israel. The liberal youth voter is strongly sympathetic to the Palestinians. Most Jews who vote on support of Israel are already voting for Trump. She isn't losing as many Jews as she is gaining from the energized liberal youth vote. I think it's a political winner for Harris.
You might be right, joj!
I think a lot of voters that have not decided are looking for reasons to vote based on NOT the other person and Trump is giving NEW reasons for the previous NOT Joe Biden voters to switch to NOT Donald Trump.
I think that previous Rs or Ds from past presidential elections would have an easy time beating this opposition in 2024.
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In addition: The pro Palestinian element is also liberal and though they've been upset that the US hasn't done more and earlier this year, threatened to abstain from voting to send a message to Biden, it's tough to imagine that group ever voting for Trump.
Ds abstaining in 2016 because of disliked Clinton, gave Trump the election. The complete opposite happened in 2020 from NOT Donald Trump votes.
Here's an analysis of this happening the last 2 election cycles:
Re: Who will Harris pick as VP?
By metmike - July 26, 2024, 10:01 a.m.
The correct political position to maximize R votes is to blindly support Israel, which defines Trump's posturing so, compared to Harris, the pro Palestinian group will be motivated to actively vote and to cast NOT Donald Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF-d2AvpK4Y
Updated to reflect U.S. government restrictions on travel to Northern Israel, and information for U.S. citizens, Lawful Permanent Residents and qualifying immediate family members seeking assistance in Gaza.
Do Not Travel To:
Reconsider Travel To:
Country Summary: Terrorist groups, lone-actor terrorists and other violent extremists continue plotting possible attacks in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. Terrorists and violent extremists may attack with little or no warning, targeting tourist locations, transportation hubs, markets/shopping malls, and local government facilities. Violence can occur in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza without warning.
Some areas have increased risk. Read the country information page for additional information on travel to Israel and the West Bank, and Gaza.
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With Netanyahu continuing his state sponsored genocide of Muslims in Gaza for self serving reasons, there appears to be very little hope to avoid continued escalation.
My heart goes out to the innocent people on both sides, along with their families and those that care about these people. Whether its just one side or both sides.
The victims are almost all innocent HUMAN BEINGS ON BOTH SIDES. The politicians, religious zealots, media and others often see them as disposable units/pawns and twist facts to tell a one sided narrative that supports their agenda.
The Industrial-Military complex exerts their tremendous power with dirty lobby money, jobs and bribing schemes to promote profitable conflicts.
When this results in additional US military involvement, the likelihood of terrorism goes up in the United States, especially with millions of people entering our southern border the last 3 years that we know nothing about.
Re: Re: Why Most News is False
By metmike - Aug. 4, 2024, 8:47 p.m.
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They got this backwards. It's the Gaza war that is completely responsible for this escalation.
https://www.newsweek.com/worst-man-israel-makes-moral-argument-genocide-opinion-1936211
https://www.newsweek.com/more-us-forces-middle-east-here-we-go-again-opinion-1938092
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Egyptian politician Anwar Sadat (1918-1981), president of Egypt, American politician Jimmy Carter, and Israeli politician Menachem Begin (1913-1992), Prime Minister of Israel, signing the Camp David Accords in the East Room of the White House..
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Greatest FORMER President in history/J. Carter
Started by metmike - Feb. 18, 2023, 7:49 p.m.
"The expectation of people worldwide from European countries, especially Germany, is to play an effective role in ending the Zionists' genocide in Gaza, rather than supporting and backing this regime," the Iranian president stated.
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I am NOT a supporter of Iran!
However, the one glaring fact that we should all be able to agree on with them is that Israel MUST stop the state sponsored ethnic cleansing in Gaza!
Netanyahu is using it for self serving interests.
As long as this war continues, he delays/escapes being held accountable for previous corruption in Israel. If he can escalate to a bigger conflict that draws the US in and adds to his support here and at home........even better for him.
If the hostages are released, it damages his justification to continue this war, so his negotiations are disingenuous.
I remain pro Israel AND pro Palestinian but most importantly, pro HUMANITY!
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In the Ukraine war, for instance the West mourns the loss of Ukrainian life but celebrates and cheers for Russians to die.
In the Middle East, if you affiliate strongly with 1 side, the human beings and their families on YOUR side count 100 times more than the human beings and their families on the OTHER side.
I went to Catholic mass on Sunday at my Dad's church in Dearborn, MI.
Before communion, we offer prayers for the most important things in the world, that the lector(or deacon/priest) will announce.
At this mass, we offered up our prayers for "A return of the hostages".
A key person or people were the ones that wrote up the list of 5 or 6 items to pray for at all the masses last weekend but it struck me as being extremely tunnel visioned and cold hearted to only pray for the 100 or so hostages and ignore the 2,000,000 innocent people being obliterated because they are Muslims.
As mentioned many times previously, I was taught in Catholic school for 12 years that Jewish people are the descendants of the Israelite's who were God's chosen people.
This is not intended to bash my religion. Just to point out how people ascertain the value of human beings based on whether those human beings are like you or not or what your religion, country, family and nationality teach you.
Fact is, every person is a real human being with THE SAME VALUE.
The billions of human beings living today all belong to one species: Homo sapiens.
https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics/one-species-living-worldwide
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Again, this is what I've been insisting would happen since late last year based on continual, inevitable reactions/escalation to Netanyahu's horrific genocide.
Huge global increase in antisemitism.
Increase in attacks on Israel from Arab countries, attempting to defend fellow Muslims........potential major escalation about to happen.
Huge increase in outrage from over 90% of the world.
don't you find it odd Iran, although supplying tons of weapons to terrorist all over the ME, has been very quiet since Israel attention getter? Maybe, just maybe Israel got the bastards attention and they got a message to stand down or else.
Thanks, mcfarm!
With regards to getting messages.
Let's compare the world and Middle East here on August 14, 2024 to August 14, 2023, a year ago and the relationships with Israel/Jews.
See any difference?
How many of those relationship differences are BETTER for Israel in the last year?
How many of those relationships are WORSE?
How many of those relationships are MUCH, MUCH WORSE?
What is happening right now in the Middle East causing all those differences/changes?
Here's a clue about the cause.
It starts with the letter G.
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Take away the cause and the MUCH, MUCH WORSE relationships start to get BETTER!
Blame it on other things and continue on the same path............and they get MUCH, MUCH, MUCH WORSE than it was before The war in Gaza.
It's not rocket science but instead is some basic critical thinking/common sense but must be applied in the absence of political propaganda, indoctrination, religion and hatred.
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I'm assuming that you want things to get BETTER for Israel/Jewish people. Me too.
Netanyahu and Hamas both want the war to continue.
As long as it continues.........Netanyahu stays in power and avoids accountability.
For Hamas, as long as it continues, the vast majority of the world is increasingly outraged AT ISRAEL!! Muslim countries are uniting in the effort TO STOP THE SENSELESL KILLING OF FELLOW MUSLIMS. Israel HAS BEEN...........IT'S OWN WORST ENEMY THE PAST 10 MONTHS.
It would be hard to write a script to make things worse for Israel's credibility, reputation and LOSS OF global support than what Israel has actually done.
One that would make things WORSE for Jews around the world.
Israel, with its stratospheric military advantage is easily winning the war in Gaza. A bunch of state sponsored, corrupt cowards, abusing their military might by obliterating 2 million innocent people, mostly defenseless children and women and destroying everything in their country they had to live for.
And farcically calling it "defending Israel"
I guess they need to kill thousands of babies because in 20 years, they will grow up to hate Israel and want to annihilate them (-:
Actually, with all the ones NOT dead in Gaza and in the Arab World and in many places outside the Middle East, Israel's actions have incentivized millions to want to wipe out Israel and even hate Jews that have nothing to do with this(which is very wrong). At least 10 times the number of Hamas that Israel takes out........possibly 100 times that number.
There are 100 Muslims in the world to every Jew. ~2 billion Muslims vs ~20 million Jews.
90%+ of the counties and people in the world are NOT supportive of Israel, in fact, the vast majority are emphatically AGAINST AND OUTRAGED AT ISRAEL RIGHT NOW!
Israel and its supporters(mostly in the US) keep arrogantly assuming that the only war is the one being fought with weapons and Israel and the US can AND SHOULD militarily crush any Arab countries and people that react to the genocide in Gaza.
I have news for the US and Israel.
Hamas is kicking Israel's arse up and down and every which way, not despite the 85,000 one thousand+ pound bombs Israel has dropped(many manufactured in the US) BUT BECAUSE OF IT.
People outside of the Israel-centric USA have eyes, ears and brains.
They cannot UNSEE what Israel has done.
This has been the most catastrophic public relations disaster in history for Israel.
A permanent black eye that amazingly...........IS STILL GETTING WORSE AND POTENTIALLY IS ABOUT TO GO INTO A REALM THAT FEATURES A WIDESPREAD WORLD WAR.
And guess who wins?
The ones with the strongest military?
The answer is that both sides lose a tremendous amount. Lives, resources, credibility. Hatred ramping up on both sides is a tremendous negative contribution to making the world a much worse place and to global insecurity……especially in our country.
Israel/USA can win most of the battles fought with weapons (at a great cost to them too).
However, outside of that, Hamas and Israel's enemies win.
Those who insist that Israel had/has no choice are ignoring all the choices they SHOULD HAVE TAKEN. Refused to have a cease fire, with the vast majority (even Biden/Harris) of the world pleading with them to stop the genocide…..over and over and over.
To no avail.
Places like Fox in the evening continue to only tell us about October 7th And that Israel is just defending itself and the best defense is a good offense. We must control uncivilized savages with the only thing they understand"……obliterate them with overwhelming military power.
its True, we have the overwhelming military might to do that. But that is the exact recipe to maximize hate for us. This policy maximizes recruitment for the other side, of many thousands of extreme terrorists and terrorists cells. Many are very clever and some will be very successful with most of them devoted to holding us accountable for what’s happening in Gaza and what we do in an upcoming war.WE WILL LOSE THAT WAR…….aka 9-11-01!
We fight with thousands of 2,000 pound bombs dropped by technologically advanced jets that obliterate our enemies.
They FIGHT BACK with sneaky terrorist attacks, then we try to fight a new war, trying to eliminate the terrorist groups that WE CREATED AND INCENTIVISED.
And with limited success, while suffering losses that we fail to properly atttibute to our long term complete failures in foreign policies in the Middle East.
Jimmy Carter was the last president that truly understood humanity in the Middle East and fairness in applying it To both sides.
I understand the pain that October 7th caused And it required some sort of response. It also required an understanding of what incentivized it.
providing 100 times more incentivation to hate and hurt Israel is not the smart path forward for Israel. The last 10 months have proven that indisputaby.
Netanyahu has been using it as a license for revenge and to save himself from accountability which will happen after the war ends For him.
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken to travel to the Middle East on Saturday to continue diplomatic push for Gaza ceasefire deal.
How many times has Biden told us this????
Instead of the boy that cried wolf, we have "the president that warned Israel and cried peace!"
++++++++++++++++
Biden warns Netanyahu against escalation as risk of regional war grows
Aug 2, 2024 - Politics & Policy
https://www.axios.com/2024/08/02/biden-netanyahu-call-israel-iran-hezbollah
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Activists condemn president’s remark as Israel continues to attack Gaza and death toll crests 38,000
Wed 17 Jul 2024 12.54 EDT
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/17/biden-israel-gaza-palestine
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By Kevin Liptak, Nikki Carvajal and Samantha Waldenberg, CNN
Updated 10:01 PM EDT, Fri May 31, 2024
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/31/politics/biden-middle-east-remarks/index.html
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Analysis by Stephen Collinson, CNN
Updated 2:46 PM EDT, Thu May 9, 2024
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Washington remains the biggest weapons supplier to Israel, which has killed more than 33,000 men, women and children in Gaza.
4 months ago
++++++++++++++++++
By Adam Cancryn
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/12/biden-israel-rafah-attack-00141035
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
By AAMER MADHANI and COLLEEN LONG
Updated 8:43 PM CDT, October 18, 2023
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-israel-hamas-gaza-palestinians-a85cb682fdc61b80285cf4ab354354ce
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The United States will resume shipments of 500lb bombs to Israel, a US official has told the BBC.
A joint shipment of 2,000lb and 500lb bombs had been paused since May because of White House concerns over the use of the munitions in the crowded city of Rafah and other parts of Gaza.
The US has now clarified that the 500lb bombs had only been held up because they were “co-mingled" in the same shipment as the 2000lb bombs. The lower-impact 500lb bombs will now be "moving forward as part of the usual process".
The planned resumption of bomb shipments comes as Israel presses ahead with military operations throughout the Gaza Strip.
Israeli hostages found dead
Started by mcfarm - Aug. 20, 2024, 8:34 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2DYxk5x4WI
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While back in the REAL WORLD, the horrific ethnic cleansing continues (thanks to Israel's and the United State's GENOCIDAL policies).
As Israel continues to defend itself against babies and women!
Part of the collective punishment that 2,000,000 innocent people deserve for the crime of being Muslims born in Gaza!
This video may contain light patterns or images that could trigger seizures or cause discomfort for people with visual sensitivities.
By Stephen Quillen, Nils Adler and Umut Uras
Published On 24 Aug 202424 Aug 2024
Talks about Israel/Gaza: "trained liars"
Scott Ritter : Will Russia Attack NATO?
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https://www.dailysabah.com/opinion/columns/a-standing-ovation-to-genocide
The prime minister of a state accused of committing genocide in Gaza was applauded 79 times, 58 of which were standing ovations, by the U.S. Congress.
The applause for a leader who has officially killed over 39,000 people since Oct. 7 has gone down in history as a significant stain on humanity for those applauding.
Just as those who applauded Adolf Hitler in the past are seen as accomplices to genocide, those who applauded Benjamin Netanyahu, whose genocidal crimes have been acknowledged by the International Court of Justice (ICJ), will be regarded as accomplices to this genocide. From now on, photos of those who applauded Hitler will be placed alongside those who applauded Netanyahu.
Turning a blind eye to all moral, conscientious and humane values to line up and shake hands with Netanyahu while the systematic killing and starvation of the Palestinian people continue is not an act that history will forget.
Definition of a U.S. politician: A morally bankrupt person in a profession that features dishonest representatives driven by political agendas and self enrichment.
Most being bought and paid for by rich coalitions that bribe them to control the policies and political agendas in the United States.
Many of these corrupt politicians promote wars that make the powerful U.S. military industrial complex RICH because the politicians are being enriched for doing so.
A series of cross-border attacks between Israel and Hezbollah over the weekend sparked fears of a wider regional conflict, but an "all-out war" appears to have been averted, for now.
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Multiply this story by 40,000+ to represent how OTHER families feel because of the deaths of their loved ones.
Multiply it by 2 million times to represent the number of innocents being subjected to the most inhumane conditions that none of us can imagine(when I try to do that, it causes me to weep).
The horrific Genocide ramps up
35 responses |
Started by metmike - Feb. 20, 2024, 7:22 p.m. https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/102430/#102489
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This is what our Congress did a standing ovation for 57 times last month!
Those images that capture the reality of everyday life in Gaza for many of the 2+ million people, are a minuscule sample of it. They should burn in our minds with overwhelming empathy for those being this violated.......regardless of race, religion or political affiliation. They are HUMAN BEINGS, MAN!
Only people with the coldest hearts, lacking compassion and ethical standards .....letting diabolical political ambitions trump over that.......could do hours of standing ovations for it.
https://www.newsweek.com/why-netanyahu-panicked-prospect-harris-presidency-opinion-1945186
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https://www.newsweek.com/do-pro-palestinian-protesters-know-what-theyre-fighting-opinion-1944610
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Answer: Yes, the VAST majority of them know exactly what they are protesting! This lady, obviously has no clue because NOT ONCE does she mention it or the atrocities being committed in Gaza!!! She mentions Oct. 7 on 7 separate occasions and Gaza exactly 0 times.
Israel is carrying out large-scale military raids in parts of the occupied West Bank, where the decadeslong conflict with the Palestinians had worsened even before the outbreak of the war in Gaza
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Netanyahu, however, is surging in the polls, living up to his reputation as a political survivor, capable of coming back even when his political epitaph is being drafted. On August 9 — for the first time in more than a year — a poll by the daily Maariv placed his party, Likud, as the leading political force and Netanyahu as the favorite to lead the country.
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I emphatically condemned the US Congress in my country for the offensive standing ovations they gave to this diabolical psychopath and that does NOT mean I'm anti American.
I strongly condemn the people of Israel EVEN MORE for enabling and supporting Netanyahu and that does NOT mean I'm antisemitic.
"His death brings the total number of Israeli soldiers killed since October 7 to 704, according to the military’s tally."
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Netanyahu is also getting his own brave soldiers killed too in this extremely counterproductive(for both sides) genocide. They are killing innocent people in Gaza but..............that's their job without being given much choice.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn02z5kjn40o
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This is a complete joke. What Gaza children need is vaccinations AGAINST 500 LB AND 2,000 LB BOMBS!!! That's what would save the most lives!!!
This is Netanyahu's deranged thinking that he's proving that he is doing everything that he can to provide humanitarian assistance to the poor people of Gaza.
Let's take a poll for the 2,000,000+ people living in Gaza to see what they prefer. The choices are.
1. Get your child vaccinated against polio!
2. Get your child food, water, sanitation, shelter, electricity, schooling, medical care and protection from being killed by huge bombs that have killed tens of thousands of children the past 10+ months.
Results:
2,000,000 residents of Gaza voted for #2 and ZERO voted for #1.
BUT THE ALL POWERFUL NETANYAHU IS GIVING THEM #1 ANYWAYS!
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Maybe we should start a new statistic to give Netanyahu credit for this great humanitarian effort to vaccinate:
1. Children that Netanyahu killed who were not vaccinated
2. Children that Netanyahu killed who were vaccinated against polio before he killed them.
I'm trying to understand why you keep on with the falsehood of the accusation of Genocide in Gaza.
Of the 40,000 people killed so far approximately 17,000 are Hamas militants. So 23,000 civilians have been killed.
So that means out of 2 million people in Gaza 98.85% of the civilians in this genocide are still alive.
If Israel is committing genocide, they are doing a horrible job of succeeding.
And speaking of falsehoods, the Arabic Aljazeera network (not the English Aljazeera network) is now reporting that the Hamas attack on October 7th never happened.
"I'm trying to understand why you keep on with the falsehood of the accusation of Genocide in Gaza."
Thanks very much for the comment and opportunity to respond, joj!
Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:
There are a number of other serious, violent crimes that do not fall under the specific definition of genocide. They include crimes against humanity, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and mass killing.
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metmike: As you can see, using the United States HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM's definition..........and most other authoritative bodies, what Israel is doing checks 4 out of 5 boxes on the Genocide list. #5 would not be applicable with this particular Genocide.
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https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/
Actions do not need to lead to deaths to be considered to be acts of genocide – causing serious bodily or mental harm or the deprivation of resources such as clean water, food, shelter or medical services can be regarded as inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction.
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metmike: This organization uses the same definitions...........which are universally accepted.
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joj,
Your contention that the kill rate isn't high enough to be a Genocide ignores everything else.
Almost total destruction of homes, schools, medical facilities/hospitals......etc. Deprivation of water, food, medical treatment/supplies (other than Polio vaccinations), sanitation, electricity. The number of innocent people living in Gaza being obliterated is 2,000,000+. How many are being impacted? Almost 100%!
Think about your defense. THIS is what you claim shows it's NOT Genocide:
Israel-Gaza war in maps and charts: Live tracker
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker
"Killing members of a group" - By that definition everything is genocide. I look forward to you calling Putin's invasion of Ukraine a genocide. But I won't hold my breath.
Thanks, joj!
I figured that you would find a reason to reject that explanation.
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I also know that when people disagree on something, regardless of the topic, both sides almost always only look for reasons to defend their side and ignore things that contradict it.
It's especially impossible when one of them is only using sources that tell them what they want to read/hear.
Regardless, of THIS particular issue, joj.
I've been convinced from years of communicating with you that you are extremely intelligent and often open minded/objective and provide insights here that nobody else has. You care about human beings and humanity.
And we've been on the same page about many things, just not this one.
And now, a positive message to keep in mind at times like this:
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https://research.com/education/why-facts-dont-change-our-mind
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I admit to often doing searches, using sources that confirm what I think that I know but I also apply the scientific method and try to go to almost as many sites that contradict it to understand what is flawed about the opposing position OR if really lucky, learn something new that I was missing AND TO HUMBLY ADJUST MY POSITION.
With that in mind, I fully acknowledge that I don't spend nearly as much time discussing the horrific events of Oct. 7, 2023 compared to what's been happening in Gaza every day since then. The reason for it is that EVERYBODY ELSE is already doing that X10, not because I don't have tremendous empathy and don't understand the rage its causing.
One of my objectives here is to SPEAK OUT about things that are wrong that are currently in progress and can be changed.
I started this thread below, immediately after Oct. 7, 2023, in response to those horrific attacks and as mentioned dozens of times here, part of my reasoning to speak out is that it will HELP ISRAEL AND REDUCE THE ESCALATING ANTISEMITISM THAT HAS RESULTED.
So, joj we want the same thing.
I also fully acknowledge that since I'm NOT Jewish, my thinking isn't impacted by the same profound pain as that felt by the Jewish community to the horrible attacks on Oct 7th.
Hate(and love)
13 responses |
Started by metmike - Oct. 17, 2023, 4:15 p.m.
The bodies of six hostages, including Israeli American Hersh Goldberg-Polin, were recovered from a tunnel in Rafah overnight.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-gaza-hostages-live-updates-rcna169133
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Condolences to that side for their loss of 6 precious lives.........human beings with families that did nothing wrong and didn't deserve this but will suffer their losses forever.
Netanyahu must go!
Government/Media propaganda defines what we THINK that we know on this and on Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1vqnkaaOD8
"We're not going to get the truth about anything!"
"There's no reward for the truth in wartime!"
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By metmike - Feb. 27, 2023, 10:04 p.m.
The Basic Principles of War Propaganda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Basic_Principles_of_War_Propaganda
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metmike: Israels fake cease fire continues. Israel is also getting its brave soldiers killed too!!
The total insanity of Netanyahu's genocide for self serving purposes continues.
The absurdity of a campaign to vaccinate for Polio because of the rampant disease spreading from these Natanyahu, intentionally caused disease spreading conditions..........lack of sanitation, food, water and medical supplies/facilities.
Good God, man. Tens of thousands of children are dying and many more seriously injured FROM BOMBS, NOT Polio.
And the Polio is being caused too by the conditions of the Genocide on the ground. Stop the CAUSE!
Now, they're expanding into the West Bank.
And it took 6 hostages dying for Israel to finally wake up?
Jewish people are some of the smartest in the world but this is profound evidence that smart people can be bamboozled to support corrupt regime's and diabolical agenda's led by a psychopath .........that are destroying those very smart people!
U.S. and Israel's Government and media lies manipulating people with convincing propaganda of WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR has trumped truth and what those people NEED TO KNOW. but the truth can't be covered up forever.
And the powerful jet fuel that they are using to propel support for this horrific crime against humanity?
HATRED AND REVENGE!
Hate(and love)
13 responses |
Started by metmike - Oct. 17, 2023, 4:15 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99752/
Using hate to justify actions almost always backfires onto the haters. The tripling of very offensive/wrong antisemitism, directed at people that are NOT directly responsible is part of the backfiring evidence in the real world.
The ONLY way to stop it is to get rid of the main source.............NETANYAHU!
How is it possible that this man is still there??????
Oh yeah. That's right. This is the same guy that got 57 standing ovations from our Congress. That speaks for who the gatekeepers are of the messaging and actions that are designed to accomplish their diabolical, self serving agenda's. In cahoots with our ratings driven, fake journalists/political activists and the extremely powerful, special interest group coalitions and lobbyists that buy and pay our politicians to do their dirty work so their self enriching schemes can be imposed as policy.
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The one and only reason why the tragic death of this beautiful human being matters so much to the media and politicians is because she's from the United States (or Israel).
If she was a Palestinian, she would just be seen as another piece of shist, like all the other millions of innocent humans beings subjected to this GENOCIDE by the morally bankrupt, psychopath from Israel.......along with those supporting and enabling him.
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I will add again that even those that support Netanyahu and people of the same nationality have the right to opinions(including bad/wrong opinions) and to be proud of their nationality/race and its totally wrong to target them based on their ethnicity..........antisemitism.
Even IF they hate Palestinians(which is not always the case) , which is a bad thing, hating them and targeting them for being Jewish and hating Palestinians, if that's the case is doing the exact same thing you accuse them of.
Sadly, this is the main source of the antisemitism ramping up in the last 11 months. The only way to stop the increase is to stop the genocide.
Antisemitism has always existed and always will exist but the world doesn't need this making it so MUCH WORSE!
Stop the Hamas Genocide of the Jews. Just like Hitler pronounced his aim, so too does Hamas.
Hey joj,
1. Could it be that there’s been genocide by both Hamas and Bibi?
2. Are you a fan of Bibi’s? I’ve never liked him due to his overaggressiveness in going after Hamas. As you know he’s been pressured by his far right coalition to be extremely aggressive in going after Hamas, which has resulted in tens of thousands of innocent Palestinian children, women, and elderly men being killed or hurt. It has also lead to intentional starvation of as many as 2 million. Furthermore, most infrastructure has been destroyed. You warmed us that an overreaction for Oct 7 was likely to occur and you were more than right, unfortunately.
Bibi reminds me of Trump due thur far right base/coalition. He’s pressured to go along with them to be able to stay in power to avoid/delay facing charges that could put him in jail. Again this sounds like Trump.
All of this has been very harmful to Israel’s PR, easily the worst during my lifetime. If anything, this has lead to big increases in the spreading of hatred against Jews by anti-Semites.
WxFollower,
I've never liked Bibi. And I oppose him now as well as before 10/7. But I'm not entirely sure that his heavy-handed response to Hamas's act of war is motivated by his desire to stay in power and/or out of jail. He has been a failed leader in many respects, foremost of which, is failing to protect Israeli citizens.
As for genocide: The term was coined by Raphael Lemkin, a Polish Jew who fled to the US after the Nazis invaded Polland. His intent, I believe, was to describe what the Nazis were doing to European Jews (eliminating them). The dictionary definition is "Genocide is the intentional destruction of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group, in whole or in part." Well, "in part" could mean one person, which would be a gross distortion of Lemkin's intent. For me as a Jew, genocide implies the intent to wipe out an entire people. That was Hitler's aim and he stated so countless times. That is Hamas's intent and they have stated so many times. That is NOT Israel's intent and has never been explicitly expressed. My coopting of the term genocide to describe the Russian atrocities on the Ukrainians or the 2,000 Israelis killed by Hamas is tongue-in-cheek. Those are not acts of genocide. Nor is the horrific loss of innocent lives of Palestinians in Gaza.
You said: "All of this has been very harmful to Israel’s PR, easily the worst during my lifetime. If anything, this has lead to big increases in the spreading of hatred against Jews by anti-Semites." Bad PR? Certainly. Cause of anti-semitism? Certainly NOT. Anti-semitism has been there since the Jewish people refused to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Just as racism is a white man's problem, so too is anti-semitism a gentile's problem.
With the exception of the 1956 war, every war between Arabs and Israelis has been started by the Arabs.
In general, If the Arabs would lay down their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their weapons there would be no Israel. Israel will not go down like lambs to slaughter as the Jews did in WWII.
"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our sons. We cannot forgive them for making killers out of our sons."
- Golda Meir
Thanks very much for taking the time to express your views, joj!
I totally understand your thinking. It was mine too, almost to a T in fact before the horrific, October 7, 2023 attack on Israel by Hamas.
Now, as you stated in another post, our differences of opinion on this topic are "as wide as the Grand Canyon".
On many political topics, that means a near 0 chance of ever converging towards agreement. With this one, it's the quintessential dilemma that's permanently imposed on the psyche's of the 2 fatally conflicted sides which interpret every event with their divergent views so that they get FARTHER and FARTHER apart.
One can stand back and try to view this complicated situation objectively(which I have attempted to do, after Oct. 7. Doing hundreds of hours studying/investigation without my blind indoctrination on this topic from my Catholic religion) to see the position of both sides and look very hard for reasons to be optimistic.
There seems to be none based on a realistic evaluation, …OTHER THAN AN IMMEDIATE END TO THE WAR IN GAZA…considering the deeply entrenched, generational indoctrination of hatred and 1 sided interpretations of almost every incident.
One side has the all powerful military might and technology that it can use with impunity because the other side can't respond with a conventional defense to it. The other side uses unconventional forms.
I deeply respect all your views here, joj and will let you express them freely. My views have already been stated dozens of times here and readers can go back to see those earlier in this thread or all the other ones on this topic.
You are Jewish and have family that lives in Israel, so the stakes are MUCH higher in your case than a white Catholic Gentile moderator on a forum.
Your views, ironically are a MUCH closer match to others like me, with the same religious affiliation and country as mine. THEY line up strongly in support for what Israel is doing now, as do our politicians (50+ standing ovations for Netanyahu by our Congress last month).
When was the last time people from both parties gave that many standing ovations for something???
So metmike is in the fairly small MINORITY with his opinion on this in his country.
However, outside of the United States and Israel( and several other countries), which is the vast majority of people on this planet..... we mostly find the complete opposite views Of those in our country..............using the exact same information. Same history, same places, same events, same people, same religions, same everything but with a 180 degree, diametrically opposed interpretation of it by the 2 sides.
And with not enough incentive for most on either side to come together or even want to understand why the other side feels the way that they do.
In fact, one side continually dehumanizes the value of the human beings on the other side, where the loss of tens of thousands of their enemies lives and tremendous suffering for millions of their enemies lives, (ironically intentionally caused) doesn't come close, collectively to the value that they assign to a small fraction of the lives of human beings on THEIR side. That 1 fact by itself speaks clearly about the relationship from 1 side.
Regardless of these indisputable facts, I am different than many people from BOTH sidesfor the following reasons.
1. Despite my current strong views and position. I understand why the other side thinks this way. A year ago, that was me. That was me for 60 years, for Pete's sake. Who am I to pass judgment on millions of people that think like I did for 60 years? It's actually a very reasonable position, considering the information they have grown up with that has taught them what they think they know. I can speak out about what I personally consider a profound enlightenment, obtained by applying the scientific method that seeks to fact check one's own biased belief system in science. However, no matter how strongly I express disagreement today, I must recognize that my disagreement is also with my former self not that long ago,
2. I have a tremendous desire to objectively see the facts which bring outcomes that work best for both sides and benefit both sides simultaneously. This means ending the unimaginable suffering in Gaza. This means stopping the escalation of antisemitism around the world because of it.
Future Peace and a permanent solution is remotely possible with very small odds but its very reasonable to expect clear thinking people to recognize the profound benefits to everybody from ending the war in Gaza!
Justifying it, even with the absurd “Israel is defending itself” narrative requires a complete denial of the real world, enormous damage to Israel in many realms with almost no benefits.
Just like what’s happening in Ukraine, where the so called “supporting Ukraine” position is maximizing the damage to Ukraine and the people in Ukraine……supporting Israel, is also maximizing the overall damage to Israel and Jewish people around the world. supporters of Israel are completely oblivious to making things much worse for Israel.
This view is more likely to result in being accused of antisemitism more than being seen as pro Israel In the current tunnel vision political climate
I had said: "All of this has been very harmful to Israel’s PR, easily the worst during my lifetime. If anything, this has lead to big increases in the spreading of hatred against Jews by anti-Semites."
Joj responded: “Bad PR? Certainly. Cause of anti-semitism? Certainly NOT. Anti-semitism has been there since the Jewish people refused to accept Jesus as the Messiah.”
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Hey joj, Thanks for your reply.
I wanted to clarify what I meant by “big increases in the spreading of hatred of Jews by anti-Semites”.
I didn’t mean it actually caused anti-Semitism. I meant that these were pre-existing anti-Semites who felt more comfortable to become more vocal about their hatred by using Israel’s current aggressive war policy as an excuse to spread it.
https://san.com/cc/israeli-attacks-kill-dozens-of-palestinians-as-hope-for-cease-fire-dims/
Israeli attacks on Wednesday, Sept. 11, killed more than two dozen Palestinians as hope for cease-fire appears to be dimming. An Israeli strike reportedly killed five Palestinians in the occupied West Bank while a separate strike in the Gaza Strip killed at least 20 people, including 16 women and children. Israel said the strikes were launched to take out members of Hamas.
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