https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-grocery-price-gouging-price-controls-inflation-1940494
Vice President Kamala Harris is making a bold — and controversial — move to tackle rising grocery prices, unveiling a federal proposal that would ban "price gouging" in an effort to protect American consumers from what she describes as "corporate greed."
This proposal, part of a broader economic platform being unveiled on Friday, is an attempt by the Harris campaign to address the one issues voters say remains at the top of their list of concerns: the cost of living.
But the embrace of price controls as a way of addressing inflation — which has now come down to under 3%, near the Fed's target — comes with risks, even as food prices remain 21% higher than they were three years ago.
The campaign claims that many large grocery chains have kept prices high despite stable production costs, leading to their highest profits in 20 years. That fails to take into account that grocery stores tend to have razor-thin profit margins, typically between 1-3%, far lower than other retail sectors.
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WOW! This is scary.
Pure political ploy from a team that doesn't understand basic demand/supply/price economics.
From the same team that gave us the fake inflation reduction act(which was the same thing as the Climate Bill but they changed nothing except the name to trick people into thinking it would fight inflation...........and it contributed to WORSE inflation.
So they just make up convincing sounding stuff, give it catchy sounding names and call it solutions...........WHICH MAKE THE THINGS THEY ARE SUPPOSEDLY FIXING EVEN WORSE!!!!
Everybody that trades or understands economics has heard of this:
The cure for high prices is high prices. Because IT ADDRESSES THE ROOT CAUSE by incentivizing producers/supply in a capitalistic, free market economy.
The cure for low prices is low prices for the opposite reason.
The objective should be:
1. To increase supply
2. To lower the cost of energy because transportation of goods is a HUGE cost that is dialed into the price we pay.
The Harris (anti) energy policy is a complete train wreck and makes inflation WORSE!
I had sort of decided to not vote this year after listening to Trump recently but this puts my NOT Kamala Harris(under any circumstances) vote back in play.
Every economist will tell you that an authentic discussion about inflation should include the government spending, excessive printing of money and unsustainable debt.
Which was NOT and will NOT be addressed by Harris because this is pure political nonsense, not a smart economic plan.
In fact, price controls usually BACKfire because it reduces the incentive needed for producers/supplies to increase which is the free markets way to pressure prices naturally and sustainably.
Government intervention that sabotages the free markets is just a form of socialism.
Wow!
How does a yahoo atmospheric scientist living in rural Indiana understand this extremely basic, rock solid principle and the people that we pay to run our country don't?
Even more galactically absurd..... they are actually trying to use this to bamboozle Americans to get elected and making it a key part of their economic plan!
I think that the knowledge of people that come to a trading forum, about how and why markets trade, which determines prices is probably greater than the general public.
Assuming that to be the case, is there anybody reading this that thinks this is a good idea?
Other than the political stunt element.
A market-distorting tactic brings both short- and long-term harm.
Thursday, January 20, 2022
https://www.hoover.org/research/price-controls-still-bad-idea
We opponents of price controls have been quite willing to discuss why they’re a bad idea. If he were to be more accurate, Galbraith would have to say that the idea has been rejected. Indeed, the heartening point of the Times article is that the vast majority of economists, including left-wing economists such as Paul Krugman, reject the idea of comprehensive government controls on prices. But sometimes it’s hard for people who are losing a debate to admit that they’ve lost, not because the topic has been suppressed but because their idea has been analytically crushed. It’s worthwhile, therefore, to say why they are such a bad idea. Price controls cause shortages, waste people’s time in line, sometimes lead to favoritism by suppliers, and, as in the case of oil and gasoline in the 1970s, can lead to harmful regulation that lasts for decades.
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https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/the-dangers-of-price-controls-may-1972/
The first thing to be said about wage and price fixing is that it is harmful at any time and under any conditions. It is a giant step toward a dictated, regimented, and authoritarian economy. It makes impossible arrangements that both sides are willing to agree to. It sets aside contracts that have already been made in good faith. If an employer wishes to give a man a raise in pay, and the man deserves it, he is nonetheless forbidden to do it under the new regulations. This is a grave abridgment of individual liberty.
Price fixing and wage fixing do harm even if there is no inflation. In a free economy prices are constantly changing. They are changing to reflect changes in supply and demand, in costs, and in a hundred other conditions. Some prices are going up, other prices are going down. If an effort is made to freeze these prices and wages and costs exactly where they are, it immediately disturbs the relationship of prices and comparative profit margins which decides what things will be made and what quantities they will be made in. It upsets the process by which the free market decides how thousands of different commodities and services are to be made in the proportions in which people want them.
Of course, if we are in a period of inflation, price fixing does immensely more harm. And it is never a cure for inflation. What causes inflation is an increase in the supply of money and credit. This is always brought on, directly or indirectly, by governmental policy—especially by governmental deficits which lead to an increase in the supply of money and credit.
Well I think it is just grand that this crazed women is now going to fix every problem her and Joe created the last few years. Be ware there are very few that think she can fix anything
As for the price fixing its another failed idea from the start. Who says 1 dollar, 2 dollars or 3 is gouging? Why not 50 cents. Big gov F'ks up everything it touches and needs to desperately stay away from price fixing. My barber is now up to 25 bucks for 5 minutes in the chair and I can figure out I need to go somewhere else without big gov looking over my shoulder
Price controls did not work in the Nixon presidency and will not work now. Those that don't learn from history are bound to repeat it. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Thanks, cutworm!
Yes, I'm old enough to remember what Nixon did and remember vividly that it did not work.
https://www.cato.org/commentary/remembering-nixons-wage-price-controls#
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price-controls.asp
Understanding Price Controls
Key Takeaways
* Price controls are government-mandated minimum or maximum prices set for specific goods and services.
* Price controls are put in place to manage the affordability of goods and services on the market.
*Minimums are called price floors while maximums are called price ceilings.
*These controls are only effective on an extremely short-term basis.1
*Over the long term, price controls can lead to problems such as shortages, rationing, inferior product quality, and illegal markets
As mentioned above, price controls are a form of government-mandated economic intervention. They are meant to make things more affordable for consumers and are also commonly used to help steer the economy in a certain direction. For instance, these restrictions may be deemed necessary in order to curb inflation. Price controls are opposite to prices set by market forces, which are determined by producers because of supply and demand.2
Price controls are commonly imposed on consumer staples. These are essential items, such as food or energy products. For instance, prices were capped for things like rent and gasoline in the United States. Controls set by the government may impose minimums or maximums. Price caps are referred to as price ceilings while minimum prices are called price floors.
Although the reasons for price controls may be affordability and economic stability, they may have the opposite effect. Over the long term, price controls have been known to lead to problems such as shortages, rationing, deterioration of product quality, and illegal markets that arise to supply the price-controlled goods through unofficial channels. Producers may experience losses, especially if prices are set too low. This can often lead to a drop in the quality of available goods and services.
March 24, 2022
Price controls have costs whose severity depends on the broadness of the control and the degree to which it changes the price from the free-market price. The costs include the following:
Most of these costs are straightforward, but allocative inefficiency requires some explanation: Because QD is greater than QS in the second figure, there is a shortage of the product, and sellers must figure out how to allocate a limited supply. Perhaps they sell only to longtime customers or customers who also buy other products, or they just limit the quantity that each customer can buy.3 Rent control forces landlords to keep renting to existing tenants at artificially low prices. Such “non-price rationing” is inefficient because some buyers who don’t get the good would be willing to pay more for them. Producers would be willing to increase production and sell to consumers who want to buy at a higher price, but price controls make that illegal.
I'm still trying to analyze what the reasoning was for this key part of her economic plan.
1. Does her team really think this is a good idea? In that case, her economic advisers will be introducing ruinous economic policies to our country.
2. Is this nothing more than a political ploy to get elected and they would never really do it? That's often what politicians do but to propose something this counterproductive?
3. They must be assuming that Americans are stupid and don't understand basic demand/supply fundamentals in a free market or know anything about history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1K_LvqWGfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCeP_QsuJgY
“This is pandering to populists who just want low prices and free stuff, but don’t remember basic high school economics,” he said. “And they don’t remember the 1970s.”
Capito Releases One-Year Report on Inflation Reduction Act’s Failed Promises
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If the name reflected what it really represented , it would have been called the Fake climate crisis, crony capitalism, wasteful government spending, efficient energy killing, inflation causing act!
I’m never in favor of price controls. Regardless, if one were to more closely and objectively examine the data behind the inflation issue, they’d realize that this really isn’t too much of a negative for the Biden admin:
Thanks much, Larry!
Except that's not what happened and that's not the main explanation for the graph which conveniently is mostly European countries impacted the greatest by Biden's inflationary war with Russia/Putin.....because they were closest and most dependent on supply chains impacted the most...especially their natural gas.
Here's the graph again. Note the US had the HIGHEST inflation in the world by a wide margin in 2021.
Ours peaked a few months after Biden's war with Russia started but we can see that Europe's inflation actually spiked much higher after that.
Much of this was tied to record high natural gas prices in Europe during that time frame. We produce our own natural gas in the United States and it wasn't as bad here.
Biden, blowing up the Russian natural gas pipeline to Europe(Germany) in 2022 MADE IT WORSE NOT BETTER!
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Biden/Harris caused our inflation to be WORSE(Trump started it) but he caused Europe's inflation to be MUCH WORSE.
Think about how diabolical it was, with Europe having an unprecedented natural gas shortage and crippling price spike higher.....for Joe Biden to blow up Russia's natural gas line for his political agenda.
*By coincidence, I posted on this on the Ukraine thread earlier today.
Re: Re: Ukraine anxious after Biden’s exit
By metmike - Aug. 17, 2024, 8:31 a.m.
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https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2023/html/ecb.blog20230224~3b75362af3.en.html
Here's a post/reply following the extremely misleading one that you shared sincerely.
Why does Japan have such low inflation?
·
It's misleading to show YOY numbers, and not the cumulative inflation, but you probably knew that because that's what you chose to show.
This certainly was not all Bidens fault.
The US printing money like there’s no tomorrow began long before he became president and made this inevitable when we went way overboard with it because of COVID.
more on that shortly.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042015/how-does-money-supply-affect-inflation.asp
Key Takeaways
Note the date this came out. There were numerous sources telling us well beforehand that high inflation was inevitable because of our poor management/wasteful overspending by government and excessive money printing.
Some great graphs from this source! I'm not recommending any of their investments.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/money-printing-and-inflation%3A-covid-cryptocurrencies-and-more
Contributor Ron Surz
Published
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metmike: The solution is NOT price controls but government control and streamlined spending. This includes balancing the budget and NOT printing out massive sums of money.
This would be very effective in controlling inflation, except politicians and government find these solutions to be extremely unpopular because giving people stuff generates more votes.
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The price gouging lie by Harris is a lot like the lie by Trump about immigration brings crime. They both have a tiny grain of truth. Of course, the inflation problem is largely the trillions of dollars printed during the pandemic. Were there isolated examples of price gouging? Sure, but nothing compared to the money printing under Trump (6 trillion) and under Biden (1.7 trillion).
It is a bad move politically by Harris to include it in her economic proposal. Because even though it is one tiny part of her proposal, it is the ONLY thing being talked about by the red team, as evidenced by this long thread here on MF. We are all biased, so have at it.
While neither political party exercises any fiscal discipline, I'm amused that the GOP pretends to be responsible. What a joke!
As long as we are talking economics can we all agree how stupid Trump's idea of imposing tariffs on imports is. It CAUSES inflation. Naaah. Let's bash Harris as a communist instead.
Larry says "not a negative".....damn in this day and age with big gov give aways a mile deep and the American population all in favor of an entire policy based on more and bigger give aways how could it be a negative.
Hey mc,
I said “not as big of a negative” for Biden when looking more carefully at what occurred even though many folks will still fully blame him due to it being on his watch. I suggest you read this and see what you think:
Because even though it is one tiny part of her proposal, it is the ONLY thing being talked about by the red team, as evidenced by this long thread here on MF. We are all biased, so have at it.
Thanks very much, joj!
Your great views are always welcome and usually spot on, including good points in the last post. However, this is a blatant mischaracterization because you belong to the blue team.
1. This is a trading forum. Economic policy SHOULD get more discussion than other things. In fact, I think a link to this thread should be copied above to the Trading Forum for that reason in thinking about your comments objectively.
2. With absolute certainty I have a bias on many topics. However, I bend over backwards to practice the scientific method.........including applying it in politics with an objective of learning things from the side that disagrees with me, then sharing it here. I do NOT affiliate strongly with either party. When I find facts that suggest I'm wrong.......I celebrate because its an opportunity to learn, instead of always going to places that tell me I'm right and using them to defend flawed thinking(which I no doubt have done before because of bias).
With regards to "Trumps" tariffs.
He's not the only one.
https://www.cfr.org/article/weighing-bidens-china-tariffs
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https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/trump-tariffs-biden-tariffs/
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Unfortunately, there is NOTHING the United States can do to stop global progress and our country getting a smaller and smaller share of the world's economic pie
However, there should be plenty for everyone and we can do smart things in our country to maximize what the shrinking share is. Like smarter monetary policy, balancing the budget, less government pork spending and firing all the corrupt politicians (kidding on the last one as that would mean NO politicians).
Free trade and good economic relationships with other countries should be in our best interest.
The World in 2050 The long view: how will the global economic order change by 2050?
https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/research-insights/economy/the-world-in-2050.html
This report sets out our latest long-term global growth projections to 2050 for 32 of the largest economies in the world, accounting for around 85% of world GDP.
Key results of our analysis (as summarised also in the accompanying video) include:
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Our politicians don't discuss this and maybe the average person living in the United States isn't aware or wants to deny it but IT'S INEVITABLE!
There are over 2 billion really smart people living in Asia that will be exploiting the wonderful modern age technologies vs only 330 MILLION really smart people in the United States...........with our huge head start. They WILL pass us up.
Basically 7 times more people. The math and results are undeniable.
Tariffs are barriers to free global trade.
Larry, sorry I quoted you by memory but to be fair you mis quoted your self also. I should of left the quote marks off to be accurate. The quote was "isn't too much a negative"
On inflation. I was taught old school Inflation is too many dollar chasing to few goods and services.
And America has pushed this cart way too far down the road to ruin. Both parties no virgins here.
Free trade is good but must be free both ways, or reciprocal.
Hey mc,
Lol, sorry that after you misquoted me that I even misquoted me. That’s pretty bad.Too funny!!
To summarize where I stand:
-Against price controls as they don’t work from everything I’ve read. Nixon tried them and they were a disaster as I recall.
-Against widespread tariffs as they tend to be inflationary. Adding to inflation pressure is the last thing we need imho.
-Both Biden and Trump have implemented tariffs. Have they worked or have they had a net negative effects? I don’t have the answer as I don’t think there’s an easy answer.
- Trump wants across the board 10% tariffs on all imports. That seems awfully drastic and would likely lead to inflation for the consumer from what I’ve read. So, why even go there?
-I’m with cutworm on tending to favor free trade for the most part if all agree to it! Didn’t Republicans use to favor that?
I’d like opinions on how y’all think Harris did in answering this press question about how to pay for her economic policies:
I’ll look at it shortly, Larry.
wanted to add that my previous post about competition with Asia was very blind to a couple of important elements.
1. they can manufacture products cheaper than us, especially since their people will work for MUCH less and that gives them a huge advantage.
2. this advantage only shrinks when their wages increase faster than ours.
3. it’s sort of a catch 22 with us currently STILL benefiting from a carryover of many advantages but them destined to out compete because of clear NEW AND FUTURE ADVANTAGES. More growth for them. Than us. The not so easy trick for us is how to still have overall growth.
4. automation could play a huge role but that might mean less jobs here.
5. our energy policies will be a key Factor too. Cheap, reliable energy is the lifeblood of every developed country’s economy.
other thoughts welcomed.
cutworm,
I would think,producers in our country like free trade….no tariffs..because we sell so many ag products to China.
china could Get into a tariff war with us and send their AG demand to South America, for instamce.
Larry,
Sorry for the delay. I didn't want to wake my wife up earlier to watch the video.
She sounds great to me but it's one question from one reporter in a clip that lasts one minute.
Personally, I think that since she's a former prosecutor and professional politician, her debate and speaking skills are much better than what the Rs keep insisting, like apparently this R commenting about her answer did.
Trump, on the other hand is well past his prime and was never great/polished at it. I've noted a slow degradation in Trump's communicating skills the last X number of years, related to his advancing mental illness.
His weakest points now clearly define him more and more. He can't STAY focused on messages AND defiantly brags about not doing it at rallys because that's what gets his base the most fired up.........which is what his ego feeds on........which is his Kryptonite.
He must have dozens of advisers and people that consult with him to find out the best strategies to win in November. And we hear it constantly from the conservative gate keepers. But he just won't do it.
His childish person attacks and name calling when referring to Harris are off the charts offensive to most people, other than his base and comes from pathological thinking which disqualifies him from being the president if you base it on character.
Sorry to go off in a different direction but I'm CONTRASTING Harris with her opponent.
Biden compared to Trump or compared to anybody looked extraordinarily bad.
Harris compared to Trump, looks young, stays on message, decent communication skills and acts like a respectful adult. Decisive enough for non Maga voters to decide who to vote for.
Harris compared to somebody like JD Vance or another very skilled R politician would look bad........ but she's running against Trump.
The only person Trump could have ever beat was Biden.
After Biden withdrew, we saw the historically significant, record movement/shift(in such a brief period) of people supporting 1 candidate and not the other.
This was very predictable and what I said would happen as soon as they replaced Biden and turned age lemons into lemonade with Trump now being the old, delusional guy NOT the D.
What will change that?
With the MSM cheerleading for Harris(they had abandoned Biden after his debate flop) and using every offensive/dumb thing or lie that Trump says (there are dozens every time he speaks) as their top story.........nothing can.
Theoretically, the debate(s) can alter people's views and many will watch but, I'm telling you that Harris will outperform what every R thinks now and what Fox tells them afterwards. Trump can't win unless he does something he's not been able to do thus far.
And even if Trump somehow managed to stay focused on messages and acted respectful for 1 night on a debate stage and didn't brag and didn't tell lies........who could possibly accept this as anything more than a 1 time aberration?
The 1 thing that it could do is expose Harris's extremely bad policies, including her track record as VP and previous extreme left, socialist statements.
JD Vance and most Rs could destroy her by doing this. But the MEGA majority in the R party got bamboozled by Trump and they are paying the price in the general election, where they are NOT the majority.
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OK, I'll add another possibility.
If we get into WW3 in the Middle East or Russia responds to NATO attacking inside Russia with a nuclear attack or crippling cyber attack, it has the POTENTIAL for people to forget everything else and realize (with Russia at least) that the Biden/Harris administration caused it.
In that case, Trump's legit promise for peace with Russia could look extremely sweet.
In the Middle East? The Biden/Harris administration have been a joke regardless of what side you are on, mainly because of Biden's complete lack of credibility.
I get that Biden has been powerless and Netanyahu is a charismatic, diabolical, vengeful psychopath trying to save his own skin who will NOT listen to anybody, including Biden.
But Biden keeps pretending that he has control which is not there.
Netanyahu clearly wants Trump for president based on Trump's position vs Harris. I doubt he will have enough to say about our election to make a difference.
By metmike - Aug. 18, 2024, 8:13 a.m.
https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-campaign-shifts-attention-inflation-1945018
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This is one of the few times in history, the media is not holding a person running for president accountable for bad policies while in office and instead the media promotes their supposedly fixing of the problems that they caused.
I'm especially talking about the Inflation Causing Act, misnamed the Inflation Reduction Act after being originally called the "Climate Bill(but they changed, only the name to the inflation reduction act to trick Americans into thinking it would do the complete opposite of what it was destined to do).
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/26/harris-trump-inflation-economy-ad-00176368
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The MSM has elevated her to "the chosen one" and is serving as mouth pieces and cheerleaders to promote her manufactured realities designed to get elected.
And the blatant lies about what its doing.
Higher clean energy tax credit costs mean they are working better than expected.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-inflation-reduction-act-still-reduces-the-deficit/
Robust uptake of the IRA’s clean energy credits is unmistakably beneficial both for the planet and for Americans’ fuel and utility bills; the dramatic expansion of the nation’s clean energy transition helps make possible the U.S. goal to cut climate pollution to half of peak levels by 2030.4 Economists predict that it will cut costs for consumers, including up to $220 in annual savings per household for electricity bills, while helping spur $178 billion in clean energy and transportation investment in the first three quarters of 2023
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This is just a flat out lie!
Here, let me PROVE IT:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nat. Gas
By metmike - Aug. 27, 2024, 2:13 p.m.
The last time that natural gas prices were this low in the month of August was 1995!!!!
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/natural-gas
Natural gas is a FOSSIL FUEL!!!
We use it as the MAIN energy source to heat/cool our homes and to generate electricity.
In most realms, its CHEAPER than renewables, does MUCH LESS damage to the environment than solar/wind and is 100 times more dependable/reliable.
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https://www.e-education.psu.edu/ebf301/node/457
.png)
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At least Harris has abandoned her position from 4 years ago which insisted that we ban fracking for natural gas(which would shut down production).
However, anybody that energy ignorant and extreme 4 years ago, can't possibly understand our energy system and why it will be IMPOSSIBLE to have her insane policies implemented. Just trying to do it, like the fake inflation reduction act is DAMAGING to the economy/causes inflation.
https://www.newsweek.com/kroger-executive-admits-company-gouged-prices-above-inflation-1945742
https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harriss-housing-plan-would-worse-doing-nothing-opinion-1948724
