Maybe not nearly this important for most people but ending this horrible war was the reason that metmike voted for President last year!

The profound evidence here in February, 2025 is validating my reasoning for this. 

Just look at all the gatekeeping war mongers..........the US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex, NATO/Europe and  corrupt, Ukrainian people betrayer/dictator/NATO puppet Zelensky objecting vehemently .........TO PEACE.

Ending their 3 years of using the 1.5 million soldiers(the majority that became casualties), their families and countries for their self enriching bonanza!

So much human suffering that never needed to happen if Biden/Zelensky had not stopped negotiating with Putin. If they had not insisted that NATO was getting Ukraine(Putin's main objection and reason to invade). 

Yes, Putin was and is a very diabolical man but Biden, Zelensky and NATO had exactly the thing to stop him.......negotiate or tell him no NATO in Ukraine and THEY CHOSE WAR!!!

Trump chooses negotiating.

In 2021/22 the deal that Russia was offering Ukraine was to LOSE NOTHING. Just don't let NATO take over Ukraine, especially eastern Ukraine. NATO/Biden/Zelensky vehemently rejected that deal and stopped negotiations, telling Russia that, instead they would fight  a war with them over NATO in  Ukraine.

And so they did, for almost 3 years. Winner’s of wars as with every war get what they were fighting for, NOT the loser. In this case, the margin of victory for Russia on the battlefield was 99 to 1 for the last year. Russia's human casualty toll was greater than Ukraine's...........with our so called "good guys" propaganda sources constantly  encouraging us to hate those Russian human beings that fought, based on the country they were born in and the objectives of their leader and celebrate their deaths.

Here on February 19, 2025 they openly display their disdain for peace in Ukraine and the end of their despicable 3 years of self enriching at the expense of 1.5+ million brave soldiers and their families.  

Instead of celebrating the upcoming peace, along with the Ukrainian people that will be rejoicing....they reject it and turn the peacemaker into a diabolical villain for telling the truth and ending their war.

Regardless of what your feelings are for Trump, please celebrate with me, the Ukrainian people and those who strive for peace not war. Love not hate. Life not death......regardless of what form it takes, who brings it or what party brings it.

++++++++++++

How about we all stop hating Putin, Russia and Trump for just long enough to recognize a massive gift bestowed to Ukraine's citizens/soldiers (NOT the corrupt politicians, including Zelensky that want more war),

The gift to  Russians(the human beings) that  want this war to end, 

The US(except for the Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex that want more war)

 And ithe entire world(except for NATO, with their obsession To get Ukraine and destroy Russia which caused the war).

                Hate(and love)                        

                22 responses |         

                Started by metmike - Oct. 17, 2023, 4:15 p.m.   https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99752/

Trump isn't "negotiating".  He is dictating terms to the Ukranians.  He may not be a Russian agent, but he certainly is Putin's stooge.  

Zelensky's approval ratings among Ukrainian's is at 60% despite the misery they are suffering.  Even his political opponents who have been critical of him have come to his defense after Trump attacked him publicly.  

I'd give Trump the Neville Chamberlain award for rewarding unprovoked military aggression but that wouldn't be fair to Chamberlain.  At least when Chamberlain was kissing Hitler's rear, he wasn't blaming Czechoslovakia for being invaded.

The free people of Europe are horrified by Trump siding with Russia.  And don't believe the LIE from Trump that they should put up more money.  Europe has given more than the US toward the defense of Ukraine.  And 70% of the money we did give went to US weapons manufacturers.

Zelensky's approval ratings among Ukrainian's is at 60%

Thanks, joj!

Yeah, I read all that stuff too.

A long time ago, probably starting when I was reading some of the convincing sounding,  extreme predictions about how we are destroying the planet because of the increase in a beneficial gas, CO2 that’s greening up the planet

, I stopped believing most things out there that make no sense. 

Even if they tag it with false narratives like  "98% of climate scientists" blah blah blah. 

I AM a climate(atmospheric) scientist!

Anyway, I am NOT a Ukrainian citizen in this case but does that statement about Zelensky's positive approval rating pass the smell test?

After everything that's happened and he's done to Ukraine?

200,000 soldiers in his army deserted because they didn't want to fight his NATO war.

He was elected in 2019 on a platform of negotiating peace with Russia!

The US propaganda machine won't tell us these rock solid facts as they keep us in the dark but THE UKRAINIANS KNOW IT!

So with that being the case, let's say......a year ago when his term was getting ready to expire and democratic elections allowed other people to run against him, if somebody ran on "negotiating peace with Russia to end the war" and "hold Zelensky accountable" while he maintained his "fight Russian forever, no matter that our army is almost gone and we're losing more land every day" position.

How would anybody that wants to objectively try to imagine being a Ukrainian in early 2024 think that Zelensky had a snowballs chance?

60% positive approval ratings?

Just like 98% of climate scientists think the we have a climate crisis but I don't need to be a Ukrainian to understand how a Ukrainian likely thinks.

I already know how most Americans think...............they read propaganda, false narratives, disinformation and go to their favorite sources, usually tied to a political affiliation to hear/read what they want to be true.

Or go to echo chambers with similar mindsets that reinforce each other.

It's 2025. The information gatekeepers have a million times more communicating power using the advanced technologies  to impose their agenda on us.

But we have a million+ times more information at our disposal to see the OPPOSITE sides and THE AUTHENTIC TRUTHS. 

But most people are either too lazy, don’t have the time or investigative instincts to spend hours fact checking or performing an open minded/objective analysis, that INCLUDES the information they don't want to be true when all they need to do is go to their favorite news source that will do it for them........Fox News or the NY Times, NPR or CNN for instance.

Most people pick those sources based on HOW THEY INTERPRET the news.  We will always be skeptical of things that we don't want to believe but almost never be skeptical of things that we already believe. Our cognitive bias automatically accepts things we already believe, to be stored in our brains as what we consider, knowledge.........even if it completely contradicts the truth.

I am that way too..........but I also practice the scientific method and use Fox AND CNN, NPR and sources on both sides......even extremely right and left sources that I know are hogwash 95%+ of the time because:

1. I love hearing/reading and knowing what ALL the views are. Often, for entertainment purposes when its complete hogwash but still its informative about how other people think. knowing how other people think is imperative to try to understand why they think it.

2. Even sources that strike out most of the time, hit some grand slams on rare occasions with profound truths. If you keep them out ALL the time.......you will never witness the revelations of the profound truth they uncover SOME of the time.

+++++++

added: according to polls in Russia, 86% of Russians have a favorable view of Putin. That is probably from several factors. Russians get a lot of propaganda and distorted interpretations of the pro Putin news. The media there is controlled by or fearful of Putin as our many entities. . Also, Russians are very nationalistic thinking. Also, Putin is n an evil guy for sure but the West never reports on good things or when he’s telling the truth….like he is right now about NATO.

its hard for Americans to wrap their brains around the truth here. Putin is a much more reliable source than NATO on this topic.

HOWEVER, I don’t look at it as taking 1 side over the other, which is how the MSN and others vilify Trump.

They claim that he’s Putins puppet or Putin has control over him. That’s sort of funny when Trump is seen by those same sources as a dictator that tells everybody what to do.

But somehow, Putin has this magical power over the global dictator telling everybody else what to do Which makes him the dictator of the dictator.
The analysis of why he might be doing this or why they say he is doing this is a million miles long and based on contrasting opinions that both sound convincing and will never change or agree with each other…..so I can’t prove anything I think about the Putin-Trump relationship.

but will make one profound point. It’s a million times better to be at peace with Russia than at war, like weve been.

NO, we aren’t lowering our standards or giving up on Ukraine as the propaganda tells us.

We are raising our standards and war thresholds, giving Ukraine the peace it’s been,pleading for, reducing tensions with Russia, saving tax payers money, reducing the chances of WW3 and reducing global inflation by allowing Russian supplies back on the market.

And saving lives, resources, emitting less greenhouse gases and emitting much less real pollution.

Yet, Donald Trump bringing this to the world is receiving tremendous resistance!

What we should be looking at is what the resisting forces will be losing when their war ends!!

He is dictating terms to the Ukranians.  

I'm confident that if we did an honest poll of Ukainians, that included all the soldiers FORCED to fight NATO's war because of terms that Zelensky dictated, especially the 200,000 that deserted the Ukraine army, especially the families of the dead soldiers,  that we would find an extraordinarily strong preference for them to prefer having PEACE dictated to them compared to the hell they've gone thru the past 3 years under Zelensky dictating to them for something THEY DONT WANT.

I will go further on this and speculate that if Trump was doing exactly this and running for president of Ukraine right now and running against Zelensky (after he allows elections to return) Trumps margin of victory would be one of the biggest in Ukraine history.

This is very crystal clear based on ignoring the propaganda and comprehending what Ukrainians have wanted the most the past decade.  PEACE WITH RUSSIA and stopping the widespread corruption.

Zelensky promised them that he would do this to be elected in 2019. Why would they reward him for, betraying that promise on a galactic scale?

Trump is fulfilling Zelensky's promise to bring peace with Russia. Trump will be seen as a great hero by millions of Ukrainians based on common sense......which the MSM will NOT report. 

Ukraine does not want NATO as much as NATO wants Ukraine. Ukrainians want peace. Zelensky doesn't want peace, like the people he represents  because NATO/Biden took him over. The US propaganda won't tell you that but most Ukrainians know this. It's been their lives.

We've been sold on the idea that sending Ukrainian soldiers on suicide missions, with billions of dollars of our weapons  to hurt Russia for NATO's objectives is somehow supporting Ukrainians.

What sort of a deal is that?

If you and me made a deal, using our families, with me providing the resources but your end meant doing all the work under the worst conditions on the planet that included sacrificing many lives of family members..........for a cause that you don't even believe in, no way that you or anybody would sign up for that. This is what the Biden/Zelensky/NATO deal DICTATED to Ukrainians has been for 3 years.

Compare that to Trumps peace deal!

Their numbers of dead, permanently disabled and desertions have been massively under reported here as part of the propaganda to keep the support for the flow of US weapons going but Ukrainians KNOW the real numbers. It's THEIR families, THEIR friends, THEIR people that are being decimated for a losing battle with nothing but extreme pain for NEGATIVE gains.

Trump is dictating the terms of THEIR long sought after peace to them in February 2025!!

The propaganda gatekeepers want us to think that Trump is the villain and Zelensky is the hero. All the authentic facts prove the complete opposite.

Trumps dictated terms of peace are 1 million times better than Zelensky/BIden/NATOs dictated terms of war, which have had 0 benefits, while forcing them to die for somebody else's cause.

Not surprising, when the truth that I've been speaking out about and PROVING for 3 years with authentic facts, rational/logical thinking and empathy for human beings comes out, the gatekeepers of propaganda turn to their playbook book and pull out a favorite false narrative.

"It's Russian propaganda" so we can't believe it.

Don't believe a word or apply common sense because "it's Russian propaganda"

We are brainwashed to believe that Russia is the devil and they never tell the truth and we are the good guys that never lie.

So believe everything that we tell you and nothing that Russia tells you. NO MATTER WHAT.  Don't waste your valuable time actually applying logical thinking or uncovering relevant facts on your own. Just believe us. We did all the work and our version is always pure and honest. 

Then, all the other colluding gatekeepers on this topic (motivated by the diabolical Military-Industrial-Political-Media Complex and NATO objectives, repeat the same thing over and over and it appears to be compelling evidence of the truth.

2+2 =5  Will never be the truth, no matter how many times its repeated.

Thomas Sowell Interview , "Social Justice Fallacies"            

             Started by cutworm - Dec. 18, 2023, 6:19 p.m.      

      https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/101353/

(joj, this is NOT a commentary on you. You are an intelligent man very capable of seeing both sides on many issues.) We agree strongly on MANY things.

And as an operational meteorologist predicting weather for over 4 decades, I know that I’m wrong sometimes and the objective should always be to constantly re evaluate and look for reasons why the forecast is wrong to adjust as fast as possible in the direction of right!
Thats also known as the scientific method but it applies in every realm outside of science too.

Crazy world that we live in today where the majority of people can be totally convinced that up is down and down is up.

And its the "totally convinced" part that is scary. This means no room to listen to the other side or consider solid facts that contradict what we think that we know.

Just process all new information based on preconceived notions and cognitive bias to strengthen whatever divisive views we already have.

Being part of tribalistic thinking and groups that provide positive reinforcement to each other. 

In many cases, use this thinking to judge and hate people that are not like us, especially if they disagree with us.........even our own family and friends!

Look at what it's doing to our society. To our respect for other people. To the ways that many people  communicate on social media. And each year that passes is another year in which it is just a bit WORSE than the previous year. The trend is NOT our friend in this case!

Why is Ukraine’s army facing a desertion crisis?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/21/why-is-ukraines-army-facing-a-desertion-crisis

21 Oct 2024

Ukrainian army commanders put the ratio of Russian versus Ukrainian combatants at 10 to 1.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Entire units are fleeing: AP has learned the real number of deserters in the Ukrainian Armed Forces

November 29, 2024 

https://ukrainetoday.org/entire-units-are-fleeing-ap-has-learned-the-real-number-of-deserters-in-the-ukrainian-armed-forces/

According to some sources, the actual number of deserters may reach 200,000 people.

Mass desertions deprive the Ukrainian army of much-needed manpower and undermine its battle plans at a crucial moment in the war with Russia, which could put Kiev at a disadvantage in future cease-fire negotiations.

“The best way to explain it is to imagine that you are sitting under fire, and from their (Russian) side there are 50 shells flying at you, and from ours – only one. Then you see how your friends are being blown to pieces, and you understand that at any second it can happen to you, too,” he said.

+++++++++++++

This is the hand that Biden, Zelensky and NATO left for Trump. Exactly how does one expect Trump to turn an obliterating losing hand, getting worse and worse every single day into a powerful negotiating position?

The best he can do is hurry up and end the tremendous losses ASAP, while giving the Ukrainians the peace they have always wanted. People that think this should include joining NATO need to have their heads examined. Or giving back all the land that Ukraine lost. 

Biden, Zelensky and NATO stopped negotiations and told Putin this would be settled on the battlefield and have not veered from that position. Yes, the battlefield was Ukraine because that's what they were battling over......whether NATO would get Ukraine or whether NATO would stay out of Ukraine. They TOLD Putin that NATO(which clearly wants to destroy Russia) was expanding into ALL OF Ukraine, right up to the border or Russia. Putin told them, no way will he ever allow that. 

Who won that 3 year battle decisively?

Now Trump is supposed to get everything back and get Ukraine into NATO???

However, 1 of the most important things of all will be the requirement of dictator Zelensky to restore democratic elections IMMEDIATELY so that Ukrainians, once again will have their democracy. I will be shocked if they reward Zelensky with a 2nd term after what he did to them in his first term but right now, his legal first term is expired. Martial law?  That's an excuse. If Zelensky thought he could win, he would have allowed elections to  extend the legality and legitamacy of his presidency. He KNOWS THAT HE WILL LOSE. Only people brainwashed on propaganda that make it impossible for them to comprehend the REAL situation in Ukraine and mindset of the the people could possibly think that Zelensky is popular and could be elected again.

Exclusive: US refusing to co-sponsor UN motion backing Ukraine ahead of war anniversary, diplomats say

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-refusing-co-sponsor-un-motion-backing-ukraine-ahead-war-anniversary-diplomats-2025-02-20/

++++++++++++++++

NATO has an impossible position that could NEVER end the war. It started the war and they have refused to back down and in fact, it becomes a more absurd position every month that they continue to demand more and more of the things they keep losing by making extreme demands from a side that has been completely obliterated and has no position to negotiate terms from.

These idiots keep making it worse and worse and worse for Ukraine and call it "backing Ukraine" while they completely ignore the 1 thing that actual Ukrainians have been screaming for PEACE.

They TOOK the peace away from Ukraine because NATO wants Ukraine and to destroy Russia. That is NOT what Ukraine wants. Ukrainians want peace and harmony with Russia and to stop all this dang corruption and using of Ukrainian citizens by the politicians, government, NATO and United States for their self serving agendas and self enrichment.

Biden tipped his hand as VP, when he betrayed Ukrainians and his own country as he exploited his position as point man to fix Ukrainian corruption to instead, self enrich the Biden crime family by millions of dollars by extorting/using their corruption. Instead of fixing it like he was assigned to do, VP Biden made Ukraine corruption worse to make his family richer. 

Biden was never about supporting Ukrainians and giving them what they have always wanted.

This is the hand that he left Trump to negotiate with and incredibly, everybody squawks that Trump isn't getting a great deal.

The great deals were on the table in 2021 and 2022 and Biden/Zelensky and NATO emphatically rejected ALL of them and in fact, completely closed the negotiations and told Russia they would defeat them in a war.

Some of the same sources trying to convince us that Zelensky has a 60% approval rating have also been trying to convince us that the people of Russia are revolting against Putin because of this war.

Thousands of Russians join Navalny-inspired 'noon against Putin' election protest

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/noon-against-putin-thousands-russians-turn-out-fulfil-navalnys-last-wish-2024-03-17/

+++++++++++++++++++

While there are reasons to explain Putins near record high approval rating right now, there's no denying that he's getting very strong support from the people of Russia for the war in Ukraine.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/

This is the complete opposite of the people in Ukraine THAT WANT PEACE with Russia more than anything .........and Zelensky gave them the exact opposite. In addition, Zelensky took away the ability of Ukrainians  to vote him out. We hear that its not his fault because under Martial Law in Ukraine, elections can't be held.

Seriously???

Who do they think issued Martial Law, knowing that it meant no elections?

Yep, Dictator Zelensky!

So no presidential election until Dictator Zelensky decides to lift Martial Law........which is another reason that he doesn't want peace. Once peace occurs and elections restored, it highly unlikely that Zelensky will be replaced by somebody that  has a pro Ukrainian agenda, NOT a pro NATO, pro war with Russia position that defines the reasons for all of Zelensky's decisions. 

++++++++++++++

Zelenskyy's approval rating grows to 57%, debunking Trump's 4% support claim

https://www.yahoo.com/news/zelenskyys-approval-rating-grows-57-115313426.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=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&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAElrkHtRfq-F-rA16zKfR31nw-BQUy1pwPuDYu0BTQ8wq_8crM6JtUCPjfKAdhSmsmrn9hjtL5sRykliwaaWlDJkdB1_BLW2bND8PMFdIk6sX7C03WlCjEi2OM0E6EgK675GxIDIF2-A5isq9Vlr7x5xZ7a6uS0VUFOl9um5LqSi

++++++++++++++

While Trumps comment that Zelensky's rating is 4% was really, REALLY dumb, the growing favor-ability to 57% statistic is also complete nonsense. Just because we can find numerous sources that state that sort of thing doesn't make it real.  It just means numerous sources are colluding with the same propaganda which really, REALLY defies the reality/truth.

Here's another report, for our entertainment.

Ukraine: President Zelenskyy's popularity took a dip in 2024, poll shows

Tuesday, 7 January 2025

https://www.brusselstimes.com/1382476/ukraine-president-zelenskyys-popularity-took-a-dip-in-2024-poll-shows

++++++++++++

I can't possibly know what the real number is. Only that its' way, WAY lower than it was at the start of the war and has been continually dropping. Also that the numbers we hear are extremely likely to be greatly inflated. No way the people would have rewarded  Zelensky with a 2nd term (after what he did to them) if he hadn't canceled elections. 

The talking heads on Anderson cooper from CNNe tonight and with many others sources  are insisting that Trump is giving Putin too much and he needs to negotiate from a position of strength.

1. Zelensky once had a position of strength in 2020 and 2021, when he was still negotiating.

2. Late 2021,enter the picture Joe Biden, who tells Zelensky to stop negotiating. Instead of having a,peace agreement with Putin (who tried hard to negotiate peace and to keep NATO out  before invading) they decided that defeating Russia in a war on Ukrainian turf was a better idea. That way, they could get all the land back AND NATO would get Ukraine based on the Biden/Zelensky plan.

3. In 2022,they continued to fight a war with Putin and not negotiate. They were destined to lose from the start, so fighting more and longer just increased the damage that .no negotiating  with Putin incurred.

4.,In 2023, they continued to not negotiate as the losses mounted on both sides And late in the year, Russia started making big gains. Biden/Zelensky still refused to  negotiate  as Ukraines position got weaker and weaker.

5. in 2024, the Ukrainian position completely fell apart and it turned into a one sided route of ukraine. Ukraine lost all of the strength they ever had theoretically as Russia marched forward into less and less resistance over a Ukraine Army that was obliterated and had lost the war.

6. Trump took office in 2025 after the Ukraine army had completely lost the war by a wide margin. Biden and Zelenskyy, the worst military leaders in the history,of the humam race gave up any strengths they once had.

now we hear that Trump should be acting like it was 3 years ago. As if  he can get Putin to act like he never won the war and go back to the same offer on the table to Biden and Zelensky in 2021.

that doesn’t even make sense.

biden and Zelensky left Trump,with an incredibly weak position to negotiate with.

NATO is no chance, no way In any negotiation right now….for sure.

The lost land?

I dunno. Most of it’s not coming back because Zelensky decided to fight over it instead of just negotiating and or agreeing to not let NATO in.

Regardless, Trump can’t take us back in a Time Machine to bring back the offer that Zelensky/Biden had but refused 3 years ago.

we should stop blaming Trump for the weak hand he inherited and blame the ones that caused it to evolve this way.

We should take Zelensky off his pedestal and realize that he is anything but a brave hero, doing things to improve the position of Ukraine.

He is ENTIRELY responsible for causing things to go down this path. The MSN continues with the  very dishonest narrative that  Putin suddenly invaded Ukraine  because unprovoked  Putin wants Ukraine and all Zelensky has done was bravely defend Ukraine.

That is very far from the truth. NATO has been intentionally provoking Russia for decades and just like the US would not allow Russian missiles in Cuba in 1962 and Russia backed down….Russia is not allowing NATO missiles  on its border….but Zelensky was hijacked by NATO AND HE WOULD NOT BACK DOWN to Russias ultimatum. Zelensky made an intentional decision to stop the negotiations on NATO in order to fight a war with Russia that Joe Biden told him he would win because The United States would send him all the advanced war fighting arms and all he had to do to win the NATO war against Russia  was sacrifice his army/people. 

Make his people fight the war….but their sacrifices would be worth it to finally  defeat Russia. They would all be (dead) hero’s but Ukraine would win all its land back and NATO would follow, with its missiles and arms  and protection from soldiers to replace his dead soldiers.

One huge problem with that,plan……the ones making it were the worst military planners and leaders in the history of planet earth.

iUkraine never had a snowballs chance to defeat Russia from the get go. I described why based on the armies amd logistics  early on but  the worst military leaders in history sent Ukrainians on suicide mission anyways.
And refused to negotiate,  instead insisted only on the,path of defeating Russia in a war..

Honest people with an accurate, objective memory know  that was true for years.

the propaganda we were bombarded with NEVER called for negotiating with Russia for peace! It always called for defeating Russias army in the war. Taking back Ukrainian land in the fight, then letting NATO get Ukraine 

That impossible plan failed miserably and Ukraine has been completely crushed in every way, shape and form in the war that Zelensky chose.

Enter the,picture, Donald Trump, who is determined to do the opposite of Zelensky and bring,the peace to all the Ukrainians crying out for peace for years.

The MSM has insanely turned Trump into the villan  And Zelensky into the  brave hero and Trumps victim and insists that Trump is the person selling out Ukraine, not Zelensky …..despite all the facts completely contradicting that……how about massive DEAD BODIES of Ukrainians as 1 example. 

Now Trump is somehow supposed to negotitate with the  strong hand given to Zelensky in 2021….even though it’s 2025 and Russia completely decimated Ukraine in winning the war a long time ago against Zelensky, fighting for NATO. 

Thats impossible!

Trump can only stop the bleeding and start the healing with peace.

He can’t  go back in time and  make it 2021 again and negotiate  with what Zelensky and Biden had then  just like he can’t bring back all the dead, heal the permanently disabled or deserted Ukrainian soldiers that Zelensky sacrificed for NATO.

This is complete insanity to depict Zelensky as a hero/good guy and now, the victim after he did this to his people.

WOW!  Propaganda sure can be powerful!

it’s also mind boggling that nobody is discussing Bidens key role when he hi jacked Zelensky.

There is no speculation. These are indisputable facts proven numerous times in the threads above but censored by the MSM  and message gatekeepers to steal our intelligence and manipulate us.

WOW! This is a long post, sorry about that but it’s needed to describe the TRUTH accurately.

Thanks Mike - When you are faced with a fact you don't like just say it doesn't pass the smell test.  It doesn't make any sense to you because you have bought the Putin/Trump propaganda.  Your bias against the free people of Ukraine is blinding you.  We all have biases.  It's a human trait.  So I don't blame you.

Early in the war hundreds of thousands of Russian men of draft age fled the country.  Not so the young men of Ukraine.  That authentic fact totally blows your assertion, with no evidence at all, that all the Ukranians are wanting to surrender to Putin.  Forgive my hyperbolic flourish.  A skill at which you are far superior to me. 

Putin didn't invade to stop Ukraine from joining NATO.  They had been trying unsuccessfully to do that for more than 10 years.  He invaded because he thought Kyiv would fall easily as Crimea did in 2014.  Was THAT invasion AlSO to stop Ukraine from joining NATO?  I don't expect a straight answer to that authentic fact.  Putin  wants to recreate the great Russian empire.  He has given multiple speeches towards that aim.  That is also an authentic fact.

Trump is pro dictator.  Trump is antidemocratic.  The free people of Europe are horrified by Trump taking sides with Putin.

Thanks, joj!

Thanks Mike - When you are faced with a fact you don't like just say it doesn't pass the smell test.  It doesn't make any sense to you because you have bought the Putin/Trump propaganda.  Your bias against the free people of Ukraine is blinding you.  We all have biases.  It's a human trait.  So I don't blame you.

++++++++

Hugh???

It's like everything that I just posted was in a foreign language for you and rather than get it translated to actually try to comprehend all or even any of the points, most that come with authentic data/facts, you manufactured your own summary, loaded with all the talking points of YOUR sources and what YOU want to believe.

Unlike most people, like you that get their information from sources like the NY Times or WOP (which are good sources on some things) and completely ignore sources that don't interpret the world in a way that lines up with their belief system.

My sources are.......everybody, everywhere. Then I go thru a vigorous process of legit fact checking and applications of logic. Regardless of the topic or what my current view is. It's always the same. We call it the scientific method(which very few scientists actually adhere to) which entails looking for legit reasons for why we might be wrong. It's a key element in accurate weather forecasting.........that results in immediately recognizing reasons for why the forecast philosophy is wrong AND IMMEDIATELY CHANGING IT.

When I post here, I do this BEFORE posting and have caught myself in being wrong about an item or response many dozens of times BEFORE posting it. Things can get by me and I've been wrong AFTER posting too. I do not belong to or affiliate with either major political party.

To categorize me as "Your bias against the free people of Ukraine is blinding you" shows that you never even spent the time to really read my posts. Unless its an attempt to discredit and demean me.

Your response clearly shows no indication that you have actually attempted to comprehend the authentic, fact based analysis as you are loaded with the factually incorrect talking points and false narratives that I've busted to smithereens.

Instead of acknowledging that, likely 200,000 Ukrainians in their army have deserted, you describe it as the complete opposite.........it's  the Ukrainian cause and it's Russia that has the desertions problem.

Instead of acknowledging that what Ukrainians want most is PEACE with Russia and an end to corruption, including Zelensky's you suggest that what they want most is freedom from Russia.

Crimea was a 100% different deal

With regards to invading in 2022, I have shown you a dozen times that it WAS about NATO because NATO continued to expand and until then, Ukraine had been on the much too corrupt list for NATO to even consider taking in Ukraine.....but they were preparing to take Ukraine in at that time. 

Another really galactically absurd talking point(that you expressed before)  is that "Putin is coming for Europe next if we let him get away with this in Ukraine" That couldn't be farther from the truth. That Putin is going to invade NATO countries????

But they use it as part of the propaganda to scare people in order to generate support for their fake cause. Putin is absolutely fighting to keep NATO OUT OF UKRAINE which is on his doorstep. This is a crystal clear, indisputable fact based on all the legit, objective analysis of the dynamics.

Zelensky had been negotiating with Putin, as he promised to get elected in 2019. He met with Joe Biden in the White House in late 2021 and suddenly stopped all communications with Putin and told him that Ukraine was joining NATO and Biden also stopped communicating, along with the same message. Putin was unable to get Biden or Zelensky to negotiate and he threatened to invade. They continued their refusal to have talks of any kind......knowing that Putin would invade. And he did.

Now, for the first time since Biden and Zelensky stopped communications and negotiations with Putin in 2021 President Trump has opened up communications in attempt to seek peace.  The diametrically opposed opposite strategy of Bided/Zelensky/NATO that was designed to provoke Putin into war, then endlessly justify it for over a year after Ukraine had lost by an extremely wide margin and was losing more and more land, more and more lives every single day.

That, my friend is an important fact to comprehend for anybody that actually understands what has been and  is going on and really cares about the Ukrainian people.

 I also want elections in Ukraine for the FREE people there. I note you don't seem to have a problem with Zelensky banning elections to stay in power. Russian/Trump propaganda you say that I'm following?

I came out against this MONTHS before Trump or Russia uttered a peep.

But I understand that you are just repeating what you read from your sources and don't have the time to do independent facts checks or to investigate the authenticity of points made by sources that disagree with you.

I don't expect anybody to read the 1,000+ posts on this at the top of the thread, but it would be nice to at least try a tiny bit to understand/comprehend the NEW posts in this thread with an open mind instead of responding with worn out talking points and propaganda from your manipulative/biased MSM sources that were busted to smithereens so many times already. 

It doesn't make any sense to you because you have bought the Putin/Trump propaganda. Your bias against the free people of Ukraine is blinding you.  We all have biases.  It's a human trait.  So I don't blame you.

joj,

Since somebody hacked MarketForum to ban the moderator from numerous threads that they don't like, I had to use my NON moderator handle to get this from a thread which metmike can't access.

This is in reference to me referring to Zelensky as a dictator and other things because I follow Russia/Trump for my insights. You are 100% wrong about all of that accusation, joj! You are just repeating a narrative that you read elsewhere and using it to discredit me, and not actually reading and comprehending me. If you did, that mischarcterization would have NEVER crossed your mind. There is a 0% basis for you to accuse me of that.

It doesn't happen and never did happen. ALL my work is done independently and objectively with no lean to either party. Not even a tiny bit.

I never shy away from speaking out for freedom and humanity, calling out corruption,  while always using authentic facts and fact checking MYSELF before posting comments.

I have been calling attention to this and everything else completely independent of using Trump or Russia as sources and well before they even brought it up.

This attempt to discredit my information by attaching it to those really bad sources is just a really dishonest tactic if you actually read and comprehend anything I type here.

This is just 1 example below, #5 over 6 months ago of dozens of me referring to Zelensky as a dictator for banning elections via legally imposing martial law.

Ukraine is still one of the most corrupt countries in the world and we made the corruption WORSE (thanks Joe Biden) Their politicians have been manipulating laws and the people for self enrichment and personal agenda for decades. This, actually is to be expected by a guy like Zelensky that sold off and betrayed his people for the NATO devil. 

If Zelensky thought he could win, ELECTIONS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. Only people that  want to be convinced he's a great hero, fighting for freedom and democracy based on false narrative propaganda believe that complete rubbish. 

++++++++++++++++++++++

                 Ukraine anxious after Biden’s exit                        

                By metmike - Aug. 14, 2024, 10:51 p.m.            

We are hearing/reading dozen of stories about Ukraine making this great effort to surprise Russia by attacking inside of Russia.

And it being spun into something 1,000 times greater than the reality........AGAIN!

All the MSM is colluding AGAIN, with the same absurd propaganda. Complete nonsense........AGAIN!

The only thing that jumping into a small spot in Russia,  with no hope of advancing (even while getting whopped worse and worse in Ukraine) is to temporarily increase the areas fighting with this new hot spot and invariably just get more  brave Ukrainian soldiers killed.

But while sending all these brave soldiers on suicide missions.....they will hurt Russia a bit........which is the objective of NATO and the real objective of the war.

Ukraine already lost the war by every reasonable standard a long time ago with half their army killed or permanently disabled.

But instead of negotiating, NATO wants this to continue UNTIL THE LAST DROP OF BRAVE UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS BLOOD IS USED UP because the entire objective  is to weaken Russia/Putin NOT TO SAVE UKRAINIAN LIVES!

In fact, NATO's clear objective is to SACRIFICE AS MANY UKRAINIAN LIVES THAT THEY CAN TO MAXIMIZE DAMAGE TO RUSSIA.

Wake  up America!!!
These are HUMAN BEINGS WITH FAMILIES…..ON BOTH SIDES.

STOP BELIEVING THESE LA LA LAND FLAGRANT  LIES.

OUR TAX DOLLARS VIA MORALLY BANKRUPT, BOUGHT AND PAID FOR (by the military-industrial complex) POLITICIANS in cahoots with ratings seeking, sensationaling activists, pretending  to be objective journalists is the biggest source of this 100% counterproductive endeavor.

Do we want our money to continue to be flushed down the toilet For this never ending war that NATO wants to go on as long as

1. IT CAN KEEP DOING DAMAGE TO RUSSIA

2. There are still some brave  Ukrainians left to fight

3. NATO troops can replace the dead Ukrainians

4. The gullible, bamboozled American people continue to believe  all the propaganda And fund the war.

5. Dictator  Zelensky remains in power, with elections suspended  by him….until the war is over.

1. Any peace agreement should require Russia to pay the VAST majority of damages that Russia caused to keep NATO out of Ukraine.

Again, what Russia did was a crime and they should be held accountable even if they can  justify it…….similar to the US justifying the response to Russia putting missiles in Cuba.

Regardless, those that see thru  the propaganda know that Zelensky, Biden and NATO did everything possible to provoke Russia, completely shutting down negotiations and in fact, striving to stop any chance for peace.

This has been crystal clear to a few of us speaking out, years before Trump got involved and many months before Putin was giving his take.

Trump is the only reason that we are finally moving quickly towards peace.

FINALLY!

+++++++++++++++++

Added: 

2. Zelensky should also be forced to return democracy and elections to the people of Ukraine, instead of extending his reign as president, after his legal term expired last year and he banned elections with a declaration of martial law.

3. Ukraine will also stop the mandatory law, forcing men to sign up for the military and sending them to the front lines on suicide missions AGAINST THEIR WILL. The most heinous violation of their freedoms. Worse than being slaves because making them do this, has such an incredibly high probability of getting them killed or permanently disabled. With the war being over, no need to continue forcing Ukrainian men to sacrifice their lives for NATO/Zelensky's war.

In reversal, Trump says Russia attacked Ukraine

President Donald Trump had said on Tuesday that Ukraine "should have never started" the war three years ago, prompting a wave of criticism both domestically and internationally. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/reversal-trump-says-russia-attacked-ukraine-rcna193299

The media is so, so, so dishonest!

For the 100th time:

1. Russia did invade to stop NATO from getting Ukraine. They should be held accountable.

2. Biden recruited Zelensky to represent NATO's interests in late 2021 and to sacrifice his people to fight NATO's war.  The team of Biden/Zelenky/NATO, then SHUT DOWN all negotiations with Russia on this.

3. Putin THEN threatened to invade if there were no more negotiations.  Biden assured Zelensky/NATO that the United States would defeat Russia if it invaded Ukraine and to continue to NOT negotiate with Russia......because they WANTED the war and for NATO to get Ukraine. They actually thought they would defeat Russia. Seriously!  And they told us that for years!

4. They turned charismatic actor, President Zelensky into a NATO salesmen, traveling to NATO countries to generate support for the NATO war. 

5. At the same time, Zelensky betrayed his own people and his promise to negotiate for peace with Russia if elected as their president in 2019. He sacrificed his country and his people, using them to fight NATO's war with Russia.

6. The message gatekeepers (NATO/corrupt Ukrainian politicians-US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex)  have been MASSIVELY enriched by THEIR war. To keep their war going, they manufactured absurd false narratives. An example is that this is a fight for freedom with good vs evil. HA! When was the last time the real good guys, MADE PEOPLE fight and die in  their war (stealing the soldiers freedoms away) against their will and caused over a million casualties????  Then, stole their democracy and right to vote away to keep their guy in power, while calling it a fight for freedom and democracy???

7. Now that President Trump is doing a full court press to try to finally achieve peace, do note the extreme push back and negative reaction from the same sources that, for 3 years have done everything possible to escalate and sustain the war FOR THEIR AGENDA. You know it's true, even if you hate Trump. In the last 3 years, what  powerful sources in the United States have been crying out for peace? It's always been the same message. Continue the fight(long after the war was lost) escalate the war and defeat evil Russia to get Ukraine into NATO.  

That doesn't seem odd to you, if those sources actually cared about the incredible losses and tragedy to humanity(soldiers and their families) by both sides because of this horrific war?

8. It doesn't seem odd that the biggest, state sponsored eco terrorist incident and release of greenhouse gases (Methane) on planet earth's history by the United States(blowing up Russia's natural gas pipeline to Europe)..........goes  without  investigation? Even while the perpetrator continued to insist that greenhouse gases are destroying the planet.......including the beneficial one, CO2?

9. That Biden can send wicked cluster bombs for Zelensky to use in the war, banned in most countries because they violate humanity.......while Biden/Zelensky are elevated to leaders fighting an ethical war for a just cause(ironically, while getting hundreds of thousands of soldiers slaughtered for an entirely losing cause)?

10. That 200,000 Ukrainian soldiers have deserted the fight for NATO.

11. That with very little army left and losing more land and human beings every day, that Biden/Zelensky would refuse to admit defeat or negotiate for peace and instead, launch long range missiles deeply into Russia to try to escalate and cause Putin to INCREASE the horrific punishment to Ukraine to get them to finally surrender.

12. That Biden/Zelensky/NATO have been the worst military leaders in the history of mankind. Fighting an impossible to win war from the get go. Making really, REALLY bad decisions almost every month for 3 years that caused things to get worse and worse, while NEVER negotiating for peace and insisting on fighting until Russia is defeated. In loony tunes fashion, the MSM elevates them as the good guys and hero and Donald Trump, now seeking peace using rational thought, diplomacy  and humanity saving objectives..........is now the villain!

13. The entities above have turned Russia into this all powerful boogeyman that includes Putin being another Hitler with dreams of invading European countries, if we let him get away with his invasion in Ukraine. Many fairy tales are much closer to the truth. They are doing this for their self serving agendas and enrichment. We should note HOW QUICKLY Putin jumped and responded to Trump reaching out with an olive branch and negotiations. THIS IS WHAT PUTIN HAS WANTED, somebody from our side that will NEGOTIATE!  Putin did not shut down negotiations in 2021, Biden/Zelensky/NATO shut down negotiations and diplomacy because they wanted the war, thinking they could defeat Putin and even if unsuccessful, could weaken Putin and get Ukraine into NATO. 

14. None of this is speculation. It's 100% authentic fact based. Denying the truth because it doesn't match up with what we wish were true or to protect our fragile ego's(admitting it means we were gullible and got hoodwinked and that our favorite sources are massively flawed and dishonest) ..doesn't change the truth.