Embarrassing display of an ambush in front of cameras. (staged)
This is about as much a "negotiating" tactic a mob boss dictating terms.
Not letting Zelensky speak.
We can now add cruel to the list of pejoratives to describe Trump.
Prediction: When Trump hands over Ukraine to Putin he will blame Zelensky. And he will repeat that lie over and over.
Trump may not be a Russian agent but might as well be one.
Contrary to the narrative that Trump will bring peace, Putin has stepped up his drone attacks on Civilians and infrastructure since Trump was elected. Sadly, the war goes on.
Thanks, Joj!
You are exactly right about Trump dictating the terms to Zelensky.
And that it’s more than embarrassing -for me- that Americans have been supporting war and not peace for 3 years.
Now that Trump is involved, the knee jerk reaction by our MSM and others is to be against anything that he is for.
Double down on war and portray peace as something that only Russians want.
As if the human beings in Ukraine, the brave soldiers that died for NATO would have chosen this for their countr because they want to be in NATO and would actually prefer more of this and a continuation of being decimated instead of peace and having their democracy restored by Trump and getting Zelensky out.
there will be no NATO and Zelenskyy will go away.
The sooner, the better. It never had to happen.
It can end right now but Zelensky has to want peace more than NATO.
Care for his people more than NATO.
3 years of always picking NATO and still putting NATO first is making it hard for Trump to bring peace.
Yes, Trump the huge bully forcing peace down the throat of the self serving ukraine betraying , charismatic charlatan that sold his soul to the NATO devil.
Whatever Trumps motives are… thank god for him because he’s the only one actually fighting for what the Ukrainians have been pleading for PEACE!
This post is like a foreign language for people being lied to the past 3 years by the sources that tell them what to think.
All we can do is speak out with the authentic truth and always show the indisputable facts to back it up.
Words are cheap and charlatans know how to use them to manipulate people…..and they have controlled all the diabolical false narratives for 3+ years.
Mike said: “Whatever Trumps motives are… thank god for him because he’s the only one actually fighting for what the Ukrainians have been pleading for PEACE!”
————-
1. Mike, I’d bet heavily that Trump’s main motive is not that he cares about Ukrainians but rather to please his boss, Putin.
———
2. This looks to me like it was very likely scripted/planned in advance starting with VP’s part. Trump is essentially imho following a pre planned script. He’s not normally able to vocalize that smoothly without a memorized script or teleprompter.
Edit: 3. Maybe Trump should change his mantra from “America first” to “Putin first”.
Thanks, Larry!
That seems to be the same crazy logic that many others want to use to justify NOT having peace too.
Assert that Trump is Putins puppet and that we can't have peace because Trump only wants peace because Putin is making him seek peace. We can't have peace because Putin wants peace.
But ignoring the fact that Zelensky betrayed his people's years of pleading for peace(after they elected him based on his platform promising to negotiate for peace) after he was recruited by Joe Biden and NATO as their puppet. Biden told Putin that Ukraine was getting into NATO and told Zelensky to stop the negotiations and instead to fight THIS war with Russia. With the United States at their side, Russia would be defeated, was Biden 's promise.
Fact is, Ukraine still wants peace NOT NATO but Zelensky still works for NATO not Ukrainians.
This up is down and down is up mentality allows people to see Zelensky as a great hero fighting for freedom and democracy for Ukrainians (when the diametrically opposed polar opposite is true of him)
And Trump is the betrayer of Ukraine. Oddly enough because he is finally bringing them the peace they have been crying out for.
As mentioned in the previous thread. Words are cheap, especially when they are lies and propaganda like the VAST majority of the information we get on Ukraine from the Military-Industrial-Political-Media Complex and NATO message gatekeepers which not coincidentally are the only ones benefitting from this war.
However, Indisputable facts are worth their weight in authentic gold. Here are some of them again.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110073/#110202
The Kremlin has previously characterized NATO’s eastward expansion as a direct security threat, arguing that Ukraine’s acceptance into the alliance could result in NATO troop movements on Russia’s borders.
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With regards to joj's statement that Zelensky has a 60% approval rating in Ukraine. After Trump restores the democratic elections that were taken from the Ukrainain people, that 60% should easily be enough for him to coast to another 2nd term in office. Right??
Who wants to bet me that never happens?
Ukraine Elections
Polls and Ratings
https://ukraine-elections.com.ua/en/socopros/opinion_poll_show/2175
It doesn't even make rational sense to a clear thinking person that understands what is REALLY happening in Ukraine to think that Zelensky could have anything close to the manufactured/fake 60% approval rating.
Again, authentic facts that I present here can't be comprehended by brains that are unable to process the truth.........when THEIR truth has been defined as massive lies. They intentionally seek out the same sources that keep repeating and reinforcing those same lies to reassure themselves. Rejecting things that contradict that......no matter how compelling the authentic, indisputable facts are.
Previous thread:
3 year Ukraine compilation
Started by metmike - Feb. 19, 2025, 9:14 p.m.
Let's provide more authentic facts about how and why Zelensky got elected and how/why it was easy for NATO to hijack this 0 experience (at politics or being a military leader) him and turn him into the NATO puppet that he has been, betraying his promise and people.
September 1, 2021
https://cepa.org/article/biden-zelensky-seize-the-moment/
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s meeting with President Joe Biden at the White House provides an opportunity to re-establish a genuine strategic partnership.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110073/#110202
The Kremlin has previously characterized NATO’s eastward expansion as a direct security threat, arguing that Ukraine’s acceptance into the alliance could result in NATO troop movements on Russia’s borders
Biden, now totally convinced that he would win the war against Russia (similar to how he was convinced he would beat Trump in 2024 and had to finally be forced to step down) went all out to turn it into the bloodiest of battles, refusing to negotiate with Putin, as Zelensky changed his campaigning promise objective from getting peace for Ukrainians to defeating Russia in war, no matter what sacrifices and losses the Ukrainians would have to suffer.
Zelensky would end up watching the casualties over 3 years, turning his once robust army into an army no longer to defend Ukraine against the massively superior Russian army. As it got uglier and uglier for Ukraine, Biden and Zelensky, instead of negotiating for peace........doubled and tripled down. Sending long range missiles into Russia to further provoke Russia in an attempt to ESCALATE the war instead of seek peace.
Biden even blew up the Russian natural gas pipeline, to try to hurt Russia. The biggest state sponsored eco terrorist act/crime in the history of planet earth! But the NATO countries all looked the other way and even blamed it on Russia for awhile. Absurdly asserting that Russia would blow up its own pipeline when all Russia needed to do was shut off the gas themselves if that was there objective. Think about this dastardly crime and the fact that the NATO countries involved, the ones that should be prosecuting it, have instead covered it up and dismissed the investigation. WOW! Russia? What are they supposed to do after their pipeline was blown up?
NORD STREAM ~ RUSSIA ~ ETC,
35 responses |
Started by 12345 - Feb. 8, 2023, 8:26 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/92953/
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So how did Joe Biden's promise to defeat Russia in the decision to intentionally fight the war with Russia turn out?
3 years ago, with the battlefield looking like this below, Biden/NATO and our MSM propaganda told us repeatedly that Ukraine would win this war. When there was a near 0% chance of that happening. Remember, this battle is being fought over letting NATO get Ukraine or not. Zelensky only needed to tell Russia NO NATO! but instead, he doubled and tripled down and insisted on fast tracking Ukraine into NATO and that Ukraine would win the war based on forcing Ukrainians to fight to the last drop of brave Ukrainian soldiers blood(200,000 of which decided to be SMART instead of dumb, brave and dead as they deserted the army and fight for NATO in the war). And Joe Biden/the US sending all the weapons they would need to win.
Even as Ukraine was decimated more and more, instead of peace, NATO and its puppet, Zelensky continue to insist on more war. When Trump entered the picture, trying to obtain peace, Zelensky, NATO and the diabolical US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex put on a full court press to vilify and stop Trump from accomplishing his campaign promise of getting peace in Ukraine.
What do you think, looking at the map above.
Can you Ukraine win the war?
Or should they negotiate for peace?
Considering their current position, losing by the widest of margins after being led by the worst military leaders in the history of the human race (sorry but its true).........
Should we listen to those same military leaders and those same war cheerleaders and benefactors, with their self serving interests (NATO-Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex) that just want more endless war and offer no solution or peace?
Or should we give Donald Trump's peace a chance?
I made my choice on election day in November 2024. Basing my vote on Trump's promise to get peace for Ukraine.
Ironically, the president of Ukraine betrayed the Ukrainian people with his promise for peace to get elected but the president of the United States is following thru, exactly as he promised before being elected. Yet the message gatekeepers are obsessed with stopping the peacemaker and elevating the vainglorious, uncompassionate, NATO serving puppet. They are all USING Ukrainians for their self enriching agenda and doing the exact opposite of supporting Ukraine.
"This looks to me like it was very likely scripted/planned in advance starting with VP’s part."
I'm almost positive that, like you said it WAS scripted, Larry.
The setting, with the actors and camera's were all set up staged and ready to present to the American people with the messages delivered from each of the actors demonstrating what Trump wanted them to be.
The most important actor, by far was the professional actor himself, President Zelensky.
Everything hinged on him following the guidelines that were discussed and agreed upon beforehand by all the parties.
However, I strongly disagree with you about why it was derailed. No way was that scripted.
Zelensky, like he betrayed his people, betrayed Trump and went COMPLETELY OFF SCRIPT.
No question about it. He decided that with the American people watching/ listening, he would go OVER Trump's head and litigate his cause/case to all the American people watching about Russia and Putin eventually being a serious threat to the United States, even across our ocean (that's only temporarily insulating us).
He did this, instead of agreeing to have peace with Putin/Russia via Trumps offer. Zelensky's message was that we should NEVER trust Russia and that we have to continue to fight against Russia NOT have peace with them. Go ahead and watch it/listen again. That's exactly what he did and crystal clearly that was NOT in the script.
This obviously enraged Trump and Vance, who were expecting him to follow the original script to seal the peace deal in front of the American people.
I'm sure all the Zelensky fans love that he did this to Trump.
So did that get us closer or farther away from peace for the Ukrainians?
That's what matters to me. I'm not participating in this hate game of wanting bad things to happen to Trump or people that I dislike..........especially since many millions must suffer the consequences.
I'll identify it, analyze it and condemn it but will put my great dislike of Trump aside when there are things a million times more important here to many millions of innocent people being completely used. The people of Ukraine should, instead be viewed as suffering humanity that desperately needs our help. Giving them war to spite Trump is not helping them, its destroying them even more.
Post of the week 3-2-25 mcfarm!
https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-us-withdrawal-nato-un-2038354
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This is such a mega, super, excellent, wonderful, spectacular idea!!!!
1. NATO is a diabolical organization. Read at least 100 of my 1,000 posts on the war in Ukraine that describe exactly why.
2. What a complete counterproductive waste of money for the United States.
3. There is no reason to have NATO for anybody but for the United States, it's insanity.
4. The Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex colludes with NATO to serve as bs, propaganda, message gatekeepers.
Graham said it’s now a major question whether the United States can continue to support Ukraine if Zelensky remains president.
“The question for me is, ‘Is he redeemable in the eyes of Americans?’ Most Americans witnessing what they saw today would not want Zelensky to be their business partner, including me, and I’ve been to Ukraine nine times since the war started,” he said.
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Ukraine DOES NOT want Zelensky to be their president. That couldn't be more clear from what he did to the Ukrainians. That's what matters. Restore Ukraine's democratic elections so they can oust the NATO Puppet, Ukrainian traitor.
https://www.businessinsider.com/what-would-happen-us-leaves-nato-trump-2025-1
It’s that exact same business responsible for making all that money….defense contractors that are the ones responsible for this war.
Their propaganda and lies fed to us as they control the messages. They control our bought and paid for politicians(from their lobby money) that vote to spend all this money on their war industries to pay back the millions in legal bribes and other benefits.
War is great business for politicians and media ratings.
When I worked for WEHT TV in Evansville IN as chief meteorologist from 1982 to 1993, there was hardly a month that went by that our news directors did not remind us of the importance of ratings.
”it doesn’t matter what you say, as long as you get more people to watch”
Many but not all of the professional media, do much more than just report the news, especially in this age, where they are rapidly being replaced by new technologies and sources.
They put their own political spin on it. Many of them got into that business because they are also political activists.
Sensationalizing sells! For instance. They have wrecked climate change reporting and turned it into anti science, alarmist, fairy tale story time for ratings and their personal agenda.
What did we think would happen when we combine people like that with our corrupt politicians and the all powerful military industrial complex?
Answer: The war in Ukraine!
Even now, as insane as it seems with every shred of authentic information telling us crystal clearly that the only altruistic path forward is one that seeks peace……the military-industrial-political-media complex and NATO are insisting that we continue to support MORE WAR.
News today is that the NATO countries in Europe, are actually going to INCREASE their weapons to Ukraine to show their support for Ukraine, so that the war in Ukraine can last longer in its fight against Russia.
More war, not peace!
3 years of this was still not enough??
Why would they ever want the war to end?
If this hasn’t exposed what their true, diabolical objectives are for people that can think outside of their propaganda fed brainwash, then nothing will.
++++++++
Zelensky/Biden/NATO decided to fight a war with Russia over NATO getting Ukraine and they lost. Even now, they won't agree with Russia's #1 demand(same as it has always been) NO NATO in Ukraine. NO WAY, NO HOW, NEVER!
Even now, the NATO Putin says that he will resign his job(months before he loses it anyway) to get Ukraine in NATO.
Never any PERSONAL sacrifices for his people that he sacrificed to fight the war in NATO but he's willing to give it all up FOR NATO!
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Straight from the NATO puppets mouth!!! His people pleaded for peace during his entire term and the ~1 year AFTER it(while he is no longer a legit president). Since Biden captured him into a NATO puppet in late 2021, all he has done is sacrifice his people for the NATO Gods.
Even now, strongly resisting a peace effort that doesn't include NATO(killing more of his people) while making it clear that his mission is, working for NATO to get Ukraine!!
NATO will do ANYTHING to get Ukraine because its part of their long term plan to destroy Russia. Putin is a wicked man but not dumb. NATO sacrificing all these lives to get Ukraine makes them just as complicit as Putin sacrificing all these lives to keep NATO from getting Ukraine.
Putin has never asked that NATO give up countries it has but just to stop expanding right up to the border with Russia. If they won't agree, he will force them. He won, they lost.
Now the loser wants NATO to get Ukraine anyway???
Get Zelensky the heck out of there ASAP because he's the worst military leader in the history of the human race and tied at the hip to NATO, NOT Ukraine.
In the 36 months of this horrible war(and the 6 months before it-that should have prevented it), please name 1 smart military decision........even 1 any type smart decision that Zelensky has made that helped save the lives of his soldiers/people.
I can summarize the bad ones in 3 words: ALL OF THEM!
Even now, with the disaster on Friday he is causing his people to lose more lives. And what does he do? Go on still about how he will resign if only NATO can get Ukraine, which is his real mission. And try to rally more support from NATO countries to continue the fight for NATO in Ukraine.
To force Russia to stop its attacks, we need greater collective strength from the world,” Zelenskyy says.
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Dear Mr. Zelensky, it's been obvious to some of us for a very long time. Russia has already won the war over whether NATO gets Ukraine or by an extraordinarily wide margin. He is just waiting for you to concede that BUT YOU WON'T. So he continues to punish your country UNTIL YOU CONCEDE AND AGREE THAT NATO WILL NOT SET UP ON RUSSIA'S BORDER.
Your "continue to fight forever" narratives, until the last drop of Ukrainian soldier blood and last weapons from NATO countries are the only thing stopping a peace settlement because whether anybody likes it or not, Putin won the war over NATO in Ukraine.
There is NOTHING to negotiate about related to that item.
When somebody loses this horrifically bad in a war, they don't continue to try to get everything they were fighting over in the first place. Doing this, just compels the other side to punish them more and more and more until they finally SURRENDER!
There is a 0.00000% chance for Ukraine to win or even make any sort of meaningful gains with the current dynamics. Only continued massive losses. 100.000% chance of that if they continue to fight Russia.
Only the worst military leader in history would ignore that and fight anyways and make agreeing to peace contingent on his side getting what they are fighting over.
This war should not be based on a popularity contest for Trump or for Putin or for ZelenskyNATO.
Or for whatever cause YOU/WE think it should be fought over. WE are not the ones being forced to fight this war. Neither are OUR families dying in it.
Its outrageous that our,pompous arses think we are entitled to play a role in decisions that force millions of innocent Ukrainian and Russians (they are human beings like us too) to fight and die for things WE think they should fight over.
Especially since most of it that we get is propaganda intended to manipulate us into supporting the war so that the richest country in the world will send the many billions of dollars in weapons needed to sustain the war. between the poor people forced to fight it.
Talk about a counterproductive way for us to wreck other peoples lives …..many millions of them by using our wealth.
This is so wrong, unethical and lacks empathy and compassion for fellow human beings that we consider to be of lesser value than ourselves And just,pawns to accomplish our self serving interests.
Shame on us for crapping on humanity the past 3 years. In,playing the biggest role to sustain the big war machine in Ukraine.
Shame on the military-industrial-political-media complex and NATO , that are like wolves in sheep’s clothing pretending to support Ukraine for their self enrichment and agenda, while sentencing the brave soldiers on both sides to their deaths. Millions of their families suffering the losses. Fathers and sons lost forever for somebody else’s cause.
This is not a soap opera with actors playing fake roles as our dishonest media reaps their profitable ratings bonanza from reporting on the turmoil with enthusiastic glee and great fortune as viewers and readers tune in to find out what the latest scuttlebutt is between Trump and Zelensky.
Completely ignoring how many new fatalities they caused by not reporting the truth. By not reporting what matters.
REAL people are greatly suffering and dying right now
on the battlefield because of this. A lot of them!!
Even while we enjoy being entertained by it all on the news Or our favorite source of information. The entertainment factor is what causes blockbuster ratings and sales. Trust me on this, people in that industry see it exactly as that and are thrilled to be part of that dysfunctional dynamic. It’s what they do.
Tragedies, wars, the climate crisis, homicides and all types of bad news is what generates profits in that business.
Peace and harmony don't sell nearly as well! Sensationalism does sell and generates profits!
Putting Psychology into Practice
Posted February 25, 2025
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I LOVE watching and listening to the news. Drives my wife nuts. But NEVER to hear news that lines up with my belief system. Always to gain as much insight from as many sources as possible to use my own brain in having INFORMED opinions that, as close as possible represent the reality/truth based on authentic facts.
People get in the habit of letting their favorite sources do all the work, then tell them what they want to hear. It's very easy to succumb to this highly rewarding and low time and low brain use investment. Many sources are counting on you doing this and they intentionally package the news in a way to make it more appealing, while at the same time sending their messages thru interpretations.
Remember this: For every 1 minute of news that you see or hear in many reports, the reporter and photographer may have spent an hour+ with interviews, video and information gathering. We don't get to see ALL of it. Just the tiny fraction that THEY decide to show. Sometimes including short sound bites that are one sided and lack context.
Before covering a POLITICAL story, most reporters have a really good idea of what they want it to say. This biased initial position from cognitive bias causes them to pick specific information and sound bites that match with their objective and reject those that don't. It's human nature. When we watch that report on tv after its completed, we see only a tiny fraction of what is really there.
Different sources can cover the exact same story/event and give completely contrasting reports. Fox news vs NPR or MSNBC for instance.
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https://processofwritingnews.wordpress.com/chapter-two-turning-information-into-news/
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https://www.statista.com/chart/21328/party-affiliation-by-news-source/
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At MarketForum, mcfarm watches Fox News. joj reads the New York Times. Even if I hadn't known them for what must be a decade+ at Marketforum, their opinions often tell us clearly what party they belong to.
Sorry to use you guys as examples. As you know, I ENCOURAGE diversity of opinions here and consider this a good thing. I've told joj that we need him and appreciate him because he helped us to balance opinions back when far right posters were the majority. I have no doubt they were scared off to safer, echo chamber pastures by constant fact checking by the moderator.
MarketForum is an ANTI echo chamber.
I listen to and read all sources above and many dozens more, except not much MSNBC. The top 4 for me are:
1. NPR on the car radio, when I'm the only one in the car.
2. Alternate between CNN and Fox in the evenings.
3. Watch ABC Nightly News most weekdays.
4. I get ALL the articles from Newsweek delivered in pop up fashion on my computer(which is probably why I use them more than any other source here.
This is what the article at the top means by: diversifying information sources.
However, what Rs will listen to NPR or Ds go to Fox on a regular basis to diversify?
It ain't happenin! People intentionally WANT news interpreted and reported to them by sources that share their political affiliations. They want their belief system to be REINFORCED NOT CHALLENGED!
And so the division between parties and people only grows from positive reinforcement.
| Date Posted & Author | |
|---|---|
  |
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https://www.newsweek.com/1600-newsletter-zelensky-screwed-2037259
A talented statesman would have shown up to the White House armed with a smile and words of flattery and gratitude. Instead, Zelensky decided to go into the meeting—in front of the cameras—by being combative toward his hosts, including a VP who has said in no uncertain terms that he "doesn't care" what happens to Ukraine. I have covered a million of these Oval "sprays," as they're called, and nobody does this. You sit there, grinning, say a bunch of flattering things about your host, shake hands, and the press leaves so you can talk freely.
For Zelensky to litigate the case for the war continuing, suggest ominously that the U.S. would be threatened by Russia "in the future," and interrogate and interrupt the president and vice president in front of the media, in their own house (!), in a language he is still not particularly fluent in—it showed some of the worst political instincts I have ever seen. It was a catastrophic misreading of Trump and Trumpism from a world leader many of us have admired for his bravery over the last three years, and it makes me wonder if Zelensky is even capable of working with the U.S. to wind down this war.
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Most important in all this:
1. Ukrainians, the ones that count WANT THIS GUY OUT. Restore their democracy and elections so that they can do that.
2. The longer Zelensky stays in office and acts this way, the more Ukrainians and Russians that don't want to fight this war but are being forced to by their leaders, die. The more land that Ukraine loses.
Of course NATO/Europe has come to Zelensky's defense because they don't give a darn about #1 or #2. All they care about is NATO getting Ukraine and destroying NOT getting along with Russia. They've had 3+ years to agree with Putin's demand that NATO NOT continue to expand right up to the Russian border in Ukraine. After watching NATO the last 3 years and seeing how they act and their refusal to give up Ukraine, I understand Putin's concerns. He's an evil guy for sure but he's not dumb and isn't going to stand by and let NATO destroy Russia.
If NATO would use Ukrainian soldiers to fight their war to get Ukraine like this and refuse to negotiate anything else, they are capable of anything. The saddest thing is that Joe Biden is 100% responsible for this. In late 2021, the negotiations were between Biden and Putin and Biden told him to take a hike. Go ahead and invade Ukraine. NATO was getting Ukraine and then he stopped the negotiating process and had this delusional plan that made the Ukrainians fight NATO's war with US weapons. Actually thinking that he would defeat Russia and convincing Zelensky to go all in, so they had his soldiers to do all the fighting for NATO.
+++++++++++++++++
Unwilling conscripts and disillusioned veterans are fleeing the frontline
https://theweek.com/defence/ukraines-disappearing-army
Ukrainian officials recognise that desertions are "understandable", because "tired troops" have "served for months without a proper break", said The Guardian. Olha Reshetylova, Ukraine’s commissioner for protecting service members' rights, said it's only "natural in a situation where you’ve had three years of major war" for soldiers to desert. "People are exhausted," she said. "Their children are growing up without them" and "relationships get broken".
But there is no avoiding the gravity of the problem. Just as Russia's ranks are "swelling" with highly paid contractors and "fresh North Korean reinforcements", Ukraine's forces are "thinning fast", said Morenets, and "desertions are adding to crippling manpower shortages".
Meanwhile, one Ukrainian commander predicted the trend would only get worse as conscription squeezes Ukrainian society and "there are more and more people who are forced to go", said France 24. Is there any way to stem the flood of deserters? "We just have to end the war," he said.
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Zelensky, NATO, the MSM and the Trump haters continue to completely cover this unimaginable human suffering up because these dishonest, morally bankrupt sources (or else in complete ignorance) actually want the war and their suffering to continue, including THEIR OWN LEADER, Zelensky. So they continue with the increasingly absurd propaganda to do it.
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https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-2-2025
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Folks should stop saying they stand for Ukraine................then support having them decimated even more and oppose the peace they are pleading for.
Note: The dishonest MSM told us that news of possible peace was celebrated by Russians and censored the Ukrainians celebrating the same thing. They want us to think that Ukrainians would rather keep fighting and dying than have peace. The celebrating by Russians and Ukrainians to the news of potential peace wasn't based on victory or loss(of the war that Ukrainians are fighting for NATO NOT Ukraine. They WANT THE WAR TO END. That's what the celebrations were for. But Zelensky blocked peace with NATO STILL controlling him today.
Do you think that news that Zelensky blocked the peace agreement and instead insists on more war for the exhausted, rapidly diminished troops NOT fighting for him, made him more or less popular in Ukraine?
Chance of Zelensky being elected to another term when democracy is restored to Ukraine?
Less than 5% and thats being extremely generous. Its probably less than 1%!!!
Why are we letting somebody no longer the legit president and extremely unpopular send his people on suicide missions for NATO???
If you sincerely stand with Ukrainians and know this, then you must be strongly for ousting Zelensky ASAP and for peace ASAP. It's exactly what Ukrainians want and deserve. Haven't we done enough FAKE supporting of Ukraine based on our ignorance, based on the propaganda from our diabolical information gatekeepers stealing our intelligence and misdirecting our empathy to the exact wrong entities the past 3 years already?
Let's REALLY support what they want and deserve. It's never to late to acknowledge mistakes and use it to start doing the right thing!
CNN guest on Anderson cooper tells us just now that it’s trumps actions that will cost hundreds of thousand of Ukrainian lives in this war.
that all of Russia is enthusiastically celebrating over what happened on Friday.
according to CNN previously, trumps original deal caused Russians to celebrate and would cause Ukrainians to die. Now, breaking the deal is causing Russians to celebrate and even more Ukrainians to die.
its obvious what they are doing. Instead of reporting honestly, about Trump being the only one on our side trying with a serious effort to bring peace and save lives, whatever happens is trumps fault and is the cause of more Ukrainian deaths and Russians celebrating …even complete opposite scenarios always mean that Trump caused something bad.
Even while their message is to reject everything that Trump is doing and instead give our complete weapons support to Zelensky and cause Ukrainians to be forced to fight zelenskys NATO war so that the war can continue and russia can’t win.
no wonder we have such a reliable information crisis.!!
Trump should be getting a nomination for the Nobel peace prize but the media that hates him are instead vilifying him and doing everything to promote war continuation narratives.
"I do not need to describe the grave nature of the threats that we face, or the devastating consequences that we will have to endure if those threats would come to pass," von der Leyen told reporters.
Efforts to rearm will focus on air defense missiles, artillery ammunition and the systems to fire them, as well as drones and counter-drone warfare and other areas of the military, von der Leyen said.
NATO states have less than 5 percent of the necessary air defense capabilities to protect central and Eastern Europe from large-scale attack, the Financial Times reported in May 2024.
The new plan will mean member states can "massively step up their support to Ukraine," von der Leyen remarked on Tuesday, which she translated to "immediate military equipment for Ukraine."
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War, War, War, War! NOT peace. More complete fairy tale/imaginary threats to Europe so they can keep their false narratives going which NATO uses to convince people that we desperately need them to protect against the Russia boogy man. The military-industrial complex bribes these corrupt, bought and paid for politicians.
Russia is actually focused on keeping NATO out of Ukraine and away from its border. No wonder they feel that way. These people DO NOT want to negotiate. They WANT Ukraine and to destroy Russia.
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On the maps below, who is expanding and the threat. Is it Russia OR IS IT NATO???
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110000/#110028
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110000/#110029
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO
Two maps show NATO’s growth — and Russia’s isolation — since 1990
Map of 1990, after NATO promised that they would not expand:
Map of 2022, after 3 decades of the broken promise......and NATO's main goal to EXPAND IN EVERY COUNTRY SURROUNDING RUSSIA.
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NATO is bald face lying on a galactic scale. THEY are the threat to Russia NOT the other way around. Again, we use AUTHENTIC FACTS here NOT fork tongue words selling war monger snake oil. We should withdraw from NATO immediately. NATO should be banished to make the world a much better place and save NATO country tax payers TRILLIONS of dollars. Those trillions, being pilfered/spend by corrupt, greedy, bought and paid for NATO country politicians being enriched is the driving force.
Take OUR world back. Get rid of NATO!
Believe it or not, we can actually live in peace with Russia but we must stop trying to destroy them. This is NOT a pro Putin position. It's a pro humanity and pro morality position. A pro honesty and pro common sense position. A pro economic and pro peace position.
Follow the (censored), indisputable facts, NOT the propaganda and false narrative verbiage!
Drain the political poisoning from your brain and let the truth replace it!
The latest is that Zelensky has changed his tune and wants to move forward with peace!
Yippee! Now the Ukrainians AND Russians will both, finally have reason to celebrate. The end of this horrible war.
Yep. I saw this:
“Zelensky is trying to save his country and his people. Only a true man and a leader would grovel to someone who is beneath him and the world to do this. The man is doing what he's gotta do and I commend him for it.”
—————————
and this article
Zelensky prepared to go down Trump's road
Volodymyr Zelensky’s statement is a response to the arm-twisting by Donald Trump and is clearly an attempt to try to get this relationship back on track after the utter disaster of the last four days - culminating in the suspension of US military assistance to Ukraine.
That move by the US is seeing arms shipments being held in Poland and will over time have a significant impact on Ukraine’s ability to defend itself.
The key question now is whether Zelensky’s statement will be enough. What Trump wants him to do is two things; first sign the minerals deal, then sign up to a quick ceasefire without a US security guarantee.
Zelensky seems to be suggesting he’s prepared to go down that road – calling the deal a “step” towards a security guarantee, which he is still looking for.
But there is also an emotive element to all this. We saw Zelensky humiliated by the administration on Friday - where he was called ungrateful and disrespectful - and we’ve seen the disparaging comments amplified since then.
There is a view among critics in Washington that the administration wants to see Zelensky grovel in order to restore a relationship with the White House and to get the military assistance back.
We’ll get a clearer sense tonight whether Zelensky’s done enough when Trump makes his joint address to Congress.
Thanks, Larry!
Your view of Zelensky is the diametrically polar opposite of mine and we will never agree on him but all I care about is the human beings being slaughtered because of him finally getting peace, which hopefully we can celebrate together.
There is no bringing back any of the dead but we can restore democratic elections to Ukraine and let THEM vote on Zelensky. That's what matters. We live in the US and have our right to vote in OUR country. Let Ukrainians decide who to run theirs after we help restore peace that Biden/Zelensky/NATO/Putin stole from them.
Meddling in Ukraine and 100 other countries with military, political(installing US puppets) and other influence to impose our will on their people has been most wrong with our foreign policies the past 7+ decades.
Politicians love wars and the U.S. is vulnerable
12 responses |
Started by metmike - Oct. 29, 2023, 10:36 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/100127/
Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex
Started by metmike - Jan. 31, 2024, 2:33 p.m.
Why are the MSN and politicians continuing to go on about NATO getting Ukraine?
Just accept that Ukraine, still one of the most corrupt counties in the world(disqualified by NATO standards) lost the war over NATO getting Ukraine by an extremely wide margin.
Why this obsession with NATO expanding into Ukraine??
Zelensky has made it crystal clear that this has been the most important element of the war for him but seriously, why is NATO so obsessed with expanding even more into Ukraine?
Just drop it, agree to the peace terms(that include NO NATO in Ukraine) and be happy with the other 32 countries in NATO!!
Before the diplomatic spat, a February 2025 survey showed that 57% of Ukrainians trusted Zelensky, while 37% did not, resulting in a trust-distrust balance of +20%.
Between Feb. 14 and March 4, trust in Zelensky increased to 68%, with the share of those who do not trust him dropping to 29%, improving his net approval rating to +38%.
https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-approval-rating-jumps-after-trump-clash-poll-shows/
Thanks, Larry!
No doubt that you actually believe that since you posted it in huge letters!
In the past 3 years, I could find, literally 10s of thousands of absurd propaganda articles on the Ukraine war that completely defied critical thinking........but when people WANT TO BELIEVE something, its easy to steal their intelligence.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110205/#110209
Is that what I want to believe?
I only want peace in Ukraine for the Ukrainian people and the truth based on critical thinking NOT what the diabolical gatekeepers of messaging want me to think with their convincing reading bs which has completely captured the majority of brains.
When democracy is restored to Ukraine, Zelensky will NOT be the president after the people are allowed to vote again.
I thought that Trump would never be the president again after the Insurrection, so I've been wrong before.
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I will have to say, for the first time in over 3 years that Zelensky is finally making a smart decision (after nothing but really bad ones) and FINALLY doing something that will bring Ukrainians what they have always wanted...........PEACE!
And it's because he's become Trump's puppet! After being NATO/Biden's puppet, starting in September 2021.
You know that's true! Look how easy it was for Trump to control him.
I will agree that Ukrainians likely do think more positively about Zelensky but for the complete opposite reason the propaganda states. It's NOT because he's fighting Trump, it's because he's getting on board with Trump's peace(as Trump's puppet) which is crystal clearly, without a shred of doubt what they've wanted most and why they elected Zelensky in 2019!
Many people in our country are unable to accept this but the indisputable, authentic facts are what they are.
It's interesting how the MSM/NATO countries have wanted to put all their propaganda eggs in the Zelensky/Trump confrontation basket and were 100% backing Zelensky in their desperate hopes that they can stop Trump from getting peace.
99%+ of the articles I read followed this bs line of thinking. Making Zelensky out to be a great hero again and Trump the villain(because, absurdly he's doing his best to stop their self enriching war in favor of peace for the Ukrainian people).
Couldn't be more crystal clear.
Now look what has happened:
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If we wanted to believe the interpretation of your propaganda article, Larry this should mean that Zelensky's popularity goes back down because their reasoning is that the clash with Trump( who is fighting for peace) caused the bump up in his ratings.
Any bump up he got or gets will be for the 100% diametrically opposed, complete opposite reason they state. It's because he is GOING ALONG WITH TRUMPS PEACE PLAN which is what Ukrainians want the most.
It is, however, clear now that most Ukrainians feel a counteroffensive to retake territory is a fever dream, when the basic task of fending off Russian assaults is beset by ammunition and manpower shortages.
+++++++++++++++
Give me a break MSM! This was NATO's objective and the US Military-Industrial-Political-Media complexes 3 year dream with defeating Russia, having a near 0% chance of coming true(with the worst military leaders in the history of the human race). Ukraine has always wanted peace. The false narrative of "supporting Ukraine" was giving them the complete opposite of what they've been pleading for............since before this war!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acb15JsCGSk
Funny how the vast majority of people agree with this humanity concept but the diabolical propaganda from powerful, gatekeeping messengers have our heads screwed on backwards with regards to the Ukraine war.
We cheer for endless war. We cheer for killing Russians. We cheer for UKRAINIANS continuing to fight and die but bash Trump for seeking peace.
This is sick.
If Trump can pull this peace off, when others could not and nobody was even trying, then he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.
It's unlikely he'll get it because it comes from NATO-centric countries.
Nobel Peace Prize
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Peace_Prize
https://www.investopedia.com/news/where-does-nobel-prize-money-come/
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This is the award that Zelensky deserves:
Mike said: “Thanks, Larry!
No doubt that you actually believe that since you posted it in huge letters!”
——————-
Hey Mike,
It was already in huge letters at the top of the article. So, when I copied and pasted it, it retained the gigantic letters.
I take it with as gigantic a grain as the size of the letters as I’m not familiar with the source or its polling. I’m open minded about its accuracy as I have no way to prove whether it’s reflecting reality, it’s pure propaganda, or somewhere in between. I’m suspicious it may lean more toward propaganda based your screeds but the jury is out for a final verdict I’d say.
This comes from a long lived TDS source:
https://www.allsides.com/blog/slate-retains-left-rating
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Maybe Trump Wants to Help Ukraine After All
By Fred Kaplan
Maybe President Trump isn’t clamoring to push Ukraine under the bus after all.
Tuesday’s meeting in Jeddah, between his top officials and their Ukrainian counterparts, ended with the Americans handing Kyiv a clear advantage—militarily and diplomatically—and putting Moscow in a tight, awkward spot.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/where-missing-100-billion-us-aid-ukraine
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With all that free taxpayer money gushing out in all these directions, its the exact recipe for graft and corrupt crony capitalists and others(especially the Military-Industrial- Political-Media complex) to enrich themselves.
of course much of that money has made its circular home by now MM. They vote for this crap, it gets appropriated, gets delivered, and kicked back ready to do over and over. Right back into the pockets of our corrupt politicians. Ever seen how fast a poor politician suddenly is worth millions in DC? Real GD FAST.
America has obtained a scary mentality, mcfarm!
Thanks to our politicians and media that feed the hatred, this Summer is likely to be one of widespread protesting that turns into rioting with the theme of RESISTING!! I really hope to be wrong but everything is pointing strongly in that direction.
+++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++
Greatest comeback in history!!!
As much as I hate what Musk as the head is having done and the way it’s been done, I don’t condone this violence against Teslas at dealers.
Larry,
Well said, once again!
++++++++
Our ethical standards are sinking lower and lower. Our political leaders and media are exploiting every possible situation to generate hate for people that we disagree with or are different from us.
Different political party. Different nationalities. Cheering for a continuation of wars, and killing Russians or killing Palestinians or hating Jews/Muslims because they are Jews/Muslims. Or twist killing Ukrainians into supporting them.
Hating Trump, Musk or Biden.
I will readily admit to attacking them viciously but always with authentic facts and NEVER for political reasons or for having different views than me. Only using objective analysis, while adhering to the scientific method and fact checking myself before posting anything here. And I am wrong sometimes and want to know that ASAP in order to adjust from wrong to right.
Critical thinking has been conditioned out of many people. Going to their favorite source that spins the news so it lines up with their ideology...........so they don't have to spend time to fact check or use their brains to question things that don't make sense but are exactly what they want to believe.
Read the first post in this thread below. It was written shortly after the horrific Oct 7, 2023 attack on Israel.
Hate(and love)
22 responses |
Started by metmike - Oct. 17, 2023, 4:15 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99752/
https://www.newsweek.com/four-takeaways-trump-zelensky-call-russia-ukraine-war-update-2047636
+++++++++++++++++
Trump wants to take over Ukraine's nuclear power plants. That seems crazy.
This is a specific example of exactly what's wrong with our snake oil selling media. Misleading us to think that its Russia that is not doing well in the war.
+++++++++++
Once again, the authentic facts show the truth. Ukraine is being completely run over in a 1 sided result with only minimal resistance from Ukraine. We wonder why Putin is slow to agree to a cease fire? His advantages right now are astronomical and continue to increase. Him quitting, in the middle of massive gains makes no sense.
If you were a short term trader that planned to exit an extremely profitable position, would you exit if you were convinced the price was going to continue to provide windfall profits for at least another week?
"Ukraines gains" are no longer represented on this map any more. BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY! The MSM article above would have you believe that its Russia's army that is quitting. Look at the actual battlefield below and ask yourself if that is an honest way to represent it?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
Our side was led by the worst military leaders in human history(Biden/NATO/Zelensky). The ones that turned most of Ukraine's army into casualties(that I insisted would happen 3:years ago because of attrition and Russia's MUCH bigger army.
Until Trump showed up, these were the same ones that wanted to keep fighting. No negotiating. Russia cannot win!To keep sending the brave Ukrainian soldiers on suicide missions to the last drop of their blood, which in a relative sense has happened.
THEY are the ones that created the current conditions, ACCURATELY depicted on the map above. How could it be any worse?
Realistically, what do we think that President Trump can do with this worsening disaster that he took over from Biden/NATO and their puppet, other than what he is currently doing?
Not what we WISH for or WANT to happen and definitely not based on the non stop, blatant MSM propaganda/lies . What is realistic here?
Does it make any sense at all for somebody to win/lose a war by this wide of a margin and the losers to get much of what they want?
Prediction:
Trump will leave NATO. Why? Because he doesn't believe in (understand) democracy.
And.... He's Putin's puppet. As Putin says.... "There is no difference between Washington and the Kremlin on Ukraine."
The narrator seems to be suggesting that might makes right. ...sad
Thanks, joj!
The MSM propaganda‘s false, completely backwards narratives have defined up as down and down as up.
The one person working hardest to give Ukraine what it has been,pleading for, peace with Russia and stopping Russian‘s current thrashing and confiscating more and more land and the obliteration of Ukraines army…..is somehow RESPONSIBLE for what Russia did to Ukraine the past 3+ years. And is on Putins side.
But the ones that intentionally took Putin on to fight a war with him to get Ukraine into NATO., the past 3 years……..while Trump was not even in office and had no say in it…….the ones that ignored Ukraines pleas for peace and instead, forced them to go on suicide missions to fight NATOs war. The worst military leaders in the history of the human race that got Ukraines army decimated and lost massive tracks of land to Russia BEFORE Trump was in office. The ones that gave this victory to Russia because they failed to negotiate with Putin. The same ones that suspended democratic elections to keep the real (unpopular) puppet in office so they could continue the 1 sided Russian obliteration of Ukraine …….thats the side where the NATO puppet who completely betrayed his people as the worst military leader in history iand stole their democracy is supposedly a great hero FIGHTING a winnable battle with Russia, long, long after the war was already lost….and the most insane part of all with the false narrative is the NATO cult claim that we should want this to continue to Ukraine as if this ANTI democratic position that defies what Ukrainians wants is the real fight for democracy..
And people like me are just not smart enough to recognize a fight for democracy when we see it.
Let me ask these questions to the brilliant Ukrainian democracy experts:
Is Ukraine better or worse off than it was 3 years ago?
By how much?
How much land was lost?
Who has provided the leadership of the so called good guys during that time?
Why did they refuse to negotiate with Putin the entire time.
When was the last time that Ukraine had a democratic election under this leadership?
How much money did this cost the United States? Europeans?
Why did this cause corruption that was already much worse than most countries to get even worse?
What is the total number of casualties from this war?
WHO WON THE WAR??
The answers to all those questions were made well before Trump became president and had any influence.
Why is this Donald Trumps fault?
Will continuing the war make things better or worse for Ukraine?
Who wants to continue the war and who wants to end the war?
Why does Trump stopping Putin from doing what he’s doing make him a Putin puppet?
Why is NATO so obsessed with getting Ukraine that it would do this to the people,of Ukraine instead of agreeing to stay out of Ukraine and having peace with Russia?
What does this tell us about the true motives of NATO?
Why are we flushing hundreds of billions of dollars down the toilet every year(1 trillion last year), wasting it counter productively on NATO to enrich the military-industrial-political-media complex and diabolical NATO agenda?
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110205/#110571
Why do we let them control us with their manufactured, twisted realities that tell is that up is down, down is up propaganda?
Those are all questions that I’ve been answering repeatedly here with over 1,000 posts on this topic and none of them indicate that President Trump is secretly trying to help Russia to do more of the things that he’s been doing the past 3 years when Trump had no influence……just the opposite.
3 year Ukraine compilation
Started by metmike - Feb. 19, 2025, 9:14 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110073/
Go figure. That’s how twisted the propaganda is. and the people whose brains have been captured by it, are unable to provide, honest, authentic answers to most of those questions.
Using this absurd, paranoid philosophy, metmike must be a secret Russian operative working for Putin.
Joj,
I sure hope you’re right that Trump does leave NATO.
Name 1 authentic positive that justifies the trillions of dollars flushed down the toilet on NATO?
Please exclude all the made up Russian boogeyman propaganda That the military-industrial-political-media complex, message gatekeepers use to steal our intelligence and impose their self enriching agenda and schemes/wars!!
Please gives positives that are independent of parroting what your sources tell you to think.
Ones that use legit critical thinking that compare the trillions spend to real world benefits(not theoretical protection from a fake Russian threat).
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-spending-by-country
+
+++++++++++++++++++
Your tax dollars are being squandered in the rush to build and sell ever more weaponry for ongoing wars.
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/military-industrial-complex-ukraine-gaza/
Mind you, the American arms industry already dominates the international market in a staggering fashion, controlling 45 percent of all such sales globally, a gap only likely to grow more extreme in the rush to further arm allies in Europe and the Middle East in the context of the ongoing wars in those regions.
In his nationally televised address about the Israel-Hamas and Russia-Ukraine wars, President Biden described the American arms industry in remarkably glowing terms, noting that, “just as in World War II, today patriotic American workers are building the arsenal of democracy and serving the cause of freedom.” From a political and messaging perspective, the president cleverly focused on the workers involved in producing such weaponry rather than the giant corporations that profit from arming Israel, Ukraine, and other nations at war. But profit they do and, even more strikingly, much of the revenues that flow to those firms is pocketed as staggering executive salaries and stock buybacks that only boost shareholder earnings further.
President Biden also used that speech as an opportunity to tout the benefits of military aid and weapons sales to the US economy:
++++++++++++
We are seeing the huge push back from NATO and this source against Trump for trying to stop this profit/ratings bonanza war in Ukraine for the entire Military-Industrial-Political-Media.
People go to their favorite sources to hear the news spun the way they want to hear/read it and let those sources steal their intelligence for the self serving interest of the media, politicians and defense industry.
Well we agree on one thing Mike.
What's up is down and what's down is up.
Blaming Ukraine for being invaded and that Putin was justified in his war on a free and sovereign nation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVt-WXTLIZM
++++++++++++++++++
December 12, 2017
https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/documents-show-gorbachev-was-assured-us-wouldnt-ex
U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University
++++++++++++++++++++++
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110205/#110278
++++++++++++++++++++++++
NATO's propaganda machine(military-industrial-political-media complex) keeps manufacturing a Russia boogyman threat. That RUSSIA is a major threat to invade Europe. Over and over they repeat this nonsense.
1 look at the NATO expansion map below tells us that its NATO expanding NOT Russia. The diametrically opposed polar opposite of the fake threat that we are told about to justify this.
Should Russia be concerned?
Is the sun hot?
Is water wet?
Does NATO/the military-industrial-policital-media complex steal our intelligence with their manufactured, fake realities to accomplish their agenda and enrich themselves?
https://cvafoundation.org/how-should-united-states-view-alliances-us-allies/
Look how far east Ukraine is on this map, along the Russia border. Putin drew the red line and insisted that he would never let NATO expand into Ukraine. In late 2021, as NATO continued to insist they were expanding in Ukraine, Putin said he would stop them with an invasion and insisted on negotiations to get an assurance this would not happen.
Joe Biden told Putin to take a hike and STOPPED the negotiations. Instead telling his puppet, Zelensky that with the US providing all the weapons and Zelensky sacrificing his army for the NATO cause, together they would defeat Russia in a war fought for NATO membership.
WHO WON THE WAR? WHO LOST THE WAR? How is this not crystal clear by every possible standard and definition?
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110205/#110559
Who should have negotiated with Russia in 2021 instead of deciding to fight a war for NATO?
Where was Donald Trump when these key decisions were being made?
"What's up is down and what's down is up."
Thanks, joj!
You use words and repeat narratives from the snake oil selling sources that I've specifically identified, along with the specific proof of why they do it . I show facts, data, maps and evidence. Lots of them. Hundreds of pages of them.
You respond with more words, repeating the same things.
1. Putin is evil. Putin is evil. Putin is evil.
2. Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia invaded Ukraine.
3. Trump is Putin's puppet. Trump is Putin's Puppet. Trump is Putin's puppet.
4. Russia is a threat to Europe. Russia is a threat to Europe.
Joj,
I agree strongly with you on #1 and #2.
However, you keep leaving out the REASON for #2 and the facts here show it.
#3 and #4 are just complete nonsense and the facts show that too.
My motivation here is a bit different than what you're used to.
I am on YOUR side. I am your friend, first and foremost.
I see you as a wonderful, very bright and sincere person that wants to make the world a better place. I know this is true from the hundreds of conversations with you on MarketForum!
The thing that bothers me most are these dishonest, often diabolical sources and information gatekeepers taking advantage of my friends. Stealing their intelligence for their self enriching schemes and political agenda.
This is, as is the case for most issues, a complex one. There’s always more for everyone to learn. I do appreciate the robust debating (but still civil!) in this thread between two very smart and knowledgeable posters.
My feeling is that each is bringing up some excellent points from a different perspective. There likely is no one correct answer as we’re probably dealing with a many shades of gray situation as opposed to a black and white situation. I don’t have anything else to add at this time but will keep reading this thread. I’ll chime in again if/when I feel it is appropriate although I earlier ITT posted some of my thoughts.
Thanks, Larry!
Why stop there with the fairy tale?
* Within 8 years, Russia will take over Europe
*Within 12 years, Russia will take over the Northern Hemisphere with China as its ally
*Within 20 years, Russia will expand to space and conquer El Musk's colonized Mars, with Russia's leader soon being the dictator of our solar system.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110166/#110569
*By the year 2100, Russia will be the master of the entire Milky Way Galaxy, conquering aliens in distant worlds............and this will all happen if we let them win in Ukraine(even though Russia won the war by lopsided fashion a very long time ago).
So we must continue to PRETEND that Russia really didn't win the war and make up nonsense to justify a continuation of Ukraine being decimated by Russia. ...........because the military-industrial-political-complex in collusion with diabolical NATO wants to maximize the length of time that THEY can benefit from this current war dynamic which is CRUSHING the almost completely wiped out Ukrainian army and taking more land every day.
OK, enough of the silly stuff.
This post is serious as a heart attack. Please pay attention. I'm gifting you with the inside truth about what motivates the Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex. It's a self enriching business for them and they don't give a dang about how many human casualties are needed to pay the price of them doing their for profit, for ratings, for lobby bribes business.
The graph below shows projections for their PROFITABLE business out for ANOTHER 3 YEARS!!!! As I've been insisting, they want (need) this war to continue for as long as possible. That's why they are resisting Trump ending the war with so much gusto. They don't give a crap about Ukraine or Ukrainians.
Wars are great for their business's!
https://www.csis.org/analysis/ukraine-now-doomed
The good news is that a steady stream of American equipment will continue to flow to Ukraine from previously announced commitments—if Trump allows it. More will come from the Europeans, who have committed around $40 billion of military aid that has not yet been delivered. This will buy time for a negotiated settlement. However, though this may be enough to hold ground, it is not enough to repel Russia and gain the victory that Ukraine desires.
+++++++++++++
This article was published in March, 2025. They are still manufacturing a fairy tale of Ukraine currently being able "to hold ground" if they get enough weapons, but they just need MORE WEAPONS to "gain the victory that Ukraine desires". There is a 0.000% chance of that.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110205/#110559
They are selling the war to sell the weapons! 100%! They're just using the same lying sack of s--- language to justify and sell the most weapons that they can. That is the main objective of the military-industrial-political-media complex. Keep the war going as long as possible because it maximizes the dynamic which enriches these morally bankrupt gatekeepers.
They have been lying to you about almost everything related to this war for over 3 years. This is why there haven't been any negotiations by our side.......until Trump showed up. THEY WANTED this war and they still WANT the war to continue as long as possible. They're "banking" on it into at least 2028.
What have American taxpayers received in return for the 100s of billions we paid, much to the defense industry to manufacture these weapons and ship them to Ukraine or to Gaza or to other places?
Americans got DEAD PEOPLE in foreign lands in return for it. They are using OUR tax dollars to get rich by killing people.
It's a pathological, grotesquely deranged dynamic THAT WE ARE FUNDING to obliterate REAL human beings(and destroy their families) with weapons, so that the military-industrial-political-media complex can enrich themselves.
At least consider the value of millions of precious human lives that we are taking ignorantly and cold hardheartedly by participating in this kill-fest by design.
+++++++++++
Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex
Started by metmike - Jan. 31, 2024, 2:33 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/102009/
War crimes committed by US show its evil foreign policy
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202305/1291437.shtml
Between the end of World War II and 2001, there were 248 armed conflicts in 153 regions across the world, among which 201 were initiated by the US. This means that the US has started the overwhelming majority of conflicts in the modern, postwar global security status quo. That is quite remarkable and shows just how nefarious Washington's influence is around the world.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/98691/#99012
The exact death toll of U.S. imperialism is both staggering and impossible to know. What we do know is that since World War 2, U.S. imperialism has killed at least 36 million people globally in Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, the Congo, Chile, El Salvador, Guatemala, Colombia, Haiti, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Chad, Libya, East Timor, Grenada, Honduras, Iran, Pakistan, Panama, the Philippines, Sudan, Greece, Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Somalia, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Palestine (see Appendix).
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Hopefully, there will be continued progress.
TDS types will likely be disappointed and vocal in future agreements on what Russia gets and continue to blame it, absurdly on Trump being Putin's puppet. All I can do is remind you of the realty on the ground here in March 2025 and compare it to whatcould have been 3+ years ago. Since we can't go back in a time machine when to when Biden refused the best deal Ukraine could have locked in, please accept the best deal that Trump can get in 2025.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-seized-upper-hand-ukraine-190023476.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
"Even though Russian President [Vladimir] Putin will be unable to achieve the total victory he envisioned when initiating the large-scale invasion in February 2022, Russia retains momentum as a grinding war of attrition plays to Russia’s military advantages," the report states. "This grinding war of attrition will lead to a gradual but steady erosion of Kyiv’s position on the battlefield, regardless of any U.S. or allied attempts to impose new and greater costs on Moscow."
++++++++++++++++
Finally, messaging of sanity coming from our side!!
It's been a 1 sided route for numerous months. These war maps stopped using a color to represent Ukraine's gains a while ago because there aren't any. It's nothing but a continuation of Russia's grinding gains without substantial resistance.
If you know anything about war strategy, then you know that's its PAST TIME to surrender in order to minimize what will be nothing but increasing losses. When you lose a war badly by every reasonable standard, your main objective is to minimize additional losses.
The Military-Industrial-Political-Media complex, colluding with NATO does not have a position based on these standards which define consequences TO HUMANITY.
War is a business for them.
1. War means weapons manufacturing and sales for them. ...whether their side is winning or getting wiped out. A billion in profits is a billion in profits, regardless of the human casualties.
2. Supporting the war means fulfilling the obligations that our bought and paid for (with lobby money and other bribes) politicians abide by.
3. The ratings driven, for profit media loves the robust ratings/sales and sensationalism of wars. Their political activist, extremely biased reporting manufactures the fake realities and impose those on readers/viewers as propaganda.
Almost none of them have been showing this map below(intentionally) with the authentic interpretation of what it has meant the past 3 years.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
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As I predicted last Summer, when Ukraine, stupidly invaded Russia (1 of dozens of examples of the worst military leaders in the history of humanity). It was only going to get more brave Ukrainian soldiers killed and be 100% counterproductive using critical thinking. But it was intended to be used as propaganda and to sell more weapons at the expense of human lives(brave soldiers on both sides).
Somebody hacked the forum and has banned metmike from accessing this thread below and a few others like it, so I created another handle to access it. This was the comment immediately after we found out Ukraine had invaded Russia Here, 8 months later how did that turn out?
Just more profits/ratings/political benefits for the diabolical, military-industrial-political-media complex using propaganda to sell it..........while everybody else suffers tremendously.
Ukraine anxious after Biden’s exit
By metmike - Aug. 14, 2024, 10:51 p.m.
We are hearing/reading dozen of stories about Ukraine making this great effort to surprise Russia by attacking inside of Russia.
And it being spun into something 1,000 times greater than the reality........AGAIN!
All the MSM is colluding AGAIN, with the same absurd propaganda. Complete nonsense........AGAIN!
The only thing that jumping into a small spot in Russia, with no hope of advancing (even while getting whopped worse and worse in Ukraine) is to temporarily increase the areas fighting with this new hot spot and invariably just get more brave Ukrainian soldiers killed.
But while sending all these brave soldiers on suicide missions.....they will hurt Russia a bit........which is the objective of NATO and the real objective of the war.
Ukraine already lost the war by every reasonable standard a long time ago with half their army killed or permanently disabled.
But instead of negotiating, NATO wants this to continue UNTIL THE LAST DROP OF BRAVE UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS BLOOD IS USED UP because the entire objective is to weaken Russia/Putin NOT TO SAVE UKRAINIAN LIVES!
In fact, NATO's clear objective is to SACRIFICE AS MANY UKRAINIAN LIVES THAT THEY CAN TO MAXIMIZE DAMAGE TO RUSSIA.
And for the military-industrial-political-media complex, message gatekeepers and decision making cruds to continue to be massively enriched.
Wake up America!!!
These are HUMAN BEINGS WITH FAMILIES…..ON BOTH SIDES.
STOP BELIEVING THESE LA LA LAND FLAGRANT LIES.
OUR TAX DOLLARS VIA MORALLY BANKRUPT, BOUGHT AND PAID FOR (by the military-industrial complex) POLITICIANS in cahoots with ratings seeking, sensationaling activists, pretending to be objective journalists is the biggest source of this 100% counterproductive endeavor.
Do we want our money to continue to be flushed down the toilet For this never ending war that NATO wants to go on as long as
1. IT CAN KEEP DOING DAMAGE TO RUSSIA
2. There are still some brave Ukrainians left to fight
3. NATO troops can replace the dead Ukrainians
4. The gullible, bamboozled American people continue to believe all the propaganda And fund the war.
5. Dictator Zelensky remains in power, with elections suspended by him….until the war is
over….which never happens because he and NATO won’t seriously negotiate. Instead, they send out propaganda to make it appear as if Ukraine still has a fighting chance. NOT!!
$200,000,000,000 is a lot of money that could do a lot of good.
500,000+ is a lot of dead and permanently disabled brave soldiers From both sides. That’s right……Russian soldiers are brave human beings with no choice, because of where they were born.
With many millions of family members suffering their losses.
NATO AND OUR POLITICIANS WANT US TO HATE RUSSIANS AND WHEN THE MEDIA REPORTS DEAD RUSSIANS WITH GLEE AS THEY TRICK READERS AND VIEWERS INTO CELEBRATING IT WITH THEM AS THEY SUCK US INTO THEIR MORALLY DEPRAVED, DISINGENUOUS, MISINFORMED PROPAGANDA SEWER.
Multiple choice quiz on the catastrophic, blundering decision for Ukraine to invade Russia mentioned on the previous 2 pages.
If Donald Trump had been president last year, everybody on both sides should be able to strongly agree that he would have never invaded Russia like this.
What is the reason that he wouldn't have invaded Russia. 1 and 2 are basically the same thing, using different terms by those that see him this way.
1. Because Donald Trump is Putin's Lapdog in Chief
2. Because Donald Trump is Putin's Puppet.
3. Because Donald Trump isn't an idiot military leader and isn't part of the military-industrial-political-media SWAMP and wanted to save Ukrainian and Russian lives as well as US tax payer money.
4. Fill in the blank with your own answer______________________________________________
https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/29/europe/ukraine-russia-war-belgorod-intl/index.html
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March 27, 2025
The Ukrainian president said NATO is his country's best security guarantee but that the US is "not ready" for Ukraine to join. Zelenskyy also called out the US special envoy for "frequently" repeating Russian propaganda.
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As long as Zelensky continues with this position, Russia will continue to punish Ukraine for it. The war has entirely been about NATO NOT getting Ukraine. Russia won the fighting/battle a long time ago but Zelensky continues to insist on NATO. and criticize the US because our position for peace does NOT include NATO getting Ukraine...........discrediting that position by absurdly calling it "Russian propaganda".
The biggest problem right now is that all the European countries(NATO) are telling Zelensky the exact opposite of Trump and intentionally sabotaging any peace because THEY WANT UKRAINE AND TO DESTROY RUSSIA NOT PEACE.
This new FEEBLE incursion is another retarded military decision, sending brave soldiers on suicide missions because these military leaders are about political agenda and self enrichment NOT smart, strategic decisions that are in the best interest of the actual people fighting THEIR war.
