Top national security officials for President Donald Trump, including his defense secretary, texted war plans for upcoming military strikes in Yemento a group chat in a secure messaging app that included the editor-in-chief for The Atlantic, the magazine reported in a story posted online Monday. The National Security Council said the text chain “appears to be authentic.”
Trump initially told reporters he was not aware that the highly sensitive information had been shared, 2 1/2 hours after it was reported. He later appeared to joke about the breach.
The material in the text chain “contained operational details of forthcoming strikes on Iran-backed Houthi-rebels in Yemen, including information about targets, weapons the U.S. would be deploying, and attack sequencing,” editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg reported.
Senator Ossoff did a fantastic job of being quite aggressive in questioning CIA Director Ratcliffe! This is an intense 55 second clip:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Georgia/comments/1jjp5or/proud_of_senator_jon_ossoff_this_was_a_huge/
Here Are the Attack Plans That Trump’s Advisers Shared on Signal
So, about that Signal chat.
On Monday, shortly after we published a story about a massive Trump-administration security breach, a reporter asked the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, why he had shared plans about a forthcoming attack on Yemen on the Signal messaging app. He answered, “Nobody was texting war plans. And that’s all I have to say about that.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/attack-plans-trump-advisers-shared-121908379.html
Thanks, Larry!
I was going to start a thread on this yesterday but was hoping somebody else would do it first.
They should just have admitted the human mistake(which didn't cause any damage), apologized and went on to important things.
Instead, they deny something using what is clearly a lie and give the other side ammo to turn it into headline news for days and a supposed complete catastrophe threatening the future safety of Americans and that we can never trust anybody in that department for the rest of their careers because they accidentally included the link of somebody in the media on the Signal ap they use for security.
My wife uses Signal every week for discussions with her business partners to keep them private and protected.
I've been in on a couple dozen of those conversations.
Was this a big blunder?
YES but not what the media is trying to make it out to be. Trump's people Lying about it is providing the ammunition/fuel for them to sensationalize/blow it up, which is what they do.
Did it do any harm to the operation or our country?
No. The greatest harm by this human error is being caused by them lying and the media's response to it. It's not even about whether it happened anymore. It's about the lying about it now.
Do politicians and media lie and sensationalize?
Is the sun hot?
Can it be avoided in the future?
100% yes and this incident is a good lesson that makes it very unlikely to happen again but when you can sensationalize a story for ratings and political agenda THAT will become the main priority.
Should we just overlook that it happened?
No way but reporting it should include proper perspective. If Trump's people want to engage in an attempt to cover it up or lie...........then lower the boom on them for being that way.
Signal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)
Signal is an open-source, encrypted messaging service for instant messaging, voice calls, and video calls.[15][16] The instant messaging function includes sending text, voice notes, images, videos, and other files.[17] Communication may be one-to-one between users or may involve group messaging.
The application uses a centralized computing architecture and is cross-platform software. It is developed by the non-profit Signal Technology Foundation and its subsidiary Signal Messenger LLC. Signal's software is free and open-source. Its mobile clients, desktop client, and server are all published under the AGPL-3.0-only license.[a][b][12][11][13][14] The official Android app generally uses the proprietary Google Play Services, although it is designed to be able to work without them. Signal is also distributed for iOS and desktop programs for Windows, macOS, and Linux. Registration for desktop use requires an iOS or Android device.
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https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/25/tech/how-to-use-signal-app-privacy-encryption/index.html
They are being sued because supposedly Signal is not approved for classified Government business.
if I understand it, they claim that Signal cannot record and save all classified transactions which is legally required by law.
If that IS their main case, then they will get nowhere because I know for certain that all Signal discussions can be saved forever. FROM US DOING IT EVERY WEEK!
Most of my wife’s business partners are from other countries, especially Canada.
Hey Mike,
The question of the messages being saved for future reference is not their main case as per what I posted. We know this isn’t “Snap Chat”, whose messages are automatically deleted quickly.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-sued-over-signal-war-plans-texts-what-we-know-2050483
Top Trump administration officials are facing a new lawsuit from the nonpartisan watchdog group American Oversight, following reports that they used the encrypted, auto-deleting app Signal to coordinate sensitive military operations.
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https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/trump-second-term/?id=120087352
Trump admin live updates: Rubio calls journalist being added to Signal 'big mistake'
The secretary of state insisted that the overall mission was never jeopardized.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/trump-second-term/?id=120087352
Secretary of State Marco Rubio weighed in on the Signal debacle for the first time during a press conference in Jamaica, acknowledging that "obviously someone made a big mistake" but insisting that the overall mission was never jeopardized.
"Let me just say on the Signal thing--this thing was set up for purposes of coordinating how everyone was going to call…you know when these things happen, I need to call foreign ministers, especially of our close allies. We need to notify members of Congress. Other members of the team have different people they need to notify as well. And that was the purpose of why it was set up," Rubio said.
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It's ironic that this "big mistake" by them was in the form of such a gift, to the MSM. The Atlantic didn't need to do any sleuth, intensive investigative research and reporting to uncover this mistake.......because THEY WERE the mistake, which was DUMPED INTO THEIR LAPS.
The White House has sought to minimize the national security breach.
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I think that its pretty clear from this incident that all the yapping about Trump silencing the ability of the media to report is greatly overstated.
I said: “We know this isn’t “Snap Chat”, whose messages are automatically deleted quickly.”
——————
I need to make a correction and clarification. Signal messages also typically disappear. I didn’t realize that. The default time to disappear is 24 hours for Snap Chat. I don’t know if there’s a default time for Signal.
Larry,
More investigating, much more relevant/useful information.
I got it completely wrong about my participation and the technology.
My wife reminded me that OUR conference calls were on ZOOM not Signal. I should have remembered that from loading it on my laptop and going to the links and participating around 25 times.
She has another group that uses Signal and says those were NOT recorded on the Signal app but SHE recorded all of them herself by using "Voice memo" on her Iphone.
So anybody can record everything on calls just by engaging an independent recording app on their device.
Not sure how the Atlantic reporter recorded the Signal conference but recording them is obviously not a problem.
Her Evansville business partner that she is close to and I've interacted with hundred of times is extremely knowledgeable in this field. This is what he does, in fact He has numerous contracts in this exact field, government security systems, so he is an authority.
He and my wife discussed this yesterday and he is blown away about them using Signal, which is NOT completely secure vs the government communication system which is the most secure in the world.
His speculation is that there was somebody they wanted on the call that did not have clearance or access to the government communication system. His speculation gets most of my weighting from him being the expert.
He is a devoted republican so if he thinks its a big blunder.........it's a BIG blunder.
Also, add my speculation that possibly the newly appointed people in the Trump administration may have been using Signal frequently BEFORE they took on this role and felt most comfortable using it from experience. There could be some sort of downside to them using the extremely secure government communication system that they wanted to avoid.
Wild speculation but maybe a legality that could hold them accountable for something recorded which is indisputable evidence vs it not being so powerful when recorded on a separate, independent device that can doctor/alter the recording????
Signal and Zoom are both pretty secure for you and me which is why she/we and her partners use it.
The conference calls I was involved with, were Zoom and that was picked by her Evansville partner so I will guess that he had some sort of reason for that. I know that he was recording them too and we could listen later but he may have been using a different app to do that.
My wife's conversations on Signal were extremely confidential.
The group that I was with(that included 3 of the same people in the other group) using Zoom were involved in conversations that did NOT need to be as secure.
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So there appears to be 3 big blunders here.
1. Using Signal when conversations like this should have ONLY been on the extremely secure government communication system.
2. Mistakenly putting a reporter for the Atlantic on the list of parties in the conference call.
3. Lying about it
This is more about Zoom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_(software)
This article claims Signal is better:
56 facts in comparison
https://versus.com/en/signal-vs-zoom-cloud-meetings
I remember using Face Time alot in the past, even playing chess with my Dad in his 90's from 500 miles away!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaceTime
He actually had a camera at his end and I could see his board, although I had a board set up here that he couldn't see.
It worked because every square of the 64 on the chess board has an identity going from A-1 to H-8.
Pieces are denoted by a letter (K=King, Q=Queen and so on).
Recording a chess game using this method of chess language is called Notation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_notation_(chess)
Algebraic notation is the standard method of chess notation, used for recording and describing moves. It is based on a system of coordinates to identify each square on the board uniquely.[1] It is now almost universally used by books, magazines, newspapers, and software, and is the only form of notation recognized by FIDE,[2] the international chess governing body.
An early form of algebraic notation was invented by the Syrian player Philip Stamma in the 18th century. In the 19th century, it came into general use in German chess literature and was subsequently adopted in Russian chess literature. Descriptive notation, based on abbreviated natural language, was generally used in English language chess publications until the 1980s. Similar descriptive systems were in use in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_notation
And what is the bottom line to all this breathless reporting? A bunch of Huthi terrorist who spend their time raping, beheading, killing, and stealing are now dead and gone. And the world is far better off for it. Can we some how pay attention to business and not noise.
Naive and sloppy behavior by top Trump aides could have endangered US pilots. One of the worst intelligence breaches by top officials in years, it raises grave questions about the competence of top officials meant to keep Americans safe.
The obsession with answering a national security scandal with a fiercely political argument is characteristic of a White House that never admits wrongdoing — following one of the core principles of Trump’s pre-political life.
But the drama may already have damaged US operations in Yemen as well as America’s reputation more broadly and offered an intelligence bonanza to its enemies. The contempt by top officials for basic security precautions and a refusal to hold themselves to account for transgressions that could get a subordinate dismissed or even prosecuted can only compromise the integrity of government.
White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt on Wednesday insisted that the affair was a big “hoax” and showed that “Democrats and their propagandists in the mainstream media know how to fabricate, orchestrate and disseminate a misinformation campaign quite well.” She also attacked the integrity of Atlantic editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg, who was mistakenly added to the chat among senior officials.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-says-yemen-security-040052164.html
Regardless, I’m glad the airstrikes to kill key Houthi leadership were successful.
“The group has been a central player in Yemen's civil war, drawing widespread international condemnation for its human rights abuses, including targeting civilians and using child soldiers. The movement is designated as a terrorist organization by some countries. The Houthis are backed by Iran”
The FBI probe found that Clinton stored tens of thousands of emails from her time at the State Department on several different unsecured private servers – including seven email chains discussing classified material determined to be at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level.
In total, Comey’s investigation discovered 113 emails in 52 email chains that contained classified information.
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The lightbulb just went off in my head to CONFIRM what I was speculating about earlier.
Clinton used a private server so she could be unaccountable in the future, if/when she broke laws or acted inappropriately because the secure, government communication system stores everything forever.
With her private server, when they subpoenaed her to get the records.........she deleted everything using bleach bit, so nothing could be recovered.
For sure Trump's people were all recording these conversations on Signal with their own PRIVATE apps, like my wife does with "voice memo" with all her private Signal conference calls and how Hilary did.
All those Trump people have complete control over those private recordings, just like Hillary did. If they get subpoenaed....................Whoops they were accidentally deleted. Happens all the time with CORRUPT government people.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hillary-clinton-calls-staggering-gop-023636676.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
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Trump and his allies repeatedly went after Clinton for not using proper government channels to send messages containing classified material.
“If it was anyone other than Hillary Clinton, they would be in jail right now,” Hegseth once said in a 2016 segment during his time as a host on Fox News."
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As the media, Ds(and DOJ at the time) pretend they didn't give Hillary a free pass!!
https://www.fox6now.com/news/trump-signal-chat-the-atlantic-hillary-clinton
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For sure the Rs and people in Trumps orbit are being blatant hypocrites right now, but why is the media getting a free pass on their own blatant hypocrisy?
It's because its the media reporting it and there is no accountability for the media.
Why didn't they report with the same gusto about Clinton's 100 times more egregious server, law breaking violations THEN really illegal deleting all of it when she was subpoenaed to provide it.
https://time.com/7271654/trump-reactions-groupchat-leak-waltz-hegseth-hillary-clinton-emails-server/
Then: “How is it Hillary Clinton can delete 33,000 government emails on a private server, yet President Trump gets indicted for having documents he could declassify?” Waltz posted in June 2023, referencing charges against Trump for mishandling classified documents. The case was scrapped after Trump won a second term.
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The comparison, which the media is trying to make being apples to apples is NOTHING LIKE THAT. Hillary Clinton used a private server and Trumps people used a private server........END OF SIMILARITY.
Trumps people accidentally copied a reporter to the group chat.
Hillary Clinton was LEGALLY subpoenaed to submit a copy of ALL those emails, conducting government business, some of it classified documents AND SHE DELETED ALL OF IT.
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This is an example of how the media earns the title of "the enemy of the people"
1. The number of times for Hillary's infraction had to be 1000+ greater than this and lasted over numerous years.
2. For me, it wasn't the server thing for Clinton as much as her INTENTIONALLY deleting 33,000 emails(17,000 work related). Nobody does this unless there's incriminating evidence in the emails. She did it after the FBI served a legal warrant to her to get that information which is a crystal clear "obstruction of justice act".
So how did the MSM treat Clinton in 2016 after the did this?
Read for yourself:
Donald Trump demanded to know why Hillary Clinton's emails were deleted.
ByABC News
September 27, 2016, 8:33 AM
ABC News: The bottom line: Clinton believed the deleted emails were not work-related.
"Clinton said her team "went through a thorough process" to identify work-related emails, and she said he had "absolute confidence that everything that could be in any way connected to work is now in the possession of the State Department."
However, after a year-long investigation, the FBI recovered more than 17,000 emails that had been deleted or otherwise not turned over to the State Department, and many of them were work-related, the FBI has said."
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metmike: It's impossible to believe that somebody could have had "absolute confidence" in more than 17,000 supposedly mistaken deleted emails, especially such a brilliant person.
But that's how the enemy of the people covered it "Clinton believed the deleted emails were not work-related"
17,000 worth! And what about the obstruction of justice crime, doing this after the FBI subpoenaed those exact emails? Nobody gets to decide on their own which ones they will sent to the FBI and delete the ones that show evidence of wrong doing on their part!!!!!
The MSM is calling out the Rs for their 2016 hypocrisy on the Hillary email scandal. Who's calling out the MSM on their MUCH WORSE hypocrisy???
Answer: NOBODY because the MSM is colluding with the same exact 1 sided, distorted narratives like they always do.
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I made my position clear here which is strongly condemning Trump. This is NO defense of Trump:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110679/#110692
"So there appears to be 3 big blunders here.
1. Using Signal when conversations like this should have ONLY been on the extremely secure government communication system.
2. Mistakenly putting a reporter for the Atlantic on the list of parties in the conference call.
3. Lying about it"
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I need to add an additional crime that Hillary committed. In addition to obstruction of Justice, she committed a separate crime of DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE. Crystal clearly she did!
https://www.simmonswagner.com/get-the-facts-on-when-destruction-of-evidence-becomes-a-crime/
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But this is how the enemy people(Washignton Post) wants you to view it:
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A poll like this is only a measure of how effective the MSM has been at convincing people of what they brainwashed them with. Is this incident REALLY more serious than Clintons numerous years of doing the exact same thing, then blatantly committing the crimes of "obstruction of Justice" AND destruction of evidence" ???
The MSM coverage clearly has said that over and over, covering up for Hillary's VERY SERIOUS crimes and sensationalizing Trumps big mistake/lying. Is it a surprise that the sheeple also believe what they read?
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Does this make readers better informed? or misinformed on objective truths that are constantly and intentionally spun to 1 side?
What is the job of professional journalists supposed to be?
Do they have an obligation to the people to report honestly, objectively and not serve only the interests of 1 party?
Did they do that here, when comparing Hillary's serious crimes to this big Trump blunder?
They did it in collusion and with impunity as usual as they imposed their narratives on readers and viewers!!!!!!
The cover up!
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/09/the-fbi-files-on-clintons-emails/
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I describe in indisputable detail, the famous Phoenix airport secret meeting between the head of the department of justice, Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton to arrange the "fix"to let Hillary off for her email CRIMES that was busted by a whistleblower who tipped off a Phoenix TV station reporter and photographer that came out there to surprise them.
She ended up resigning over it and passing the case on to corrupt Jim Comey.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/84655/#85148
They got away with this one too:
June 2016: Loretta Lynch-Bill Clinton meeting.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/24146/#24224
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Other than that tv station, how did the media report on this?
Most of them covered it up or pretended it was a coincidence.
Was that another example of informing people about the objective truths as responsible journalists or was it colluding with Ds, the Justice department and the rest of the MSM to help elect the D candidate?
That was a rhetorical question!
IT HAPPENED!!!!
Give me a break on this incident being in the vicinity of the ballpark of the Hillary email scandal and crimes!
We know with certainty that Hillary did this for many years(used a private server, with 17,000 work related emails deleted) then committed crimes of obstruction of justice AND destroying evidence.
No charges were filed against her. It was just a huge cover up.
But when Trump's people do it 1 time, looky what the response is.
Again, this is not trying to minimize what just happened. https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110679/#110692 Its observing and reporting the difference between how the MSM reported when Hillary committed her crimes and this HUGE blunder incident.
https://www.newsweek.com/judge-boasberg-hands-trump-admin-new-directive-about-signal-texts-2051753
A lawsuit filed in response to Trump cabinet members' spine-chilling abandonment of federal record-keeping rules has been assigned to the same judge that MAGAs are riled at.
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What are the odds??? As if this judge can be fair.! We know how unbiased D judges are with Donald Trump cases:
The crimes in these NY cases were manufactured. In fact, a so called victim in this crime actually testified...........FOR TRUMP!
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-civil-fraud-trial-decision-02-16-24/index.html
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‘Through the roof!’ Jaw-dropping numbers: Why Trump, MAGA can’t lie their way out of Signal scandal
Google searches this week versus last week for these topics: For The Atlantic, how many people are searching for The Atlantic? Up 900%. That is the highest on record since Google searches began, they started tracking them in 2004.
How about for Signal, of course, the app of which this all occurred: Up over 1,000%. Again, the highest on record, it has gone up through the roof on these two particular two topics.
Whether or not people ultimately care and it changes their minds about the administration, that’s one thing. But the interest at this particular point is absolutely there. People are interested in this story.
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The MSM is a for profit business that puts ratings ahead of EVERYTHING. They are exploiting this to the max for a massive ratings/profit surge.
Ilhan Omar Is Drafting Impeachment Articles Over Signalgate Controversy — Report
https://www.axios.com/2025/03/27/hegseth-waltz-ratcliffe-impeachment-ilhan-omar
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Signalgate Crisis Deepens With More Messages Revealed
++++++++++++
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Keep in mind that what Hillary did with her blatant crimes was ENTIRELY INTENTIONAL. What happened with Signal gate, was ACCIDENTALLY including a reporter in the Signal chat discussion. This was a human error and NOT a crime.
Why were they using Signal instead of the Government server is another question.
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Why didn't they sue Hillary for being 1,000 times more egregious and committing crimes after being busted?
+++++++++++++++++
https://time.com/7271871/trump-signal-chat-atlantic/
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https://www.newsweek.com/signal-chat-leak-more-serious-clinton-emails-americans-poll-2051262
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I could fill up many more pages with stuff just like this. This is likely to go on for some time!
OK, time to put on our thinking caps and do some serious, HONEST critical thinking about how this REALLY happened and WHY.
First, some basic information about how this world works.
1. MarketForum has been hacked several times by brilliant, powerful and NEFARIOUS entities that blocked the moderator or completely deleted threads they didn't want to be here.
2. There are trillions of dollars at stake in the carbon sequestration pipeline business. Because of my wife's business, I am involved but no longer able to post ANYTHING related to her business here because of what I know and because of nefarious entities. Trust me, I wish like heck to tell you who did what to MarketForum and why. They tried to get my wife fired over my HONEST posting of 100% legit facts here.
3. They or somebody with similar nefarious, crony capitalism intentions hacked MarketForum and completely deleted an ANTI carbon sequestration thread here. For certain this happened.
4. A technically skilled, nafarious entity has hacked MarketForum to block only the moderator here from Ukraine war threads/posts and a couple of other threads that only metmike is blocked from . To sabotage their effort to block/censor me, I use a different handle, commodityman to access those threads anyway. If they wanted, they could actually mess things up here REALLY bad.
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So that's the backdrop for people to understand how the REAL world works in 2025, unseen and unknown to almost everybody. That is also what makes using Signal, usually an extremely secure but not perfect server a bad idea for this group. This was a HUGE mistake by the Trump people(who must have done it for the same reason Hillary did with 17,000 work emails-to prevent a permanent governmental recording of the discussions that could bite them/her legally/or hold them accountable down the road for things recorded). Before they had this position in government, Trump's people were likely very familiar with using private, very secure Signal conferences/chats. My wife has participated in at least 100 private, Signal conferences the past 4 years with as many as a dozen people on the calls. She and I were also part of another private, very secure server group with around 10 people (3 of them the same people from her Signal chat group) that used Zoom for around 25 chats.
As evidenced by the MarketForum hacks, powerful/technically brilliant entities can hack into places like this. They can access your emails and other conversations too. My son has set up a system for me to use a unique browser so that my emails can't be tracked or hacked if I want. I use it occasionally for certain things but only rarely.
They can likely hack into Zoom and Signal conversations with their technical expertise. It would be almost impossible for them to hack into the most secure server, the US government system server. Again, using Signal was the biggest wrong thing that Trump's people did here.
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Now, with this understanding we can go on to the main points of this conversation below that require knowledge of what goes on, then critical thinking to figure out how this REALLY happened. Chances are extremely high that this was not just a dumb mistake of accidentally putting a reporter that hates you on a private conversation that could be used to decimate you. That makes no sense. There is a very tiny chance that he did it intentionally because he has ulterior motives.
The KEY thing to remember is that the guy who built the contacts list for this Signal conference call/chat, Mike Waltz did not even have the Atlantic reporter as a contact on his own phone. These were the contacts used to build the list. It's extremely likely that this is the same list of participants that have been participating in Signal chats on this topic for quite awhile.
This bombing, didn't just come from nowhere. There MUST HAVE been long lived planning and communicating that involved over a dozen discussions between members of this exact same group, using the exact same contacts and Signal.
The $64,000 question is how did the Atlantic reporter, suddenly get on the chat group list out of nowhere. He was not even on Walt's contact list to include him in the chat???
Some outside entity must have hacked into this discussion is one strong possibility based on what I explained above.
This wonderfully insightful discussion from an astute, knowledgeable reporter, actually using critical thinking doing the job of a REAL journalist covers it well.
A Signal messenger account under the name of National Security Advisor Mike Waltz,
J.J. Green | jgreen@wtop.com March 27, 2025, 2:10 PM
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A special bulletin from the National Security Agency said Russian hackers were able to spy on the encrypted messaging app used to share the Yemen attack plan.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
There's also the possibility that an insider in the group wanted to embarrass Waltz or sabotage the administration for a personal reason.
This explanation is plausible if you look at the history of people that have worked for Trump. He appoints them to a prestigious position that they've wanted their entire lives, THEN after working for him for several months or more, they can't stand him. They part ways under negative circumstances and end up being used for anti Trump interviews on CNN or MSNBC for the rest of their lives.
Any 1 of those in the group would be capable of doing this which provides circumstances for them to appear to have legit reasons for departing down the road at some point.
It’s very possible that the Atlantic reporter is the source of the hack.
Why was he the one that got added to the group chat?
Why not somebody from the New York Times?
Having more than 1 reporter added would make it clearly a hack that was easier to explain as a hack VS a mistake by the guy inviting everyone. We don’t actually know if others were on the list or not. An added person could completely miss it if they were not expecting this and recognized what it was. They must then, sign in to join the conference after being invited and having the right information to get in.
There would have to be a specific reason related to knowing that he would recognize it, then use it against this group, exactly as it happened.
++++++
Another very odd item is that the Atlantic reporter recorded the entire thing. My wife has to set up an entirely separate app to record her Signal chats. She has to know when they are coming and what they are before hand to justify engaging the recording at the right times.
++++++
The biggest thing that just hit me, from participating in dozens of these chats is the fact that everybody can see everybody, including yourself signed in at all times.
Their names,along with their live image from the camera on their device if they choose to use it OR a freeze frame image or just their name.
How did the reporter NOT show up on the screen while the conference/chat was taking place?
The way that Signal works is that there is always a grid view that shows who is on the call and who is speaking…..even if you are only listening.
This makes no sense. The others on the call would have immediately seen this bad actor and the call would have ended.
unless the bad actor picked a username on the screen that made them appear to be part of the group!!!!!!
We may be getting somewhere now!
I see we are weaving conspiracies again.... sad.
The difference between Clinton and this leak is that Clinton was paranoid about political enemies and these war plans were leaked due to incompetence. Amateur hour. That is what happens when you appoint completely unqualified people in government whose ONLY qualifications are their loyalty to Trump.
Thanks, joj!
Youve been here long enough to know that I never follow or create conspiracy theories …..I bust them and always with authentic facts.
I notice that you often resort to such mischaracterizations when you don’t like those authentic facts.
Your theory is that Clinton used a private server because she was paranoid about political enemies but Trumps people were not?
Geeesh!
If this story did 1 thing that everybody should agree on it’s demonstrate clearly that Trumps people have an astronomical number of political enemies, especially in the MSM and they are coming from everywhere!
Thats actually one of the main points in this thread that indisputably shows many of those political enemies from the MSM. Using authentic facts, that you call a conspiracy theory.
In the last couple of days, he's been called a "loser" and a "sleazebag" by President Donald Trump, as well as a liar and "scum" by US National Security Advisor Michael Waltz, who appeared to have mistakenly added Goldberg to a group chat earlier this month.
In an interview with the BBC on Wednesday, he told me it all began when he got a message on his phone, via the publicly available Signal messaging app, which allows users to send each other encrypted messages. It's popular among journalists and government officials. An account under Waltz's name had messaged him, which he assumed was a hoax.
"But he asked me to talk. I said yes. And next thing I know, I'm in this very strange chat group with the national security leadership of the United States."
As the fall-out of the episode has engulfed Washington, Waltz has taken responsibility for mistakenly adding Goldberg to the group chat, suggesting that he meant to invite somebody else.
He has insisted that he has never met the editor, saying: "I wouldn't know him if I bumped into him, if I saw him in a police lineup".
By Goldberg's account, the two have actually met several times, though he declined to go into detail about their relationship.
Still, one thing is clear: you must already have someone's contact information to reach them on Signal, and so Waltz had Goldberg's phone number.
The bigger question? "Should you, as national security officials, be doing this on Signal on your phone?" Goldberg said.
"Once Donald Trump said there was nothing to see here, essentially, and once Tulsi Gabbard and John Ratcliffe said there was no sensitive information, no classified information, et cetera - we felt like, hm, we disagree," he said. "They're saying that, and we're the ones who have the texts, so maybe people should see them."
"This is their move. You never defend, just attack," Goldberg said. "So I'm sitting there, minding my own business. They invite me into this Signal chat and now they're attacking me as a sleaze bag, I don't even get it."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rk7vyg83xo.amp
Thanks much, Larry!
I saw that reported in around half a dozen stories.
Theres a ton of unanswered questions but we know a few things with high confidence.
For sure they should never have used Signal. By itself this was a massive failure and maybe illegal.
For sure this was classified information. Whoever decided to use Signal instead of the most secure government server should be fired.
They likely did it for the exact same reason that Hillary did.
joj nailed the reason for Hillary doing it…..to eliminate a record of the discussion that might be used against her because she’s a D but can’t get himself to apply the same reason to Rs. It’s more than being paranoid. They both have enemies that WILL use whatever they can get to destroy them.
For sure they should acknowledge being at fault for whatever happened. It all comes down to them using Signal, especially after being warned a month ago TO NOT USE SIGNAL because it could be hacked.
Again, somebody should be fired for using Signal at the very least.
Since the source from 1 side is the rock bottom credibility media, I’ll wait for confirmation of his crazy version.
He got into this group chat somehow, we know that with certainty.
i interrogated my wife further to pick her brain about Signal since she was having weekly conference calls on Signal for over 2 years with 1 group.
She says that it isn’t as easy to see and verify everybody at the same time as it is with Zoom, which was used by her/ our other discussion group. Regardless, they should have been able to see everybody who was on the call if everybody was using the sign in ID and protocol.
Based on the reporters story, he was invited, confirmed and they must have known that he was on, which doesn’t make sense.
If he hacked to get in, there is no way he’s going to give us that version.
Hey Mike,
Waltz admitted it, himself, as per the article I just posted:
“Waltz has taken responsibility for mistakenly adding Goldberg to the group chat, suggesting that he meant to invite somebody else.”
Thanks, Larry.
You are not including the rest of the story and statements from Waltz and others.
when back in my office, I’ll include that.
You're aware that a phone can be hacked, right? That somebody could change the information and put this reporters phone number for the contact information of somebody else that Waltz wanted on the conference.
Waltz is taking full responsibility but if this contact is listed on his phone as being Donald Trump or Joe Blow for instance, then during the group chat, he will show up as Donald Trump or Joe Blow on the screen.
the question is how did the wrong contact information get on his phone for the right person?
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im not even sure that a very secure government server would have prevented this from happening if he added bad information from a hacked phone contact information list.
Again, this is one,of the very odd pieces of information that make no sense.
However, one would think that there would be personal phone security measures that would provide protection. Regardless, we know that hackers are becoming more and more clever and defeating methods used to stop them.
The internet, phone and other communications industry has had their hands full trying to stay protected for people and businesses and sometimes fail.
ransomeware is a huge deal.
a local hospital lost everything last spring from hackers. And a massive cyber attack. Ill copy my nightmarish experience thread with that when back in the office.It’s titled “wake up Americans” you can look it up in the search engine in the top right box. Most people have no idea how vulnerable we are and the damage being done.
Hey Mike,
Did you see this? If not, please let me know if this changes your thinking:
The “small group” of officials that included Susie Wiles, JD Vance, and Michael Waltz didn’t seem to question the identity of their silent interloper, “JG.” We have some guesses of what they must have been thinking.
Goldberg, he wrote, bore only a display name of “JG,” and apparently went unnoticed throughout the detailed conversations among the 18 users in the group, all the way through the prayer-hands emojis and general celebrations after the strike was complete, then removed himself from the group chat, taking his screenshots and bewilderment along with him.
Now that the group chat oopsie has made headlines and its alleged members are busy being grilled by the Senate Intelligence Committee, we’re here to ask the important question: Who the hell did Waltz think “JG” was when he added him to the group? Trump on Tuesday blamed “one of Michael’s people on the phone” for Goldberg’s inclusion, but even if that’s true, that doesn’t explain who they thought this silent participant was. If the working group was really as “small” as the title claims, wouldn’t it be weird if a key person just ghosted on them?
There is, of course, the possibility that the intended invitee was American trade representative Jamieson Greer, considering that the strikes involved trade routes, or that Waltz (or his “people”) mistook “JG” for “JD” and smashed the “add” button and later was like, “wait, huh, I thought I’d added Vance to this thing
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/story/pete-hegseth-jd-vance-michael-waltz-signalgate-who-is-jg
Thanks very much, Larry!
That does actually explain something that was unanswered in my mind. As mentioned previously, everybody in conversation shows up with an identify to everybody else. In every single conference/group chat I've been in, everybody also had an image of themselves which is almost always live. However, sometimes they will have a still frame(my wife taught me that when I need to leave the room to put up a still frame because nothing looks worse in a conference is for everybody else to see you leaving and having an empty window). The person has control over what they want to show up.........live image, still frame image or whatever.
In this case, we know that Goldberg was not pretending to be somebody else from using the initials which I didn't think he would do because that would blow up badly in his face. He knew clearly it was a mistake and he shouldn't be there but he used the credentials that were sent to him which made that part of it legit from his end.
No way would he use a picture of himself because then he would get busted, so he just used initials. Every conference call that Deb and I have been on always uses full first names. Even with the picture.
Since this was on a different level altogether, I can understand just initials. It appears from the story that everybody assumed JG was cleared because only people cleared would have been invited BUT WAS HE cleared intentionally or not?
This was one of the best, understandable timelines that I've seen but still with some missing pieces of the puzzle:
The unanswered question is still the same. How did he get on Waltz's phone and cleared to be on this Signal group?
1. Waltz wanted him there which seems unlikely
2. Walz had an extreme blunder and actually invited a Trump hating reporter that was properly denoted on his phone.
3. Somebody hacked Walt's phone and put Goldberg's contact information under a credentialed person or used some other trick to get Waltz invited. One would think that Waltz would be telling us this but it could actually make him look MUCH worse by telling us that unauthorized entities hacked his phone and caused this which basically suggests something even worse than a 1 time, HUGE brain fart blunder.
We all know that this was classified information but even if it was NOT classified, Goldberg may have broke the law by recording it and then worse yet, publishing what was illegal for him to record without permission from the participants.
Can you legally record a conversation with someone without them knowing?
There is a near 100% chance that he is going to be charged with a crime here. It's one thing to try to make a case that the invite was legit from his end but what he did after that with it was NOT LEGAL.
This will be controversial when it hits with 2 extreme sides but the laws are against him.
One side will continue to glorify him as a great hero for exposing Trump people. .....NO MATTER what has to be done to take them down and insist that he's being singled out with unfair politically motivated justice.
They will be wrong about the laws regarding what Goldberg did. I can't see how Goldberg avoids LEGIT legal consequences.
If you ask every single person on that call to testify under oath whether they gave JG permission to record it, then publish it, what do you think they will say?
That's in addition to all of them saying they would never even want him on the call and JG has admitted publicly that he knew they wouldn't want him on the call.
There are clearly stated privacy laws to protect people from doing what he did......even with basic conversations. But this was on several levels ABOVE THAT on A VERY PRIVATE SERVER discussing extremely sensitive information for a reason. So that ONLY the parties in the group would share any of it with each other. JG knows that and can't pretend otherwise. He recorded it against their wishes and shared it with the world. It doesn't violate the privacy laws more blatantly than that.
He has no legal basis to stand on.
You won't like that interpretation but you are encouraged to show me laws that indicate the opposite.
Larry,
Your source intentionally uses this misleading verbiage.
There must be some word for this feeling, one that conveys “finding out that the country’s top national security guys communicate their bombing plans via group text instead of secure government channels.
Trying to make it appear that Signal is not an extremely secure way to communicate. My wife has had 100+ conference calls/chats with a group that uses it because its the most secure network you and me can use and their business discussions MUST be extremely secure. I can't even post any of what I know here and you know how I love providing new and unprecedented information.
The government communication system is the MOST secure, however and they should have only used that one, like Hillary should have only used that one for her 10s of thousands of emails.
https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/
| District of Columbia | In D.C. it is a criminal offense to use any device to record communications whether it’s wire, oral or electronic without the consent of at least one person taking part in the communication. Albeit there is a caveat in that recording is allowed to take place if there is no reasonable expectation of privacy such as a public place such as a street or park. | https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/district-columbia-recording-laws/ |
joj and Larry,
I know that it "feels like" we are on opposing sides here but I'm not on "a side".
I'm thrilled to expose the Trump people for using Signal, especially when they were warned NOT TO USE SIGNAL over a month ago.
Then to expose them for lying about whether this was classified or not and any other details.
I'm just as thrilled to expose the media for their incredibly one sided/biased reporting.
This incident, happened quickly, then it was over. We basically know what was said and what MOST of the facts are with regards to the blunders.
The MSM coverage on steroids, however is relentless and never ending and its likely going to continue for some time. I will continue to objectively analyze it and critique it for their blatant bias and inaccuracies. This is what I do. This is NOT defending Trump's people as you can see from calling out their huge blunders.
I feel that Trumps people should just admit all their mistakes, commit to using the government server then file the lawsuits against the reporter based on the authentic facts and laws.
When this goes to court, one of the most important items to decide legality MIGHT be whether Goldberg will be considered a "participant" or whether he was eavesdropping by the court's definition when he recorded the conversations.
1. If he was a participant, then only his permission may be needed to make recording the conversations legal. At least with traditional conversations that include conference and group chats. The bar may be set much higher for a private group conversation with classified information.
2. If he was an eavesdropper and not part of the conversation, then what he did was illegal because 0 participants gave him permission to record the conversations.
Of the 18 participants, how many would testify under oath that he was NOT a participant and they did NOT want him there?
Probably all 18. He can't fake otherwise and pretend that he thought that he was a participant from receiving a legit invite from people that wanted him there because he's already mentioned repeatedly that he knows it was a mistake and he should not have been there.
Goldberg has been around the block enough to know that his recording of an extremely sensitive conference call on a very private server (intended to avoid exactly what he did) with 0 participants giving their permission (and in fact knowing all 18 would have vehemently refused permission in no uncertain terms) is illegal. So his doing it, intentionally violated the law.
Then he went 1 step further and published the illegally obtained recording for the entire world to see to intentionally try to make the people in the conversation look bad for political reasons and for him to look clever as well as to generate additional sales for his business of selling the news.
If the conversation is deemed to be classified which he clearly knew it was, then recorded it and published it anyways, it seems like the legal consequences might be extremely serious.
Even participants that were supposed to be there would be held to a standard which prevents them from revealing classified information to others.
He did not participate in the conversation and knew he wasn't supposed to be there AND published everything for his self serving interests.
I get the trying to justify doing it to prove to everybody what happened. However, he chose to break a law to do that because he decided this was more important than following the law.
Let's say that I'm having a debate about how fast my car is and my friends insist that I'm full of it. So I take the doubting Thomas's on a trip in my car and go 150 mph. When a cop catches up to me and pulls me over., should I just tell the cop that I needed to prove to the passengers that I'm telling the truth about how fast my car goes?
That likely won't work. Just like Goldberg telling the court he had to publish classified information to prove what happened. The law is the law.
I just watched a recording of Pam Bondi insisting that this was not classified information.
Sensitive information she says but not classified information.
They can keep pretending that by changing the terminology to fool some people that believe only what they say and don’t use critical thinking.
Jeres the thing. They are downgrading the importance of this Signal conference call to try to get people to think it was less of a blunder but it is having the exact 100% diametrically opposed, polar opposite impact.
1. In addition to the initial huge blunder, it displays an even worse flaw. The top officials in the Trump administration are so inept that they can’t tell the difference between a sensitive discussion and what everybody knows should clearly be a classified discussion.
2. The ironic thing is that spinning it to be NOT classified means the reporter that was accidentally invited to the conference because of the mistake but did not participate and illegally recorded the conversation, then REALLY illegally published it for the world……did so only with sensitive information and NOT the much more serious classified information that everybody knows it was.
3. Being convicted of publishing classified information carries a penalty of up to 10 years in jail. We know that’s what he did. ……but they can’t go after him for that because the investigation would prove they are lying about this being NOT classified and the investigation would show how they messed up and included the exact WRONG person to observe the CLASSIFIED discussion.
It was only thru their bungle that he was given the opportunity to break the law!!
I forgot to include the thread about the huge cyber attack on one of our local hospitals and dozens of hospitals across the country in the same group last year that messed them up bad for months.
Most people don't realize how these brilliant techno-crooks can hack into your computer, phone or electronic devices using clever methods. This is why most people don't realize that they can hack the contact information on your phone or other device and change it.
They have likely hacked into MarketForum several times to impact me directly.
Did this happen in the case of Signal-gate and the phone contact information used for the Signal conference? I never thought that it DID happen, just that its very plausible and still think it was possible.
To rule it out before all the evidence is in is being naive or using political tunnel vision.
Wake up Americans!!!
33 responses |
Started by metmike - June 4, 2024, 4:37 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/104579/
I have to apologize to readers here for only reading MSM articles sensationalizing and exaggerating the significance of this event and completely missing Trumps statement that it was a mistake and they probably won't be using Signal anymore. It's no wonder the MSM can do this to everybody because they just did it to me this past week using their franchise/monopoly on news and colluding together with false narratives.
I had the impression from articles here and elsewhere that Trump was saying they made no mistakes and didn't acknowledge that using Signal was a bad idea.
Loose lips and laughable PR are helping to keep the scandal afloat.
The New York Times, meanwhile, chronicled the anger and bewilderment from current and former American fighter pilots – “a dozen Air Force and Navy fighter pilots,” the Times said – about the recent intelligence breach and the response to it from Hegseth in particular.
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This is classic "enemy of the people" type propaganda from TDS political activists pretending to be practicing objective journalism to brainwash the sheeple!
It won't fade because the "enemy of the people" want to exploit the heck out of this, distorting everything way out of proportion. The only thing left to debate was whether this was classified or not. We know that it was by our standards and Trump's people claim it wasn't and they are the ones deciding...........it's time to move on because:
1. Both President Trump AND US National Security Advisor Michael Waltz,have both acknowledged it was a mistake.. Waltz has taken full responsibility for it. MSM, STOP PRETENDING OTHERWISE(even fooling me in conversations here) or demanding more than this for your agenda. This is all we're going to get..........let's move on.
2. Not only has Trump admitted the mistake he says they will likely NOT be using Signal again. Where in the MSM headlines was this being reported? This tells us that THEY LEARNED SOMETHING from this mistake and will be using the Government Communication System from now on most of the time.
3. Not only was no damage done.........NONE, the operation was a massive success. Why did this get no headlines the past week?
4. Using Signal was NOT the failure. My wife has used it 100+ times because her group demands the most secure server available to the world outside of the government server. MSM, stop pretending that Signal is not secure. A month ago, hackers were able to break into Signal with an isolated incident and resulted in warnings about using it......so Trump's group shouldn't have been using it anymore but please stop projecting FAKE NEWS that Signal is not extremely secure. And Trump already told us they won't be using Signal anymore but that will never be enough. This will go on and on and on with dishonest interpretations and sensationalism. That's what the MSM does.
President Trump on Tuesday acknowledged a mistake occurred when a journalist was swept up in a text message chain with top administration officials on plans for an attack on Houthi rebels, saying issues can happen with modern technology.
Trump defended Waltz earlier on Tuesday, saying he “has learned a lesson.”
In the meeting with U.S. ambassadors, Trump said he doesn’t think Signal will be used anymore but that a situation could arise in which you need “speed over gross safety.”
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What is not crystal clear about those words in bold???
Again, my apologies for totally missing this in trying to see the points of the media and givng them way too much weighting, which caused me to ignore some key authentic facts.
https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/is-signal-safe-4129801
Signal is safer than many messaging apps because it uses end-to-end encryption, which ensures that no one (not even Signal) can intercept and read your messages.
Unlike Telegram, which also benefits from end-to-end encryption in its “secret chats”, Signal has the feature enabled by default so you won’t have to take any additional steps to get this extra layer of privacy.
“Signal is safe to use, mainly because it provides end-to-end encryption, which means messages are secured before they’re sent, and they are decrypted only once they arrive at the intended recipient’s device”, explained McAfee VP Antony Demetriades.
“Essentially, it encodes your message so that only the intended recipient’s device can unlock it”.
There are also options for users who don’t want to connect their Signal account with their personal phone number or iCloud history.
“While the platform requires your mobile number to sign up, you can set this up using a Google voice number, while Apple users can stop their history from syncing with the cloud by turning off ‘show calls in recents’ in settings”, added Demetriades.
https://cyberinsider.com/secure-encrypted-messaging-apps/signal/
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This is NOT suggesting that Signal is a good substitute for the MORE secure government server. It's just to tell the truth about it to contrast the MSM fake news. It's also not suggesting that Trump was using Signal for a different reason than Hillary used her own private server. They were both trying to avoid all the conversations being permanently recorded in the archives and potential liabilities in accountability for actions/conversations.
The contrast between the 2 cases is like a mole hill compared to Mt. Everest but the MSM treats the mole hill like Mt. Everest and treated Mt. Everest like a mole hill.
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/09/the-fbi-files-on-clintons-emails/
New York Times, July 8: In the video of the exchange, Ms. Keilar can be heard asking whether Mrs. Clinton was suggesting that her predecessors deleted emails while “facing” a subpoena, A spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, Nick Merrill, said she was reacting to that specific question, pointing out that the emails were deleted in the fall of 2014, and the subpoena didn’t arrive until March 2015.
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Gee, what a coincidence. Hillary knows that she's being investigated and knows the law better than anybody and has close contacts with the FBI. She finds out that they are taking the initial steps to serve her with a subpoena in late 2014 AND DELETES ALL THE EVIDENCE. Then, when the subpoena is served several months later it's........oh dang I had no idea this was coming or else I would have saved those emails.
And the entire MSM bought that one and referred to it as another Republican conspiracy theory.
This time, with no laws violated, no criminal investigation, a successful operation but a1 huge NON costly blunder (not 17,000) that is serving as a lesson to fix it has received more negative news in 1 week than Hillary got in 2 years. from doing something several orders of magnitude worse.
That's the MSM for ya!
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Again, I apologize to readers for letting them suck me into their dishonest reporting sewer earlier this week.
Fox is the worst of all but not this time!
The Ds and MSM have an additional moral and honestly problem too(that doesn't matter).
In insisting that this was classified information (which I agree on) they are stating that the Atlantic reporter committed a serious felony by publishing it which carries up to a 10 year sentence in prison if convicted.
You can't have it both ways.
Even if it was NOT classified, by most legal standards, lack of permission by anybody in the conversation made his publishing the contents of the very private discussion illegal.
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This assessment by me has 0 to do with my political affiliation because I don't have one. I've spent many hours this week gathering as much information and facts as possible (the MSM monopolized most of it with their greatly distorted spin and censorship of contrasting facts).
Sincerely practicing the scientific method but applying it to the political world. Perseverance yielded additional information with objective, authentic facts to assist in better discernment today.
Will we ever find out just how one of the most biased, leftist radicals, and Trump haters was the one person in the universe who some one attached to this conversation. That one sentence right there should make every leftist radical in this country be thankful that idiots like Brennan and the other "national security experts" {wow that is rich} have had their security clearance revoked.
There are so many x gov officials running around with security clearance its silly and dangerous. After their treasonous display the last few years it should be real obvious. And yes Obama and Hillary lead the list.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4BlscamNk0 this video shows how the radicals take control and how that cancer eventually is a monopoly of speech and thought