For those still unaware:
The column labeled “Tariffs Charged to the USA” for each country in the first image below is not really that. It actually is the US trade deficit divided by the imports into US (for each country based on 2024).
Example: China in 2024 imported (in $billions) 144 from US (a good portion being farm products) and exported 439 to the US.
Those came from here:
So, 439 - 144 = 295 trade deficit in 2024
295 / 439 = 67%
That’s why the table has 67% for China. It isn’t because China charged a 67% avg tariff on what it imported from the US in 2024 as those were actually only a small fraction of 67%.
How much were the actual 2024 Chinese tariffs on US goods? To give a good feel for this: Crops like soybeans, corn, and wheat comprise the largest category of exports to China. The US was considered a “most favored nation” in 2024. Thus, per the following table, China’s tariff to the US on soybeans was only 3% and on in-quota corn/wheat was only 1%. Granted, these did increase significantly as retaliatory tariffs to Trump’s tariffs last month. Soybean tariffs increased by 10% to 13% and in-quota corn/wheat increased by 15% to 16%. But even those were still way below 67%.
This table came from here:
https://think.ing.com/articles/us-soybeans-a-big-loser-amid-rising-trade-tension060325/
Thus the reciprocal tariff in the top image’s table of 34% on China is actually not a discount and is really much higher than even the increased (early March) tariffs from China on the US.
Thanks, Larry!
I actually first posted on this in the morning and deleted it because I wasn't able to spend as much time on the post.
I'll copy the other one from the trading forum.
Most of the so called "abuse" is simply a trade imbalance caused by many to most of our trading partners not needing to pay their employees the huge labor wages that include wonderful benefits that us Americans demand.
In addition, the cost for many parts and raw materials may be cheaper. As a result, their production costs are MUCH lower and they can sell products MUCH cheaper than the same products that we sell.
Why isn't Trump telling the truth about that?
Instead, he uses fairy tale tariffs on us with deranged math and manufactured Trump explanations to justify actions that destroy free trade and punish everybody.
When I first saw his tariff numbers, I thought it was somebody that had doctored the image to make a joke.
This is no joke!
There is no fixing the trade imbalance. It exists because of the difference between poor countries and rich countries. Unless we want to become a poor country and work for a fraction of what our current high wages are........it's one of the fundamental differences that allows other countries to produce products cheaper than us.
It may seem like a penalty but its just a fundamental, authentic dynamic that defines the natural differences in the global economies. It's a consequence of us being a rich country(that can afford to pay more for the same reason that things we make COST MORE which will always cause the trade imbalances that Trump is trying to wipe out with dysfunctional tariffs.
We might as well call them "poor country taxes" that we impose on other countries, penalizing many of them for being more efficient and cost effective, while penalizing OUR consumers by that same amount and speculating that it will cause our production to go up even more than the penalty............while we still pay the same cost of labor and materials to manufacture products here.
It very likely to backfire badly by stifling free trade and REDUCING our exports when other countries respond with REAL tariffs, not the fake ones that Trump has manufactured. At the same time, it WILL cause Americans to pay more for everything that we import. That's a ton of stuff.
This could end up being pretty bad.
One legit way to make things better is to reduce the cost of our producing things in this country.
People will never accept lower wages but reducing energy costs can help a great deal.
Trump thinks that manufacturing companies around the world will come here now. One of the flaws in that thinking is that it takes years to plan, build and ramp up to production. Another one is that he didn't solve the fundamental problem...........it costs more to produce everything in the United States.
What's more likely is they will continue to use countries with lower production costs and not want to lose that most important benefit, while waiting for these tariffs to backfire after punishing Americans, who elect a sane president that reverses the tariffs.
Sadly, there will be permanent damage at that point.
This is just more evidence that President Trump is mentally ill with delusions of grandeur ism. He thinks he can take over Greenland, the Panama Canal. Kick out Palestinians from Gaza, then rebuild it and invited in people HE wants to live there.
At least he's doing one thing right in trying to end the war in Ukraine which was the only reason that I voted for anybody in the last presidential election.
Also withdrawing from the fraudulent fake Climate Accord and on a path to reverse the absurd ruling by the EPA, "the endangerment finding in 2009" that the beneficial gas, CO2 is pollution.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-reciprocal-tariff-math-explained-2054743
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ts5wJ6OfzA
A User’s Guide to Restructuring the Global Trading System
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-issues-risk-alert-tourists-travelling-us-2025-04-09/
Previous thread/posts:
Hands off protesting
Started by metmike - April 5, 2025, 10:34 p.m.
President Donald Trump attacked Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell on Thursday for not cutting interest rates and said he could fire him if he wanted to, renewing a threat from his first term that could cause a major legal showdown over the issue of the central bank’s long-standing political independence.
“If I want him out, he’ll be out of there real fast, believe me,” Trump said in the Oval Office while taking questions from reporters during a visit with Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni. “I’m not happy with him.”
At a November news conference, Powell indicated he would not step down if Trump asked him to resign and, in remarks Wednesday, made clear that “our independence is a matter of law.” He added: “We’re not removable except for cause…”
Powell said Wednesday that the Fed will base its decisions solely on what’s best for all Americans.
“That’s the only thing we’re ever going to do,” Powell said. “We’re never going to be influenced by any political pressure.”
With the economy weakening because of Trump’s moves, the president appears to be looking to pin the blame on Powell.
Thanks, Larry!
Trump has completely blown his credibility on running the economy with me.
His tariffs scheme is the biggest economic blunder that I know of for a president in our country's history.
There might be others that I'm unaware of but this one is still near the top of the Hall of Shame.
Removing Powell would be a big mistake too. I don't have an opinion of Powell but, for sure he's much better than Trump at making good decisions for our economy. Anybody is and Powell, at least has some expertise in this field and understands key economic principles. Trump comes up with wacko schemes and thinks the world will bow to his omnipotence and it will make American great. Seriously, his pathological thinking (delusions of grandeur) is convincing him that he is infallible and as the most powerful person in the world (which is true) has no limits.
If he replaces Powell with a person that Trump turns into a puppet that follows what Trump wants, its likely to do more harm than good.
A group of top economists is circulating a letter that says Trump's tariffs have 'no basis in economic reality'
+++++++++++++++++++++
I explained why this can never work from the get go. Trump thinks he can violate Global Economics 101 with his delusional omnipotence and fake tariffs decree.
Previous threads:
Trump backs down
28 responses |
Started by metmike - April 9, 2025, 2:17 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/111077/
Liberation Day
39 responses |
Started by mikempt - April 2, 2025, 8:19 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110853/#110937
Hands off protesting
19 responses |
Started by metmike - April 5, 2025, 10:34 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/110958/
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hands off protesting
By metmike - April 7, 2025, 11:12 a.m.
What Trump did is clearly in violation of the Constitution but even if he had this power, what he just did shows that he's not able to connect basic, global economic laws to the authentic realities and accept them.
1. Poor countries will ALWAYS have much lower production costs(especially labor). They will make and sell things much cheaper than rich countries. They will ALWAYS have much less money to buy things, especially higher priced things from rich countries.
2. Rich countries will always make things using much higher input costs (especially labor) and sell them at much higher prices. They will always have MUCH MORE money to buy things, including cheaply priced things from poor countries.
3. There are other factors too. A shortage of skilled labor workers in the US. Companies need to build or retrofit facilities, purchase equipment and invest in technology to compete with the advanced manufacturing capabilities of their overseas counterparts. This level of investment is risky, particularly in a volatile global economy.
4. These irrefutable global economic laws will always cause a trade imbalance between poor and rich countries in favor of the poor countries.
5. Which, as it turns out is not always a bad thing since it helps balance the great inequities between the rich and poor countries. Rich countries because they are rich can afford to pay more, along with all the other massive material world benefits they have surrounding them FROM THEIR OWN COUNTRIES. Poor countries don't have material world diddly squat, including money. They work extremely hard for dirt cheap labor prices to generate exports to rich countries just to survive.
Trump is abusing his power, trying to make this invalid. Insanely referring to the above, indisputable trade imbalances as "tariffs" and claiming that he will not only make them go away by decree, he will cause the manufacturing industries in the poor countries (that are there to take advantage of cheap production costs) come to the United States where we have very high production costs.
Complete lack of understanding in the most basic economic principles by Trump. Why should we give this any time to work?
Trusting in Trump is not going to make the impossible happen!
