Homeland Security
The Trump administration is also now claiming that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was not deported by mistake, as the Justice Department stated, but was “the right person sent to the right place.”
El Salvador President Nayib Bukele told reporters during a meeting with President Donald Trump on Monday that he would not return a man the Justice Department said it had mistakenly deported to his country.
"How can I return him to the United States? Like if I smuggle him into the United States?" Bukele said, sitting beside Trump in the Oval Office, when asked if he’d return Kilmar Abrego Garcia. "Of course I'm not going to do it. The question is preposterous."
Trump then turned to Bukele and said of the assembled reporters: "They'd love to have a criminal released into our country. These are sick people."
Trump also said he wants Bukele to take in as many criminals "as possible."
Garcia has never been charged criminally in the U.S. or El Salvador, according to court filings.
Justice Department officials have acknowledged that Garcia should not have been sent to El Salvador because of an immigration judge's 2019 order barring him from being sent there, and the Supreme Court has called his removal illegal and directed the administration to "facilitate" his return while being respectful of the president's authority.
In the Oval Office meeting, Secretary of State Marco Rubio said he didn’t understand “the confusion” over the order, arguing “the foreign policy of the United States is conducted by the president of the United States, not by a court, and no court in the United States has a right to conduct a foreign policy of the United States.” J
Thanks much, Larry!
Here's most of the story:
++++++++++++++++
The MSM is not being honest telling this story. I've read numerous stories now about how he was convicted of being an MS-13 gang member in 2019 because he was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat and hoodie. BULL!
They neglect to include that an informant TESTIFIED UNDER OATH that he was an MS-13 gang member and so did the police. A judge, after seeing that legit evidence RULED that he was an MS-13 gang member. The MSM wants us to believe the judge did it on just evidence of him wearing a Chicago Bulls hat. When 1 side lies so blatantly and colludes with each other on this, I can't trust them.
I honestly don't have enough overwhelming evidence to even have an opinion on this other than pointing out the MSM is intentionally misleading about this guys past.
They also fail to mention this:
In court filings, Abrego Garcia later testifies he came to the U.S. because the Barrio 18 gang, a rival of MS-13, was extorting and threatening him and his family for their pupusa business in their neighborhood in San Salvador. He says he was also pressured to join the gang.
So the evidence in 2019 convinced a judge that he was a gang member and he even admitted to being an MS-13 gang member in the past.
Why are all the MSM stories about this NOT telling us this part?
I can't trust the reporting on this story.
With regards to him stating "he was also pressured to join the gang"
I can understand why somebody might join a gang for protection from another gang.
However, are we supposed to ask gang members what the reason was for them to join the gang and use it to decide what gang members are good and which are bad?
When you're in a gang, you're in a gang. This guy was in the MS-13 gang for many years after he came to the US based on the evidence.
MS-13
Trump is losing this battle badly because the MSM won’t tell the truth or the entire story.
The evidence shows clearly that he was a member of the MS-13 gang.
He even admitted to it.
Back in 2019, he was denied bond because it was shown that he was an MS-13 member.
A short while after that a judge ruled that he could not be deported to his home country BECAUSE HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE MS-13 gang!!
As such, his attorneys claimed that rival gangs would target him and the judge agreed and ruled that BECAUSE HE WAS AN MS-13 MEMBER he should remain in the United States.
The MSM wants us to believe he wasn’t a member of this gang.
The Trump administration with legal authorization with an executive order has ruled that members of the MS-13 gang are terrorists and subject to legal deportation.
Should we allow an MS-13 gang member to remain in our country because rival gangs will target them in their own country?
The media isnt asking that question or wanting you to know that’s what the ruling was from the judge that was intended to keep him here.
No question about it. This guy was in the MS-13 gang for well over a decade.
You can't be in that gang for so long and be a good person or somebody that we want as a citizen in our country.
When I started looking more into this yesterday, I started with the assumption that this guy was innocent and its just another huge blunder by Trump and company.
The evidence(that I showed) says the complete opposite!
Release Date: April 14, 2025
Washington, D.C.— Today, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Kristi Noem set the record straight about Kilmar Abrego Garcia in light of misleading mainstream media reports.
“This was just one of those examples of an individual that is a MS-13 gang member, multiple charges and encounters with the individuals here, trafficking in his background, was found with other MS-13 gang members—very dangerous person, and what the liberal left and fake news are doing to turn him into a media darling is sickening,” said Secretary Noem.
In addition, DHS Assistant Secretary Tricia Mclaughlin reaffirmed that this MS-13 terrorist gang member is where he belongs.“I think this illegal alien is exactly where he belongs—home in El Salvador. He was in our country illegally, he is from El Salvador, was born in El Salvador, and, oh, the media forgot to mention: He is a MS-13 gang member. The media would love for you to believe that this is a media darling, that he is just a Maryland father. Osama Bin Laden was also a father, and yet, he was not a good guy, and they actually are both terrorists. He should be in this El Salvador prison, a prison for terrorists, and I hope he will remain there.
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As mentioned, Trump is LOSING this battle badly because the MSM is colluding with lies about the guy and the situation.
Should he have been given due process? I have great sympathy for other human beings, especially those less fortunate or different and court rulings.
He's in our country illegally and a member of a vicious gang. Should MS-13 gang members get special treatment when they become fathers? Only deport vicious gang members that don't have children?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13
According to the 2009 National Gang Threat Assessment, Mara Salvatrucha "is estimated to have 30,000 to 50,000 members and associate members worldwide, 8,000 to 10,000 of whom reside in the United States."[7] Other estimates assessed the total membership at around 30,000 members internationally.[47][48] Several thousand MS-13 gang members are believed to be in El Salvador’s Terrorism Confinement Center.
MS-13 is one of the largest Hispanic street gangs operating in the United States.[8] The gang has cliques in approximately ten U.S. states, with activity in at least 42 states and the District of Columbia.[2][6] Mara Salvatrucha has around 15 to 20 cliques active in Los Angeles, with the gang claiming parts of Westlake, Pico-Union, Koreatown, East Hollywood, North Hollywood, Panorama City and Van Nuys as its territory.[2][23] In New York, MS-13 is based primarily in the Woodhaven, Jamaica, Flushing and Rockaway areas of Queens, as well as on Long Island, according to one 2008 report.[15] The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) reported in 2008 that the highest threat from Mara Salvatrucha was in the Western and Northeastern U.S., coinciding with elevated Salvadoran immigrant populations in those areas. MS-13 activity in the Southeast was increasing at the time due to an influx of gang members.[6] In early 2018, the district attorney for Nassau County, New York, stated that an investigation had "uncovered a structured network of MS-13 operations in New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, Texas, from within a Mississippi prison cell, and in countries around the globe including Mexico, Colombia, Korea, France, Australia, Peru, Egypt, Ecuador and Cuba."
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By far, the saddest thing of all is the MSM turning an MS-13 gang member for over a decade, illegally in our country into a victim and martyr. This is really SICK stuff to target Trump!
I have always been for increasing LEGAL immigration in our country. There are some really good, hard working people(the vast majority of them) that would make positive contributions to make our country better. Biden/Harris did it the exact WRONG way and messed it up for everybody.
What we don't need are illegal immigrants that are members of the MS-13 gang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This has actually been a wake up call for me(enlightenment).
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gangs-by-state
American gangs are responsible for about 48% of violent crimes in most jurisdictions. Major cities and suburban surroundings experience most gang activities, especially gang-related violent crimes.
Gangs are known to engage in gambling, arms and drug trafficking, white-collar crimes like fraud, identity theft, counterfeiting, and nontraditional prostitution and human trafficking activities. Nowadays, gangs are participating in more nontraditional crimes like mortgage fraud and identity theft. These new nontraditional crimes create lower visibility and higher profitability. Moreover, gang members are more likely to be involved or arrested for alcohol and drug abuse than non-gang members.
An official website of the United States government. Here's how you know
https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/violent-crime/gangs
The NGIC integrates gang intelligence from across federal, state, and local law enforcement on the growth, migration, criminal activity, and association of gangs that pose a significant threat to the U.S. It supports law enforcement by sharing timely and accurate information and by providing intelligence analysis.
NGIC identifies those gangs that pose the greatest danger to our communities and targets them with investigative resources and the same federal racketeering statutes, as well as intelligence and investigative techniques, that have been used to attack organized crime.
The Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) and 18th Street gangs continue to expand their influence in the United States. FBI investigations reveal these transnational gangs are present in almost every state and continue to grow their memberships, now targeting younger recruits more than ever before. To counteract this growth, the Transnational Anti-Gang (TAG) Task Force initiative was established. TAG Task Forces are currently located in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras.
The TAG Task Force program’s mission and focus is to investigate, disrupt, and dismantle transnational gangs in these three Central American countries, as well as to collect and disseminate intelligence to support related U.S.-based investigations. TAG Task Forces collaborate with host nation agencies to investigate gangs at the transnational level, including by identifying members and groups, or cliques, along with their areas of operation and their leadership structure.
Each TAG Task Force is staffed with FBI personnel and vetted law enforcement officers from the Policía Nacional Civil (PNC) of their respective countries. TAG Task Forces annually train officers in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras on gang-related issues, as well as conduct officer exchanges with FBI field offices to facilitate intelligence-sharing and best practices. In addition to providing training and guidance to PNC officers, FBI personnel assigned to TAG Task Forces also work collaboratively on national and international investigations targeting the Ms-13 and 18th Street gangs.
While I dislike this particular source and don't find them credible much of the time..... when they are right........they are right.
Sometimes 1 side IS actually right and the other side IS actually wrong.
On this topic, reading and believing MSM, left leaning stories just makes you dumber about the legit facts.
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/pj-media-media-bias
Mike said:
He says he was also pressured to join the gang.
So the evidence in 2019 convinced a judge that he was a gang member and he even admitted to being an MS-13 gang member in the past.
——————————
Hey Mike,
Regarding what you underlined above, that doesn’t mean he admitted joining a gang. It means just what it said. He said he was pressured to join it, not that he actually joined it.
Trump administration officials and Bukele said Abrego Garcia would not be returned to the US, four days after the US Supreme Court ruled that the Trump administration must facilitate Abrego Garcia’s return.
The Justice Department called Abrego Garcia’s deportation an “oversight” and “an administrative error” in a court filing.
That’s what Attorney General Pam Bondi claimed. “In 2019, two courts, an immigration court and an appellate immigration court, ruled that (Abrego Garcia) was a member of MS-13,” she said at the White House.
This needs context.
In immigration bond hearings, detainees have the burden of proof to show they are neither a flight risk nor a danger to the community. Abrego Garcia “failed to meet his burden to show that he was not a danger,” Bier said. That’s not the same as the government proving affirmatively that he was an MS-13 member.
Abrego Garcia later received an immigration protection called withholding of removal.
“The Trump administration did not appeal these determinations or the granting of withholding of removal,” Bier said. “So at that time, it did not consider him a threat and no new evidence has been presented since then.”
Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, a lawyer for Abrego Garcia, said his client has “never been convicted of any crime, gang-related or otherwise”. Neither of the immigration court proceedings constitute a conviction, because they were not trials.
…the US government “would have been required under law to reopen his immigration court proceedings and prove to the judge that he was a member of MS-13 and therefore no longer eligible for withholding”.
“The government certainly could have sought to prove that (Abrego Garcia) was not eligible for any form of immigration relief, but it did not do so,” Bier said.
There is no evidence that Abrego Garcia is a terrorist. It’s unproven that Abrego Garcia is a member of MS-13 and therefore a terrorist after the gang’s foreign terrorist designation.
Yes, according to (Stephen) Miller.
But that is misleading. On April 10, the Supreme Court ruled, in an unsigned order, that the US government had to “‘facilitate’ Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador”.
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So, the Trump Admin will need to get busy due to the error and show that it’s facilitating Garcia’s return. Otherwise, they’re violating a 9-0 Supreme Court order (constitutional crisis) and that would be setting a very dangerous precedent.
Can you imagine anyone being deported by mistake, the Pres. being ordered by the Supreme Court to facilitate getting him back, and him not trying? Scary times, folks! The quasi-dictator is out of control.
There is no turning back if US noncitizens and even citizens are allowed to be disappeared illegally for basically any reason the administration makes up with no due process available to them. Trump continues to show me why he’s by a wide margin the worst Pres of my lifetime at the very least and a danger to our freedom who isn’t the least bit fit to be Pres.
Thanks, Larry!
1. 2 courts RULED that he was a member of the violent MS-13 gang in 2019.
The first legal ruling by a judge, that he was an MS-13 gang member was based on the evidence shown in court and led to his bond being revoked because he was a danger to the community. It was also used in a ruling that was justification for him to be deported. A judge ruled in 2019 that he was an illegal immigrant and should be deported back to ElSalvador.Then, his defense attorney's got the deportation ruling blocked by an immigration judge based on the fact that BECAUSE HE WAS AN MS-13 gang member, sending him back to El Salvador would put his life at risk from rival gangs.
How ironic that a judge in 2019 ruled that he could not be deported to El Salvador because he was a member of MS-13. ……but could be deported to any other country that would take him. That was the source of the so called administrative error, when they deported him to El Salvador in 2025.
2. Earlier this year, President Trump declared an executive order that MS-13 gang members are terrorists and they are subject to immediate deportation. This trumps the previous court order that applied to the protection that Garcia received because of being an MS-13 gang member that would be in harms way from other gangs in El Salvador. This is what the Supreme Court said too. There is a question of whether he should have had hearings before being deported but the bottom line is he's a proven (and previously admitted) MS-13 gang member which makes him a terrorist in our country that has no rights.
3. "Hey Mike,
Regarding what you underlined above, that doesn’t mean he admitted joining a gang. It means just what it said. He said he was pressured to join it, not that he actually joined it."
Instead of spinning it to mean what we want it to mean, let's actually use critical thinking to determine what it REALLY means.
If somebody is accused of a crime they didn't do, the response is to deny it and give reasons/evidence for WHY THEY DIDN'T DO IT.
That was NOT his response at all here. His response was: "he was also pressured to join the gang"
This is/was the response of a person justifying why they did what they are/were accused of doing(and the evidence in 2 separate courts, later on showed that he did). It's an admission of being in the MS-13 gang, with an excuse for why he had to do it. I actually understand how this would happen to people like him. Despite my empathy and understanding and my strong desire for the United Stated to increase legal immigration, I don't want illegal immigrants that are MS-13 gang members in our country. I'm not referring to THEORIZED or SPECULATED or FALSELY ACCUSED MS-13 gang members. I mean REAL, previously proven and admitted MS-13 gang members like this guy.
+++++++++++++++++
The MSM is doing an amazing job at lying about the facts and putting on this spin that has convinced people that this poor guy is a victim and never a member of the MS-13 gang......just an administrative error.
The error was that they should have sent him to any other country except El Salvador because the judge ruled in 2019 that he COULD BE DEPORTED for being an MS-13 gang member but just not to El Salvador BECAUSE HE WAS A MS-13 gang member That would be a target from other gangs for being a MS-13 gang member in El Salvador.
Insanely, we have tens of millions of people outraged and elevating a person that was an MS-13 gang member for over a decade in our country because the MSM has completely twisted the facts to come up with their own manufactured story about the guy to turn him into a celebrity and role model.
The sheeple, that want to believe it because Trump is on the other side have parted ways with the ability to use critical thinking, which admittedly is a tough challenge in this case because the entire MSM has colluded on this false narrative and censored the authentic facts.
The Outer Limits (1995) Intro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dzxGlcErUo
This is not at all like the George Floyd case, where Floyd was a dirt bag with a long rap sheet, turned into a hero.
Floyd REALLY WAS A VICTIM and deserved to be elevated as a symbol of the basic rights that all citizens have in the United States. He was a legit symbol that represented the fight against racism that still exists and the fight against rogue cops, profiling and targeting black men in this country.
Even dirt bags.
A bad cop killed him for that. This was a horrible injustice.
1. Garcia was an illegal immigrant that was supposed to be deported in 2019. He doesn’t have the rights of US citizens.
2. Garcia was a member of the violent gang, MS-13. 2 courts found that to be the case and he admitted it.
3. In 2025, President trump passed an executive order that legally designated gang members of MS-13 as terrorists. As such, they can immediately be deported.
Garcia suffered the legal consequences of being an illegal immigrant in our country AND in addition for being in the MS-13 gang.
What people are overlooking too is that NOT being in MS-13 gangs still doesn’t give illegal immigrants the right to live here Or the full rights of US citizens.
++++++++
Show me legit, powerful evidence that this man was doing things to make our country better and I’ll completely change my mind.
Being a dad is only evidence that he had sex.
A picture of a good looking guy smiling that the MSM uses tells us about the 5 seconds of his life that were used to take that picture.
One of the biggest mess ups here is that he wasn’t deported to another country than El Salvador as the courts ruled in 2019. He’s lucky to have stayed here for an extra 6 years, under the radar until now.
https://www.newsweek.com/chris-van-hollen-el-salvador-kilmar-abrego-garcia-2060516
Abrego Garcia's case has faced mounting scrutiny after the White House repeatedly admitted that his transfer to a notorious mega-prison in El Salvador was the result of an "administrative error."
++++++++++
We've clearly established that the "administrative error" was that he should have been deported to any country other than El Salvador because the judge in 2019 ruled that since he's a member of the MS-13 gang, he would be targeted by rival gangs in El Salvador. But the despicable MSM continues to mislead us with the dishonest political spin. As if this was just a great US citizen and father with no ties to the MS-13 gang and Trump just messed up and sent him to El Salvador for no reason.
Trump messes up all the time and I call him out all the time for it. This time, the evidence vindicates his people.
Now we have a politician that wants to use this for his political gain. Look everybody, I care about the MS-13 gang member and want him back in our country so I'm going over there myself.
While he's there, maybe he can pick up a few more MS-13 gang members and bring them here
I have a much better idea for the Maryland senator that would actually serve his constituents in that state. Can you guess what it might be???
December 5, 2023
BALTIMORE (WJZ) — Hundreds of MS-13 gang members are currently active in Maryland. The gang is known for its brutality; using machetes to behead vulnerable, young victims.
While they’ve been mostly active in D.C. suburbs, MS-13 is increasingly spreading into the Baltimore area.
Last July, MS-13 gang members stalked a man in Towson. Ten people were charged with attacking Daniel Cuellar with a machete, brazenly killing him on Loch Raven Boulevard where a small memorial still sits.
In Anne Arundel County, Jenni Rivera Lopez was strangled. Her body was dismembered with machetes and buried in a shallow grave.
Jose Hernandez Portillo was also murdered by MS-13. His body was found in Quiet Waters Park in Annapolis.
Marlon Cruz-Flores is serving a 38-year sentence for plotting to kill a cab driver on Annapolis Neck Road. The victim survived after being ambushed with machetes. Several of his fingers, however, were cut off.
The gang is also recruiting in area schools. A 15-year-old Annapolis High School student was beaten for refusing to join MS-13.
The mother of Alexandra Reyes, a teenager from Montgomery County murdered by the gang, had this warning.
“In their schools, check their friends because they’re inside.” Reyes’ mother said. “She was so sweet. She trusted in everyone and that, that was her problem.”
One of her daughter’s killers was Venus Romero Iraheta.
The gang is so pervasive, Maryland became the first state to set up a tipline where people can report activity and tipsters can remain anonymous. “We want people who are being victimized by the gang to know and understand that [it] can end,” US Attorney Robert Hur said.
Gathering intelligence is hard because many of MS-13’s targets are immigrants in the U.S. illegally—and fear police.
Hellgren: “Why Maryland?”
Gibson: “The community is really not safe whenever you have MS-13 members walking free among us,”
Despite the difficulty, federal authorities are determined to eradicate this violent threat in Maryland.
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And the MSM is taking a stand against deporting people like this???
Brings to mind Trump's term several years ago: "The enemy of the people"
Homeland SecurityKilmar Abrego Garcia had a history of violence and was not the upstanding “Maryland Man” the media has portrayed him as. According to court filings, Garcia’s wife sought a domestic violence restraining order against him, claiming he punched, scratched, and ripped off her shirt, among other harm. This MS-13 gang member is not a sympathetic figure.
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661.8K Views
Online court records out of Prince George's County show a district court judge granted Vasquez an interim and temporary restraining order, requiring Abrego-Garcia to surrender any firearms and vacate the couple's residence.
Vasquez no showed a final hearing that June, prompting the case to be dismissed.
"Kilmar Abrego-Garcia had a history of violence and was not the upstanding “Maryland Man” the media has portrayed him as," DHS wrote on X. "According to court filings, Garcia’s wife sought a domestic violence restraining order against him, claiming he punched, scratched, and ripped off her shirt, among other harm. This MS-13 gang member is not a sympathetic figure."
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How many men here have punched, scratched and ripped off the shirt of their wife?
To the point where you were kicked out of the house and your wife was granted a restraining order to be protected from you!!!! That would only have happened if he was a REPEAT OFFENDER.
There is no way that it was just an isolated incident. Just the only time she decided to call the cops on him. Keep in mind, people like this are extremely unlikely to call the cops, so this likely was getting way out of control.
She never showed up at the final hearing and that's why the charges were dropped.
+++++++++++
Though I made the case earlier, as stated I will change my mind if additional evidence shows up that indicates he was doing positive things for his family and to make the world around him better.
This powerful evidence is closing that window of giving this issue any doubts.
Mike said, “Garcia was a member of the violent gang, MS-13. 2 courts found that to be the case and he admitted it.”
———————
Hey Mike,
I believe you’re confused by the last line of the following paragraph that we’ve been debating from the USA Today article:
In court filings, Abrego Garcia later testifies he came to the U.S. because the Barrio 18 gang, a rival of MS-13, was extorting and threatening him and his family for their pupusa business in their neighborhood in San Salvador. He says he was also pressured to join the gang.
Garcia isn’t referring to MS-13. He’s actually referring to MS-13’s rival gang, Barrio 18. Back when he was still in El Salvador, Barrio18 was pressuring him to join them, which there’s no evidence of him ever doing. Instead, that pressure to join Barrio18 was an impetus for his family to send him to the US.
Do you see what I’m saying?
In case you’re still confused, check this out from the link below:
After Cesar (his brother) left, the gang began trying to recruit Kilmar. Members of Barrio 18 entered the family’s home and threatened to kill Kilmar unless “rent” was paid or Kilmar was turned over to the gang. The family paid the money.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know
To summarize, “He says he was also pressured to join the gang” is neither a reference to MS-13 nor him admitting joining either gang.
Larry,
Actually, now I see exactly what you're stating and will completely drop this particular statement by him being evidence of anything.
Appreciate you persisting on something that your interpretation is more correct on and my assumption was probably wrong about.
Thanks!
I think this is pretty close to an all time low for the Ds and MSM.
Is this the best person that they can rally behind to oppose a Donald Trump order?
An illegal immigrant that was a member of the vicious MS-13 gang for a decade that was supposed to be deported to his home country in 2019 but his attorneys got a judge to block the order because HE IS A MEMBER OF THE MS-13 gang and would be a target in El Salvador by opposing gangs.
It's true. He would be a target in El Salvador. So should we keep all the illegal immigrant, MS-13 gang members in the United States to PROTECT THEM? So they can be the predators here and target Americans?
Seriously?
Yeah, I know the MSM has censored this truth and instead colluded to replace it with a manufactured reality. And done a great job of convincing most people of the manufactured reality.
That this illegal immigrant and MS-13 gang member is the poor victim OF DONALD TRUMP and not the American's that his gang targets in the United States.
I've read many of the comments on social media. People are having their intelligence stolen by the MSM.
Not that this is new. We've heard the "save the planet" from a fake climate crisis caused by the increase in CO2 false narrative for 3 decades now........even as the planet greens up from a beneficial gas and most life would prefer double the current CO2 and temperatures a bit warmer yet (cold still kills more than heat).
Sadly, tens of millions of people believe the MSM rubbish and don't appreciate the current climate OPTIMUM! When they all collude on the same thing (censor evidence that shows they are wrong) and keep repeating it as the main news gatekeepers, why wouldn't people believe it?
The agenda with this guy is completely different though(oppose Trump and make him look bad) but the methodology is very similar.
When almost every story online and on tv says the same thing and Americans in 2025 all go to their favorite sources to be told the news they want to hear.........its the perfect set up to brainwash people with propaganda, false narratives and intentionally dishonest, politically biased reporting.
A big part of why Donald Trump was elected last November was because of the Biden/Harris illegal immigrant/border crisis.
Getting rid of MS-13 gang members who are illegal immigrants in our country, should be a #1 priority. This guy checks BOTH of those boxes!
It's insanity to be attacking Trump for doing it.
Trump has plenty of flaws...........I point them out all the time. However, so far, with regards to THIS issue he's doing exactly what he was elected to do.
Previous thread with relevant points:
Welcome to Springfield, OH
24 responses |
Started by metmike - Sept. 14, 2024, 8:04 a.m.
By
Updated April 16, 2025, 8:54 p.m. ET
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Prince George's County Police Department
Gang Field Interview Sheet
https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline
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So he hangs out with MS-13 gang members.
He wears the MS-13 dress apparel.
He has an MS-13 gang rank and a gang name.
He's from El Salvador and has been living illegally in the United States for 7 years before this incident (not showing up for any court dates for traffic violations in the past).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test
The duck test is a frequently cited colloquial example of abductive reasoning.
Its usual expression is: If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
The test implies that a person can identify an unknown subject by observing that subject's habitual characteristics. It is sometimes used to counter abstract arguments that something might not be what it appears to be.
++++++++++++
The media wants you to believe that the duck test is invalid here. This is really a swam that just dresses like a duck, hangs out with ducks and has a ducks name!
https://www.animalwised.com/differences-between-a-swan-vs-goose-vs-duck-3815.html
Hey Mike,
1. The federal govt has still not presented evidence to the district court proving he’s been in any gang:
Whatever the merits of the 2019
determination of the immigration Judge "" regarding Abreco Garcia's connection to
MS-13, the Govemment presented "no evidence" to the district court to "connect
Abrego Garcia to MS-13 or any other criminal organization. * Dist Ct. Op. at 22 n. 19: sec
to present them before this Court.). Indeed, such a fact cannot be gleaned from this record,
which shows that Abrego Garcia has no criminal history, in this country or anywhere else.
https://twitter.com/appodlachia/status/1912652803333595597/photo/1
2. The Supreme Court ordered on a 9-0 vote the Trump Admin to facilitate his return to the US. If he doesn’t comply, that would be a violation. Why aren’t you talking about this potential abuse of power by this pseudo-dictator?
3. Regarding the Gang Field Interview Sheet (GFIS), the person who claimed that he was a gang member is a cop who had a confidential source (heresay). The cop was later put on leave because he was passing confidential info to his hooker and then was fired when he was convicted. Thus, the reliability of this source is highly questionable.
4. He’s not been convicted of a crime.
5. No, he’s not shown himself to have been a model noncitizen, but that’s irrelevant to items 1-4 above.
Thanks Larry,
Not true on there being no evidence. You must not have read the report. 2 judges used that evidence to rule that he was a member of the MS-13 gang.
Not true that it only came from a cop (who you've decided not to believe because that cop had 1 violation on the job completely UNRELATED to this case).
An expert on MS-13 gangs and informant testified that he was a member, along with his gang name and gang rank. Why would they make that up???
Get creative and give a speculative guess on why the informant, cop and judges all agreed that he was a member of the MS-13 gang because they were all unfairly targeting him for some unknown reason. Instead of using critical thinking and viewing the objective evidence.
Why aren’t you talking about this potential abuse of power by this pseudo-dictator?
Larry,
That's what THE MEDIA wants it to be about. I did mention that one time and that is a good point but am focusing on the authentic evidence and MSMs yellow journalism . This is much more than Donald Trump on trial which is what the media and Ds want it to be about and not a person that should not be in this country (even if it wasn't already shown that he's a member of the MS-13 gang).
Since you are disappointed that I'm not discussing this the way that you would like, then let me respond in kind about the parts of this discussion that I wish YOU would acknowledge:
Why aren't YOU discussing the restraining order put on him to protect his wife, after he beat her?
Why aren't YOU discussing the informant identifying him as a gang member, including his gang rank and gang name. Why would they make all that stuff up?
Why aren't YOU discussing him hanging out with fellow gang members and wearing their dress code?
Why aren't YOU discussing the decisions from 2 judges that ruled that he was a member of MS-13?
You already mentioned the cop that YOU won't believe because they had another unrelated infraction and used evidence to testify to something that you don't want to believe.
You and the MSM want this to be about Trump. The best questions to you Larry are this?
Do you think that we should allow all illegal immigrants in this country with ZERO consequences?
How about illegal immigrants in this country that are members of the MS-13 gang?
2 judges already ruled that he is both of those things and he should have been deported 6 years ago but he had a good attorney and ironically the attorney convinced the 2nd judge, that because he's a member of the MS-13 gang, he would be a target from opposing gangs in El Salvador. ......and that kept him here.
The judge did not need to be convinced that he was a member of MS-13 because that was already proven to prevent him from getting bond. So the judge KNEW THAT already and it actually saved him from being deported in 2019.
However, it's 2025 and Trump made an executive order that declared MS-13 gang members illegally in our country to be terrorists that are to be deported. That's the NEW VALID law that wasn't there in 2019, when it saved him from being deported.
Do you think that MS-13 gang members should not have been declared terrorists? What would you do with them?
If 2 judges already ruled this guy to be an MS-13 gang member, does that mean that 3 judges need to rule this?
Do you think that this guy is a good person and we need to populate our country with more people like this?
++++++++++++++++
If Trump brought him back, what do you think would happen?
That a court will rule its ok to be an illegal immigrant with no consequences and ignore the previous evidence showing him to be a MS-13 member?
Or will they just reaffirm what the evidence shows and THEN send him back to El Salvador or will they send him to a different country because the 2nd judge said that he just can't go to El Salvador because of the threat to him from rival gangs in that 1 country and fix the mistake they made originally, when he SHOULD HAVE been deported but just not to El Salvador.
Do you think that there are thousands of more important things that we could be discussing productively and millions of better needy/deserving people than this to help out in this world?
With regards to what Trump is doing related to immigration.
What is he doing that he didn’t say he would ido on immigration? This is a big reason that people elected president trump in November.
Is this especially harsh treatment for Garcia?
Maybe? Part of me feels bad for the guy because he’s a human being.
Most of me knows that criminals have to face oconsequences if they get caught.a%
im talking just about living here illegally.
He should have been deported in 2019 for just that. I was trying to think about his wife and kids since then and soften my position……then I read about the restraining order.
Odds are extremely high that there were numerous previous incidents before she called the cops. And that their kids were having to witness it.
she had 2 other kids from a different man that were plenty old enough to be traumatized by their mom getting beat up by the new husband.
Maybe it’s better to have no dad instead,of having one that beats up your mom and belongs to the MS-13 gang.
Hey Mike and others,
As was clearly explained last night on TV for those not understanding, the goal of the district court is for Garcia to be returned to the US for due process, not to just set him free. The federal govt will then have an opportunity to present its case to prove in court that Garcia is actually an MS-13 gang member. If they do, then he could legally be deported. If not, he would be able to stay in the US.
The main issue here is that he was deported by the Trump Admin without due process despite in 2019 having been given a protective order keeping him from being deported back to El Salvador. They even previously had admitted that his deportation was a mistake.
Thanks, Larry!
This summary does a better job than most MSM stories recently in describing the complicated situation.
I FORGOT TO COPY THE ARTICLE FROM THE HILL AND WILL DO THAT BACK ON MY COMPUTER IN A FEW HOURS.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5252884-deportation-legal-battle/
It's very likely that if Garcia were ever brought back here, he would almost immediately be deported to A DIFFERENT COUNTRY.
The focus of all this hoopla is a court order in 2019 that blocked his deportation then but only from going to El Salvadore because as a member of MS-13, he would be a target of rival gangs IN EL SALVADORE.
This was the source of the administrative error by the Trump administration.
This false narrative by the MSM that he's a great guy and was deported by mistake is nonsense.
A court ruled that he SHOULD HAVE been deported in 2019 because he is an illegal immigrant. Another court ruled that he can't be deported TO EL SAVADORE but its ok to deport him to any other country in the world.
He's not a good guy and the court ruled back then that he was a member of MS-13 gang.
+++++++++
SINCE earlier this year, thanks to a legal executive order, being a member of the MS-13 gang means that you are a terrorist that can be deported immediately. The last court encounter with Garcia determined that he was an MS-13 member, which makes him a terrorist.
He also is NOT a citizen of the United States.
So the question is, what rights does a person who is a terrorist and illegal immigrant get in the United States?
Some legal experts, even human rights advocates.argue that his rights are not the same as for a US citizen that is not a terrorist.
https://www.apa.org/pubs/highlights/spotlight/issue-117
Violations of suspected terrorists' procedural and physical rights — for example, denial of Miranda rights and unnecessary use of force by law enforcement — are often viewed as justified on utilitarian grounds related to heightened threat to public safety. That is, both laypeople and law enforcement tend to argue that rights violations justifiably serve the greater good of protecting the public against terrorism.
+++++++++++++++
This pertains to a different kind of terrorist but its a group for the humane treatment of terrorists from foreign countries, which Garcia is(whether people like it or not).
Key Elements of an Effective,
Humane, and Sustainable
Approach to Detaining and
Prosecuting Terrorism Suspects:
https://humanrightsfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Detention-Policy-Issue-Brief.pdf
Maximize use of the federal court system
Hold terrorism suspects and individuals
convicted of terrorism-related crimes in
federal prisons.
Transfer suspects to foreign ally custody
where appropriate and consistent with non-
refoulement legal obligations.
Conduct lawful, humane interrogations of
terrorism suspects, including providing the
International Committee of the Red Cross
access to suspects detained in an armed
conflict.
++++++++++++++++
Regardless of how the dishonest MSM wants to spin it a court already ruled that Garcia should be deported and another court ruled he should still be deported but just not to El Salvador so there's nothing that can make that go away, especially since their ruling of him being a MS-13 gang member, also makes him a terrorist in 2025.
Trump had nothing to do with those prior rulings!
It's insane that millions of people are rooting for this guy to be treated like he's a US citizen in good standing ..........and wonderful person that Trump targeted by mistake. Completely ignoring the court findings/orders, while vilifying Trump for doing exactly what he promised to do when elected.........protect US citizens from people like this.
What a place we live in! Illegal immigrants with a previous LEGAL deportation ruling and also an MS-13 gang member are the hero's and the president trying to protect us from them is the enemy.
The real enemy is the MSM (and Fox) for poisoning our brains to think this way because of their agenda opposing President Trump(or adulating Trump-Fox). They collude and have tremendous power in convincing people to believe their manufactured realities, propaganda and false narratives.
People typically use the news messengers that tell them what they want to hear/read and do searches online to find sources that support what THEY WANT TO BELIEVE.
In 2025, there are choices from both sides but the MSM massively dominates and can completely control the messages.
Mike/others,
There’s still no proof he’s been a gang member and he hasn’t been convicted of a crime. If he ever gets back to the US, it would be up to the federal govt to prove he’s been a gang member or committed a crime for him to be legally deported. Otherwise, he should be able to stay here. I don’t have high hopes he’ll ever be returned though.
The Trump admin. lost their appeal of the district court’s decision today and this is stated so beautifully:
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FOURTH CIRCUIT
The government's unwillingness to bring Abrego Garcia back "should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear," the judges wrote.
In the appeal, the DOJ argued that the Maryland court is inserting "itself into the foreign policy of the United States and has tried to dictate it from the bench," and said the depositions of government officials are "untenable."
But the appellate court slapped down that notion, calling the relief the DOJ requested "extraordinary and premature." They said that if the government conceded that Abrego Garcia was mistakenly deported, "Why then should it not make what was wrong, right?"
"It is, as we have noted, all too possible to see in this case an incipient crisis, but it may present an opportunity as well," the judges wrote. "We yet cling to the hope that it is not naïve to believe our good brethren in the Executive Branch perceive the rule of law as vital to the American ethos. This case presents their unique chance to vindicate that value and to summon the best that is within us while there is still time."
The DOJ could appeal the Fourth Circuit's decision to the Supreme Court.
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/25900477/25-1404-ruling.pdf
Judge Wilkinson is a conservative Republican appointed by Reagan, which makes this decision extra notable.
"There’s still no proof he’s been a gang member and he hasn’t been convicted of a crime"
1. In 2019, in a court he was found to have illegally entered (improper entry) the United States and sentenced to deportation to El Salvador.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
His attorneys got an immigration judge to block that deportation to El Salvador only because of the threats to him (as an MS-13 gang member) from a rival gang in El Salvador. That order is still in effect and it allows for him to be deported to any other country in the world, just not El Salvador. This was the "administration error" we constantly here about. He should have been deported to any country BUT El Salvador!
2. His marriage was hastily arranged in 2019 while he was incarcerated with ICE, obviously as a ploy to help him stay in the United States. The ceremony, literally took place with a glass window separating them.
3. You keep repeating that there no proof he's a MS-13 gang member. NOT true again. A cop on the gang task force (that you won't believe) testified that he's a gang member. A RELIABLE gang expert informant testified that he was a member of the MS-13 gang and even had his gang street name and his rank in the MS-13 gang. That's powerful evidence that you won't believe. An unbiased judge looked at the evidence and ruled that he was an MS-13 gang member and a risk to the community and used that to deny him a bond. You don't want to believe that either. If you want to keep repeating these lies, I will keep correcting you.
4. He likely would have been convinced of domestic violence in 2021 but the victim, his wife never showed up to the final hearing so it was dropped. Gee, I wonder why? When the member of a vicious gang threatens to kill you..and you know they might carry out that threat..... its a scary thing.
That part is speculative but this isnt: A legal protective/restraining order was issued against him based on the finding that he was a serious threat to his wife...........forcing him to move out and stay at least 50 feet away from his wife. They would NOT have issued this order from a single domestic violence incident. He was a dangerous MS-13 gang member and wife beater for Pete's sake!!!
https://popcenter.asu.edu/content/witness-intimidation-0
The belief that if we can only get this guy back to the US, the justice system will save him and he will live happily ever after. That seems pretty far fetched based on the actual evidence.
The TDS people will never give weighting to this evidence, only the manufactured reality from the dishonest MSM and Ds on this topic.
Again, I'm strongly for increasing legal immigration in this country that brings in good people from other countries.
Abrego Garcia is the complete opposite of somebody like that.
Hey Mike,
1. He hasn’t been convicted of a crime.
2. I’m not saying he definitely hasn’t been in MS-13. I never have said that because he very well may have. I’m saying that the Trump admin didn’t give him due process before deporting him to present their case and prove it. He had a withholding of removal order in place. So, being deported was illegal and an abuse of executive power. If they’re sure he’s a gang member, they should have no trouble presenting their evidence of that. But they need to try to get him back first.
3. This is from the appeals court that rejected Trump admin’s appeal:
USCA4 Appeal: 25-1404 Doc: 8 Filed: 04/17/2025 Pg: 2 of 7
It is difficult in some cases to get to the very heart of the matter. But in this case, it is not hard at all. The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done.
This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.
The government asserts that Abrego Garcia is a terrorist and a member of MS-13. Perhaps, but perhaps not. Regardless, he is still entitled to due process. If the government is confident of its position, it should be assured that position will prevail in proceedings to terminate the withholding of removal order. See 8 C.F.R. § 208.24(f) (requiring that the government prove “by a preponderance of evidence” that the alien is no longer entitled to a withholding of removal). Moreover, the government has conceded that Abrego Garcia was wrongly or “mistakenly” deported. Why then should it not make what was wrong, right?
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/25900477/25-1404-ruling.pdf
Judge Wilkinson, a Reagan appointed conservative Republican, was on the panel. This isn’t the MSM or a Dem saying this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Harvie_Wilkinson_III
4. The Supreme Court already ruled 9-0 that the Trump admin. must facilitate him coming back. So far, they’ve done none of that.
Thanks,Larry!
Donald Trump's Approval Rating Over Immigration Is Tumbling - Newsweek
President Donald Trump's net approval on handling immigration has fallen drastically in the space of a few weeks, according to polls.
An April Echelon Insights survey of 1,014 likely voters found that 54 percent approve of Trump's actions on immigration, with 44 percent disapproving, giving the president a net score of plus 10 points.
A previous Echelon Insights poll of 1,007 likely voters, conducted March 10-13, found that Trump had a net approval score of plus 18 points (57 percent approve to 39 percent disapprove).
++++++++++++++
This is more evidence of my point. The effectiveness of the MSM at poisoning the minds of people with propaganda, false narratives and misleading information for their political agenda. Political activists employed as journalists using their position to promote their political agenda.
Mr. Choir boy Garcia, their latest cause was a vicious, MS-13 gang member and illegal immigrant that received a deportation ruling in 2019 that was valid and is still valid for any country except El Salvador.
Adding to his Mr. Garcia's resume, we have his stop in the state of TN in 2022 for suspected human trafficking.
His vehicle was pulled, packed with 7 people that he picked up from southern TX and was taking to Maryland. All of them could barely speak English and all of them gave the cops Garcia's address as their place of residence.
Were they MS-13 gang members? That information will come out.
There is no other explanation for this other than human trafficking. When the TN task force contacted Biden's FBI, they ordered them to just release Garcia and the 7 other people..........knowing well that this was human trafficking.
Using Kilmar Garcia as the poster boy to fight Trump's flawed immigration system was the exact WRONG choice.
They discovered the court order in 2019 that ruled he could be deported but NOT to El Salvador and that started this.
Instead of just stating the facts, they decided to use this 1 administrative error(oversight) to manufacture and build up this fictional story about Garcia the victim. Just minding his own business being a good dad and husband, never doing anything wrong and then............WHAM! Trump's people scooped him up by mistake and sent him to El Salvador without due process or any evidence that he's every done anything wrong, including no evidence that he's ever been in the vicious MS-13 gang.
Well now. They just shot themselves in the foot by using this guy to make a case to stop deporting illegal immigrants that are a danger to the people in our country.
This guy was and IS a clear danger to people he interacts with and clearly was a member of the MS-13 gang and likely still is. He is in our country illegally. He is a citizen of El Salvador. He was a horrible person to choose as their poster boy!!! 99.9% of immigrants, even illegal immigrants would have been a much better choice than this guy.
The Ds and MSM couldn't find somebody better than this to represent their cause???
So far, its been working, mostly because the MSM is doing such a good job covering up the truth and manufacturing a convincing story about a Kilmar Garcia that doesn't exist.
The truth is coming out though. If he came back to the US and had hearings, the truth would result in him being deported. Twist it any way that you want but this guy was already deported in 2019 and all Trump had to do was send him to any other country in the world.........except El Salvador. So they DID mess up but not the way the MSM and Ds want us to think.
To people that hate Trump............all those words above, might as well be in a foreign language because THEIR truths only define a world where Trump is always wrong and always bad, no matter the authentic evidence.
In every situation with XXXX vs Trump, they will always take the side of XXXX no matter how distorted they need to twist the facts to make that mentality work.
This is the quintessential example of that TDS principle playing out in real time.
Garcia has not been a model noncitizen as I said earlier. I never said he has been a good husband or dad. Whether or not he has been is irrelevant. Also, I don’t know that he hasn’t been a gang member. I never said he definitely wasn’t. But I can’t say he definitely has been. You obviously are sure he is. Regardless of what you or I think, our constitution says due process before deportation. Presumed innocent until proven guilty. He’s entitled to due process before his withholding protection can be ended. If Trump is so sure he’s a gang member, they should easily be able to prove it in court.
Even a Reagan appointed conservative Republican judge Wilkinson agreed in the appeals court decision. You keep saying Dems and MSM. Wilkinson is neither. Conservative Wilkinson said he may be a gang member but he said that needs to be proven via due process in his wonderfully written decision. The conservative leaning Supreme Court as a whole is neither D nor MSM. They voted 9-0 in favor of Trump making an effort to get him back.
The Trump admin. has to prove their case in court, period. It appears we’re never going to agree as I feel very good about my position, especially with conservative judges and obviously the Constitution backing it up. This isn’t just the MSM or Dems as you keep insisting.
To people that hate Trump............all those words above, might as well be in a foreign language because THEIR truths only define a world where Trump is always wrong and always bad, no matter the authentic evidence.
In every situation with XXXX vs Trump, they will always take the side of XXXX no matter how distorted they need to twist the facts to make that mentality work.
This is the quintessential example of that TDS principle playing out in real time.
Garcia’s entitled to due process before the withholding protection given to him during Trump I can be ended. Trump I didn’t fight it. Since Trump II is sure he’s a gang member, they should be able to prove it in court.
Conservative Reagan appointee Wilkinson said he may be a gang member but that that needs to be proven via due process in his wonderfully written decision. The conservative leaning Supreme Court as a whole is neither D nor MSM. They voted 9-0 in favor of Trump admin making an effort to get him back.
This isn’t just the MSM or Dems as you keep insisting. You can say that over and over but that doesn’t make it true. It’s also the Constitution, Wilkinson, Roberts, Barrett, Thomas, Gorsuch, Alito, and Kavanaugh among others.
It appears we’ll never agree.
All they need to do is enforce the 2019 court ruling that is still valid that he is to be deported……to any country but El Salvador.
All the evidence was already provided and proven in court. A judge has already made a definitive ruling that is still in effect.
If his lawyers want to try to overturn that ruling, based on new evidence that’s a different deal but the legality of his deportation WAS ALREADY DECIDED.
What will his lawyers use to overturn that?
Evidence that he beats his wife and she had a protective order against him?
Evidence that he was participating in a human trafficking operation?
Evidence that now, in 2025 being a member in his gang(with a rank and gang name) makes him a terrorist?
Twist it however you need to so it lines up,with how you wish and keep repeating it but those are the stone cold authentic facts.
This isn’t just the MSM or Dems as you keep insisting. You can say that over and over but that doesn’t make it true. It’s also the Constitution, Wilkinson, Roberts, Barrett, Thomas, Gorsuch, Alito, and Kavanaugh among others. That’s not twisting.
Again, nit picking an irrelevant fact,whether it’s entirely the MSM\Ds or just mostly them does not change the stone cold legal authentic facts.
That is in fact twisting.
My biggest concerns here are NOT the need to be right or defend anybody, since metmike has made more posts critical of Trump than anybody here by far.
Instead.
1. We are letting the dishonest MSM poison our thinking and steal our intelligence. One of my top priorities here is to educate people and inform them with authentic NON political truths.
2. I am strongly FOR increasing legal immigration of good people. …..which is almost all of them that enter the right way. The MSM completely messes that up by portraying this gang member and illegal immigrant as their immigrant poster boy.
Every person that is against immigration will look at these authentic facts and think “there ya go! This is exactly why I oppose all immigration!”
This is 100% counterproductive to the pro immigration cause.
3. I also don’t like it when my friends get caught up in this.
Sen. Van Hollen says Kilmar Abrego Garcia is no longer at CECOT and has been moved to another detention center where conditions are better. But still has no communication with the outside world
https://twitter.com/JonathanTamari/status/1913327773877440883?
Mike said:
“His attorneys got an immigration judge to block that deportation to El Salvador only because of the threats to him (as an MS-13 gang member) from a rival gang in El Salvador.”
—————————
Hey Mike,
“While immigration Judge David Jones in that case did not grant him asylum, he did award Abrego Garcia “withholding of removal” — barring his deportation to El Salvador. Immigration prosecutors under the first Trump administration did not appeal his ruling.
Jones’s decision was made on the basis of the determination that Abrego Garcia could be in danger if he returned to El Salvador, where the gang Barrio 18 threatened to kill him as they allegedly demanded increasing payments while extorting his mother’s pupusa business. These threats prompted the family to flee to the U.S. when Abrego Garcia was a teenager.”
The threat to Garcia upon return to El Salvador is due to threats from Barrio18, but not for the reason you gave above that I bolded. Barrio18 isn’t a threat due to Garcia being in MS-13 as you’re saying. Barrio18 is a threat to him because they allegedly demanded either Garcia join their gang (back when he was still there) or else the family keep increasing payments to them back. Garcia was sent out of the US because of these Barrio18 threats. Barrio18 was way back then a danger to Garcia, which had nothing to do with MS-13.
Thanks, Larry!
I read numerous articles that mentioned Barrio-18 was a bloody rival gang of MS-13 and which would make much more sense for him as an individual of MS-13 without protection from his US MS-13 gang to be vulnerable for targeting.
I totally understand why you don’t accept most of this stuff.
I was tempted to show 10 different MSM articles this morning that repeated the same complete rubbish that I’ve corrected here with authentic facts.
This appears to be another one that doesn’t line up with the facts in the case.
Believe what you want from the clearly biased and extremely low credibility MSM, Larry.
I'll continue to use objective facts from gathering ALL THE INFORMATION, then applying critical thinking to understand and gain discernment.
Again, I don't have a desire to protect Trump here. I gave you my motives earlier.
++++++++++++++++++++
World's Deadliest Gang War | El Salvador: MS-13 vs Barrio 18 | Free Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=882LOCcN-_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMUTzbb1Q20
++++++++++++++
We've clearly established from several sources that Garcia was a member of MS-13(yes, I know the MSM repeats just the opposite). Why WOULDN"T somebody like him, a member of MS-13 fear for his life back in El Salvadore from Barrio 18?
Why WOULDN'T a judge know this (and his attorney's) and issue an order protecting him from being deported to El Salvador because of the incredibly high chance that Barrio 18 will target him as a member of MS-13?
This was the administrative error by Trump. Sending him to the 1 country he was legally protected from being deported to because there is no similar war with his gang, MS-13 and rival gangs in other countries.
Got any more stuff to debunk?
Just to make it crystal clear what was debunked in the last post because people will continue to be influenced by complete MSM hogwash on this issue.
This latest MSM inspired spin statement in bold:
Re: El Salv. Pres. says he won’t return mistakenly deported man to US
By WxFollower - April 18, 2025, 7:19 p.m.
"Barrio18 isn’t a threat due to Garcia being in MS-13 as you’re saying".
+++++++++++++
In NEW news:
https://www.newsweek.com/supreme-court-blocks-donald-trump-deportations-alien-enemies-act-2061693
So this is supposed to limit Trump's power to deport people like this. You can bet that they are being impacted by current, rallying behind illegal immigrant, MS-13 member, human trafficker, wife beater Kilmar Garcia.
I have never had a strong position with regards to Trump's infallible power to deport illegal immigrants though you might think otherwise. There should be some restrictions.
My position is that the MSM and Ds are bald face lying about THIS PARTICULAR PERSON, Abrego Garcia. Making him out to be a choir boy, wonderful father and husband that deserves to be returned to the United States to live happily ever after.
Just flat out lying and misleading about these authentic facts below that scream out for justice...........him being deported outside of the United States!
1. Illegal Immigrant(that was already deported to anywhere but El Salvador in 2019)-proven with 100% certainty
2. Member of MS-13-proven with 99% certainty
3. Repeated wife beater that resulted in a protective restraining order on him because of his violence against her-100% certainty
4. Major player in human trafficking operation-98% certainty
This does not apply to any of the others deported because I've not investigated the facts in those cases. However, any iota of information from the MSM on this topic will be scrutinized because they continue to gush out "yellow journalism" and behave as political activists with TDS, determined to resist anything Trump and NOT do their jobs as professional journalists.
Do You Trust the Mass Media?
Started by metmike - Oct. 24, 2024, 5:56 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/108234/
Mike said:
“So this is supposed to limit Trump's power to deport people like this. You can bet that they are being impacted by current, rallying behind illegal immigrant, MS-13 member, human trafficker, wife beater Kilmar Garcia.
I have never had a strong position with regards to Trump's infallible power to deport illegal immigrants though you might think otherwise. There should be some restrictions.
My position is that the MSM and Ds are bald face lying about THIS PARTICULAR PERSON, Abrego Garcia. Making him out to be a choir boy, wonderful father and husband that deserves to be returned to the United States to live happily ever after.”
———
Hey Mike,
It seems that you continue to miss the point of all of these actions by the conservative leaning Supreme Court (and they’re not MSM nor Dem majority, which you keep ignoring) in addition to Reagan appointee Wilkinson on the 4th Circuit Appeals Ct:
The point is that Trump is supposed to allow enough time for due process as opposed to without warning deporting these folks. These judges are not saying Garcia and the others are choir boys. And they’re not saying to return him to the US and just let him free.
The main issue is once again Trump’s abuse of power that needs to be stopped. He needs to stay in his own lane. He’s acting like a pseudo-dictator who doesn’t care about the Const just as was the case with Jan 6th and not even caring about the safety of his own VP!
So finally after pages and pages the truth has appeared. Larry says Trump is a dictator. His truth so it must be. However if that is true where had Larry been for years. Was Biden a dictator when he allowed multi millions of illegals into this country. They included drug dealers, pounds and pounds of dangerous killing drugs, sex tafficers, slave children dealers, rapist, murderers anyone and everyone who first act of being here was to break our laws and piss all over our country. But whatever you say Larry, all this was created by a mindless old doddering dictator and you never once protested.
Hey mc,
I’ve been specifically critical of Biden/Harris regarding the # of border encounters. I said that that was their weakest issue. I never defended them.
Also, this isn’t apples to apples. Did Biden ignore any Supreme court rulings on this?
Larry,
I totally recognize that Trump should be following the Supreme Court decisions. I'm not missing any points there.
I repeated what this is about for me numerous times pertaining ONLY TO THIS GUY!
A court had already decided this bad hombre should be deported to anywhere but El Salvador and Trumps people messed up by sending him to El Salvador..........the administrative error.
They should correct that error and send him somewhere else.
It's pretty disingenuous to not recognize that is NOT the position of everybody on your side and the one that you have argued for (that there's no proof he is an MS-13 gang member, for instance).
The MSM position is that THIS WAS A MISTAKE because there is no legit evidence of him being a gang member and as you repeated constantly, he wasn't convicted of any crimes.
Why say that unless you think he should remain here?
For the umpteenth time, he should not remain here and he was already deported with a legal decision that considered all the facts in 2019 BEFORE Trump made being a member of MS-13 part of a terrorist group. This is NOT my opinion with anybody else JUST THIS GUY! He got an extra 5+ years in this country, more than he should have.
1. Illegal Immigrant(that was already deported to anywhere but El Salvador in 2019)-proven with 100% certainty
2. Member of MS-13-proven with 99% certainty
3. Repeated wife beater that resulted in a protective restraining order on him because of his violence against her-100% certainty
4. Major player in human trafficking operation-98% certainty
The Ds and MSM have manufactured a complete fairy tale in depicting who this person is.
He's a good looking guy and they got lots of pictures using it to mislead us. Then they censored or distorted all the evidence of him doing bad stuff and made up a good person that isn't him to go with the pictures.
They are exploiting this for political agenda and benefits to the max. D's are flying down to El Salvador for publicity stunts and attention.
This is something I haven't mentioned. Somebody(s) either in the media or the D party, after finding out about this deportation, contacted the wife and has been controlling her and everything surrounding the circumstances.
They have been sending out all the press releases to dozens or more of the media sources. Setting up all the press conferences, telling her what to say and so on. Chance of that? Near 100%!
I was in that business for 11 years and know how it works. There is a near 0% chance that she could have understood all of this or suddenly figured all of it out on her own. The people doing this are masters at manipulating/using the press, creating the false narratives and planning out the dynamics of the scheme. They are exploiting her for their agenda.
Larry,
Although mcfarm is greatly exaggerating, please don't pretend that you don't hate Trumps guts(and in the past, defended your right to hate him) and that doesn't impact your views........this thread being another example.
And that with Biden, you've been much more defensive (like me calling him the worst president in history for instance).
I would still call you pretty close to fair with Biden but when the comparison in recent year turns to Biden vs Trump.........the fairness vanishes.
But I actually can see your point in feeling this way..........because I often feel the exact same way about Donald Trump.
Even with years of practice, I still have to consciously remind myself at times to turn off the emotion hate after witnessing one of his many hate causing stunts from his pathologically thinking and behavior.
When he did that absurd tariff thing and I immediately recognized what an omnipotent ignoramus he is for doing it and the damage he would and is causing, my emotions gravitated towards HATE.
Mike said,
“I totally recognize that Trump should be following the Supreme Court decisions. I'm not missing any points there.”
—————-
This is the 1st time ITT you said this. So, we agree that Trump must facilitate Garcia being returned since the Supreme Ct decided this. When they/I say returned, we don’t mean set free. He could easily lose in court and thus be sent out of the US. If so, I wouldn’t be upset at all. He’d deserve it.
He is no model noncitizen as I’ve said more than once. He’s no choir boy. Based on these things you’ve pointed out in addition to your feeling he’s definitely a gang member based on the reasons you gave, I bet he’d lose in court if he returns unless they try to use his now being married as a reason to not deport him. Can they use that reason?
Per this, it seems he could still be deported. Good because I don’t want that to be the only thing keeping him from being deported, especially if he’s proven to be in a gang:
https://rjimmigrationlaw.com/resources/can-you-be-deported-if-married-to-a-u-s-citizen/
sorry not letting either one of you off today Larry and Mike. You called Trump a dictator multiple times here. You never called Biden a dictator for any illegal alien actions or the multiple counts treason or the crime family or the boarder. It is not apples to anything but bias, your bias.
MM,,,, Mcfarm greatly exaggerated. I would like to know what you are talking about. If anything I could added a shit pot full of times Biden acted like a dictator right to his last flagrant act of having a aid use auto pen.
Larry,
Absolutely he can still be deported, being married to a citizen.
That’s exactly what happened to him in 2019!
He married in June 2019 and immediately filed for relief from the deportation ruling earlier in the year based on 3 items, none were based on being married. 2 were rejected and the other one prevented him from being deported to just 1 country, El Salvador (which was the administrative error by Trumps people).
This person is extremely sharp and pretty objective. I copied that period that covered his initial relationship and marriage.
https://www.wakeuptopolitics.com/p/25-facts-about-kilmar-abrego-garcia
Mike said,
“I totally recognize that Trump should be following the Supreme Court decisions. I'm not missing any points there.”
—————-
This is the 1st time ITT you said this.
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Re: Re: El Salv. Pres. says he won’t return mistakenly deported man to US
By metmike - April 16, 2025, 11:56 p.m.
metmike
Why aren’t you talking about this potential abuse of power by this pseudo-dictator?
Larry,
That's what THE MEDIA wants it to be about. I did mention that onetime and that is a good point but am focusing on the authentic evidence and MSMs yellow journalism .
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Re: Re: El Salv. Pres. says he won’t return mistakenly deported man to US
By metmike - April 15, 2025, 7:49 p.m.
As mentioned, Trump is LOSING this battle badly because the MSM is colluding with lies about the guy and the situation.
Should he have been given due process? I have great sympathy for other human beings, especially those less fortunate or different and court rulings.
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With regards to Trump violating a Supreme Court order...........technically that is NOT true:
Aysha Bagchi, USA TODAY
https://www.usconstitution.net/constitutions-role-in-foreign-policy/
Trumps people are twisting? Just what would you 2 purpose Trump do? The President of El Salvador says no, this illegal alien is not leaving anywhere on my watch. You really want Trump to invade and take this illegal alien back to the US to then send him to where? Which insane country is going to accept the creature and why? Speaking of insane the insanity of the congressman down there having tea with the criminal on the news at this moment. What a great site it is to tax payer dollars flushed like this on live TV. Great ammo for the libs to run on next election for sure.
Trumps people are twisting? Just what would you 2 purpose Trump do? The President of El Salvador says no, this illegal alien is not leaving anywhere on my watch. You really want Trump to invade and take this illegal alien back to the US to then send him to where? Which insane country is going to accept the creature and why? Speaking of insane the insanity of the congressman down there having tea with the criminal on the news at this moment. What a great site it is to tax payer dollars flushed like this on live TV. Great ammo for the libs to run on next election for sure.
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Thanks for demonstrating that twisting mcfarm: The President of El Salvador says no, this illegal alien is not leaving anywhere on my watch. You really want Trump to invade and take this illegal alien back to the US.
We all know that the president of El Salvador is not only Trump's puppet but Trump is paying him to take the people he deports down there. Trump could have Garcia back here with a phone call to Bukele.
However, I strongly agree with you on the insanity of the Ds and MSM of completely manufacturing a fake reality of who this person really is and the extent to which they are perpetrating this fraudulent scheme to steal our intelligence for their political agenda.
In fact, that's been what I'm focusing on exposing here!
You and me likely disagree on some immigration issues and one of them for me is the fact that people with your negative opinion about immigration/immigrants(millions) have Abrego Garcia to see as the poster man of the Ds and MSMs (opposing sides) fight for keeping illegal immigrants in our country.
He is a good example for us to see why illegal immigrants that are gang members should be deported.
Not all of them have long criminal records or have killed people. The vast majority are UNDER THE RADAR when breaking laws and perpetrating fear and violence in their neighborhoods. THAT'S WHAT GANGS DO!! Even the ones with a wife(that he beats) and children that have to witness all of his crap.
The Ds and MSM are doubling, tripling, quadrupling down defending this guy to represent their cause, using fairy tales instead of objective truths...........and exploiting their ability to dominate as message gatekeepers.
C'mon, Ds and MSM find some honest, hard working illegal immigrants that are not hurting anybody and making positive contributions to their families and our country. They are the vast majority!
Most of them are good citizens........but instead they picked this guy because of TDS! Trump is trying to get rid of the bad ones............and they have to oppose it because its Trump.
Bad choice for our country, bad look for the ones doing it in the long run.
this new age msm term "puppet" get thrown around way to much since the inception of TDS and mostly its a fools errand to throw it around. Now how about the crazed lib congressman down there on the tax payer dime. Guess you could now logically say he is invading that country and trying to free an criminal just like a .....DICTATOR...but not a word either here or on the msm, wonder why not? Bias, TDS or just libs carving up America the good old fashioned way
Mike posted:
Aysha Bagchi, USA TODAY
————-
What a mess says several law professors in this USA Today article. This legal battle could drag on for a very long time. Don’t expect it to be resolved anytime soon unless the Supreme Court rules on it again with the second time having more clarity.
From the USA Today article:
The administration "keeps mis-describing what the Supreme Court actually ruled," wrote Georgetown law professor Stephen Vladeck April 15 in his "One First" Supreme Court-focused newsletter. "But at least some of this mess is the Supreme Court’s fault."
Some law professors have suggested the Supreme Court invited the standoff.
The high court didn't mandate Abrego Garcia's return, didn't set deadlines for the government's next steps, and was vague about what the Trump administration actually needs to do, Georgetown law professor Stephen Vladeck wrote in his "One First" newsletter.
Jed Rubenfeld, a Yale law professor who writes a legal column for the Free Press, wrote April 16 that the Trump administration's behavior didn't amount to disobeying the judicial branch.
"The White House may be dragging its feet—and it’s not exactly putting pressure on Bukele to let Garcia go," Rubenfeld wrote. "But it has not (yet) defied the Supreme Court, in part because the Court’s short, ambiguous order did not define facilitate," he added.
Thanks, Larry!
Republican Judge's Rebuke Shows 'Tide May Be Turning' Against Trump—Lawyer
"If today the Executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home?"
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That interpretation if fatally flawed. THE REASON they are being deported is BECAUSE they are not American citizens. To claim that this opens the door for American citizens to be deported is the total opposite of what might happen in the future and is illogical.
If a drought results in a farmer or gardener irrigating their crop because of lack of rain, it doesn't mean that they are more likely to irrigate when there is plenty of rain. The entire reason to irrigate is lack of rain. The entire reason to deport is that this person is an illegal immigrant. Deporting an illegal immigrant because they are not a citizen DOES NOT make it more likely to deport a citizen the same way.
Trump shouldn't defy a definitive Supreme Court decision, if they come out with one but the flawed rationals and story telling about this case is nonsense.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-easter-message-sparks-backlash-critics-2061918
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https://www.newsweek.com/republican-john-kennedy-calls-out-trump-admin-abrego-garcia-2061931
The Republican senator continued: "Look this was a screw up in my opinion. The administration won't admit it, but this was a screw up. Mr. Garcia was not supposed to be sent to El Salvador, he was sent to El Salvador."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/van-hollen-expertly-destroys-trump-143839476.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
“The courts of law are also where people get to have their due process so we don’t unfairly punish people who don’t have criminal records,” Van Hollen continued. “And so, my view is you can crack down and hold guilty people accountable and also respect the due process rights of everybody who is in court.
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NOT TRUE!!!
Due process was given to Garcia in 2019 and a court ruled that he be deported. His attorney's appealed and asked for asylum because of the threat to him going back to El Salvador from the vicious rival gang, Barrio-18. An immigration court, after that DENIED HIS ASYLUM REQUEST AND CONFIRMED HIS DEPORTATION but ruled that he should be deported anywhere except El Salvador.
What new evidence do we have to overturn that?
1. He beats his wife and she had to get a restraining/protective order and he was evicted from their house(which was resolved later after she never showed up in court).
2. He was part of a human trafficking operation based on the crystal clear evidence from TN law enforcement but Biden's FBI instructed them to let him go.
3. He was showing up yearly at ICE to get a work permit but his deportation ruling is still in effect.
4. The deportation ruling was already appealed once AND THEY LOST!. That immigration judge, did however rule that he should be deported anywhere except El Salvador and Trump messed up by sending Garcia to the 1 place the immigration court ruled he couldn't be sent to.
5. The MSM and Ds are winning the battle here. Not because they are right but because they can control the narratives and manufacture their own set of facts, while censoring most of the inconvenient truths. This is nothing new at all and I am just exposing it. Fox and the Rs do the same thing.......with the Insurrection being a perfect example. As if Trump wasn't the complete mastermind and instead, was framed and Trump is the victim of TDS regarding the circumstances related to January 6, 2021.
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If you think that I pick sides based on some sort of political affiliation or bias(like most people) and this impacts my posting in this thread, then read this:
Shooter Was a MAGA Nut
Started by joj - April 19, 2025, 7:11 a.m.
“The impulse among lots of Democrats is to always crank the volume up to 11 and take advantage of whatever the easiest, most obvious photo opportunity is,” the strategist said. “In this case, you get a situation where you’re giving the White House and the Republicans a lot of images and visuals that they think are compelling for them.”
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The Ds/MSM have chosen to use this person for their cause!
Instead of the vast majority of illegal immigrants that are NOT gang members, do NOT beat their wives, do NOT participate in human trafficking and were NOT deported previously. ..........AND DESERVE TO STAY HERE!
Anybody that thinks Abrego Garcia is the type of person we want in our country.........has a serious issue with reality or cares more about TDS and politics than they do about common sense and the truth.
The Ds and MSM have taken their stand on this issue.
The exact same one they had while Biden was president, causing the illegal immigration crisis....... and it was the biggest issue that gave Trump a win in November.
American politicians and our media are so dishonest, disingenuous, disgraceful, disgusting, disreputable and disastrous for our country!