+++++++++++++++++
I thought the main reason for DOGE was to cut wasteful government spending so that we could reduce the massive deficit that is beginning to act as a huge anchor, pulling down our economy.
Obviously not!
Moody’s downgrades United States credit rating
Started by metmike - May 17, 2025, 6:30 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/111921/
++++++++++++++++==
With regards to accumulation of additional debt from this bill. They did it while making major cuts on specific programs for the poor. This is ironic.
Make big DOGE cuts(some in areas of government spending in key areas, like the NWS). Make cuts for programs to help the less fortunate.............and still bloat the National Debt????
I could strongly justify ALL these cuts and was looking at it that way until now.
In appreciating NOW that they are NOT being used to reduce the National Debt, this is extremely poor management of our budget and deleterious to the vast majority of Americans for benefits of very few.
Ironically, even the rich that benefit from this plan......will be harmed increasingly by the growing National Debt.
There are some good things within the bill but so what? The bottom line is that it greatly adds to the weight of the anchor which is slowing down the US economic ship and WILL sink it eventually if this keeps up. There is less and less opportunity to do something and I was thinking this was one of our last chances.
At this rate, the dire consequences will be inevitable!
there two sides to this story even if big media only tells one. The other side is getting growth back north of 3% instead of the lib goal 1%. We do that {and that is very doable} we bring in another 4 trillion dollars......wow how about that budget? We get rid of all the needless regs and grow like that and we reduce the deficit.
Thanks, mcfarm!
I hope it works out that way.
From a knowledgeable and smart poster at another BB:
CBO estimates that 13 million people will lose health insurance due to the so called "big beautiful bill". On top of that it will require many people on Medicaid to pay $35 co-payments when visiting the doctor. If someone is on Medicaid, they cannot afford 35 buck co-payments, in effect causing more to lose health insurance.
Oh well, I guess big tax cuts for the rich are more important.
in other words or more accurate words that would be tax cuts for those who pay taxes and most of us are not rich
Thanks very much, Larry.
That point of yours is exactly what bugs me the most about this bill.
I'm actually for universal health care in this country because we are a very rich country that COULD make it work if we wanted to and tens of millions of Americans are UNDER insured or have no insurance.
Are they not Americans too?
Those that are blessed with the most and more than they need should be grateful and express that by sharing some of that with those that are less fortunate.
We live in a very materialistic society with millions of people that not only take their good fortune for granted (and I get that they worked their butts off and deserve everything they earn).
And I get that millions of people abuse welfare and free government stuff but for me one question is:
Do we cut off the millions of abusers at the expense of millions, especially children that NEED this support to live a basic existence which everybody born in this country should have?
Ironically, we are cutting back on foreign aid to help less fortunate people in other countries to keep that money at home for our citizens.........but we are doing the same thing to our less fortunate citizens too!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-disappointed-by-trump-big-beautiful-bill-doge/
"I was disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly, which increases the budget deficit, not just decreases it, and undermines the work that the DOGE team is doing," Musk said.
The tax provisions of the package, titled the "One Big Beautiful Bill Act" after Mr. Trump's name for the bill, would increase the deficit by $3.8 trillion by 2034, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
"I think a bill can be big or it can be beautiful," Musk told CBS News, "but I don't know if it can be both. My personal opinion."
++++++++++++++++
Exactly my comment!
https://thehill.com/homenews/5331561-elon-musk-trump-budget-bill-gop/
Elon Muskdropped a rhetorical bomb on President Trump’splans to pass a massive budget bill on Tuesday.
Musk, the world’s richest man, excoriated legislation that Trump calls big and beautiful as “a disgusting abomination.”
++++++++++++
He knew what was in this bill when it came out but waited until the media was crushing him with really bad news coverage on Sunday and Monday to drop this bomb in order to manipulate the media.
Now, instead of vilifying Musk with top news stories about his drug use, they are giving him "the enemy of my enemy is my friend coverage"
Elon Musk, the King of manipulating!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Elon Musk uses drugs
By metmike - June 4, 2025, 7:13 p.m.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office also found that the House-passed legislation would increase the number of people without health insurance by 10.9 million by 2034.
It's like NOT having your cake and NOT eating it either!
And when you dial in what DOGE did, taking money that was being paid to employ government workers that were doing jobs and being sent to worthy organizations, then doing what with it?
NOT pay down the debt. What money was saved by this if this Big (UN)Beautiful Bill is passed?
This is like the fake anti inflation act.
It was a huge spending bill originally called the Climate Bill but couldn't quite pass. So they just RENAMED it, because we were having high inflation and pretended it would fight inflation to sell it to people and get it passed.
Calling this the Big Beautiful Bill is giving it a name that is the complete opposite of what it represents.
A new bipartisan bill and a tax plan from the House GOP could mean bigger retirement tax savings to offset taxes on Social Security and high prices.
https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/significant-tax-deduction-increase-proposed-for-those-over-65
++++++++++++++
https://taxfoundation.org/blog/one-big-beautiful-bill-pros-cons/
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5355927-thune-senate-medita-cuts/
+++++++++++++++++
The big (NOT) beautiful bill is one of the worst bills in history for America!
After declaring he was stepping away from the political spotlight, Elon Musk got right back in it.
As the Senate debated President Donald Trump’s “Big, Beautiful Bill” on Monday before a final vote, Musk issued a stark warning via his social media platform X.
“Every member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history should hang their head in shame! And they will lose their primary next year if it is the last thing I do on this Earth,” he wrote.
A few hours later he went further, declaring on X that if the “insane spending bill passes, the America Party will be formed the next day.”
“Our country needs an alternative to the Democrat-Republican uniparty so that the people actually have a VOICE,” he wrote.
For weeks, Musk has railed against Trump’s policy bill, leading to a very public and ugly fight with Trump earlier this month. In a flurry of X posts several weeks ago, Musk had proposed starting a new political party.
That proposal resurfaced on Monday, when Musk said: “It is obvious with the insane spending of this bill, which increases the debt ceiling by a record FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS that we live in a one-party country – the PORKY PIG PARTY!! Time for a new political party that actually cares about the people.”
+++++++++++++++++=
Amen, Amen! to Elon Musk on this topic!
The US Dollar isn't experiencing its greatest/fastest drop in the first 6 months of a new administration for no reason! The rest of the world has lost confidence in our leadership and policies/agenda because of Donald Trump. This is NOT speculation.
US dollar getting crushed
Started by metmike - June 26, 2025, 10:26 p.m.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/americans-weigh-big-beautiful-bill-polls
However, many of the latest national surveys indicate that Americans are far from thrilled with the measure.
By a 21-point margin, voters questioned in the most recent Fox News national poll opposed the federal budget legislation (38% favored vs. 59% opposed), which passed by the House of Representatives by just one vote last month.
HEAD HERE FOR THE LATEST FOX NEWS POLLING
The bill was also underwater in national surveys conducted this month by the Washington Post (minus 19 points), Pew Research (minus 20 points) and Quinnipiac University (minus 26 points).
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-big-beautiful-bill-vote-07-01-25
I didn't know about everything related to how we use Medicaid for in this country and what the break down was.
Since there has been a huge debate over people losing Medicaid, potentially 11 million and also the impact on hospitals, I decided to check.
The fact check shows the Rs are lying their butts off!
This bill will cause many hundreds of hospitals to close because of the cuts to Medicaid.
How insane is this?????????
Increasing the National Debt many trillions but at the same time, absurdly, drastically CUTTING the absolutely, basic and needed healthcare to 11+ million people and to hospitals that can't stay operable without this money and WILL have to shut down.
2024 American Hospital Association | March 2024
Fact Sheet: Majority of Hospital Payments
Dependent on Medicare or Medicaid
It is broadly acknowledged that Medicare reimburses hospitals less than the cost of providing care and their
reimbursement rates are non-negotiable. The Medicare Payment Advisory Commission found that hospitals
experienced a record-low -12.7% margin on Medicare services in 2022, and it projects that margins will continue
to remain near -13% in 20241. Combined underpayments from Medicare and Medicaid to hospitals were nearly
$130 billion in 20222, up from $76 billion in 2019. Exacerbating this pressure is the fact that Medicare and Medicaid
account for most hospital utilization. In fact, 96% of hospitals have 50% of their inpatient days paid by Medicare
and Medicaid, and more than 82% of hospitals have 67% Medicare and Medicaid inpatient days. Because of the
fixed nature of these payments, hospitals are unable to fully absorb the tremendous inflationary forces they are
currently facing.
A recent AHA report highlights the significant growth in expenses across labor, drugs and supplies, as well as the
impact that rising inflation is having on hospital prices. Further cutting Medicare payments to hospitals and health
systems will threaten access to care for patients and communities.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
https://www.npr.org/2025/06/30/nx-s1-5451401/republicans-big-bill-could-hit-rural-hospitals-hard
++++++++++++++++++
Are Rs really this ignorant or do they just not care?????????
Go Rand Paul for once again having the moral integrity to do the right thing and vote AGAINST his own party.
I agree with Musk. Every R that voted yes should be voted out next year for pushing such a horrible anti American bill.
Trump was supposed to be America First.
Instead,
1. He's putting Israel/Netanyahu first and
2. Rich Americans 2nd
3. With the people and organizations that need the most support IN LAST PLACE.
4. ALL Americans are being punished big time by the increase in the National Debt, especially since the entire justification by Musk with DOGE was to cut spending/waste to REDUCE THE DEBT. This is why Musk is so extremely mad right now. Musk is exactly right!
President Trump is increasing the debt FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL AGENDA! Just another example of him taking America down the wrong path.
Giving this guy, who's already intoxicated with his delusions of grandeur pathological thinking/acting even MORE power is giving him positive reinforcement to do even more damage to our country and the world.
Supreme Court rules in Trump's favor
Started by metmike - June 27, 2025, 6:43 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/112866/
5. Actually the biggest punishment to Americans because of this bill will be to FUTURE Americans and the FUTURE of our country. It's complete insanity for us to take an increasingly damaging National Debt and instead of trying to fix it by paying it down, they don't even balance the budget......they INCREASE the National Debt which will just cause the economic crisis to arrive sooner for your children.
Addressing the National Debt has been a kick the can down the road endeavor for decades with plenty of road remaining to kick the can down. The road is already narrowing and causing the economy to slow down, here in 2025 compared to its potential if we didn't have to pay 1 trillion, just in interest on the debt.
And it will keep getting worse. Trump clearly doesn't care about the FUTURE of our country or he doesn't understand the principles of domestic economics.
Since his tariffs demonstrate lack of comprehension of global economic principles, it's possible his comprehensive of domestic economics is flawed.
However, it seems most likely that he just doesn't care a bit about MANY Americans.
+++++++++
Complete nonsense!
BREAKING NEWS: Rand Paul Condemns 'Big, Not-So-Beautiful Bill' On The Senate Floor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jd8YAVfknw
++++++++++++++++++
Excellent speech by the only R that has the integrity and courage to speak the truth about this bill!!!!!!
Congrats to the Rs for getting your bill passed.
was just listening to NPR on the radio.
They had a guy going on about how energy prices were all going much higher because of the bill?
NPR? Imagine that. A source that takes millions of tax dollars to shovel anti- American, hope everything turns to socialism garbage including child pornography. So now they are energy policy experts as well?
Thanks, mcfarm!
We both like this guy. He makes some good points but ignores some key ones and calls them propaganda without addressing things like the increase in the National Debt.
This was one of the most perfect times in history, fresh from Musk's DOGE cuts to finally make progress towards managing the National Debt Monster. Instead, Trump and the Rs decided to spoon feed the monster even MORE to make it a bigger monster for 100% political and personal agenda reasons at the expense of the vast majority of Americans.
Trump also continues to insist the Fed cut interest rates to,1% which is another clear example of why he not only has no comprehension of how the principles of global economics and trading work but he is clueless about domestic economic principles.
Or he doesn’t care about the likely consequence's, which would be an overheated economy and inflation spiking much higher, especially in combination with his very inflationary tariffs policies that he half hazardly applies to message his pathological ego.
The Fed was forced to cut interest rates during the COVID severe recession in 2020 to stimulate the economy and it resulted In the high inflation in 2021+. They were too slow to increase interest rates which caused the inflation to spike too high for too long and Biden got all the blame because it was on his watch but most of the actions causing it were in 2020, that included printing a trillion in free money for tax,payers to stimulate the economy in 2020 and 2021.
What would be the reason now?
Other than Donald Trump wants to over stimulate and over heat the economy because he doesn’t care at all about inflation(despite his promise last November).
He may be ignorant about how this causes inflation but it’s intentional, denial ignorance Because it contradicts his delusional objectives in his manufactured reality world that doesn’t follow indisputable principles and laws of economics.
His mentally ill world is controlled by his perceived infallibility and decrees with markets and mere mortals obeying his commands.
That sounds crazy because it is crazy but it also defines donald trumps,pathological thinking.
Nobody ever accused me of defending Trump, so brace yourself....
The stock market is not the only measure of a healthy economy but it is one measure. Tariffs do not seem to be adversely affecting stock prices or corporate profits. (yet...) Could the market be wrong? Possibly. But if I've learned anything in my decades of observing markets it is that when a market makes a new high, it is trying to tell you something.
One way to get our fiscal house in order is by raising taxes. Perhaps the tariff roll out is just such a tax? Unfortunately, this sort of tax is regressive in nature. Meaning, that even if it does work (the economy weathers the tariff storm, and deficits decline) the working man spends (consumes) a greater percentage of his/her income than wealthy folks. Ironically, that means that it will hit the MAGA voters harder than the wealthy Manhattan liberals.
My guess is that the disruptive nature of this policy will take time to unfold. I think of the US economy like a giant ship. You cannot make a 180 turn in a short period of time.
Time will tell.
Thanks very much, joj!
Great thoughts!
I agree 100% on collecting the tariff being 1 reason that Trump sees is as a success.
With regards to the stock market, I described the Ponzi Scheme aspect of it earlier this month:
Re: Re: Re: Re: 50% tariffs on EU starting June 1
By metmike - July 12, 2025, 4:52 p.m.
I also assume that you own some stocks.
As stated, I'm not predicting anything about the stock market except that historically its' such a proven investment that people are using that to trump, Trump. Shrugging off anything that isn't shocking, then moving forward and assuming that TACO Trump will bail out and declare victory. Maybe that will happen and how Wall Street sees it but Trump in 2025 is something that Wall Street has never had to deal with before in stock market history.
Nobody can know what and how Trump will respond with his tariffs later this year. Trump likely has no clue. He's getting positive reinforcement right now as you mentioned.
Farmers growing soybeans that aren't in MAGA have a different take because they are some of the first ones experiencing the negative impacts of Trumps tariffs. Maybe the tangible damage will need to spread later this year before we see a bigger reaction to this "outlier" event that has no precedent and hasn't come close to maturing right now.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
With regards to the tariffs working for the reasons they are sold for, they are already backfiring:
Re: Re: 50% tariffs on EU starting June 1
By metmike - July 14, 2025, 6:23 p.m.
+++++++++++++
Dropping rates super low for too long because of the COVID economy crash in 2020/2021 and injecting huge amounts of money into the economy is what caused inflation to spike much higher during the Biden administration.
Dropping rates to 1% with the current economy would likely overheat it and spike inflation higher, on top of the inflation from Trump's tariffs.
However, the economy did ok with rates that low during most of the Obama years, though unemployment was HIGHER than this.
When unemployment finally dropped to this low early in Trump 1, the Fed INCREASED interest rates accordingly.
One can actually make a case for lower interest rates here based on several factors but 1% is just delusional, consistent with Trump's pathological thinking and self serving motives that discard his America First promise that included LOW INFLATION.
It's actually Trump's fault that the Fed has NOT lowered interest rates. His reckless application of widespread tariffs, often with no rhyme or reason have no precedent for the Fed to use in order to properly dial in their future impact.
And the worst part is that Trump has changed his tariffs policies 26 times in the last 3 months. How can the Fed do its job, properly assessing the future impact of Trump's tariffs when they change every day?
Answer: They can't. It's impossible because of the erratic President Trump's great power to make decisions that might strongly impact inflation............or he might cancel them all too and declare victory, manufacturing fake reasons for why they worked and he was brilliant, before they go into effect on August 1, and cause inflation later this year.
Fox and MAGA will all repeat whatever Trump says and tell us about how smart he is. No matter what it is. Amazing that the most flawed president in history.......is seen as flawless by that group.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/maddow-blog-trump-says-surprised-184836740.html
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/trumps-next-fed-chair-not-165210782.html
https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/16/politics/trump-megabill-one-big-beautiful-bill
wow, just who is more likely to be answering a phone during the day. Some one with a family to support and working atleast 1 or 2 jobs is more than likely not going to be that person. That is for sure and guess who is likely to answer and their politics.
Thanks, mcfarm.
Great point!
Surveys and polls are certainly flawed.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/nonresponse-bias-ipsos-poll-findings/
I tried to find some that were more favorable and this was the best I could find for you:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5400372-trump-bill-divided-voters-poll/
++++++++++++++
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-big-beautiful-bill-approval-polling-2096570
Other polls have also revealed widespread opposition to the bill.
A Quinnipiac poll conducted June 22-24 found that 55 percent of Americans oppose it. A Fox News survey from June 13-16 put opposition even higher, at 59 percent. Meanwhile, a KFF poll from June 4-8 showed the strongest pushback, with 64 percent saying they disapproved of the legislation.
YouGov's polling revealed some insight as to why. It showed that 52 percent of Americans—80 percent of Democrats and 22 percent of Republicans—believe the federal budget deficit will increase as a result of the bill. Just 11 percent think the deficit will stay the same, while 19 percent believe it will decrease.
And when asked how the budget will affect everyday Americans, 52 percent said they expect it will hurt the average American "a lot" or "a little." Only 28 percent think the plan will help, while 9 percent say it won't have much impact. Slightly fewer respondents—42 percent—believe they and their immediate families will be personally hurt by the budget, while 24 percent expect to benefit and 18 percent think it won't affect them much.