metmike: I know that Sanders is sincere about his misguided beliefs but he is so, so wrong and so, so anti science and his energy plan makes absolutely no sense based on physics, science and energy principles.
It's absolutely impossible for the US to do what his energy plan calls for(which would do absolutely nothing to effect global CO2 levels anyway).
If anybody would just take the time to listen to what he says(that sounds very convincing) then check his facts and the realities..........., they would see that this is just made up stuff not based on viable realities.
First off, his blaming the wild fires and drought in N.California is very anti science.
1. Global drought has not increased and the planet is greening up.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth
2. However, climate models projecting the future, which is what is being used to sell his climate crisis today in N. California(worse droughts and wildfires), show the OPPOSITE of what Bernie claims. This is because of the warmer Pacific Ocean(more El Nino's and increased precipitation that it will cause in N.California. Warmer air also holds more moisture, which is why global precipitation has gone UP not down.
https://phys.org/news/2017-07-california-wetter-century.html
That natural, severe drought that California had, which we were told was a permanent change because of the climate crisis..........is no longer.
Anthony Watts / March 11, 2019
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/11/californias-permanent-drought-is-now-washed-away-by-reality/
From 2014, spot the portion caused by “man-made climate change”:
"While Sanders had already endorsed the Green New Deal, the sweeping Democratic proposal to combat climate change, and had teamed up with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York on climate legislation, his new plan provides the most detail yet on how he envisions the climate change moonshot taking shape if he is elected president.
Sanders describes his plan as a "ten-year, nationwide mobilization centered on equity and humanity" that would create 20 million new jobs.
Among Sanders' ideas is sourcing 100% of the country's electricity from renewable and zero-emissions power. "
metmike: What?
How is this possible?
It isn't, at least not until possibly later this century at the earliest based on the real world.
We should note that none of these plans make any sense, especially the 20,000,000 new jobs (just some crazy estimates that produce millions of jobs doing things like working at solar and wind power plants and retrograding houses to be more energy efficient-like we don't have people working at fossil fuel power plants now)and how can we possibly supply 100% of the country's electricity, which includes adding all transportation from renewable and zero emissions power before the end of the century??
Answer, we can't in this world.
Ironically, almost everything in the plan would be counterproductive.
Many more jobs would be lost as the life blood to every developed countries economy is its access to cheap, efficient and reliable fossil fuels. His plan would kill the US economy, with absolute certainty.
And for what? To solve a made up climate crisis?
Here's are more details on his plan:
The Vermont Senator has finally put out his own plan to fight climate change. It’s big.
Here are the indisputable realities of energy, renewable and fossil fuels that Bernie's plan violates.
Could renewable energy completely replace fossil fuels?
Started by metmike - Aug. 1, 2019, 11:02 p.m.
Here are the indisputable realities of climate, that tell us that we are in a climate optimum for life on this planet, not a climate crisis..............they are trying to change the terminology again now because climate crisis is not scary enough.........the new term is climate emergency.
Seriously, the new term that some of the most extreme on this, want to push is climate emergency.
Climate Reality discussions
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/27864/
Donald Trump has said thousands of crazy things that don't make sense for all sorts of reasons. But this one by Sanders, is by a very wide margin crazier than anything that Trump has said and the opposite of the truth as the last 40 years has featured the best weather/climate on this planet in over 1,000 years and we are headed into a climate optimum. This is total bullsheet:
Climate Change Is a National Emergency
https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/videos/645314952653542/?v=645314952653542
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/18/politics/bernie-sanders-criminal-justice-reform-plan/index.html
Back in the real world, Sanders plan is a blatant display of how he has no idea how the criminal justice system works.......or knows and is just saying this crazy stuff to get elected.
Everyone is now just told what they should do and believe. No one wants to learn what is really happening. We have at least 2 climate disaster stories a day. It gets old. I try to educated but it's not what they want to hear. I do believe the younger crew in the studio is listening to me, but reporters and producers not so much.
Grant,
Your position in the publics eye requires you to be very careful about your opinions on climate.
Climate science is mostly about politics today and what political side you have allegiance to determines what you think about climate change............and many people get very upset with those that disagree with them on climate change/take it personal.
A tv meteorologist, who was as outspoken as I am on this forum about climate change, using the same authentic data, would upset quite a few liberal/democratic viewers, to the point where they would not watch anymore.
This is not the 1st time a politico said what the target audience wanted to hear or say it often enough and it must be true
As you know our country is bi-lingual
We had a PM who would say one thing in French to French people in Quebec, his native home and language
He would say some thing else to the rest of the country in English
Most reporters were not bi-lingual, so English covered English speeches and of course French covered French speeches
Very few caught the difference and anybody that did was sluffed off as a mis understanding in translation or intent of wording
It worked and he got elected multiple times
We have no limits on PM office
Maybe not exactly the same but the one thing I take away
How many journalist actually fact check science
Science is so complicated most just give up as so many conflicting stories, just confuse people
Say it often enough, tell them what they want to hear and the combination must be true, as most don't know what to believe
This forum is much too small a soap box to tell people the real facts
Sorry Mike but how many voters read this forum compared to those who vote
Some how the message needs a bigger boom box
Thanks Wayne,
People don't have degrees in atmospheric science of weather/climate records on their computer. Neither do they have the motivation to do research to verify what they hear on the major network news and from democrats about the climate crisis..
When Al Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize and his misinformation, anti science movie "An inconvenient truth" got an academy award by the gatekeepers and he/they told us that the science was settled......people assumed that it was and have heard the same fake climate crisis and extreme weather narratives repeated since then.
This is what made hijacking climate science for the political agenda so easy.
I've shown hundreds of graphs and data sources from the real world here that prove there is no climate crisis and that its been warmer than this before but I'm an atmospheric scientist. The other 99.9% of the population has to figure out that the MSM is lying about the climate crisis, either by doing independent research to verify its no crisis or by belonging to the opposite political party, which means that they don't believe it because they don't believe anything from that party, not because they are smarter about climate science.
The liberal side, mostly refuses to acknowledge any of my authentic data sources on climate science because their minds were made up along time ago.
They were promised that we have a climate crisis(the new term they want to change it to is climate emergency because it sounds scarier) and the science was settled and that their gatekeepers understand the science so well, that they know exactly, to the tenth of degree and to the year, when we will lose the planet forever.
No need to question that. It's like gravity or the earth being round or that there was a Holocaust and they make us scientists with the authentic data to show they are wrong about the extreme interpretations out to be deniers trying to sabotage their efforts to save the planet.
We, that disagree, all get paid by big oil to push disinformation.....according to those selling the scare.
Debates or discussions between people with my view and them are not allowed. Instead, we are smeared and called unkind names like "deniers" or the one President Obama liked to use, "flat earthers".
People that are correct about something and are questioned, usually show the evidence confidentially to prove their points. They don't refuse to have a debate and call the other person names and try to completely shut down their voice/opinion.
It's worked too. Most people have heard the same alarmist climate propaganda on the MSM for over a decade and that's where they get their news from, especially on the fake climate crisis...............errr, I mean the fake climate emergency.
I know that Sanders is sincere about his misguided beliefs
Sorry MM, but I have to disagree, and you have to as well if you subscribe to the belief that actions speak louder than words.
Sanders, who bases a lot of his rhetoric on a "living wage"had to be forced to pay his campaign workers a "living wage" and then attacked the whistle blowers who shed light on the issue.
Sanders, an advocate for the poor is one of the least charitable politicians there is, in spite of his net worth in the millions.
Sanders, an advocate for higher taxes on the rich uses every dodge in the book to pay as little as possible in spite of a net worth in the millions.
How can someone who apparently does not believe a word he himself says be labeled as sincere? In a cohort heavily populated by frauds (politicians), he's at the top of the heap selling "snake oil" to willing believers.
You make some good points on this Tim!
Actions do speak louder than words for the logical mind and Sanders past actions don't back up his crazy words one bit, they contradict them as you pointed out.
On his cry to save the planet, he has not practiced environmentalism in his personal life which is now past it's 70th year.
Go to this link and see the authentic position and life style of a sincere environmentalist vs the fake environmentalists like Bernie Sanders that make up convincing sounding stuff to get attention and get votes.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/27498/
Re: Re: The real environmental crisis's
By metmike - Aug. 4, 2019, 12:16 p.m.
The EPA-s endangerment finding which allows it to regulate CO2 as a pollutant is one of the biggest piles of dung in political history, masquerading as science.
I’m a passenger in a car right now or would show it to you.
Keep in mind that I’m an environmentalist.
I conserve water and energy, I turn the ac completely off in the Summer when my wife is not home and the heat down to as low as50 in the winter when she’s gone.....seriously-I damaged her tropical plants a couple of times-I wear a sweat shirt, my winter jacket, a hat and gloves with finger holes to type on the computer. I often wear a pair of down pants over my jeans.
I minimize use of plastics and paper/ cardboard. We used to recycle but got out of that routine. My kids would collect aluminum cans, crush them then we would sell them. They made $100 doing this.
I also exercise vigorously and exhale massive amounts of beneficial CO2 to do my part in helping to green up the planet (-:
Unless you are very active or get dirty, there is no need to shower every day. I shower after exercise or working outside and getting dirty. Showering every day Is a waste of water if you just do it out of habit. Green lawns are aesthetically appealing but they waste billions of gallons of water.
The point of telling you this is that the hypocritical gatekeepers of the information that brainwash us about the fake climate crisis are maximizing their use of those fossil fuels to enjoy all the comforts they provide in their lives.......and calling people like me deniers for providing authentic science that contradicts their scary, speculative computer model simulations going out for the next 100 years.
And they have the gumption to tell us exactly what we have to do or we will lose the planet in 12 years, with solutions that will have zero effect on climate and don’t address any real environmental problems with our water, air or soils.
All the climate reality discussions can be found here:
Tim,
I've always liked Sanders(maybe because I was a dem the first half of my life and still stand by the old dem principles of taking care of the less fortunate in society) but you got me thinking about his latest off the charts nonsense policies based on completely made up stuff that would be completely counterproductive to the US.........and the hypocrisy of his long life of not practicing any of this personally.
I still agree strongly with him that the government is going to have to take complete control(at least of many aspects, specifically related to pricing) of the collapsing health care system(you and I disagree greatly on this) but not entirely for the reasons that he gives.
Other than that, my revised opinion of him is that he is a big fat fraud based on the compelling evidence presented above.
The discussion as it relates to health care continues here:
We all know that Trump saysa lot of insane not true things.
Sanders is giving him a run for his money:
1. Completely fake climate crisis(emergency) about our current climate optimum(for life)
2. Economy killing fairy tale dynamics for his "Green New Deal"
3. Now he's praising China for what one of the most human rights oppressive governments on the planet is doing for its people by increasing its fossil fuel use to double that of the US and rapidly going higher, which he has been screaming about(attacking the US) for years as a violation that is going to destroy the planet.
No, seriously, that's not fake news. I guess the big difference is that Trumps lies are to promote his Make American Great Again policies. Sanders lies would make American a 3rd world country for the first time(and apparently aid China vs the US).
| August 27, 2019
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/sanders-praises-chinas-leadership-in-interview
"They're a country that vigorously protects their own interests," the Vermont senator said in an interview with The Hill. "But what we have to say about China, in fairness to China and its leadership, is if I'm not mistaken, they have made more progress in addressing extreme poverty than any country in the history of civilization, okay? So they've done a lot of things for their people."
metmike: What the heck? is Sanders suffering SEVERE dementia?
The Chinese are some of the most oppressed people on the planet and they suffer extreme human rights violations that are completely unacceptable by any standards.
https://nypost.com/2018/09/17/china-is-inventing-a-whole-new-way-to-oppress-a-people/
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-china-uighur-20190626-story.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China
Now you may think that I'm being a bit hard on Bernie because he is addressing China's economic development over the past 2 decades..............and he would be absolutely correct about their economy being one of the fastest growing in the world during the last 20 years.
But here's the point. The entire reason for China to accomplish the economic success comes from this:
China's CO2 emissions have almost tripled over the last 2 decades and are almost double the emissions of the US, with ours going down recently as theirs is on a course to be more than triple our emissions. This actually, is the quintessential, irrefutable example of the correlation between using cheap, reliable and dependable fossil fuels and economic growth
Sanders wants to crush our economy with a Green New Deal that eliminates fossil fuels for us and he has the audacity to compliment China's economy that is powered by an increase in fossil fuels that is greater than the rest of the world combined and soaring higher????
CO2 is well mixed in the global atmosphere, whether it comes from the US or China.
Wow!
Kill the USA's economy, cheer for China to grow using fossil fuels!
I started this thread by stating that I believed that Sanders was sincere in his beliefs and that I always liked him because of that and his enthusiasm and policies that would appear to be wanting to help the less fortunate.
Despite him greatly disappointing me.There are still some messages of his that I can relate to which would help poor people. He is definately the wrong messenger because of what I know about him now as I feel that his messages are not sincere.
Before becoming moderator of this forum, I never followed politics that much. Since becoming moderator I probably spend more time investigating and checking on political things/authenticity in 1 week than I did in a year before...........probably too much time but man, there is alot that you can learn about things and people when you actually do the homework. Especially if you do it, trying to be open minded/objective and let the facts steer your direction.
Like I said in the beginning
"metmike: I know that Sanders is sincere about his misguided beliefs"
"metmike: Tim, I've always liked Sanders(maybe because I was a dem the first half of my life and still stand by the old dem principles of taking care of the less fortunate in society)"
It was the facts relating to his disingenuous words and completely absurd, hypocritical positions/statements(which included his lack of understanding of the criminal justice system, something not related to climate or CO2 or the economy, which tells me that his understanding of MANY realms that a politician having the best interest of our country in mind should have, is absent or even the complete opposite of what is the reality.
So I have changed my opinion about him personally.
Sorry Bernie.
BERNIE SANDERS WANTS TO PROSECUTE OIL AND NATURAL GAS COMPANIES, BUT DOESN’T KNOW WHAT LAWS THEY VIOLATED
AUGUST 27, 2019 | WILLIAM ALLISON
metmike: As I've shown with hundreds of sources of data to prove it indisputably using authentic science, we are having a climate optimum.....best weather for life and growing crops in the last 1,000 years:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/27864/
Now read the words from Sanders website meant to scare the crap out of you so that you will vote for him and support his scheme:
The Green New Deal
https://berniesanders.com/issues/the-green-new-deal/
The climate crisis is not only the single greatest challenge facing our country; it is also our single greatest opportunity to build a more just and equitable future, but we must act immediately.
"Climate change is a global emergency. The Amazon rainforest is burning, Greenland’s ice shelf is melting, and the Arctic is on fire. People across the country and the world are already experiencing the deadly consequences of our climate crisis, as extreme weather events like heat waves, wildfires, droughts, floods, and hurricanes upend entire communities, ecosystems, economies, and ways of life, as well as endanger millions of lives. Communities of color, working class people, and the global poor have borne and will bear this burden disproportionately.
The scientific community is telling us in no uncertain terms that we have less than 11 years left to transform our energy system away from fossil fuels to energy efficiency and sustainable energy, if we are going to leave this planet healthy and habitable for ourselves, our children, grandchildren, and future generations. As rising temperatures and extreme weather create health emergencies, drive land loss and displacement, destroy jobs, and threaten livelihoods, we must guarantee health care, housing, and a good-paying job to every American, especially to those who have been historically excluded from economic prosperity."
metmike:This man is dangerous!
The massive increase in food production and lives saved from the climate optimum(cold kills many times more people and much more life than heat) has benefited the poor the most. We have rescued the planet from dangerously low levels of beneficial CO2 and the optimal level of CO2 is double the current level.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2015/05/20/cold-weather-deaths/27657269/
Most of the warming is happening at the higher latitudes, especially during the coldest times of year.
Let's think about what happens to life in the mid/high latitudes where most of us live in the Winter.
1. Plants all go dormant to survive. Otherwise they would die from the cold. Many plants do die and come back from seeds the next Spring.
2. With food supplies at a minimum for the rest of life, some of it will hibernate(frogs/toads/bats/bees/bears/turtles for instance) to survive the cold.
3. Some life will migrate south to survive, where temperatures are warmer and there is food (birds/butterflies).
This is one of the reasons why, warming the planet by 1 deg. C has been enormously beneficial to our greening planet and warming another 1 deg. will continue to be beneficial overall.
Yes, the atmosphere holds more moisture and heavy rains have increased. Some hurricanes could be stronger........but this has not happened yet.
Heat waves in the Summer have been hotter in some places(again, the coldest places have warmed the most-where its needed and its COLD that kills much more than HOT by a wide margin).
Sea levels are not accelerating higher. Violent tornadoes have decreased. Drought has NOT increased. Food production is soaring higher.
Where is the crisis.........or as Sanders wants to redefine it with the scarier word "emergency?"
To believe any of Sanders anti science, anti energy, anti economic, anti common sense stuff, you must trust him with religious faith in something that doesn't exist and can't be shown and in fact can be proven beyond all doubts to be wrong by using authentic science and objective thinking.
Since its all made up, then the question is, why are they trying to get you to believe in this made up stuff?
Bernie told us earlier in the opening statement on his Green New Deal:
The climate crisis is not only the single greatest challenge facing our country; it is also our single greatest opportunity to build a more just and equitable future, but we must act immediately.
He is selling the transfer of wealth from rich to poor with socialism in the US and also global socialism with the UN and Climate Accord.
I am all for helping the poor. We should be doing more of that..........too bad Sanders has NOT been practicing that with his personal money/actions, which include anti environmental personal behavior, while burning massive fossil fuels to advance his self centered objectives.
When somebody blatantly lies about numerous things to us, then acts like a hypocrite with their actions, how else can they be perceived?
Sanders and every democrats plan to go 100% electric car means no more corn grown for ethanol fuel. None.
Instead of blending 17,000,000,000 gallons of ethanol into gasoline. With electric cars, the EPA mandate will require blending 00,000,000,000 gallons of ethanol fuel to be used.
Under the Green New Deal, corn ethanol goes away.
This is all that need be said for the other side to win the farm vote.
The dem candidates have all been trying to out green each other with more extreme unrealistic anti energy anti economy and anti science, made up numbers but they will soon face reckoning time its one reality they can’t ignore.
All of their plans, by definition get rid of oorn grown for ethanol. No hiding from that fact much longer.
This means corn prices back below $2 with record supplies. Beans will likely be back down to $5.
There will be an additional 40 million acres, that are currently used to grow corn for ethanol that will grow crops . Much will be corn, some will be beans nd other crop. Record supplies/production will cause glut/surplus that nobody could have imagined with the climate optimum and beneficial CO2.
The green new deal is impossible of course but if it was possible, in the form that they are selling it, the above would have to be the case.
Related to this, I just updated the thread below:
Renewable energy: When can it replace fossil fuels? August 2019
BIDEN-SANDERS UNITY TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS COMBATING THE CLIMATE CRISIS AND PURSUING ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE Climate change is a global emergency
https://joebiden.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/UNITY-TASK-FORCE-RECOMMENDATIONS.pdf
The entire objective of fracking is to get fossil fuels. If you are replacing fossil fuels, which is the entire point of the Green New Deal, then you will make fracking go away(whether its banned or not).
Those electric cars will no longer use combustion engines(that burn fossil fuels) so another thing that he doesn't tell us about the Green New Deal.........it makes all corn ethanol demand go away too.
I'm shocked that Trump doesn't make that clear to the agriculture community.
What crop farmer would support an agenda(if they knew about it) that permanently eliminates corn ethanol fuel?
I believe the Green New Deal is total bs and it will never happen based on the laws of energy/chemistry/physics and economics and they are just using it as a "save the planet" scheme to get votes and massively increase carbon/energy taxes, while imposing socialism but make no mistake, if they were able to achieve the objectives of the Green New Fairly Tale, corn ethanol fuel would be completely eliminated.