Is there a deep state.
If you are talking about the entrenched bureaucracy with hundreds of thousands of hard working civil servants who work for the American people and pledge to uphold the constitution? Then yes. There is a deep state. They do not work for Donald Trump. And THAT is the essence of the rule of law. We have always had an independent Judiciary, an independent justice department, an independent investigating arm of the FBi, an independent Federal reserve and Trump has strived to undermine that independence and that rule of law. We are not Egypt or Turkey, but Trump wants that.
Are there partisans within those ranks? Of course. Why do you think Comey made it public that he was investigating Clinton? Because those inside that apparatus who were strongly opposed to Clinton winning were leaking and going to continue leaking such info to the press and/or Rudy G.
in my estimation JOJ, you have become consumed by this awful TDS that has infected so many Americans. "Do they work for trump?" are you kidding? How could you even print such a silly statement. The lead you agave should of been 95% of the deep state are good people doing god work. You do realize where the problem is. When you have unelected bureaucrats making decision way above their pay grade because of policy differences it lead to chaos. Not the way our system is set up. You have policy difference you go to the ballot box. You lose an election you do not try to illegally over turn it.
Amazing times that we live in.
The democrats, deep state and MSM working together to try to destroy Trump.
The authentic facts surrounding the Mueller investigation for 2.5 years is all one needs to know to see the biggest example of many.
Individual liberals and the democratic party that was previously, strongly for some things have suddenly become strongly against them,.............just because they MUST be against all things that Trump does.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/40542/
Their intense GROWING hatred for Trump has blinded them from seeing anything related to anything that has to do with him objectively.
People in this country who don't hate Trump or even worse do things like wear a MAGA hat, are being attacked for it.
No need to go very far to see it. Right here on the forum the evidence is all over the place. I had to ban 3 members earlier this year on MarketForum for their constant, personal attacks on others here(calling them Nazi's and racists and other names because they supported Trump)
You would think that would cause them to go away. No, I continue to get dozens of emails and contact moderator messages calling me Trumptard and 4 letters words and all sorts of hateful things.
And because I use facts to show when one side is lying, using fake news or disingenuous, hateful methods to take down Trump(like I do for the fake climate crisis), even those, whose friendships I cherished here, decided to leave because I don't hate Trump like they do.
But they will try to fool themselves into thinking that it wasn't really hate. I know hate when I see it. It's never more blatant in the messages I get from those that were banned for spreading it here.
It's disguised more from those that have decided that they can't be part of a place that doesn't have a majority who hate Trump(even though the minority, like cliff are allowed to spew hatred at will and with impunity.............other than when I give him reality and fact checks).
cliff may attack Trump neurotically and attack Trump supporters but he usually does NOT make personal attacks on others here.............to his credit, which is what caused previous posters to go bye bye after numerous warnings.
I understand completely that people want to belong to organizations and entities that share their belief system(s). This is natural. Birds of a feather, flock together as they say.
But President Trump is one person/topic here at MarketForum, amongst what is many and on the trading forum, political discussions are not even allowed. If you and me had 9 out of 10 things that we connected with strongly and with a long history(years) of doing so but on the 10th thing, it involved President Trump..........and I don't hate Trump, but you decide to end the relationship with me because of my position on Trump(when I agree with you on the majority of things about him but support his agenda)...............how can you possibly deny that your hatred for Trump is not effecting how you feel about me and is controlling your decisions?
This is what hatred does. It blinds one to other, more important realities. It causes you to overweight realms related to the hatred and underweight the more important realms. It causes you to penalize yourself and in your head, others by taking actions or having feelings of hate.
Here's the ironic thing though. We can all agree that Trump is a really, really easy guy to hate. I basically eliminated my ability to experience that emotion around 20 years ago(seriously) even though I think Trump is despicable. I have rated him here several times as a 2 or 3 on a scale of 1-10 for having character(considering that 1's are reserved for people like serial killers-that's pretty low)
But since I am able to completely take HATE out, when viewing Trump and look at what his agenda does for you, me and all Americans, I see things objectively.
Not everybody against Trump hates him but the majority that do hate him deny it and I have been seeing it in abundance here. And this hate is rationalized because the target of the hate is the easiest to hate guy in American history by a wide margin. Seriously, in some circles, up there with Adolf Hitler and the Devil.
Like most my posts, this is another epistle but there is actually a constructive purpose........not just calling out the hatred. Hating does the most damage to the haters and is most likely to eat away at them when they are in denial. Those of you that strongly oppose Trump(which is ok) and do so because of things that he says(which is ok) but insist that you are using objective facts, independent of hate should just make sure by reading what the actual definition of hate it:
https://emotiontypology.com/typology/list/hate
Then, after understanding what hate really is, ask yourself honestly if you feel that emotion when communicating, thinking about or taking actions (here or elsewhere) related to how you feel about Donald Trump.
When has hatred for another person, made the hater feel good in an unselfish, altruistic way or made the world better?
I will continue to try to minimize hatred here and will vehemently expose the biggest sources, especially the MSM.
Yes, Trump is a big source too. Do you think that everybody doesn't already know that?
If somebody makes a post that claims Trump is uniting our country as a man with love, and compassion, they'll get blasted by me. If Mike Pence was president with the same agenda, there would be much less hate.
p.s. Please spare yourself the silly justification that Republicans felt this way about Obama(as I have shown, I also defended Obama and called out hateful bashing of him).
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/34963/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/38878/
This is the year 2019 and hate in 2015 by the other party for somebody in your party, just means those haters were also wrong.
Be accountable for your feelings, statements and actions.
Hi joj,
I have heard many people talk about the “Deep State”. Their definition is quite different from yours. You call the masses of civil servants the “Deep State”, whereas the others refer to a group of entities (entities who seem to be above the President and above the House) who decide major policies of the US, such as “we will take down 7 regimes in 5 years”.
Using both definitions, you are quite correct when you say “the Deep State does not work for Trump”
Recently we learned that, in 2016, word came from “above” that said that Hillary was not be charged with anything, no matter what she did.
Does this mean, the “Deep State” worked for Hillary? Not so… according to other people’s definition of that term, the “Deep State” has favorites who they are trying to push into the WH. Some people even say, “presidents are selected, not elected”. No doubt, the 2016 election outcome was a shock to that group.
Right now, we are witnessing an incredible amount of debates, complaints and news commentaries about the Biden/Ukraine scandal.Quite clearly, Biden should be investigated. Yet, nobody is even suggesting to do so (other than Trump), and the other side is going into a frenzy blaming Trump for making this suggestion. So, what is really going on?
It’s not difficult to figure out.
PS:metmike disclosed in this current thread the hatred he is exposed to, just for keeping this forum on a polite base. Some forum members had to be kicked out.
I know, you are quite strongly anti-Trump. Yet, your posts are always polite, and I want you to know, It is appreciated
Your "Deep State" might be in some "Deep Doo Doo" (-:
"If these allegations are indeed true, then it is also true that the FBI intentionally withheld and lied about information in order to investigate Trump’s campaign. And if the FBI did indeed lie, the origins of the Russia investigation can rightly be decried as irresponsible and unnecessary.
FISA court abuses do indeed exist. And they point to a disturbing rot in the justice system: unelected political appointees taking power into their own hands to surveil and investigate political topics under the guise of national security. This goes beyond Trump, Mueller, and the rest. This is about a total lack of transparency and accountability in a government that is supposed to work for us. We need answers, and it looks like we’re about to get them."
metmike: My guess is that the intelligence community and justice system, being the gatekeepers that they are, will refuse to acknowledge this and refuse to prosecute its own crimes. and will paint this as Trump and his people making up a conspiracy theory to cover Trump crimes of doing what they did.
The best way to cover your crime, is to accuse your accuser of doing what you did.
https://theaimn.com/accuse-enemy-guilty-cia-fake-news-conspiracy/
I wonder how JOJ would feel about the "deep state" had Strzock said "Don't worry, we'll stop Hillary from becoming president", or had the IRS targeted liberal groups, or any other numbers of documented corruption and weaponization of federal agencies?
I suspect he'd be using many of the same adjectives he currently reserves for Trump.