Protests main cause of second surge per this:
Opinions?
You and anyone else who cites ANYTHING from PJ media which is a deranged crack pot right wing kook web site are doing so SOLELY for political reason
Scott Atlas, M.D., a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, told Fox News this weekend
This is pretty simple .
This argument fails because it does NOT match the data
FACT 1 the vast majority of the protests as we all know were in NORTHERN states
FACT 2 the vast majority of the massive explosive growth in cases in JUNE has been in the SOUTHERN STATES
here are the NORTHERN STATES
CONCLUSION the data shows that this argument/theory is 100% bullshit. It is 100% politically driven
Dave,
You are a very dishonest man. I busted you badly for your cherry picking those graphs and your biased interpretation.............and here you are trying to pull the same fraudulent trick again.
So here I go again in showing everybody the OBJECTIVE truth.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/55092/
By metmike - July 11, 2020, 10:54 a.m.
You continue to mis characterize others statements, then use cherry picked, misleading data to show why that person is wrong in an intentionally deceptive way.
1. Dave says: "you can keep arguing until you're blue in the face that all the social protesting in the NORTHERN STATES is what is causing the outbreaks in the cases in the southern states."
2. metmike actually said: "Some is surely from opening up and poor habits/lack of precautions and some from the protests."
3. Dave said: "In fact there very few if any significant BLM protests in GA SC NC FL TX AZ LA MO TN AL"
4. metmike PROVED above(using DAVE's EXACT WORDS)
That would be 135 cities where significant protests are being held in the 10 states that Dave said this about: "there very few if any significant BLM protests"
Many of those cities have been having numerous protests.
5. THis one is where you show your true BIASED colors Dave and I'm disappointed in you for trying to pass this off as objective.
You outlined around a dozen high population states, which obviously have had the most protesting, then cherry picked the 4 states that had the highest peaks in the Spring to compare today's numbers with(where herd immunity is also becoming a factor) and completely left out others that showed the complete opposite of what you want to show.
California for instance(where rates have gone from less than 2,500 to over 8,000 and almost a 4 fold increase)
metmike:What makes this despicably deceptive, is this
https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article244065197.html
I could make a very strong case that this is powerful evidence that this massive increase is mainly from protesting.
Same thing in OR rates up almost 4 times since the protests started
.png)
And from Washington(what a coincidence, the exact same age and racial profile of the protesters):
New reports: COVID-19 cases rising fastest among minorities, young people
6. In the Southern States, they are in fact having the highest rate of increase because of opening up and the significant protesting(at 135 cities). How much is from each factois impossible to know but its protester age and racial make up experiencing the HIGHEST increase is the same.
7. All these Southern states came from very low numbers, to start(THIS IS WHY THEY OPENED UP and the others with really high rates DID NOT OPEN UP) and with the highest % in the population vulnerable............including protesters that have been led to believe that wearing a mask,protects them, even in environments with no regards for social distancing with hundreds of thousands of REAL people in REAL protests smashed together during the most contagious pandemic in our lives.
8. Why didn't you show any of the many states that have had even LESS protesting, than the Southern States and OPENED up but did not have similar increases to those experienced in the South?
9. At least half of the new cases are from the increase in testing. You can't quadruple the testing from April and not measure many more cases that were not measured before.
10. You are a very clever guy Dave but you ran into the wrong person............a scientist armed with the objective data that sees exactly what you did to try to trick people that don't have the data.
11. Speaking of which, you were very critical of my views on climate change and I responded to you with a reality check and have asked you(4 previous times) a meteorologist to look over my 3 dozen posts on this (using authentic data) and tell me what I have wrong. Please give me examples of the crisis happening NOW in the REAL world, using objective, authentic data. You seem to have read all the other posts, so I know that you are not responding for a reason. You started it, with the attack on my position, so let's settle it with the authentic science between 2 meteorologists.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/54938/
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Re: Re: Re: COVID data/graphs #5 July 4th
By metmike - July 11, 2020, 12:56 p.m.
Tim started a thread on GA earlier, which caused me to look up their stats.............it shows an overwhelming profound LEGIT link to the big increase in protesting NO link to reopening.
How do we know that?
GA was the very first state to re open in late April, with much criticism, even from President Trump for opening up TOO SOON.
See the graph below: https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en
New cases actually went down more in May and were steady in early June, despite testing doubling(so the real rates were much lower for over 6 weeks after reopening, then suddenly during the 2nd half of June, rates tripled.
What the heck could have caused then?
Rayshard Brooks was killed in Atlanta on June 14th and the MASSIVE protesting began immediately and has continued.
.png)
By Dakin Andone, Natasha Chen and Kevin Conlon, CNN
Updated 5:58 PM ET, Fri May 15, 2020
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/15/business/georgia-reopening-3-weeks-later/index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53047282
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"there has been no significant rise in the northern states with covid-19 cases weather has been massive numbers and persistent social protesting. The data shows that and anything else is nonsense"
False,
Whats true is that there was no significant rise in the northern states that you cherry picked and chose to display.
The Northeast states are coming down from massive spikes higher in the Spring.
Oregon and Washington are northern states with persistent social protesting that have seen cases quadruple since the protests started.
I already showed you Oregon, Washingtons increase is similar.
So do blacks use more air conditioning or are they more likely to go to a BLM protest?
I didn't cherry pick the ages or race of those getting COVID at the higher rates and I used GA because of unique FACTS that only affected GA relating to THEIR protesting that ramped up after June 14th and THEM being the first to open up.
Other states have other things going on that don't provide us with the same characteristics which allow us to separate out the variables like we can do for GA. It's right there in the data.
"Glynn County — home to popular beach getaways that attract tourists from across the nation — has become a hot spot for the coronavirus disease, according to an Atlanta Journal-Constitution analysis of state health data."
"Home to about 85,000 people, Glynn now ranks second among Georgia’s 159 counties for its growth in the number of COVID-19 cases over the last 14 days per 100,000 residents. At the same time, the Brunswick metro area is experiencing the sixth worst outbreak in the nation, based on its numbers of newly reported cases over the same time frame, according to a New York Times report."
"The disease could have also spread amid the many protests for racial justice that have popped up across the Brunswick area since the Feb. 23 killing of Ahmaud Arbery, said Davis. Arbery, a 25-year-old Black man, was gunned down after three white men pursued him through a neighborhood just outside the city."
https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-news/cases-coronavirus-disease-surging-along-georgia-coast/0hSjaEQE0HbVtb1LdOdzUI/
BTW Dave,
2 of the 4 northern states that you cherry picked because you thought they would show what you want readers to think............show the opposite of it(your data is a week old on those graphs too).
Michigan has had some tough laws.........but there new case rates have almost tripled now since mid June..........at least a large part from protesting.
The new case rate has doubled in Illinois.
The only reason it doesn't look more impressive is because those northern states that you showed had massive, massive spikes higher in April to compare the recent increase to.
Hi Wx
I have stood with you many times to not be banned from the forum
But adjectives such as crack pot etc. don't do your character any good
I know you don't want anybody to tell you what to do
I think this kind of language makes you feel better inside. sort of releasing the anger
So I am asking you to please post with some intelligient language
This kind of language lowers your character
People think of you as the crack pot
People think you are a very angry person
Maybe you are angry but if you make your points with some decent languaage people would take you more seriously
I skipped through your posts
It just did not mean much to me
I know you can express yourself much better than I can
Do you think I may have some thing valid to say about your language
I dunno maybe you don't want to make any changes but your posts are not reaching me with language like this. Other post I read but yours is the only one I skim when you use this kind of adjectives
You see Wx the forum is one of the few things I can do these days because of my age and other things
I don't even know how to do the social media thing. I can't do a link
Why would you want to disappoint me Wx ???
Wayne,
I recently told you that I have noticed positive growth in you as a person, especially after you shrugged off an attack on you by Dave.
This post, however goes even beyond that.
From the heart about something that is offensive to you, which is hurting the forum..........causing you to skip past Dave's posts. Trying to be very tactful, objective and understanding in your analysis while making solid points of authentic criticism based on facts.
And most importantly, trying to help Dave to be a much better communicator. You are to be highly commended.........thanks!
I have always been a confrontational scientist because I am fanatical my devotion to science critical thinking and reasoning. PJ media is a crackpot website. Sorry that's not going to change and if that bothers you ….oh well
Hi Wx
I have stood with you many times to not be banned from the forum
But adjectives such as crack pot etc. don't do your character any good
I know you don't want anybody to tell you what to do
I think this kind of language makes you feel better inside. sort of releasing the anger
So I am asking you to please post with some intelligient language
This kind of language lowers your character
People think of you as the crack pot
People think you are a very angry person
Maybe you are angry but if you make your points with some decent languaage people would take you more seriously
I skipped through your posts
It just did not mean much to me
I know you can express yourself much better than I can
Do you think I may have some thing valid to say about your language
I dunno maybe you don't want to make any changes but your posts are not reaching me with language like this. Other post I read but yours is the only one I skim when you use this kind of adjectives
You see Wx the forum is one of the few things I can do these days because of my age and other things
I don't even know how to do the social media thing. I can't do a link
Why would you want to disappoint me Wx ???
Yes it's true that in some of those 10 states southern states here have been over 100 protests.
BUT in those northern states there has been five times that ...many maybe 10
so you cite the number of protest in the southern states but of course you don't cite the number of protest in the northern states so we can compare the two.
You just take these Southern States and use it to buttress your argument and ignore the issue of proportionality.
talk about cherry picking.
"I have always been a confrontational scientist because I am fanatical my devotion to science critical thinking and reasoning"
I have been practicing the scientific method diligently for the past 36 years and you my friend are breaking every rule. Are we to also assume that name calling, personal attacks and disrespecting others are part of Dave's scientific method too.
What you are really doing however, is thinking that people will buy into your justification of this inexcusable, offensive behavior because you are fanatical in your devotion to science.
Ironically, I really can't think of another person that reminds me of President Trump as much as you do Dave.
I very much appreciate and respect our regular posters who were targets for personal attacks and called names here for not allowing Dave to get them upset(even mcfarm seems to have made an effort).
He was warned over and over, with numerous specific examples of his blatant offenses and has had more lives than that cat with 9 lives.......but as moderator here, I have no choice.
Any posts made by Dave after 9pm Eastern on the NTR forum will be deleted thru the rest of the month. This gives Dave a few hours to say his last words on the NTR forum for awhile if he wants.
I will allow his trading posts to stay, where "Good Dave" is capable of shining and making positive contributions but any violations there, will result in us having to say "bye bye" to Dave.
This has never been done before and requires a bit of extra work vs just banning him but part of the reason is I know that Larry especially wanted Dave to behave and appreciates his weather posts.
I don't want to get into picking and choosing what uncivil political posts must go because some of them will feature a confrontation or disagreement with me............and I actually enjoy those the most personally(especially criticisms on my climate change position) because it provides wonderful opportunities to use AUTHENTIC facts and science to support positions.
I would be torn between deleting the post and wanting to respond to it as well as being accused of deleting things because they disagree vs because Dave called the other person a moron, or racist or a-hole or ignorant or delusional or liar as well as his penchant for making up facts.
So it's best to have no more NTR posting for Dave for awhile.
Lessons for Dave and others to learn from Dave's posting on the thread below:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/55925/
By metmike - July 15, 2020, 2:19 p.m.
Dave to metmike: "typical ignorant right wing bable"
metmike:
1. I'm not right wing or a Republican, I am an independent with several quite liberal positions.
2. Making unkind references/insults to peoples opinions wins exactly ZERO discussions/debates in the forum of objective observers opinion.
3. Here are some good suggestions for you Dave:
a. Read and listen to what the other person says. Don't make up you own version or assume you know what they want to say before reading it, then thinking about it.
b. If you disagree with them. State something that they actually have wrong, then show facts to prove that you are right. Don't make up your own stuff, mischaracterizing their opinion to make it the one you want to attack, then do't make up your own facts.............don't cherry pick data that shows only a small part of the picture, while ignoring everything else.
c. Even if you were to be successful at a. and b. you will lose just as many points in a debate by calling names, making personal attacks and lobbing insults. Using foul language also sets you back. My experience though, is that people act this way BECAUSE they are being crushed in a debate. Being respectful and civil should be the #1 priority if you intend to be seen as credible.
d. Changing bad behavior like this after decades of bullying and trying to intimadate people that usually will not have as much skill as you for using the internet/graphs and so on to manufacture bs will be a hard habit for you to break Dave. However, when somebody really wants to improve themselves, the only thing holding them back is.................themselves. Making a committment to improving is the easy part. Applying it consistently with discipline is the hard part................but it becomes easier and easier with time.
4. Maybe this is the most important item.
I'll put it on another page so that it stands out for you.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Roger Stone Clemency Trump Rewarding His Friends
By metmike - July 15, 2020, 2:26 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/50115/
Hate is the most destructive emotion of all.
"It will cause you to lower and violate the previous standards that you set for yourself for ethical behavior and honestly because this emotion drives you to hurt the person that you hate more than those previous standards cause you to follow the truth and be objective...............and act professionally, with integrity.
It will cause you to do and say things that are harmful to you and your reputation when the hate becomes neurotic because you become so obsessed with harming the hated person that rational thinking no longer applies.
Your interpretation of circumstances involving the hated person becomes so blatantly skewed that the hoped for endpoint in every realm is always for them to be hurt.
Hate blackens the heart and soul of the hater. It can ruin personal relationships and ironically, more often than not destroys the hater, not the target of their hatred.
This emotion drives the thoughts of many people when it comes to any issue involving President Trump."
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I see here that you have already received this message from me. You don't appear to be making the progress we'd hoped for Dave. You should do this for yourself but if you choose against doing so, I will eventually give up on you and stop your tearing down of our forum.
Use pj and wxfollower as good examples of posting for non right wing types, if that helps.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/55059/