.

 This could easily be a coincidence.

Tucker Carlson spent a fair amount of time trying to educate on disinformation last nite, if you want I bet its on the internet somewhere....very good segment, as he usually is

hey, mcfarm, I was trying to be sarcastic

In a normal community, people with opposing views engage in debate.  In today's world, every comment that opposes the official line of propaganda is labelled as "disinformation", 

so sorry Gunter, I missed that and should of known...I will edit that emabarrassment

no need to apologize, mcfarm... I should have known better... it's important to let readers know that sarcasm was intended. A long time ago, TimNew suggested having a sarcasm font.

To go with infowars, now you have a couple of other wacko  antivax sources:

Children’s Health Defense Team, Guest
Waking Times

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-waking-times/

Gunter,

I am not saying that they are always wrong about everything. 

Every once in awhile they hit a home run, when the MSM is covering something up...........ala the Mueller investigation and Roger Stone arrest.

I will ALWAYS look  objectively at what they have first and view it as a scientist, along with facts to support or debunk it.

But I can tell you from experience, the track record of those 3 sources is really bad.

metmike, with all due respect, I did post a link to the original scientific research paper.

Should this paper be discredited, because a site like inforwars, etc, mentioned it?

BTW, infowars has also spoken out against the "climate emergency"

"BTW, infowars has also spoken out against the "climate emergency"

Gunter,

So glad you mentioned that.

This is where your belief system is fatally  flawed. It's defined based on taking a side or aligning with a side that has your belief system. 

I look for objective truths, especially in science and care less who states what. Facts, empirical data, authentic science.............evidence.

One side does not have it all right and the other one all wrong as most people act.

I could care less what  infowars, Trump, CNN, NPR, the Pope or anybody says or thinks about climate change when forming my opinion. 

I will pay attention to numerous climate scientists, including Dr. Roy Spencer but mostly base it on their work which can be backed up with data, not their words.

Many sources give us information based on telling it the way we want to hear it. I actually spend as much or more time listening to sources that have it wrong. I don't want to miss any good points that they might have is part of the reason, so I can make adjustments.

We don't learn anything just listening to sources that just repeat what we think that we know. 

metmike, the intention of my original post was simply to present a scientific research paper, written by an immunologist. The fact that infowars brought it to my attention, should be irrelevant.

However, as has happened right here, this paper is discarded, only because infowars had the nerve to present it.

No doubt, people who are running this show don't like to hear what this paper is saying.. it goes against the currently presented "science", or should I say "partyline"?

I am not an immunologist. However, if I was one, I would study this paper very carefully. 

Logically speaking, it will be very difficult for anybody to present facts, showing that this paper is wrong... for the simple reason that none of our vaccine campanies has done any clinical studies researching the long-term effects of their Covid vaccines. They all rushed their research (at "Warp speed") to beat their competitors. Very often, when important projects are rushed, mistakes are made, or important things are overlooked.

Quite frankly when you look at the scary fine-print that comes with so many  pharmaceutical products, I would be quite hesitant to take something that's created at "Warp Speed " 

Because I respect your views and you as a person Gunter, I took a closer look at this immunologist.

In my opinion, the guy is not credible. Nobody in science has been able to duplicate the results of his main study claiming that vaccinations hurt people. If his position was moderate or his claims not so ultra extreme, then I would find him more credible.

Here is some evidence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Bart_Classen

"He is best known for publishing research concluding that vaccines, in particular the Hib vaccine, cause insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus,^[3] a hypothesis he proposed based on experiments he conducted on mice in 1996.^[4] His views are disputed and considered unverified."

metmike: That was 26+ years ago.  There are in fact new discoveries made in medicine all the time that surprise people but when the rest of the doctors/science still disagree with what you think is a discovery and can't duplicate your results..............26 years later, maybe its time to reconsider.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

President Trump Challenged by Immunologist J. Bart Classen, MD of Classen Immunotherapies to Stop Dangerous Vaccine Policies

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/president-trump-challenged-by-immunologist-j-bart-classen-md-of-classen-immunotherapies-to-stop-dangerous-vaccine-policies-300481652.html

"As you know  vaccines cause chronic immune disorders such as autism, diabetes, asthma, allergies and multiple different autoimmune diseases. Because of vaccines these diseases are increasing at epidemic proportions. It has been estimated that 50% of adults in the USA have diabetes or prediabetes."

Vaccines, Not Diet, Are Causing Epidemic Of Obesity And Type 2 Diabetes According To New Paper From Classen Immunotherapies Inc

https://www.biospace.com/article/releases/vaccines-not-diet-are-causing-epidemic-of-obesity-and-type-2-diabetes-according-to-new-paper-from-classen-immunotherapies-inc-/

metmike: I could not find one study that supported his position. Every study I looked at indicated that some  people, genetically are more at risk to a vaccination triggering an autoimmune response/disorder that goes beyond the intended one of the vaccine but the benefits are light years greater by preventing the disease in almost everybody than the possible risk in a tiny population:

Do Vaccines Have a Role as a Cause of Autoimmune Neurological Syndromes?

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.00361/full

Conclusions

Most of the associations between vaccines and nervous system autoimmune syndromes that have been reported as severe adverse events following immunization are no longer evidenced when well-conducted epidemiological studies are carried out. Biological plausibility of the autoimmune mechanisms associated with the temporal proximity between vaccine administration and disease development can be misleading. Moreover, bad epidemiological evaluations can worsen the final judgement and lead to conclusions very far from reality. Although the rarity of autoimmune diseases makes it difficult to strictly exclude that, albeit exceptionally, some vaccines may induce an autoimmune neurological disease, no definitive demonstration of a potential role of vaccines in causing autoimmune neurological syndromes is presently available. The fear of neurological autoimmune disease cannot limit the use of the most important preventive measure presently available against infectious diseases.

metmike: The chance of dying from COVID appears to be  10,000 times greater than dying from the vaccine.

Can a vaccination possibly trigger an autoimmune disease?  Maybe.

I have an autoimmune disease Gunter. My mom, myself and 2 siblings that take after my mom have this. I suspect a severe staff infection that I got in 1983 might have triggered it. If they had a vaccine for staff and I used it prior to 1983 and I never got the infection,  then  maybe I would not have had ankylosing spondilitis.

That's the huge point here.

The vaccine MIGHT trigger an autoimmune disease in some people. Let's say it was 2% of the people vaccinated. Those same people, if they did not get vaccinated but got the actual disease would FOR SURE have an even more powerful autoimmune response by their body. That's the way it works. In addition, even more people that would not have an autoimmune response to the vaccine, WOULD have a permanent autoimmune response to the actual disease.

Sort of like alot of meds we might take. Yeah, there are potential side affects for some of them that MIGHT happen but if the potential side affect of not taking it is several orders of magnitude worse, even death, why would somebody not take the med?

thank you for all this information, especially the info on Dr Classen

YW Gunter!

Interesting side note to share with you....and why I can understand your concerns.

I got my 2nd Pfizer shot yesterday. 

When I was researching for the previous post on this doctor and reading his claims and warnings, I was thinking about my own auto immune disease and started wondering "what if he is correct?" 

"Getting the shot tomorrow, could set off my autoimmune disorder and really mess me up the rest of my life"

I thought more: "getting just 1 Pfizer shot, would still protect me 70%, maybe thats good enough and I shouldn't tempt fate"

I took my 85 year old mother in law with me and actually had to talk her into getting the shot a month ago because she was afraid of it(one of my wifes paramoid sisters caused that) and was also a bit worried about what might happen to her. She has severe rheumatoid arthritis, which is an autoimmune disorder.

Then, I had to let the facts get control of my mind again to offset the emotions.

No need to repeat the facts that were stated earlier this week in the above posts.

We both got the shot. My arm is pretty sore but hurts less than several places on my body that were hurting before the shot. 

Otherwise, I feel great.

OK, maybe I didn't show the reasons that vaccines are safe earlier:

You can get that here:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/65955/#65976

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/65955/#65977