The obvious objective is to answer the questions about Bidens cognitive decline by creating a false narrative about Biden being healthy and capable enough to be ready for a 2nd term(even as he struggles at the start of his 1st term).

Then, repeat the false narrative over and over and over and people will believe it.

This is just human nature..............and it works much of the time.

Taken from the same playbook used to control us:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/67004/#67011

"metmike: To me, this just reinforces an indisputable method for using schemes to affect human behavior. They do this all the time with tv commercials or political ads that most of us know are total bs........but somehow, it's worth spending many billions of $ on.

You can completely overcome the lack of truth or lack of evidence/empirical data or lack of validity of your position or product/service. Simply manufacture a "subjective reality" based "alternate facts" and repeat it over and over and over. Despite this representing a false narrative and science fiction much of the time, the key element to success is REPETITION. 

If you repeat a lie often enough and people hear it for 3 decades, for instance, they accept it as the truth.

Once that you accept something as the truth. It can take 20 times more information to change your mind and often that isn't enough, even if your mind believes a complete lie."

Cognitive bias!

List of cognitive biases

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

These days, the Onion is often closer to the truth than MSM.  

The difference in coverage between now and last year is no less than astounding.

Thanks Tim!

Nice being on the same page with you, which is most of the time here but especially appreciate your not taking differences in opinions personal and being a "snowflake"  and unable to deal with it.............then, leaving the forum over it.

If I walked away from a friend everytime I disagreed,  I'd have no friends.

I often agree with Thomas Jefferson,   and on this as much as any.

"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson to William Hamilton, April 22, 18001

My position on that has always been. All opinions are very welcome here, those that disagree with me are the MOST welcome. 

If you feel that Marketforum is dominated by views that are different than yours and you are outnumbered but still feel that your opinions are important and will go someplace else to share them..........then you are just looking for an echo chamber with people like yourself.....saying the same things and reinforcing each others belief systems to make people like yourself feel good. 

I am fully aware of the huge bias of posters here to be affiliated with the right on the political spectrum........and when they/you get out of line, I will give you/them a few pieces of my mind, using facts....like the fake Biden election steal. 

The recent exchange between Tim and I was not necessarily me giving Tim a piece of  my mind as much as it was Tim, showing the courage to defend his position(even if I still think that its wrong) even when he's at a disadvantage because I'm the moderator..........and be a mature adult that doesn't get upset and go off in a huff. 

And I do cherish our friendship!

 I don't know at this point about Biden being cognitively fit by the time 2024 gets here. I just want someone who could beat Trump again in 2024. Anyone! Geez, I'd even take Mickey Mouse!

 At this point, I think Biden has overall done only a mediocre job. However, it far beats the nut Trump being POTUS now!!

After what Trump did with his attempted steal of the election (ironically!) as well as his lack of support for the transition, his encouragement of the Capitol insurrection, his encouraging Pence to violate the Constitution, and his putting Pence's life in danger, Trump is in no way fit to ever hold public office of any kind again!

Geez, I'd even take Mickey Mouse!

IMO,  he just ran, and won.  So you're not alone.  I sincerely doubt Trump could make it through another primary.  If he runs 3rd party, and you certainly can't rue that out,  he'll ensure a dem victory for the whitehouse.

Larry,

I also would take Mickey Mouse over Trump but would prefer Bozo T. Clown between the 2 (-:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/28826/#29333

This comes from  somebody who gave Trump credit for his accomplishments, for 4 years,  despite his despicable character flaws previous to getting clearly beaten by Biden. Beaten using every standard of authenticity in existence and seen obviously by anyone with any objectively at all.....Trumps actions after the election went well beyond despicable but they were diabolical and criminal, in my opinion.

They should disqualify him from every holding public office.

There are people spending the rest of their lives in prison for legit crimes that did much less damage than Trump did to people heads and this country and our democratic system and the confidence in our elections.

We hear things like..........."but metmike, there really was fraud in the 2020 presidential election and we just want to expose the fraud to have better elections"

That absurd position is laughable.  If Trump had won, not one of these people would be crying out for more investigations. They would not even have that position nor would they have invented all these fraud allegations, most proven with facts to be bogus. You ain't fooling metmike, only yourself.

Isn't it odd too, that all this alleged fraud took place in just 6 states..............the ones that Trump lost by the closest margins and would have needed to flip the election to Biden. 

According to them: The other 44 states did not have much fraud. In the states where Trump won, they were all the epitome of how to run an election. 

I've heard this explanation for that:

"metmike, the reason for all the fraud in those 6 states is that those were the states they could use fraud in to win"  Still no evidence that there was anything close to enough widespread fraud in any one of those states to flip the election but when your mind is convinced of something.............evidence that proves you wrong doesn't matter. 

This all falls on deaf ears to those that think that Bidens side stole the election.

It's all about this:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/67004/#67011

Both sides do it to control the brains of their followers. They all see it clearly.................when it's happening to the other side, while they are victims of the same thing from the side which supports their belief system. 

We hear things like..........."but metmike, there really was fraud in the 2020 presidential election and we just want to expose the fraud to have better elections"

That absurd position is laughable.

Continue  to ignore the facts I have presented which, in spite of your claims, you have not even addressed, let alone refuted.  But calling the position "absurd" says far more about you than me.

Because I like you so much Tim (-:     I’ll go back and find the posts addressing this.......AGAIN.

Human nature has a way of causing us to remember things the way we want to remember them.....especially when our brains are being bombarded with manufactured facts that we want to believe after that.

You  don't have to.  We can do it right here.

The only argument you've made, with which I agree was that the ballot counts were accurate. Audits proved that.  COunts were fine.  Ballots were not.

You've claimed that all cases by Trump et.al.  were rejected by the courts because they had no merit.

I proved that is a false statement and linked the Michigan Supreme court 4-3 decision where the courts refused to hear the data.   This was similar in many cases.  Yes,  some had no merit.  Many dd not.

You claimed that fraud in a few select states proved there was no fraud.    I countered that strategically,  they only needed most/all of the 6 states.   Its specious for both of us,  but your argument is flawed.  That there may not have been fraud in all states did not prove there was no fraud in any states.

I have repeatedly demonstrated that the election roles are hopelessly flawed with election boards refusing to address them.  I saw several examples of people voting in multiple states.   That is first hand from election meetings in my county.   Its certainly not proof in multiple counties,  but is mine unique within the state/country?   Apparently, there is evidence to the contrary.

In spite of numerous presentations of apparent forgery on ballot signatures,   repeated attempts at real audits of absentee ballots were stonewalled, and have not yet taken place. Seems unlikely to happen at this point. 

These are the high points.  Mostly first hand knowledge gained from election hearings in my county.   Is it proof the election was stolen?  Not in and of itself,  but serious questions were raised and ignored.   In Ga,  the margin was 12k, razor thin.

Calling these questions absurd is baseless at best.

"You claimed that fraud in a few select states proved there was no fraud."

This is absolutely NOT what I claimed, which is why I need to go back and show you exactly what my previous statements have been.

I have brought up and showed the real fraud that occurred in EVERY state numerous times.

Here are a few of my posts, I noted that you were also part of these recent discussions:

             https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/66599/#66767  

By metmike - March 17, 2021, 1:02 p.m.            

A Sampling of Recent Election Fraud Cases from Across the United States

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

"Where is the correlation of fraud with the closest elections?"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                By metmike - March 17, 2021, 1:07 p.m.            

            Wonderful discussion here:

The truth about voter fraud:

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is me busting the total BS by Mike Lindell(for the umpteenth time) with the numerous links in there to previous total busting of the widespread BS alleged fraud. Again Tim, because I bust fake alleged fraud repeatedly, as I showed you, that doesn't mean that you can mischaracterize me as believing there was NO fraud,  I also acknowledge that there is REAL fraud and even show the REAL fraud in numerous places recently.

                mike lindells election tape            

                Started by mcfarm - Feb. 6, 2021, 8:58 a.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/65299/

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Back in a minute  with more.

I was always in support of Trump making LEGAL challenges to the results:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62389/#62501

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62389/#62549

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62128/#62358

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And again, I have pointed out LEGIT, proven fraud here numerous times and I would greatly appreciate it, Tim if you would STOP mischaracterizing my position on this(you claim that I believe there was no fraud-reality is that nobody has been looking for it harder than me and you guys just didn't like what I found!)............just so that you can attack it. 

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/61115/#61121

                Re: Re: Re: Poll - Who won the Election?            

                0 likes            

                By metmike - Nov. 11, 2020, 7:24 p.m.            

A Sampling of Recent Election Fraud Cases from Across the United States

                  The Heritage Foundation’s Election Fraud Database presents a sampling of recent proven instances of election fraud from across the country. This database is not an exhaustive or comprehensive list. It does not capture all cases and certainly does not capture reported instances that are not investigated or prosecuted.  It is intended to demonstrate the vulnerabilities in the election system and the many ways in which fraud is committed.  In addition to diluting the votes of legitimate voters, fraud can have an impact in close elections, and we have many close elections in this country. Preventing, deterring, and prosecuting election fraud is essential to protecting the integrity of our voting process.  Reforms intended to ensure such integrity do not disenfranchise voters and, in fact, protect their right to vote.  Winning elections leads to political power and the incentives to take advantage of security vulnerabilities are great, so it is important that we take reasonable steps to make it hard to cheat, while making it easy for legitimate voters to vote. 

1,298 Proven instances of voter fraud

1,121 Criminal convictions

48 Civil penalties

95 Diversion program

17 Judicial finding

17 Official finding

          Search the Database    

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

metmike: Go to WI for instance. Over 40 convictions which means many times more than that which they decided not to prosecute or they lost because they did not have overwhelming evidence and many, many times more that were never caught. 

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=WI&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=All&page=0

You claimed that fraud in a few select states proved there was no fraud."

This is absolutely NOT what I claimed, which is why I need to go back and show you exactly what my previous statements have been.

I have brought up and showed the real fraud that occurred in EVERY state numerous times.

I looked for the specifc discussion and just don't have the time.  You have asked the question, "Why was there only fraud in 6 states?   Why were they the only ones looked at"   or to that effect.

I wil retract my statement that you claimed no fraud.  That is not a fair representation.  But you seemed, as I recall, to discount the possibility that perhaps the dems targeted specific states.

You have also made the claim, or so I recall,  that all the election law suits were dismissed for lack of merit.  Did I misread that?   As I demonstrated in Michigan, the 4-3 decision was to not even hear the evidence.  I can repost the dissenting opinion again if you like. The same is true for many decisions in several states.

My main claim is that the voter roles are hopelessly flawed and easily prone to fraud.  

People who have moved, people who have died, people ineligible to vote for assorted reasons.  Then add in mass mailings of mail in ballots.  And for good measure, ballot harvesting and we have a cess pool of potential fraud.

Not only have no efforts been made to look into it, any effort has been squashed. And  from what I have seen first hand in Ga,  it raises serious questions about the 12k margin here.  

I have always argued that there is voter fraud similar to what you mentioned going back to way back when.

Tim, here is the entire problem this time and why it got so messed up. 

Trump and his associates decided to do a full court press, throwing everything ........including the kitchen sink and alot of other items that they didn't have to descredit the results of this election.........throwing as much mud as possible and hoping for some of it to stick.

Where this backfired...............monumentally in the objective minds of people like metmike, is that they made tons and tons of promises that could not be delivered and tons and tons of frivolous and false allegations some that PROVED without a shadow of a doubt were fake.

Here is a metmike, irrefutable  rule to live by in life regarding credibility.

There are many realms in which we are not experts or don't have enough information to tell what side is authentic and which is not when there are sharp disagreements between 2 authorities. 

One way to help you discern is to watch both sides. If one side violates the truth on numerous occasions, claiming to be in search of the truth.....DO NOT trust them.

Trump and pals violated the truth every which way but Sunday trying to smear the other side and discredit the results of the election....often in convincing fashion.

I stated here several times, late in the game that I would continue to investigate each situation and try to remain objective but I wouldn't know how to recognize the truth from Trump's side because it would look exactly like all their lies.

Credibility = ZERO when that happens.

I am not basing my conclusions on Trump.  His main claim was "miscounting votes", and that has been soundly disproven.  He also claims that there were districts with far more votes than registered voters.   There may be a few cases of this,  but nothing significant.

Where the focus needed to be was on the legitimacy of the ballots.

And here's the thing.  I have no proof that there were enough illegitimate votes to affect the outcome.   I certainly think that is a possibility.  But I also know that the courts and assorted state agencies have squashed any efforts to audit voter roles and absentee signatures.

Here in Ga, the ping pong game continues.  Counties tell us the authority for the audit falls under the Secy of State.  The Secy of State tells us it's at the county level. And the courts tell us to ask the Secy of State. And people have all but given up trying.  AT this point,  the election is carved in stone.  So the Ga Senate is working on sweeping reform, which of course is labeled as "Voter Suppression" by you know who.  Voter ID is such a burden.  Signature Verification is such a bottle neck.  The sorts of arguments presented, IMO, by people who really like the idea of voter fraud. 

And of course,  we have the media, who should be looking into this, ensuring us that this "Was The Most Secure Election In History" and that "All LawSuits over the Election Were Dismissed Due to Lack Of Merit". But this is not true.  Some of the law suits were frivilous.  Mainly the farces focusing on "MisCounting".  But the suits asking for audits of ballots, signatures were not even heard.  If you read the decisions,  Michigan being the only example I've presented, they refused to even look at evidence.  There was literally no day in court for ballot legitimacy. 

Again, and finally,  I have no proof that there were enough illegitimate ballots to sway the election. Maybe there were enough errors on both sides to cancel each other out.  But when you see what appear to be concerted efforts to keep you from even looking at the evidence,  you get a little suspicious. 

One more note.     I've seen the "Election Fraud" compared to the "Russia Colusion Hoax",  but they are quite different.

On the Colusion hoax, millions of dollars and man hours were spent over 2+ years to chase down even the most specious suspicion.

On Ballot legitimacy?  The  main effort was to suppress investigation.

"On the Collusion hoax, millions of dollars and man hours were spent over 2+ years to chase down even the most specious suspicion."

Good points Tim, there is extraordinary, monumental bias in the system. 

The totally corrupt Mueller investigation was totally started to target and smear Trump. Loooong after they knew Trump did not collude, they continued to investigate Trump associates, actually finding and creating crimes(like setting them up to tell lies, then charging them with perjury-crimes that did not exist before the investigation)

Keep it going as long as possible while the MSM and Dems wildly speculate on Trump being traitor and colluding with Russia for 2.5 years, convincing the people.............until most people assume its the truth.  

That's the strategy today by gatekeepers. Manufacture your own facts and realities and repeat them over and over and over and after awhile, people accept it as the truth.

This is not metmike speculating on a unique, never used before strategy, it's straight out of the "Brainwashing 101" playbook.

They've been using it on us for decades but most effectively, recently with the fake climate crisis.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/67004/#67011

Here's the thing that you and republicans will disagree with(we quickly recognize when others are brainwashed but never ourselves).

Every republican knows with absolute certainty that the system is rigged against them. I just gave your the quintessential evidence that it really is.....more rigged against Trump than any person in history.

You ALL agree on that.

That's exactly what made the election steal from Trump so EASY to sell. 

If you know that somebody is proven crooked, then you just can't trust them in anything. The problem with that belief is that the 2 events and actions were controlled by 2 completely independent entities. 

The elections are not controlled by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats that can rig the system to do what they want it to.....like they did with the Mueller investigation.

They are MUCH, MUCH more transparent. As I have showed, they do feature many, many incidents of individual and mostly isolated fraud. It has always been that way because of dishonest humans. 

We can clearly see the bias this time by just noting one side, that was thrilled with the election results last time, Trump winning, using similar fraud to the past with some different circumstances......... but this time, after the most investigations and legal challenges in history, thinks an absurd amount of unproven fraud took place.............just enough, in the 6 closest states so that their guy should have won but the fraud caused the other guy to win.

And then, believing that it was because of the fraud that those were close wins for Biden, as if the Biden people knew exactly how many votes to shift and would states would be the easiest to do it.  If that were the case, the fraud of such magnitude should have been easy to uncover.

Instead , we got fraudulent allegations, proven to be bogus. But that doesn't matter to people convinced the system is always rigged against Trump........even in a realm that  its almost impossible to rig it on the scale that it was supposed to happen this time.

Just enough fraud happened, in just the right states, so that it changed the overall results......

When challenged to show anything close to that amount of fraud, we hear "there really was fraud and they are covering it up, so how do we know for sure it wasn't that amount???"

We have proven that it couldn't possibly have been anyway close to even being in the vicinity of that amount over and over but that doesn't matter.

One side has decided, no matter what the objective, indisputable facts are, that widespread systemic fraud in just 6 states happened.

The other side, was convinced of the same thing 4 years ago.

The main item driving their opinions..................their person lost and that side was on a campaign to convince their people that they lost because of cheating.

When you are watching the objective realities from an objective, independent position with interpretations of everything being one sided and often to absurd extremes, using false narratives and made up information to battle the fake news from the other side, it makes it clear to me that each side is NEVER going to come together.

What factor or force could possibly become a powerful influence to bring us together? i

Biden being a nice guy and telling us he wants unity and this administration will be very honest and transparent, then not allowing reporters to observe what he's doing on the southern border and giving us bs about COVID and pushing extreme left agenda to raise taxes and obliterate energy and not doing news conferences that can question him............and telling us that he plans to run again in 2024, when he's struggling in 2021. 

No chance.......zero ....of deception bringing us together.

The groups it brings together, MSM and dems were already united.................against Trump. At least it does throttle down the hatred because there isn't somebody to be the target of massive hatred anymore.  

Plenty of individual Biden haters but not on at the extreme,  systemic, MSM sponsored  level anymore. 

When challenged to show anything close to that amount of fraud, we hear "there really was fraud and they are covering it up, so how do we know for sure it wasn't that amount???"

We have proven that it couldn't possibly have been anyway close to even being in the vicinity of that amount over and over but that doesn't matter.

Who has proven it couldn't possibly be that much?   I've seen nothing like that.

They are MUCH, MUCH more transparent.

No, they are not.  Yes,  they ran several audits of ballots to make sure the votes on the ballots matched the counts.  No,  they did not verify the ballots were valid and they have squashed any attempt at audits.

I do know the voter roles are hopelessly flawed,   and they are certainly flawed enough to account for a 12k variance in Ga.  I think we have a combination of government bureaucrats who are unwilling to fix it and some partisan groups who are more than willing to exploit it.   Stacy Abrams spear headed a large effort with lots of help. 

I will say again that I have no proof that the election was stolen in Ga or anywhere else. But it looks mighty suspicious.  Suspicious enough that the Ga Senate passed, and Ga Gov Kemp signed into law, sweeping reform that will prevent this in the future.

BTW,    this is the first election where I have questioned the results.  And no,  I discounted Trumps bogus claims early on.  I have a friend who is very active in Ga politics and kinda got sucked into all this.   The questions get no answers and only lead to more questions.

Finally, nothing will  change the last election.  It's done.  I'm glad enough people,  like my friend, raised enough concern that it can't happen in Ga going forward.   I hope the same is  true in other states. 

So this is the logic.

If an unknown person robs a bank, everybody that can’t conclusively  prove it wasn’t them could have done it......because other people think that they are bad people.....even without compelling REAL, not speculated evidence.

Speculating about election fraud that might have happened with no substantive proof is........doing the exact same thing.

The main proof is that trump insisted it happened 100+times and we all know the system is rigged against trump and we believe he is telling us the truth. Why else would he and his people say it hundreds of times?

The reason: if you repeat a lie often enough people accept it as the truth.

Your other proof is not proof unless you can prove it. Otherwise, it’s speculation using biased interpretation.

The position that all the proof is there but this is just a massive cover up.....when there were all sorts of investigations, and recounts and legal challenges flies in the face of the facts. 

Or that they just didn’t do the RIGHT investigation. We heard for 2 months that they had all this proof and the kraken was about to hit. ....

Day after day after day.

Again, this is brainwashing 101. Keep repeating a lie often enough and people believe it.

The lie is that Biden stole the election with nothing even close to being in the vicinity of proof that even a fraction of the votes needed to flip the election were stolen.

It’s actually quite amazing that othwise intelligent people can dig in to defend such a silly notion.

But such is life in 2021. Half of the people on the planet think the Weather and climate is killing our planet....while the planet greens up and begs for more beneficial CO2.

As I have said at least 3 times, I discounted Trump's bogus claims early on

I've also mentioed that several invalid ballots were identified,   available data shows lots of invalid registrations, and some forgeries were cleary identified.  Also, examples of people voting in 2 states.

So, the logic/analogy is more like we strongly suspect there has been a  bank robbery and we found individuals with bills that had serial numbers that were known to have been in the bank.

Anyway, as I said,  the election results will not change.   But we have tightened up identification/audit requirements for future elections.  And thats about the best we can do.  Pretty good in my book.  Hopefully, other states will follow suit. 

I agree that hopefully people will have increased confidence in future elections.

They will be super scrutinized for sure.