Thanks much Larry,

Just another manufactured reality that now defines our political arena. 

This is just taking the extreme belief  of the Biden steal by tens of millions of republicans and continuing to use and amplify it with wild speculation of something that could almost never happen in the real world.

Just like magnifying the one day riot in one building to be another 9-11 type event by one group, while the other group treats it like they were disoriented tourists taking selfies.

Here is the problem.

The response by each side is to try to exaggerate whatever their description or point.  or realm is to get more attention/weighting. Both sides try to "one up" the other by getting more and more extreme.

I've witnessed this for years with global warming.  The more the planet greens up and doesn't warm as fast as climate models, the more extreme the global warming, climate change, climate disruption, climate crisis, climate emergency has been described as. 

And the less time we have to act.

It's done purely as a marketing scheme and selling gimmick.

We get it all the time with commercials on television.

The advertisement greatly exaggerates what their product can do and will tell us that the next 100 people will get this price............but you have to call RIGHT NOW or they can only get this deal for the next 60 minutes. Then, they repeat the number 5 times in a row.

Then, we see the same ad the next day and next day and next day.

Politics and other realms operate using the same very effective selling strategies.

Cuddly looking Polar bears were used as the global warming mascots 15 years ago with Al Gores fake crisis movie that earned him an academy award(should have been for science fiction) and helped earn him the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007.......because they live in the Arctic and there was alot of ice melting up there.

Never mind that their numbers have increased 30% since 2005 and a hungry polar bear would not hesitate to eat you if he/she could and the problem in some places is that there are too many where humans live/are.(no, its not because the climate emergency is starving them and they have to search wider for food.)

This has been going on for over 3 decades with the manufactured climate emergency!

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/68881/#69862

Mike,

 You're welcome. Keep in mind that  Max Boot is not a lib/Dem. That's why I posted it.

Yes, I recognized it and it is significant and good to point out.

The republicans are getting extreme amongst themselves on this issue.

The REALLY extreme ones that are actually a serious threat as described by your article(but could never carry out such a thing in our country) and the ones that are trying to scare us even more about the extreme ones than we should be scared by them in this particular realm.

They are NOT going to be able to steal the election in 2024! This is silly.

But we should be scared by them in my opinion.

The  ones devoted to Trump-ism are EXTREME and no longer capable of telling what is authentic and what is fake...........in politics and even in science(which is because science today, is really politics)And they number the millions, possibly tens of millions that are moderately extreme with their views.

Out of those people, what if just .01% are very unstable and very dangerous?

Out of a pool of 10,000,000 people, .01%(1 out of 10,000) is..........1,000 people.

Thats alot of people capable of doing crazy things.

What if it was .1%  of that group,(1 out of 1,000)?

That would be 10,000 people capable of doing crazy things............terrorists that follow Trump religion that don't trust the government.

Yes, we have a serious problem on our hands Larry, I agree with you on this.

I guess the specific point to make  on the original article Larry is that the same rules, safe guards, machines and counting processes that prevented the Democrats/Biden from stealing the election will be in place in 2024.

If you believe that the republicans can use that same environment in 2024 to steal the election, than you can't also believe the rules in 2020 made it impossible for the democrats to do it. 

Does that make sense?

And of course, after 2016 we heard from millions of democratics that Trump stole the election, colluding with Russia to do it.

This "stealing the election" narrative is just turning into a way to vilify and or discredit your opponents.

There is ZERO evidence that there could have been anything close to the amount of fraud needed to steal any of the last 2 elections and do you know what?

The 2024 election will be absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to steal under any circumstances because everybody, on both sides is on such high alert to scrutinize every element of every contributing factor......that nobody will be able to get away with anything.

Like right  after 9-11-01, when everybody was afraid to fly. The fact was that is was the SAFEST time to fly in the history of flying. They scrutized everybody and their luggage........made them wait for hours to conduct intense searches.

Had armed federal agents on some flights.

Making terrorism on the airplanes almost impossible. 

Some thing coming up in the presidential election of 2024.

Thanks, Mike. Good points to consider.

But, fwiw, this article says that what Max Boot is worried about is a real threat to our democracy:

More Than 100 Scholars Issue Warning That American Democracy Is In Danger, Call For Federal Reforms (forbes.com)

"Referring to themselves as 'scholars of democracy,' the signatories include leading professors of political science, government, communications and history at many of the nation’s most prominent universities and colleges. As of mid-afternoon today, more than 100 individuals had signed onto the statement, but additional signatures were expected to be added."

For the best credibility, I'd want there to be a decent number of cons in this group. Note this from the article fwiw:

"Faculty signing the statement represented leading private and public colleges, including many from states that voted for Donald Trump in the 2020 election. Every Ivy League university was represented, as were such esteemed institutions as Stanford, Duke, Vanderbilt, Johns Hopkins and Notre Dame. But the sharpest attention will surely be drawn to those signatories employed at state universities in red states such as Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and West Virginia."

"the signatories include leading professors of political science, government, communications and history at many of the nation’s most prominent universities and colleges. As of mid-afternoon today, more than 100 individuals had signed onto the statement, but additional signatures were expected to be added."

You can bet that means almost all democrats:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/42610/#42612

Mike,

 You probably missed my edit in that post:

 "For the best credibility, I'd want there to be a decent number of cons in this group. Note this from the article fwiw:

'Faculty signing the statement represented leading private and public colleges, including many from states that voted for Donald Trump in the 2020 election. Every Ivy League university was represented, as were such esteemed institutions as Stanford, Duke, Vanderbilt, Johns Hopkins and Notre Dame. But the sharpest attention will surely be drawn to those signatories employed at state universities in red states such as Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and West Virginia.'

 I'm sure it is mostly Democrats, which will make it appear to be more partisan. But note what I bolded. Also, I happen to mostly agree with this threat and, therefore, with Democrats on this issue. Many Republicans/cons are now deep within crazy batshoot territory and believe the fake 2020 election steal. So, you're not going to get many GOPers to go along with this not because the idea of a threat is wrong but because these GOPers are way out of their minds.

I totally agree with all of that Larry except that they won't be able to steal the election in 2024 .

In fact, with 3 years to go and people already paranoid they might try to do that and get away with it, makes it that much more unlikely.

I totally believe they will try to do it but by what method can they possibly be effective/have any results?

Certainly nothing legal but what fraudulent method?

The thing is, because they are being like this and turning off many in their own party while the democrats unite, in the next presidential election, they could get slaughtered and even if they somehow managed some tricky, magical method to steal votes, the democrats will have such an insurmountable advantage/lead that even cheating wouldn't be able to overcome that.

Again, I agree that many of the Trump captured minds have totally  lost touch with reality and are getting fed propaganda by extreme right sites and have become a danger to society. 

It's not the nice, laws abiding passive ones that we should worry about that get on their computers and to receive their daily fix of manufactured realities with news they like to read.

 It's when you mix delusional with dangerous/extreme personalities that we know are out there.

I've gotten some good chuckles out of this thread,  but by far, my favorite...

"But the sharpest attention will surely be drawn to those signatories employed at state universities in red states such as Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and West Virginia."

Because as we all know,  the halls of academia are bastions of conservative thought and a well rounded group including all classes of political thought can be readily found...  Especially in red states.. 

Yes,  just to clarify,  this is extreme sarcasm  :-)   What very few conservatives exist in academia are very very quiet about their political beliefs.  To do other would be hazardous to their livelyhood.

Let's overlook the fact that we've been hearing for nearly a year that "election fraud is impossible, so don't even bother looking" and now we hear "Evil Pubs will steal the election in 2024"..  Even a conservative said so!!!

Tim makes the exact same points that I did and wins the award for critically thinking to bust yet another extreme manufactured/fake reality that somebody has created to scare people about other people they disagree with.

There are many other reasons to be concerned about those with minds captured by trump ....including wrecking their own party but stealing the 2024 election is not on that list.

How exactly might this be accomplished?

so to summarize this breaking news is just more audacity of the left. Simple smearing the right with what they have been up to all along......wow, so surprised WX

more and much worse audacity of the left. After the foia release of Fauci's e-mails he runs and does a giggly love fest "interview with Nicole Wallace. She actually giggles as she says, "Well you never said anything bad about Trump in you E-mail so you have certainly past the test"....Really? Nicole the journalist ought to know what Fauci di was far worse and more damaging to show his true character, When Trump expressed question about wuhon and the viruses Fauci knew but sit there and left Trump hanging and used for target practice by most all the commy msm's. This is what is important now and how the left is racing to cover its tracks yet again. Maybe wx can find some information on this. Does anyone else feel more and more used like the German Nazi's used and abused anyone in their wake?

mc,

 Fauci has nothing to do with the topic. There are three other threads dealing with Fauci, for goodness sake. Please keep Fauci out of here because it is cluttering up the thread.

"so to summarize this breaking news is just more audacity of the left. Simple smearing the right with what they have been up to all along."

mcfarm,

I see that you are using the modern age, new way of keeping political score.......by giving your political side a point when the opponent exaggerates something your side did/does wrong.......by creating a fake narrative/manufactured reality to vilify you while  totally ignoring when your side does the exact same thing.

While also totally ignoring the authentic realities of your sides very major/serious and legit problem that laid the ground work for the other side to try to maximize the damage to you in that realm. 

To be more specific.

This exaggerated/false narrative regarding an election steal to scare people over what the republicans might do in 2024 was born out of what the republicans actually did/how they reacted to the results of the 2020 election.

Totally refusing to accept the results of the most secure election in history...........even today. Making hundreds of false allegations that were all busted. Rioting at the Capitol building. Intensely disrupting our countries democratic process with lies and threats.....which continue unabated, 7 months after the election which Biden clearly won by all objective standards.

Since republicans REALLY ARE acting this way and scaring the crap out of objective, non Trump captured brains, it's providing the perfect background/environment for others to use/(exaggerate into wild speculative realms) with actions like the one taking place in this thread.

Also, agree with Larry on Fauci.

Your fixation with pilling up points against the opponent and not seeing the legit, massive points the other side is accumulating against your side in this very realm,  is resulting in a tunnel vision interpretation that only seeks out everything that you can find wrong with what the opponent does and stating it at every opportunity, while never looking in the mirror (objectively and truthfully) at your side.

Here were some wonderful threads about Fauci and the virus being covered up for you to make those posts at. 

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70380/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/69926/

I re read my posts. Do not see the right or conservatives mentioned. Get off you horse and answer a simple question. The audacity of the left and how they, the media, and academia all play ball. We sure do not need to aid them more by ignoring simple facts, not guess work, not supposition. The post were bout the audacity of the left and how they are no basically not held to any account. Right Dr Fauci?  prime example.

Ignore the entire points of the previous posts if you want mcfarm.

I think that its not intentional because the more extreme one's cognitive bias is, the less ability one has to see outside their world which is clearly defined in politics today with specific belief systems that are more like a religion..........based on faith, not facts. 

So my previous posts obviously completely missed the mark for you but they made all the relevant, ENTIRELY OBJECTIVE  points regarding this thread..........unless something new comes up. 

As far as getting off my horse..........here's some people getting off their horse's....the hard way (-:

Funny Horse Fails Compilation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqfwZi1E6P8

mcfarm,

Did you retire from farming?

Usually at this time of year we've seen numerous posts about that topic..........your expertise. 

I would be thrilled if you shared that with us on the trading forum if you have the time.

With prices in the stratosphere right now, all producers must be elated with their  profit potential for this years crop.

I'll start a new thread at the trading forum just for you and the other producers.

Of course you're very welcome to post here too.

                Producers/crop 6-3-21            

                            0 responses |        

                Started by metmike - June 3, 2021, 2:41 p.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70437/

hardly retired, farming more acres this year than ever and its been a tester.  After planting early corn cold and wet set in, never a good thing for emergence. Then planting was scattered for 30 days with weather delays but things were looking pretty good until this morning when we did not need another rain. Had a bit of water standing and about 10am out of no where a rain popped up and set here for about 40 minutes and put down one of the hardest rains I have seen ....we now have lots of water standing and no where to go with it. Which is really odd this year with the severe drought all across the northern plains....so dry up there the spring wheat is threatened and corn and bean have no moisture to germinate in places. Stranger yet, usually bone dry Kansas has had record rain fall in May. I would say a lot of the main corn belt needs sun and heat at this point, I have not been anywhere, its just the feeling I get when reading producers. Not much color to the corn yet.

wxfollower,

you don't have to worry about the election being stolen in 2024.

In 2020, Biden had 6 mill more votes than Trump.

There are some 11 million illegal aliens in the US. They will be given citizenship, and they will all vote for Biden.

Taking a look at the Southern Border, which is in total collapse, I would guess that at least another 8-12 million illegal aliens and asylum seekers will have entered the US by 2024 (and these numbers may be too low). 

Many of the migrants approaching the border are already wearing Joe-Biden T-shirts, and they are not even in the US yet!

If they can quickly give these newcomers their citizenship before 2024, you will have a tsunami of Biden voters.

Even if the republicans would make an attempt to "steal" the vote, they wouldn't be able to overcome this numerical disadvantage.

Oh, I forgot.... the voting system is already the most secure in history. Relax!

Thanks mcfarm,

I was actually hoping that you would post that in the thread that was created and linked to .....just for you in the trading forum and meant that you are welcome to keep posting ntr stuff down here.

I'll copy your post for that link above.

Gunter,

 Your post has lots of hyperbole. You're exaggerating. It isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Yest, 2021 has, indeed, seen a big increase but it is largely due to the two major hurricanes that hit Central America in Nov. There is a true humanitarian crisis down in Honduras. Guatemala, and vicinity. But as active it is at the MX/Us border, it is not aiming to be the worst as 1986, 1996, and 1998-2000 are still looking to be worse than 2021. The way you talk, it is the worst by far ever. It isn't. Yes, it looks to be the worst going back to 2001. But there were worse just before, which was largely due to Hurricane Mitch. The worst year was actually when Reagan was POTUS.

Right Gunter, it only is perfect logic that whenever bad weather hits that we suddenly are to overlook criminal entry into this country and after they break our laws to enter they then break our most sacred law of voting illegally

thanks, wxfollower, for pointing out the stats about immigration.

However, right now, the border patrol arrests about 170,000 per month. And they estimate that at least 1/3 more get through without being caught. That calculates to about 2.7 million /year., with 3 1/2 more years to go.

And those are the illegals. In addition to them are those who apply for asylum. I don't believe, my numbers are far off.

You may be correct, the weather problems in Central America may have to do with it. At least, that's what the administration is trying to tell us..

 However, to me it looked like the change in administration was the biggest motivating factor. The big rush started as soon as Biden moved into the WH.. He immediately terminated Trump's "stay in Mexico" policy, which was a deterrent.

Anybody listening to Biden, knew immediately that there would be a rush to the border, and the BP would be unable to stop them.

If you believe that the current 2.7 mill/year will be a bit less during the next few years, go ahead and pick a number.

Either way, you have to add this number to the 11 mill who are already here, and you will still see a land-slide victory for Biden 

Re: McFarm introducing Fauci into a discussion about GOP Stealing elections...

Not too long ago,  I started a thread about how things are not looking good with Biden as president. WX responded with the idea that Trump was much worse, particularly on Jan 6th.  MM Jumped right in and we never heard about Biden again in the thread.    As a matter of fact,  I can think of several instances where WX has chimed in with "Trump whataboutisms" in discussions having nothing to do with Trump.

So,  based on this thread,   the rules are quite subjective.

What you said is true Tim.

Of everybody here, I will sometimes expand on a thread topic and apply it  into all sorts of realms but at least try to have it related.

Tim said:

"Re: McFarm introducing Fauci into a discussion about GOP Stealing elections...

Not too long ago,  I started a thread about how things are not looking good with Biden as president. WX responded with the idea that Trump was much worse, particularly on Jan 6th.  MM Jumped right in and we never heard about Biden again in the thread.    As a matter of fact,  I can think of several instances where WX has chimed in with 'Trump whataboutisms' in discussions having nothing to do with Trump."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim,

 Yes, indeed, I often bring up Trump when the topic is negatively about Biden as I show that Biden is easily the lesser of two evils. Trump and Biden were direct competitors. Biden was the alternative to Trump. 

 But OTOH, Fauci, who isn't even a politician (he's a scientist/not running for office), is being brought into a thread about the potential for the GOP to try to steal the 2024 election. Fauci (whatever one may think of him) isn't the alternative to the GOP possibly stealing the 2024 election. You don't see the difference? Trump and Biden: apples vs apples. Fauci and potential GOP 2024 election steal? apples vs kumquats. <G>

=

=

You can justify/rationalize it anyway you like.  The specific topic was Bidens poor job performance.  

To stay on topic,  you would have countered with why you feel that Biden is doing a spectacular job, which,  unless you feel a "lack of mean tweets" accomplishes that,  would be a very difficult job, IMO.

Instead,  you countered with a Trump "What aboutism"( Who is no longer president BTW) , which you have done on several threads whether they involve Biden or not..   i've pointed this out several times, once saying "When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

Now,  in all my years on the Forum,  I've seen that sometimes, threads evolve, mutate, what have you, to a point where the last post has absolutely nothing to do with the first. (Current thread as an example).  I don't have a huge problem with that.   If you do,  fine.  Stick to the topic in a thread.   But if you don't conform to that standard,  you can't honestly call someone else out on it based on some undefined and subjective standard of "Thread Integrity".

Post edit:  To be fair,  I thought I'd inclide the specific example.     You're welcome

Border Zsar Harris finally addresses the border problem - MarketForum

Tim,

 In that thread, I posted about Trump not giving a shoot about the Constitution when he asked Pence to literally violate it on 1/6/21 because you had been saying that the Dems didn’t care about the Constitution since it went against some of the things they wanted. It was a relevant retort because of that. That’s not anywhere near the same as bringing up Fauci in this thread. So, comparing me bringing up Trump in that thread with Fauci being brought up in this thread is like comparing apples to pomegranates. <G>. 

Edit: Here’s a copy of my reply to Tim in that thread:

“Tim said:

‘Oddly, these are the same folks who generally view the constitution as an antiquated relic, but that's mainly because the constitution terribly constricts their intended agenda.’

——————————

Tim,

  Ironically enough, you can put Trump in this group as he insisted Pence violate the Constitution on 1/6/21 since Pence properly following that document on that day terribly constricted the ability of Trump to stay in power.”

I thought the topic dwelling on this particular item would have vanished days ago. 

However, since it hasn't, let's try to make it vanish now with an elaboration of what the MarketForum rules related to this are.

1. There are no rules about this............and never will be. 

2. Some people will go off topic more than others in a particular thread. Some will go extremely way off topic, when their point would best be made by starting a brand new thread dedicated to that new topic. 

For people that find this discombobulating, please try to just ignore it because the way that each of our brains work is much different.

I tried to get mcfarm to make a post about his farming earlier in this thread to be made in a thread that I actually created with him in mind here,  to entice him(and others) to post on his expertise in the trading section.

Instead, he decided to continue to use this thread.

So what happened?

It ended up being the source of a great new idea that got comments from half a dozen producers in the trading section.............thanks mcfarm, for posting way off topic here (-:

                Producers/crop 6-3-21            

                            9 responses |     

                Started by metmike - June 3, 2021, 2:41 p.m.     

       https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70437/

It usually doesn't work out that way but we are never going to change people when it comes to most behavior. All we can do is express our own opinions using facts to support them, then when the conversation stalls out, move on to something more productive.

I'm officially  taking responsibility for addressing/managing all off topic posts(ers) so that others can move on..........starting right now please. If you are unhappy with somebody doing this, please bring it up again but I can guaruntee you that the person objecting, will not have objected to it if they off topic post lines up with their personal ideology/belief system.

So do you get it?

Our personal sensitivity to infractions by others is directly connected to whether the infraction  violated our personal belief system. Nobody got upset when mcfarm made a post here about his crop did they?

Please don't try to give me a reason for why that wasn't the case this time and the discussion on this was not related to that. 

Actually, that is perfectly understandable(to let points you disagree with rub you the wrong way vs those that you agree with) and I accept that but metmike, who tries to be objective and open minded........... will be the arbiter and is saying to please drop it.

Also, compared to a couple of other forums that I have visited(I really like WUWT) people here are extremely well behaved. 

The main reason is that we booted several people for relentless personal attacking, displaying hatred and viciousness and trying to turn MarketForum into their opportunity to target people they disagree with using anti social skills to pick fights  and you are what's left.  People that respect other people. Good for you!