We can often count on zerohedge to spin and create impressions to take something good and make it bad.

My impression was:

1. She clearly was telling the people in this Central American country to NOT come to the US...........doing it in person. I thought that's the message that you wanted them to get? It came right from the horses mouth. Or do you think that when the camera's were turned off, she said "not really!  everybody come to the US and you don't have to work. We will give you everything for free and you can live off of our government and our American taxpayers"...............NOT.

2. Though we can't be sure that much of the money that we are giving to Guatemala to help them will not be squandered or be used as graft by corrupt politicians, we all have to agree that country is REALLY messed up. This is why so many people are willing to risk their lives to get out of there and come here. Helping to make things better for people in Central American WILL with 100% certainty cause less people to want to fleee the country for greener pastures(or any pastures).  I think this is a win-win strategy. It helps those people. Helps to motivate them to stay home and best of all for people in  the US, it helps manage the invasion at the border. 

I have agreed with you on this administration not managing  the southern border crisis well and being the opposite of transparent about it and Harris intentionally NOT going down there because then, she would be held more accountable for something she saw with her own eyes.

However, I will probably have a heart attack if you post one of your extreme right sources ever acknowledging anything good that this administration did/does.

They do exactly...............100% exactly what everybody on the right squawked about with the MSM's coverage of Trump. It was something like 95% negative.

But that's how it is in the world today. We have 2 sides that spend much more time attacking and vilifying each other than they spend.........realizing that  there is a ton of  common ground and at times like this one............actually seeing it without letting their cognitive bias block their objectivity.

I regret not saying in my original post that I thought that telling the people of Guatemala not to come, was a proper comment for her to make. As you said, coming from the “horse’s mouth”, might even deter a few would-be travelers from going on the trip (not many, IMHO).

On the other hand, at the same time, I believe the Guatemalans were all chuckling when she spoke of the US enforcing its border laws. Everybody in Central America knows how easy it is to enter the US illegally.  Not just in Central America… in everyplace in the world where people have internet.

As far as I know, making this trip is her first act as the Border Zsar (other than talking to the president of Mexico and recommending for the US to pay migrants to plant trees in Mexico, as a solution to the border crisis)

Quite frankly, if a person has been honored to be the VP of the USA, and the boss orders that person to take care of the border issue, it seems to me, that person should drop everything she was doing, and do what the President told her to do. Her ignoring the President’s order for all these weeks, does not speak for her very well.

Especially at a time, when the BP has been pleading for help, and multiple counties in Texas have declared a State of Emergency, being overrun by illegal immigrants.

Furthermore, IMHO, sending lots of money to Guatemala is a nice gesture… but that’s all it is.  How about Honduras, El Salvator, Haiti?. And just recently, 10,000s are also coming from Venezuela. How about the migrants coming from the M.E., from Africa?

Will the aid package to Guatemala stop any of this?

And will this aid to Guatemala actually help the people, or will it enrich the pockets of their politicians? Will it stop the crime they are all complaining about?

The way some of these countries are described, they are places that are totally controlled by drug lords and street gangs. Does anybody really think that sending some money down there will suddenly turn the drug cartels into law-abiding citizens, working at McDonalds?

To bring change into those countries, not only requires money, it also requires a cultural change, a change of beliefs and customs. Such a change takes generations.

Right now there is an invasion going on. Right now the border situation is totally out of control.

And, we have a homeless situation in the US that is escalating.

It seems to me, the first step to fight the border crisis would be to first strengthen our borders and stop illegal immigration.. After that, we can figure out which country needs some financial help.

These are my humble opinions, and they have absolutely nothing to do with any source that provided the link to the above story.

Thanks for those humble opinions Gunter.

I am in agreement with them..........especially the enforcement at the border.

Realistically, the US isn't going to be able to do much to solve the crisis in these countries.

If we could, wouldn't that be great magic. Then, all these countries  would need is a bunch of US money. 

But in the real world, there will always be unsolvable problems(with regards to the US being the solution) .

However, we are a very rich country with some really smart people that have tremendous ideas and resources.

We owe it to humanity to share those gifts with poor countries because of the widespread suffering it's causing to well over a billion people on this planet because of no fault of their own.

They were born into poverty, and with no jobs or opportunities to better themselves........let alone the cognitive understanding/intelligence to know how to do it.

There are 1 billion people on the planet that don't even have enough fresh water every day.

So despite the crisis at the southern border this year, I think that the VP should be commended for this trip because it shows compassion/caring.

Is it for political show or damage control or  to accomplish an underlying agenda that we are not being told about?

Could be but if part of that entails helping poor people in a poor country, then we should recognize that part of it and celebrate the potential for the positives.

I know, your comments about helping others in need, make my comments look somewhat selfish.

Especially, since I grew up in Germany. After WW2, the great cities of Germany were all in ruins… nothing but rubble.

Germany rebuilt itself, but they didn’t do it without help. Through the so-called Marshal Plan, the USA gave a helping hand. Considering that the 2 countries were enemies during the war, this gracious attitude of the USA was extraordinary. The older generation in Germany has not forgotten.

However, at this point in time, the USA is not the rich country it once was. The pandemic caused a lot of destruction. And money is being printed out of thin air, as if there was no tomorrow. There is no doubt in my mind, we will be faced with a runaway inflation, which will hurt all of us.

As is the rule in aviation, when there is a loss of air pressure, and the oxygen masks come down, mothers should take the oxygen mask first, before giving it to their baby…. otherwise both will die

Want to help the hungry and poor in these countries?    Sending money just enriches their politicians and ours.  A few scraps may make ot to those in true needs,  but that's it.

Nope, fnancial aid is what it is and always has been.  A scam.

The start of the solution?   Have Nike, or someone, build a factory down there and "exploit" the people, who will now be making more in a day than they used to have in a month.   Over the years. other companies will show up and in 10-20 years. the poor will be so "exploited", they'll be living in apartments and houses and driving cars and buying computers and cel phones.

Rite On Tim

Wonderful idea!

I thought we were trying to do the exact opposite of that Tim?

Aren't we trying to keep those big companies from leaving the US to get cheaper labor in places like Mexico and China?

Wouldn't this cause lost jobs to Americans?

Well, I guess with Biden increasing the corporate tax rate by a large amount and minimum wages going up, this is likely to happen, big companies will find that the cost of production will be MUCH lower outside of the US(in an undeveloped country) so your solution becomes much more viable and appealing to big companies. 

Your solution also fits nicely into the United Nations plan to redistribute global wealth, including developing more businesses in poor countries and moving it out of the rich countries, like the US. 

I do like your idea a great deal though and it would  absolutely work but am just presenting the other side, that I thought represented your side. 

No.  We're not trying to keep companies here,  we're trying to stop giving them so many reasons to leave.     That international aggreement on corprate tax will certainly help.  <G>

And I am certainly not talking a redistribution of wealth, which, as I understand it, is the UN goal.

I'm talking about investors putting their money where it will do the most good.  This creates whole new markets of consumers and is the best path long term.      

Let each location/country do what it's best at doing.    We'll never beat cheap labor for low cost goods.  Where the US will succeed is in production of high cost items that are expensive to transport.   

I am trying to use some common sense on this issue.

The reason for Kamala Harris to travel to Guatemala was to “find the root cause’ of the migration issue, so we were told.

Now that makes sense!!!We must first find the cause of a problem, before we come up with solutions.

So she travels to Guatemala to find out what causes all this migration, and she already brings a check for $860 mill, before she had a chance to find what the “root cause” is?

Furthermore, it is well known that the governments In these countries are very corrupt.   And you wave a bundle of dollars in the faces of the corrupt officials? What do you think will happen to that money?

However, the “root cause” is well known. During the last few years, our beloved MSM has interviewed caravan members multiple times. There are 2 reasons: a) violent crime, b) no work.

Reason a)

I remember hearing mothers worrying about their young boys. They either had to join one of the violent street gangs or be killed. I can understand how this would motivate whole families to escape.

A quick “fact check”…

Murders per 100k population:

Guatemala 22, USA 49, Baltimore 58, St Louis 64

Forget that one!

Reason b)

Work. Sure, if you don’t have a job, you starve.

However, when Trump had an arrangement with Mexico, to keep the caravans out of the US, the government of Mexico offered the migrants asylum PLUS jobs. They refused.

So what is the real reason then? I can only guess… the real reason why they want to go to the US as "refugees" is the free welfare, the subsidized housing, the food stamps, the free everything.

Furthermore, I read that in those countries, certain entities (entities not friendly to the US) ran advertisements that encouraged the locals to migrate to the US, to receive all those benefits.

Well, that was during the Trump years. Now, since Biden is in charge, there is no more need for anyone to advertise in Central America.

Even the president of Guatemala blamed Biden for the increased migration, while in conference with Harris.

I wonder what people there now think, since the VP has told them not to come. Are they taking her seriously, or do they still believe Uncle Joe wants them to come?

While in Guatemala, VP Harris announced that she (or did she mean “the US”) will fight corruption. This probably made her some enemies at high levels in those countries, but may make her dear to the people there.

Gunter the internet works most everywhere now and more likely the people of central America know exactly what we know about Kammla....she is as corrupt as their leaders and will say any damn thing to further her own personal success.

Congrats!

We are all familiar with TDS(Trump derangement syndrome) but we are now seeing the disease having spread to many tunnel visioned republicans who take every news item related to Fauci, Biden and Harris and spin it into them being completely diabolital people intent on doing their best to hurt people.......even when they do good things.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70633/#70634

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70633/#70642

It's actually not surprising because I have been watching FOX news since they started broadcasting, more so in the last few years when being moderator here compelled me to follow politics and try to comment on authenticity and to sample as many sources as possible to understand allow viewpoints.

FOX has become radicalized unfortunately since the loss of the presidential election last year. Their viewers that greatly trust them are falling in line. Sadly, there are many much more extreme sources of far right material that depicts this administration and Dr. Fauci as evil as the MSM depicted Donald Trump.

I don't belong to either party but will always tell the objective truths based on the realities here. 

I defended President Trump when he was unfairly and relentlessly attacked using corrupt/dishonest tactics too........as you might remember.

And I am not discouraging you from posting how you really feel.............especially...ESPECIALLY  if it disagrees with me.

Let's get it out there so we can discuss it and give me a chance to comment.......NOT censor it  or censor anything.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70511/

I am your friend. Really, I am your sincere friend trying to state things to benefit you.....not your enemy when I make posts like this. I don't care about who is right or wrong.............only the objective truths and authentic science matter to me. 

The more I think about this issue, the more absurd it gets.

We have an invasion of illegal aliens going on. There is a state of emergency in Texas. There also is a huge humanitarian crisis... thousands of kids are being trafficked. …. and what is being done about it?

Since the focus of this thread is on Harris….

A few weeks ago, the VP was ready to board an airplane, when a reporter asked her when she was going to the border, She broke out in a strange laugh.

This weekend, Lester Holt asked her when she was going to the border. She said “at one point we will go to the border”. Then she stopped herself and said “we have been to the border. We have been to the border”.

Holt then replied “you have not been to the border”. 

She then said “I have not been to Europe..” (I couldn’t make out what else she said), followed again by a strange laugh.

I don’t quite understand how her mind works.

There is nothing funny about the crisis at our border.

No, I don’t believe I am suffering from Harris Derangement Syndrome. I also recognize the nice things about her.

She always dresses professionally

She doesn’t use Twitter much.

She is helping looters go get quick bail money.

She visited a Boys Scouts Club

She has a nice family.

I will think of some more soon…

**************

One more comment about the trip…

Now I am reading that $4 bill dollars are intended to be offered.I assume this is for all 3 of these countries (Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador).

Those 3 countries have a population of approx.. 40 million people. This calculates to be about $100 /person, and this will stop the migration????

This is grotesque.

How much would Trump’s wall have cost?

"Holt then replied “you have not been to the border”. 

She then said “I have not been to Europe..” (I couldn’t make out what else she said), followed again by a strange laugh."

I agree, that this was a pathetic response.

Also that they have doing a very poor job managing the current southern border crisis.

As I've been saying, she has been avoiding a visit down there because it would open up many questions to her and also she couldn't pretend its not a crisis anymore.

The MSM should be doing a much better job of holding this administration accountable for the handling of the RIGHT NOW border crisis.

Managing a problem in Central America that should pay dividends down the road is a good thing but it ignores the crisis in 2021.

We're told that its much more important to focus on a computer generated simulation of a theoretical climate using subjectively chosen math equations(that have all been too warm for over 3 decades) and extreme very unlikely outcomes.

The reason is that the plan is for global socialism and US socialism. I wish they would just come out and tell the dang truth about it instead of manufacturing fake realities and a fake climate crisis to save the greening up planet from the best weather and climate in the last 1,000 years because its a climate optimum.

I can actually understand what they want to accomplish with spreading the wealth and helping the poor countries. It's the lying which ticks me off.............and the hijacking of my profession............atmospheric science/weather/climate to do it.

This is what's really behind most of this stuff, entirely behind the fake climate crisis and but also relates to the immigration issue and also very much being accomplished in tandem with the cultural revolution:

 https://www.pseau.org/en/agenda-2030

When reading that, you would have to agree that most of those goals sound wonderful. However, the way that they are going about it, because the rich countries won't be so on board is to trick some people.

It's explained more here:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70540/#70661

Gunter said:

"During the last few years, our beloved MSM has interviewed caravan members multiple times. There are 2 reasons: a) violent crime, b) no work."

------------------------------------

Gunter,

 You need to add "Intense hurricanes just 2 weeks apart last November" to the main reasons for a large increase in 2021. Mike and I were following these closely in the Coffee thread. The flooding from very heavy rains was absolutely heartbreaking. I really do feel sorry for those folks who lost so much, including their homes. This was historic flooding that happened twice in two weeks!! There is true misery and they are desperate for help.

 Edit: It wouldn't surprise me if having devastating flooding from back to back hurricanes in nearly the same spots was a one in several hundred year event! Folks, let that sink in. What if it were your family having gotten hit like that, especially with young kids? Wouldn't you want a lot of help?

What Larry said is true!

Here's some discussions that we had about Eta and Iota and the affects on Central America..........also Mitch, which did the same thing 2 decades ago.

                Biden has done poorly at border but Eta and Iota did devastate C America in Nov            

        Started by WxFollower - May 30, 2021, 4:34 p.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70239/

And yet, these poor poeple, devastated by hurricanes, were not interested in opportunities in Mexico.   Nope.  They needed to go a few more thousand miles of rough terraine to make it to the US. 

     Labor Stats: compare key data on            Mexico        &            United States   

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Mexico/United-States/Labor

                                                                  MEXICO                                                  UNITED STATES

What's the cost of living in Mexico?  I hear you can live like a king down there on the typical basic US social security. 

There's no good argument that the only acceptable destination, assuming they were fleeing hurricanes, was the US.

Tim said: "There's no good argument that the only acceptable destination, assuming they were fleeing hurricanes, was the US."

-----------------------------------

 I think Tim has a good point here that is at least worthy of discussion. Why can't at least a sizable number have a destination in MX? Or maybe they do? Anyone know? One would think MX would be a vast improvement over their storm ravaged areas to the south. Is it because MX won't allow them to stay?

Updated May 28, 2021

Mexico’s Immigration Control Efforts

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10215.pdf

Trump made a huge deal 2 years ago with Mexico to manage this

Here is how one of many sources, instead of recognizing that it was working, twisted it so that it was spun into "Trump..........actually didn't do something good for the US, let us tell you how it was really bad".

6 Points About the U.S.-Mexico Migration Agreement and the Latest Border Apprehension Numbers

https://reliefweb.int/report/united-states-america/6-points-about-us-mexico-migration-agreement-and-latest-border

Wxfollower,

The weather issue is a recent issue, and quite possibly, as you pointed out, a reason for many to leave their home country.

The “caravans’ I mentioned above, took place before the hurricanes, and before Covid. Their main arguments for seeking asylum were crime, poverty, and lack of work.

There are basically 3 types of “immigrants”.

a) Legal Immigrants: they are vetted and have to either have a “sponsor” in the US, or proof of an employment offer, to receive a “Green Card” (that's how it was when I came to the US.. don't know about today)

b) Illegal Aliens: they are basically law-breaking intruders. They are on their own, once in the US

c) Asylum seekers (the Caravans):“…Asylees are entitled to certain public benefits. For the first seven years after being granted asylum,  asylees are eligible for Social Security Income, Medicaid, and Food Stamps, and a variety of other benefits and services. Eligibility for many of these programs may extend past the first seven years….”

This, and metmike’s comparisons of wages in Mexico with wages in the US, would explain why these caravan people did not want to accept asylum and jobs in Mexico.