Berenson if you did not know has been one of lone honest nonpoitical voices thru this entire mess
So what’s the point ?
Hi mcfarm,
That’s that new Delta Variant. Dr Fauci warned us about this one… it clearly spreads more quickly than the older Covid. It is more contagious. He urged all the unvaccinated people to quickly get vaccinated to stop the spread, and quoted again the 90% efficacy of the “vaccine”
However, he seemed to have been wrong. The vaccines don’t work that well on the Delta.
Rather than listening to him, I focused on news from Israel, because they have been hit hard by the Delta and know more about it than Dr Fauci.
A few days ago, I posted that Israel claimed a 64% efficacy (using the Pfizer). As I did some more research, I realized that 64% is not even close. Israel (at that time) was 57% vaccinated, yet their new cases were equally split among vaccinated and unvaccinated people. If this is true, than you can calculate a “break-through” rate of 75%... meaning, the vax has an efficacy of only 25% against the Delta.
(if one wants to get into more detail, one can include the ratio of Delta vs regular Covid cases in Israel. 90% of their new cases are Delta…. (which would lower the efficacy even more)
On the good side, they seem to feel that the Delta has less severe symptoms and is less deadly than the regular Covid.
(Disclosure… I am not a virologist… I only did the obvious math)
In the meantime, Israel is now worried about a new strain, called the Delta Plus. However, their preliminary assessment is that this one is less severe, and they decided not to put any new restrictions in place.
It seems quite obvious that there is a problem with the vaxx, when the Delta is involved. There is no such thing as a 90% protection against the Delta, as Dr Fauci has claimed.
I have also have been reading some info coming from the UK… about many vaccinated people catching the Delta. I have to do some more research on this issue.
Funny, on DailyMail they had a woman who called the Delta the “pandemic of the unvaccinated”. According to all the data and comments above, this it total cr*p
Again, I am not a virologist. I am only trying to learn as much as I can about it, and use common sense.
https://nypost.com/2021/06/27/delta-variant-outbreak-in-israel-infecting-vaccinated-adults/
Again, we have no idea of the number of vaccinated folks who were exposed to the virus and weren’t hospitalized, or even knew they were exposed.
Saying the split of hospitalized folks is even between the two means nothing without knowing the number exposed.
Half truths can be as deceptive as whole lies.
mcfarmer, the number provided by health agencies come from people who have sought medical help. in other words, they were infected.
It's simple statistics. If the vaccs were working (like Fauci said) there would have been very few vaccinated people showing up... and this was obviously not the case.
Of course, you can theorize that most of the unvaccinated people managed to stay away from the nasty viruses, and the vaccinated people all exposed themselves, by mingling with large groups of laughing and spitting infected people, ....yes, that would be an explanation why so many vaccinated people are getting infected
But that's not realistic.
Besides.... if you don't like my calculation, at least accept the 64% number provided by the Health Agencies of Israel... unless you believe our "Mr. Science" more.
Fauci wrong? Gunter are you sure about that? Just yesterday he was waxing about 3 years old needing to wear masks and the possibility of 6 months old getting the vac. And we have yet to get to the bottom of his involvement with the aids epidemic or Wuhon.
Gunter, All I am saying is that a person can not make over arching statements based on largely anecdotal evidence.
You have obviously researched this more than I, I am willing to trust those put in charge and have better things to do.
Reliable statistics take a huge amount of time to compile, these examples of one hospital or one region for a short period of time are not enough to arrive at definitive results.
You may well be proven correct, I have an open mind and all good scientists welcome being proven wrong, that’s how science makes progress.
Condemning one person on anecdotal evidence isn’t fair. What alternative do you propose ?
Hi mcfarmer, thank you for your reply. I appreciate it!
I am not a virologist. I am by education an engineer. All my life I have trusted our medical institutions, when it came to medical issues… just as you just pointed out about yourself. Of course we trust them. They know more than we do. They are here to help us and protect us.
However, all this changed when Covid arrived. Right from the beginning, dishonesty became obvious and prevalent.
Doctors were ordered to inflate Covid stats, and medications that could have saved 1000s of lives, were intentionally kept from us.
Somebody in charge was obviously not bound by the Hippocratic Oath. Somebody was trying to control the masses for their own agenda.
No need to go into the who and why…the main point is, it became clear that we had to watch out for our own selves.
And then we entered the era of the “vaccines”, and now there is even more need to be suspicious (again, without going into the who and why).
I am not a virologist, and I don’t want to become one… however, I do not want to be brainwashed by the daily propaganda coming from the “establishment”… and that’s why I quoted info coming from the health agencies of Israel.
Obviously, this data was not complete, detailed and thorough, but it does present a different story than the one given to us here, in the US. I trust it enough to override what Dr Fauci is telling us.
“Doctors were ordered to inflate Covid stats, and medications that could have saved 1000s of lives, were intentionally kept from us.”
And why exactly was that ? What to be gained ?
do you have the slightest memory of all the scare tactics that have used the last 2 years or the fact that the play for libs for years has been "never let a disaster go to waste"..... not that they would ever politicize a disaster.
"Do you ever want to see grandma or grandpa again"....ever? That started early and recently it has been "DeSantos responsible for millions of deaths in Florida"
mcfarmer, I hate to answer your question, because this would get me into an area called “conspiracy theories”
Although, the 2 items mentioned actually did happen… so it cannot be called a “theory”.
And a number of entities did work together to make all this happen… which could certainly be called a “conspiracy”
Somebody obviously said “ d*mn the People… let them die…this is our great opportunity”
I am sure, politically you can think of groups of people who benefited from making millions unemployed and having businesses locked up
And I am sure you can think of ideologies that would benefit from keeping the masses in fear, keeping them locked up and tightly controlled, getting them used to a totalitarian state (called the “new normal”)
And vaccines that are administered to every human being on this planet…. OMG.. think of the possibilities (besides $$$$$).
So basically you got nothing.
do I have to spell it out for you, in more detail?
"Reliable statistics take a huge amount of time to compile, these examples of one hospital or one region for a short period of time are not enough to arrive at definitive results.
You may well be proven correct, I have an open mind and all good scientists welcome being proven wrong, that’s how science makes progress"
mcfarmer is exactly right on this.
However, some people are constantly looking for anti vax, anti government COVID information, (some rooted in unsupportable anomalies/some just plain bunk and some legit) while finding it challenging to appreciate irrefutable scientific principles while
To help do that, I've provided numerous opportunities for learning that seem to get conveniently forgotten but am always happy to repeat to help my friends to learn science.
I've actually spent more time here on the big election lie and all the COVID related disinformation than anything else in 2021 but fortunately, I don't have to start all over each time..........thanks to relevant threads that are saved.
Re: Re: The Great Covid19 Deception
By metmike - May 28, 2021, 12:16 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70091/#70097
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Covid vaccines and pregnant women....tip: Don't
18 responses |
Started by GunterK - July 2, 2021, 12:18 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/71895/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here is another group of threads that go back a year ago that you can choose to RE-learn a few things based on the titles:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70091/#70160
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And another group of threads, with titles indicating what they are about:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70091/#70161
Here is a new batch of links to information about the Delta mutation/variant.
Will Your Vaccine Work Against Delta?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-07-04/will-your-vaccine-work-against-delta
Vaccines are still beating the variants, but the unvaccinated world is being pummeled.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/3-principles-now-define-pandemic/619336/
metmike: By a wide margin, the biggest threat we now face from COVID is coming from the anti vax crowd that continues to use anti science fear mongering to perpetrate myths and conspiracy theories about the vaccinated process that has indisputably been proven effective and with billions of people now having been vaccinated, irrefutably safe by all objective standards.
The more people we get vaccinated, the less chance COVID has to spread and mutate and the more protected those individuals will be.
You are 10,000 times more likely to die from COVID than from the vaccine. Some vaccinated people will still get COVID, this is totally expected...........a very small amount will die........this is totally expected but everyone will get at least some protection and the vast majority will never get COVID. If you don't get inoculated you have ZERO protection unless you already had COVID.
If you are reading this and have not been vaccinated...........PLEASE get vaccinated ASAP!!!
Vaccinated people getting COVID
Started by metmike - April 7, 2021, 3:07 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/67591/
Long term side effects are extremely unlikely with the vaccine.........GETTING COVID is what causes long term side affects:
Immunologist warns Covid19 vaccine could cause long-term neurological disorders
15 responses |
Started by GunterK - Feb. 23, 2021, 8:50 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/65942/#65958
"Science" in our Covid era
4 responses |
Started by GunterK - Feb. 24, 2021, 10:20 a.m.