Gunter,

Very impressive cut and pasting but not one of those shows what I've been asking for and it proves the cherry picking of anomalies that you use to saturate your mind with so you don't let the science sink in.

Of course there are people that were vaccinated that died or people that refused to get vaccinated........or course there were.  I showed you tons of studies that showed this and the MUCH LOWER rate at which serious illness and death is occurring in vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated people and the minuscule rate of serious, short term side affects from the vaccine.

I will ask you for the umpteenth time but clearly, if you had what I was asking for...........we would have seen it a long time ago........so obviously you don't:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/73179/#73294

Since you clearly don't have it, I will ask you nicely to please stop making false claims over and over.

"And mentioning that top scientists in virology and mRNA technology have given their views, opinions and warnings on those despised websites (as I have done right now), is a simple fact that can never be disputed."

"In your last post, you compare me to a person who is making money off his anti-Covidvaxx commentaries Apparently you believe, I make money from all these debates!!! I don’t know where you got this idea."

No I did not Gunter.  You know I never stated that.....errr, I'm not sure anymore what you are capable of when it comes to this topic.   The article that was provided shows how people like you are being conned by anti-COVID vax commentaries and sources THEY ARE THE ONES MAKING MONEY.....you are just passing the con on and trying to convince others of really dangerous stuff. 

All your links, totally, 100% confirmed that. Thank you for providing us the sources that are doing the con job on you!

Here is the article again for others to see the indisputable connection. 

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/73179/#73273

And thanks for starting a new link on this Gunter. The old one was getting pretty lengthy.  This new one, is a continuation of the old discussion found below, which is basically a continuation of a discussion with Gunter that has been ongoing this year.

If I get the chance, I will put up the dozen+ links to those threads  in one post for others with open minds to see the history and learn a few things.

  Why do Covid frontline workers refuse to be vaccinated ?            

                            28 responses |                

                Started by GunterK - Aug. 5, 2021, 1:02 p.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/73179/

Thank you for allowing me to start a continued link..

Your focus is on the one comment I made, for which I don’t have a link.

For those who are new to this subject… a quick background presentation.

There is a mRNA scientist (for whom I don’t have a link) who made the following prediction, long before the arrival of the Delta:

He stated that the human body has a natural immune system that is designed to fight off incoming viruses. (we know all that). He further stated that the mRNA shot destroys this natural immune system and replaces it. The problem with the mRNA shot is that it is “target specific”… it is designed to deal only with the Covid19. This would leave the body defenseless against other incoming viruses, and possibly even against other Corona viruses.

This explanation explains why the efficacy of the vaxx has dropped so rapidly since the arrival of the Delta, and it would explain why we are now hearing strange comments about vaccinated people being infected more than unvaccinated people.  To me, this is a logical explanation of the things happening in the recent past.

Quite possibly his comments are part of the long list of links I presented above… but I couldn’t find it.

Of course, the main objection to this man’s comments is the statement about the jab destroying the immune system… that’s the key issue,  since some are telling us that the mRNA jab “strengthens” the immune system.

However, here is a link to another person who also talks about the vaxx destroying the immune system.

https://www.infowars.com/posts/video-covid-19-vaccine-program-director-admits-injection-destroys-immune-system/

Again, I respect the fact that some 150 mill people have been vaccinated in the US, and they are still alive.

However, I also believe that everyone should be given a chance to hear views opposing the partyline, so that they can make an informed decision.  People who only listen to the MSM are not well-informed.

If the MSM published all the alarming things listed in the above list of links, you wouldn’t hear a beep from me.

Most medications are supposed to be handed out with a page of disclosures and warnings. In our case here, and in this internet information age, it is just the opposite… there is a well-organized effort underway to keep important information hidden from the People. Even the POTUS is now encouraging vaxx censorship.   And that is disturbing

BTW... talking about the president...  Biden's border policies allow huge numbers of untested migrants to enter the US.  How many thousands of "Covid spreaders" are coming into the US on a daily basis?

Gunter says: For those who are new to this subject… a quick background presentation.

There is a mRNA scientist (for whom I don’t have a link) who made the following prediction, long before the arrival of the Delta:

He stated that the human body has a natural immune system that is designed to fight off incoming viruses. (we know all that). He further stated that the mRNA shot destroys this natural immune system and replaces it. The problem with the mRNA shot is that it is “target specific”… it is designed to deal only with the Covid19. This would leave the body defenseless against other incoming viruses, and possibly even against other Corona viruses.

This explanation explains why the efficacy of the vaxx has dropped so rapidly since the arrival of the Delta, and it would explain why we are now hearing strange comments about vaccinated people being infected more than unvaccinated people.  To me, this is a logical explanation of the things happening in the recent past."

metmike:

1. Since you don't have a link or a name or source, I would appreciate it if you stopped repeating something that you think that you remember that makes no sense on this Gunter. When you can't find  something after repeated searches and neither can I.........it's time to be honest and acknowledge that it doesn't exist. No.......it didn't get deleted by the evil gatekeepers trying to control us. 

2. On the source that you provided............finally we are getting somewhere. You will note that his case IS FOR BOOSTER SHOTS. Why would he be for MORE COVID shots if he were against the vaccinations? You are misinterpreting his findings thanks to INFO wars misleading you, which show, like flu shots, the benefits wear off and like I have been saying, I will be the first in line for my booster shot. This is very expected.

Here's a number of posts from your supposedly anti COVID vaxx  guy(he's actually for MORE COVID shots, not less. I copied couple of his posts below. 

https://twitter.com/DavidLVBauer/status/1409640461224976384

David LV Bauer@DavidLVBauer

·

Jun 28

Where does this leave us? UK vaccine rollout has been a great success, 2nd doses essential vs Delta. Tightrope next few weeks... but situation now dire for countries with low vaccination. So less complaining about summer holidays, please. 20/20

This is one of the links/sources that your supposedly anti COVID vax guy posted:

David LVBauer@DavidLVBauer

·

Jun 28

As before, we show a "best-case" picture: young (34y), healthy cohort... but WE HAVE THE TOOLS to assess ahead of time - live virus neutralisation assays (like ours) give the best indication of vaccine efficacy (known as "correlate of protection") https://medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.21.21258528v1

  12/n

Correlates of protection against symptomatic and asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infectionBackground Although 6 COVID-19 vaccines have been approved by the World Health Organisation as of 16th June 2021, global supply remains limited. An understanding of the immune response associated...medrxiv.org

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.21.21258528v1

Results Higher levels of all immune markers were correlated with a reduced risk of symptomatic infection. Vaccine efficacy of 80% against primary symptomatic COVID-19 was achieved with an antibody level of 40923 (95% CI: 16748, 125017) and 63383 (95% CI: 16903, not computed (NC)) for anti-spike and anti-RBD, and 185 (95% CI: NC, NC) and 247 (95% CI: 101, NC) for pseudo- and live-neutralisation assays respectively.

Gunter,

I totally can see why you haven't been giving me names and sources...........because they will get scrutinized by a real scientist and your science is INFO Wars science. I showed you this guys actual position. His written words and posts and links.

Got any other experts from Info Wars that you want me to look at?

I strongly suggest, as a friend that instead of just believing everything you hear/read on Info Wars or similar sources,  that you apply the scientific method and do some fact checking of their stuff. You are way smart enough and capable enough to do that yourself...........you don't need me to do it for you but I'm more than happy to do it.

It's really good to get all authentic, honest views.

To get a well rounded understanding of the big picture.............to see both sides.

Alex Jones is not capable of providing authentic, honest views. I've been to his site hundreds of times in the past. He is a very dishonest, biased man that lies and distorts science and facts.

I could give you dozens of examples of totally insane nonsense that Alex Jones has stated in the past.

Again, I'm an independent, objective scientist with no affiliation to a political party. 

Going to those places will fill your head with bunk and it explains why a very smart man, that used to be objective has shunned all the authentic science. 

 This is a rating from an objective source. I see that another of your recent anti vax sources, Natural News is on there too.....just below INFOWARS.  

If you think that I'm not being honest about this Gunter, please tell me why I would be doing it or why INFOWARS is almost off the chart for bias and credibility? 

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/infowars-bias-and-reliability/

From Forbes:

Alex Jones' Top 10 Health Claims And Why They Are Wrong

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2018/08/16/alex-jones-top-10-health-claims-and-why-they-are-wrong/?sh=6c07ddc93e7f

Alex Jones’ 5 most disturbing and ridiculous conspiracy theories

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/alex-jones-5-most-disturbing-ridiculous-conspiracy-theories.html

The government has ‘weather weapons’

Chemicals in the water are turning frogs gay

Robert Mueller is a demon, and also a pedophile

The Sandy Hook shooting was staged

Hillary Clinton is running a child sex ring out of a pizza parlor

Gunter, THIS is what the article I sent you was pointing to...........with Jones conning you for HIS self serving interests.

Conspiracy Theories Made Alex Jones Very Rich. They May Bring Him Down.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/07/us/politics/alex-jones-business-infowars-conspiracy.html

Alex Jones: Five Things to Know

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/alex-jones-five-things-to-know

It makes me very unhappy to see this piece of crap of a human being getting rich off some good/honest people including you Gunter.  I think that if you realized that he's using you like this, you would be outraged.

One of our most important rights and freedoms as human beings is the right to know the truth. Jones is stealing the intelligence of his viewers and depriving them of this most important right.........the right to the truth.

Ironically, he is disguising his pack of lies as being the secret truth that nobody else will tell you to trick you into tuning into his lies.

Of course nobody else tells you what he does. Nobody else lies as much as him and takes away as much of your right to the truth as Alex Jones does........NOBODY.

As always, when I  make a statement it comes with facts. The last several pages are loaded with the facts/evidence to solidly support/irrefutably prove this position.

MM

I need your help

I am currently in Hosp. with a blood infection that does strange things to me

I can not do a link, so this is the best I can do

To-nite I woke up and hrs get confused in this place, thus my strange posting time

Any how. I was reading Zero Hedge and they were reporting on the CDC director and her interview on CNN

I may be wrong but it seemed as if the CDC director was saying there is no difference in rate of infections of asymtomatic people if they are vaccinated or not

What she did say was a vaxinated person would not suffer as severe repercussions as non vaxinated. She then went on to use Gibralter and Iceland as examples

Will you help me by reading this article/interview by CDC director via CNN via Zero Hedge and comment

Please Mike-you know I can't do a link so I give as much info that I can, but a link would be so much better,  this is the best I can do. I am in hosp. due to a type of blood poisoning, caused by a hole in my foot called a diabetic ulcer, unfortunately I had blood poisoning with this ulcer which everybody missed which does strange things to your body. It suddenly within 24 hrs. affected my ability to walk and also any new task my brain can now, not absorb. This must have been happening for some time.. I must have had this brain condition for a long time but until I could not walk thought nothing of it, considered brain activity a sign of old age, when it must be more serious. When I suddenly could not walk, then a call for the ambulance and here I am. Dr says a blood disease will do strange things any place in your body as blood is every where. Now I understand why my brain refused to learn certain tasks such as a link, but of coarse so far no medical proof exists for my brain activity. As of now the focus is on the blood poisoning which brings a fever with it, to get me walking, with some balance and back home.

I know your thoughts re: Gunter, via the above posts but I found this interview on CNN/Zero Hedge very interesting and perhaps worthy of your thoughts.

I thought Zero Hedge was just reporting what the CDC director and CNN said, but perhaps I am mistaken.

metmike, I don’t know how to deal with this anymore.

Over and over you keep pushing for a link for that one and only scientist who had a very logical explanation for all the happenings with the Delta right now. From the very beginning I have stated that I can’t find the link.

I then presented a link that touched the subject of the vaxx disabling your immune system.. You replied “Here's a number of posts from your supposedly anti COVID vaxx  guy (he's actually for MORE COVID shots, not less.I copied couple of his posts below. “

There was no need to do so.. I know, this man is from the other side. He is in the business of telling people to get vaccinated and even recommends booster shots.. Yet, he admitted that the vaxx messes with your immune system… which was at the core of that mRNA scientist for whom I don’t have a link.

you wrote: “Alex Jones is not capable of providing authentic, honest view”.Alex Jones is not a virologist. I don’t believe I have ever quoted any of his Covid opinions on this forum. What I have done is quote opinions from top scientists in their field, for which he provided a platform… and for those I provided links.

However, for you, the opinions of these top scientists are cr*p

Since you kept accusing me, over and over again, of not providing links, I gave you a list of about 200 of them... not all of them from infowars.  . Most of those posted by infowars are simply articles that were taken and copied from other sources.

Some of these links spell out in detail all the bad things the vaxx has done to people, right after vaccination. These are facts, not B.S., regardless of which site presents them.And most of the population has no clue about any of this.

Thousands of Covi vaxx deaths may not be a lot when compared to Covid fatalities.However, thousands of vaxx deaths is a lot, when a person is trying to decide whether to take the shot.

This list of links also contains interviews with top scientists in this field, as well as vaccine company insiders.  It seems to me, their warnings should be given some attention, rather than calling them cr*p. only because they were presented by one of those hated websites.

Again, the typical MSM watcher has no clue about any of this.

As I stated before, I do respect the often quoted fact that some 150 mill people in the US are vaxxed, and they are still alive. This has to be considered, when a person is trying to decide what to do. We also have to consider that the vaxx is still in the experimental stage.

But I do believe, everybody should be given a complete picture, including all the bad things that could happen to you right after vaccination, or what could happen to you 2-3 years from now, as some experts claim. And that information is being withheld by the sites you always quote.

I have no agenda… I only wanted to share information with forum friends.… however, on the other side, many entities do have an agenda.

*********

I can see that my efforts to share are leading nowhere, other than  arguments...Everything I bring up is called “cr*p”.It is a waste of time for me, and an aggravation.

It’s time for me to disengage from this discussion..

Thanks Gunter,

On a planet of 8,000,000,000 and country of 329,000,000 anybody can find 200 incidents/situations........in fact probably over 2,000  things that are exceptions to the rule. I can take rare diseases, and just post about the people that have them and those situations and make it look like they  are widespread/prevalent. 

Sharing that is not sharing objective, authentic science it's letting the dishonest Alex Jones control your brain......convincing you the outliers ARE the science.

I totally understand him. That's exactly  what he does to trick people with his con jobs. He takes anomalies and exceptions, then mixes in a grain of truth to get people to think it must ALL be true and spins wild, stories. Some are purely speculative, others are pure contrived bs meant to intentionally contradict all the mainstream sources.........and paint a picture that only he has this...........and is being censored by mainstream everybody/the gatekeepers. He wants his viewers/readers to think that the only way to get the truth, is to tune into him. ........a singular voice crying out in the middle of censorship. 

Ironically, the reason that only he has so much of this crazy sounding stuff is that it's based on the biggest lies.  Going to his site numerous times and believing his stuff is a true sign of a captured mind. 

Very similar to being in a religious cult.  

When I get a chance, later today. I will compile a list of the dozen plus discussions here on this topic that featured the 2 of us that  have all the authentic science and data. 

Again, I don't claim to know everything but as an objective, independent  scientist for 39 years that has spent many hundreds of hours on COVID, I'm well educated on this topic and can see with absolute certainty what Alex Jones is doing...........which defines his marketing schemes in EVERY realm, so it's just who he is.

Sharing Alex Jones anti science, anti government hog wash has just one plus here..............I can expose him to others that don't have completely captured minds and enlighten minds with authentic science/truth. 

You will note that I never censored you, like other sites do his stuff or other things like this. That will never happen here to you.........EVER because you are a sincere, true gentleman that NEVER makes personal attacks on others and always gives great thought into his posts, including these. 

You are a great example of the right demeanor to have in a discussion that has zero chance of ever ending in agreement. Being open minded would be at the top of the list, but right up there is to avoid vicious attacks between 2 people when having a disagreement that one party is emotionally attached to.

I also have to thank you tremendously for forcing me to do more than triple the research I would have done  on COVID this Summer in order to investigate your points.  I learned a ton of things along the way. You have had some valid points embedded in the brainwash...........which include that the benefits of the vaccine are waning with time. Knowing that and being one of the first to get vaccinated early this year, I will be first in line for the booster!

You will note that this is just doing what I promised to do after taking over here over 3 years ago.

https://www.marketforum.com/about/

ObjectivesDevelop the minds and character of our youth thru the game of chess. Enlighten all ages about the current climate optimum, featuring the best weather and climate in the last 1,000 years(and massive benefits of increasing CO2) using data and authentic science to battle the misinformation about the competely fake climate crisis. Encourage expression of RESPECTFUL thoughts from those that disagree and receive them with an open mind/heart, hoping to learn from others. Stress and demonstate love and tolerance, while showing the damaging affects of hatred to peoples lives. Reveal the truth...........expose lies, especially in the political realm, which sadly includes most climate science today.

Hey Fellas

Let it go. Neither of you will ever feel vindicated so why all the energy. Although I do think MM has gone the extra mile as moderator of the forum

Gunter, you should appreciate MM and his talents and dedication to the forum. You don't have to give up your principals or beliefs, but we all know where you are coming from. 

So Gunter enuff said

MM Tks for going the extra mile and you have also said enuff

Now for either of you would you please comment on the Zero Hedge article which I thought was straight reporting and no bias in my previous  post

I explained my health condition which I find  hard to believe but any way a link from me is impossible. However, I believe I gave enough info in my previous post to find what I am talking about

I’ll get to it ASAP Wayne. Waiting in an hour long line to get my wife tested for COVID.

 know your thoughts re: Gunter, via the above posts but I found this interview on CNN/Zero Hedge very interesting and perhaps worthy of your thoughts.

"I thought Zero Hedge was just reporting what the CDC director and CNN said, but perhaps I am mistaken"

Wayne,

I looked earlier for it and just again now but can't find it. 

Do you at least have a date?  That would help.

Wayne,

I'm concerned about your health. 

Sounds like you have diabetes pretty bad. This can be a wicked, killer disease.

Are you controlling your blood sugars. Taking insulin...........watching what you eat?

Foot sores happen in 15% of diabetics so this is fairly common but can lead to gangrene and amputation of the part of the foot that is not able to heal itself.

Most will heal but 6% require hospitalization. That is YOU. But this condition is very preventable. I'm sure all your doctors are giving you the best advice on that right now.

From The University of Michigan school of Medicine:

https://www.uofmhealth.org/conditions-treatments/podiatry-foot-care/frequently-asked-questions-diabetic-foot-ulcers

Do you or did you have any of these conditions below:

Diabetic Foot Problems

https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/foot-problems

Wayne,

Appreciate the positive comments  about this discussion.

Don't worry a bit about me, I continued to learn news things as its progressed and will stay on the path which provides with the most learning. 

I had been increasingly concerned about Gunter, starting earlier in the Summer and mentioned that numerous times. His posts yesterday confirmed how bad it  really was. He is having his intelligence stolen like everybody else that goes to this site to get their secret dose of anti MSM manufactured realities...........that appeal to people's wishful thinking. 

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/73341/#73347

Alex Jones is one of the most dangerous people in the world right now.  He's is causing  millions of people to not get vaccinated, with his anti science bunk,  which will end up costing many thousands of deaths......all to push stuff that personally enriches himself.

HI Mike

I could not find the article either with a quick search

I am being discharged from Hosp. today so I have no idea when I will be back on the forum. Don't worry about a search, I may be able to locate once I get home or maybe not????

You are correct, if my disease was not attended to soonest it could become very serious. One side effect, if it did happen has a 50% mortality rate

I asked and fortunately my disease can be controlled. I already visit a clinic and foot Dr on a weekly basis with my wife performing nursing duties on the odd days when I don't see any body. Don't know what I would do if by myself???? as it is impossible to reach, see and dress properly by myself, an open wound on the bottom of my foot. My joints are not that flexible.

I am told I have a mild bacterial infection two layers of skin deep, what ever that means. I am on a heavy dose of anti bacterial  IV drip 3 times daily

The purpose is to reduce redness, inflammation, heat, swollen lower leg muscle and also attend to my open diabetic ulcer. By the way, medication controls my diabetic condition very well.

The good news is I am going home today, I have access to at least  4 possibly 5 different people, each with a specialty, so I think, given time, I will survive. This all started way back in Dec 2020 but the end is in sight, I think

The part that surprised me was that my kind of blood infection, and most others, can attack any organ or?? in your body. That may be why I could not learn new procedures and I find spelling a bit more difficult. This old lap top just tells me if I make a mistake, but not the correction

Best to you Mike and MF  members

When I get re-arranged at home I will be back

Thanks Wayne!

Looking forward to hearing back from you and happy healing!!!