Gunter,

I am all for using Ivermectin but getting vaccinated improves your chances of survival by 10+ times compared to not getting vaccinated.

Using the low vaccination rates of low income countries like India as an example of how they are doing better than the high income, high vaccination rate countries is a very sneaky cherry pick that might trick some people.

Because they are low income, they have very few old people Gunter. A high income causes you to have a longer life. As you know, COVID kills older people at a much MUCH higher rate than younger people.

India only has 6% of the population that is aged 65+.

The US has 16% of our population that is aged 65+.

They also live in a tropical climate which has a beneficial affect(the 1 hour survival time for a virus is cut by 50% when you double the absolute humidity/moisture in the air).

It's off the rocker absurd, to compare vaccinated people in the US with an aging population that's 2.5 times higher to a less vaccinated, much younger and  totally different country like India and try to pass it off as apples to apples  authentic vaccination science.

And at the same time.............reject all the authentic statistics comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated people in the exact same country.......the United States.

This is cherry picking on steroids.

https://www.prb.org/resources/countries-with-the-oldest-populations-in-the-world/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/526596/age-structure-in-israel/

Israel = 12.41% of the population is 65+

Again,  I think people should consider Ivermectin and other supplements IN COMBINATION with the most effective (by an extremely wide margin) choice for protection......vaccination. 

Sadly, there are 2 sides that insist that you have to do one or the other but not both. We have to assume that the ones using Ivermectin have NOT been vaccinated because of this. 

The data is so convincing in favor vaccinations and conclusive that one has to ask those not accepting it "Hello! Hello!..... is there a light on inside???"

Since NOT accepting that is killing, not maybe killing but for certain KILLING, thousands of Americans with certainty and totally unccesarily because of bullshit, nafarious far right crap sources using politics (don't believe or follow anything from  Fauci, don't believe the CDC, Don't believe Biden, don't let the government tell you what to do.....you have the God given right to get COVID and spread it to whoever you want......F science and F my neighbor......this is a powerful, defining tenant in the far right's COVID cult religion!)

For the authentic science/data, see here:

                By metmike - Sept. 23, 2021, 5:23 a.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75252/#75261

I'll be adding to my PRO Ivermectin posts shortly.

                Ivermectin/how to get to the truth            

                            27 responses |          

                Started by metmike - Sept. 7, 2021, 4:10 p.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/74636/

I used to crinch when I thought of using a horse dewormer.... howcer, the more I read, the more attractive it looks

Dr. Miskovits (that's the virologist who had a falling out with Dr Fauci, when she used to work with him at the NAIAD, during the AIDS days... she had accused him of serious wrong-doing)... she calls Ivermectin her "vaccine"

It tastes horrible for sure!!!

The first time that  I used it, with a tiny dose, I diluted it with around 10 times water and found that it made it MUCH worse. 

The taste isn't as intense when you dilute it but the quantity makes in worse.

It's MUCH, MUCH better to drink it (1/2 oz) in a shot glass straight up, undiluted then wash it down with whatever.......I use water. Or have a bite or 2 of food.  

I'm using the liquid. There are other forms.

It tastes like a strong chemical for sure but the taste goes away pretty quickly.

As a body builder and power lifter in the past that would take all sorts of awful tasting stuff and somebody that uses a ton of off label supplements, for my autoimmune disease.......I would eat dog sheet if I thought it would do some good. 

And this does. 

My wife really squawked over having to take it.

The question was, why is India going so well, being hardly vaccinated, and Israel, being highly vaccinated, is suffering from a “pandemic of the vaccinated”

Your explanation:

“ [snip] …. is a very sneaky cherry pick that might trick some people.  Because they are low income, they have very few old people Gunter. A high income causes you to have a longer life. As you know, COVID kills older people at a much MUCH higher rate than younger people.”

My response:

If they are so poor that people die at an earlier age, then the whole population must not be in very good health to begin with… that’s why they die earlier.

Look at all the facilities we have here, in our country…we have countless clean hospitals… most people are wealthy enough to have some kind of health insurance… we see our doctors regularly to stay in good health…the poorer people in the US have things like MediCal and free clinics that provide the less fortunate with health care..

The folks in poor countries have very lite of this. They are not in good health throughout the various “age groups”… they lack the care we take for granted… that’s why fewer people reach old age.  All of their “age groups” would be considered “high risk” groups, by our standards.

Sorry…. pointing at poverty and bad health in India is raising even more questions, and makes the comparison India vs Israel even more inexplainable

The question still stands… Israel is a rich country.  Israelis have the means to keep their bodies healthy.. and they are pumped full of vaccines… and yet, they have a “pandemic of the vaccinated”..,.. and India  (with a 14% vaccination rate)  does not. 

....and,, as bear pointed out... it seems that vacination rate has nothing to do with any of this. 

Gunter: "My response:

If they are so poor that people die at an earlier age, then the whole population must not be in very good health to begin with… that’s why they die earlier.

Look at all the facilities we have here, in our country…we have countless clean hospitals… most people are wealthy enough to have some kind of health insurance… we see our doctors regularly to stay in good health…the poorer people in the US have things like MediCal and free clinics that provide the less fortunate with health care..

The folks in poor countries have very lite of this. They are not in good health throughout the various “age groups”… they lack the care we take for granted… that’s why fewer people reach old age.  All of their “age groups” would be considered “high risk” groups, by our standards.

Sorry…. pointing at poverty and bad health in India is raising even more questions, and makes the comparison India vs Israel even more inexplainable"

metmike: Now to use your own defense as the evidence to show that you are wrong to compare India's COVID deaths to the US's COVID deaths using apples to apples science that assumes there are not huge OTHER variables causing major differences in the COVID deaths.

The top 10 causes of death in India

https://www.hindustantimes.com/health/the-top-10-causes-of-death-in-india/story-lFLxCFVHmF7svw2RKCl70K.html

Number of deaths for leading causes of death-US-top 10

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

Medical Conditions in Adults that increase the risk of death in COVID

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html

metmike: There are a few that are similar in both countries but just as many that are NOT similar because of massively different factors in health conditions and age in the 2 countries........including people in the US are OLDER and MUCH MORE VULNERABLE( 2.5 times higher % of 65+ in the US). Let's take them in the order they appear on the link above.

1. Cancer. This is the #2 killer in the US and is not even in the top 10 in India. Age is a huge factor.

2. Kidney disease. This is the #8 killer in the US and is not in the top 10 for India. Age is a huge  factor.

3. Lung disease. Bad Lungs are involved equally in both countries.

4. Dementia/Alzeimers. Not on the top 10 in India......BECAUSE of the difference that this is all about........age. It's the #6 killer in the US.

5. Other neurological conditions. This is not on either countries top 10 killer list.

6. Diabetes. This is not a top 10 killer in India but is #7 in the US and age makes it worse.

7. Down syndrome.  Not a top 10 killer.

8. Respiratory infections. Equal in killing power for both countries.

9. Heart conditions and stroke...........Equal in killing power for both countries.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Additionally, you site dirty hospitals and crummy health care as a reason for more people to die of COVID in India(even though you have insisted for months, that they were using Ivermectin to treat and cure COVID over there which makes their healthcare treatment far superior to ours which doesn't use Ivermectin......... which is a 100% contradiction of yourself about the effectiveness of the treatment for COVID between the countries.

Which is it Gunter?

Is the poor treatment for COVID sick people  in India making it worse for people in India as you now claim or

Is it like you were saying before.......that the better treatment for COVID(using Ivermectin) is the entire reason for them to do better?

You continually  twist the facts to suit your anti scientific method of assessing the situation.

Here in the US, we have massive reliable data being accumulated by very honest health care workers and organizations that show the difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated................for people living ONLY in the US that are subjected to apples to apples, authentic science circumstances.

Why in tarnation would you repeatedly reject this???

For the authentic science/data, see here:

                By metmike - Sept. 23, 2021, 5:23 a.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75252/#75261

The reason?

Because your position, along with the entire far right, by definition has been to REJECT any information that comes from:

1. Dr. Fauci

2. The CDC

3. The government

4. President Biden

5. The WHO

6. Anything that infringes on the freedom/right to choose related to COVID

This is exactly like TDS(Trump derangement syndrome).............EXACTLY only being applied to a new situation by the other party....which ironically, is doing EXACTLY what it accuses the other party of doing. ...........only it's killing many thousands of people doing it.

Instead of taking your intelligence back by actually comprehending these objective truths and using critical thinking, you go back to the echo chambers of people with the same irrational, dangerous thinking to have it reinforced by each other by repeating absurd things based on a manufactured reality which follows the rejection tenants of the cult defined above.

Not by any coincidence, these same tenants of the religion cause these same people to also believe the election was stolen from Trump using a magical mystery vote stealing trick that, after almost a year, still has not been identified, despite numerous investigations, recounts and overwhelming authentic evidence to prove that it didn't happen.

I really need to apologize to the People of India.  I have never been to India and should not have made negative comments about this country's healthcare system

I fell into a trap.... I responded to an argument that was made.... the argument that said that the people in India die at a younger age, because India is a poor county

I then compared US health care with that of India, not knowing anything about India’s health care system.

Again, my apologies to the country of India and its people.

****

Coming back to this discussion…

Common sense tells us… when young people and middle-aged people are in great health, they have no problem living to an old age.

People die before reaching old age, because they have medical problems during middle age.

So, what’s the point?  You then listed the 10 top causes of death for India and the USA. I have no idea how this would change the India story in any way..

You then wrote

“Is the poor treatment for COVID sick people  in India making it worse for people in India as you now claim or”

Now you are twisting things around. My original post stated that India successfully dealt with the Delta, without vaccines.You are the one who mentioned India being poor and not many people reaching old age… and that’s why, in your opinion, India did so well.

I tried to argue this… If your argument was valid, India would have been hit harder by the Delta, than it was. If your argument about poverty in India was valid and relevant, it would make India’s success even more astonishing

Repeating the old statistics about how well vaccinations work in the USA, is somewhat of a mute point, when we are discussing a country that dealt with virus better than we do, and they did it without vaccines… while we (and other countries), with our aggressive vaccination programs, are unable to make the virus go away.

So far, I have not seen any comment explaining this astonishing situation.

And, not surprisingly, in the end we hear about those awful people on the far right, the “cult”, the people who have their intelligence stolen, the people with dangerous, irrational thinking, who live in a manufactured reality.

OK… let’s leave it at that.. yeah…a manufactured reality..that’s what that India story is  (sarcasm intended).

I am sure, there are lots of people here who hate to even see India’s success mentioned.  It messes up their belief system and their faith in Dr Fauci’s team.

"I am sure, there are lots of people here who hate to even see India’s success mentioned.  It messes up their belief system and their faith in Dr Fauci’s team."

metmike: There you go again Gunter. Showing us that you DO see this as belief systems..........your anti Fauci religion rebelling against Fauci religion. 

One problem..............I have disagreed with much of the Fauci crapola(masks, origin of COVID, lock downs etc).

I represent authentic, objective, independent science that has zero to do with Fauci or the other things that you reject because you represent a belief system, that is defined by its rejecting of another belief system.

Why do you continue to cling to the far right,  cherry picked interpretation that requires you doing extreme anti science backflips(that you don't even see when I prove them to you with absolute exactness) , going to far away places so you can misinterpret results?

Why not just stay here, in your own country and address the authentic science and pretend that it's not tied to Fauci(which causes you reject it)?

                By metmike - Sept. 23, 2021, 5:23 a.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75252/#75261

Gunter,

The price you pay here in not being censored for showing junk science, like you would be at other places that you don't like is that you will be challenged with authentic science by an objective, independant, non Fauci, non CDC, non liberal, non government scientist.

You are ok with that right?

My favorite posts here are those that disagree with me. They offer the best opportunities for learning new things. 

Closed minds circulate the same old information and reject new information so they can keep the same opinion.

Open minds allow new information in to consider for potentially adjusting the old opinions.........if the new information is authentic. 

You are ok with that right?

This is why I've incorporated Ivermectin into my COVID fighting repertoire!

                Ivermectin/how to get to the truth            

                            32 responses |        

                Started by metmike - Sept. 7, 2021, 4:10 p.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/74636/

Hospitals have been filling up in the US with real Americans, some of them dying because of junk science making people afraid to get vaccinated and telling them that vaccinations don’t work.

The authentic science matters here more than the politics.

If you are not vaccinated............forget the politics..........at least make an exception just this one time and use the science........take your brains and intelligence back and do the right thing for you, your family and America.

If it's been 8 months since you were vaccinated........get the COVID booster shot. It's the right ethical thing to do and is following the authentic science.

It doesn't matter what you hear on FOX news or INFOWARS or your favorite site for telling you the news that lines up with your political ideology.

Neither political side has a franchise on the right thing to do or the authentic science. This is the most important decision that American's have facing them right now...........by an extremely wide margin.  Do the right thing, not the political thing............for you, your loved ones, people you encounter.......for America!!

If this saves just 1 life...............it will be worth it. Hopefully more lives than that!

You can take Ivermectin(my wife and I did) and the other treatments too and have even MORE protection but just do what offers the best protection by a wide margin............GET VACCINATED!!

Thanks to my brother Brian for sending the article below!

Doctor who has lost over 100 patients to covid says some deny virus from their death beds: ‘I don’t believe you’

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2021/09/25/doctor-who-has-lost-over-100-patients-to-covid-says-some-deny-virus-from-their-death-beds-i-dont-believe-you/

"Matthew Trunsky is used to people being angry at him.

As a pulmonologist and director of the palliative care unit at a Beaumont Health hospital in southeastern Michigan, Trunsky sees some of the facility’s sickest patients and is often the bearer of bad news.

He gets it. No one is prepared to hear their loved one is dying.

But when a well-regarded intensive care unit nurse told him during a recent shift that the wife of an unvaccinated covid patient had berated her when she informed the woman of her husband’s deteriorating condition, Trunsky, who has lost more than 100 patients to the coronavirus, reached his breaking point.

When he got home that evening, he made himself a sandwich and opened Facebook.

Still sporting his black scrubs, he began to vent. He wrote about a critically ill patient who disputed his covid-19 diagnosis. Another threatened to call his lawyer if he wasn’t given ivermectin, an anti-parasite drug that is not approved for treating covid. A third, Trunsky wrote, told the doctor they would rather die than take one of the vaccines.

One demanded a different doctor, “I don’t believe you,” he told the physician.

The physician added: “Of course the answer was to have been vaccinated - but they were not and now they’re angry at the medical community for their failure.”

Trunsky’s post detailing his interactions with eight covid patients and their relatives highlights the resistance and mistreatment some health care workers across the U.S. face while caring for patients who have put off or declined getting vaccinated. Trunsky estimates that nine out of every 10 covid patients he treats are unvaccinated.

His post - a plea for people to get vaccinated - also reveals the physical and emotional toll the pandemic has had on health care workers, who have been on the front lines for over a year and a half. Roughly 3 out of 10 have considered leaving the profession, according to a Washington Post-Kaiser Family Foundation poll, and about 6 in 10 say stress from the pandemic has harmed their mental health.

Some doctors are refusing to treat unvaccinated patients. Last month, an Alabama physician posed beside a sign announcing he would not treat any unvaccinated patients as of Oct. 1. Earlier this month, a Florida doctor sent a letter to her patients informing them that she would not be treating any unvaccinated patients in person after Sept. 15.

Trunsky, 55, empathizes with other burned-out medical workers.

“We are physically tired as a whole, me included, and we are emotionally exhausted . . . I don’t think a week goes by that I don’t see someone pass away,” he told The Post.

Early into the pandemic, Trunsky spent about four hours a day calling patients’ families to update them on their loved ones’ status. Some of those conversations still affect him, like the time he called a woman to share the news that her father had died. “I’m sorry I can’t take your call right now‚” he recalled her telling him. “We’re burying my mother.”

Another time, when calling a woman to report her brother was dying, the woman - before Trunsky said anything - answered with, “Look, my mother died, my father died, my brother died and I don’t want any bad news.”

But what makes him sadder, he told The Post, “are the ones I don’t remember.” He has lost too many patients during the global pandemic to recall them all.

Throughout most of 2020, Trunsky and his staff faced surge after surge of coronavirus patients. So when the Food and Drug Administration authorized the first vaccine last December, Trunsky said morale and hope were restored at his hospital. That did not last long, though. As vaccination rates plateaued and the highly contagious delta variant began to spread, hospital beds began filling back up.

Trunsky said patients he sees give different reasons for not taking one of the vaccines. Some, he said, regret the decision - like a nursing mother who said she was concerned about how a vaccine might affect her newborn baby. Others, Trunsky said, remain convinced they made the right choice - even on their death beds.

Whatever their reasons, he told The Post, “they are paying the price, and they are getting mad at us.”

And while he said it is easier to deal with appreciative patients than those threatening to sue if he will not give them ivermectin, he remains committed to treating anyone battling covid with the same level of care.

As for those he wrote about in his Facebook post after the tough shift earlier this month, six out of the eight have since died, he said.

Two, including the husband of the woman who berated the ICU nurse, remain in critical condition."

metmike: Gunter, your(and others) total denialism of the huge benefits of the vaccine, along with the low risks is not unique at all in this country right now. Actually, its extremely widespread and is killing many thousands of people right now, many times more than just the ones in this story. 

We can only do our best to communicate the authentic science/truth. 

Again, you accused me of using ‘junk science’

I checked my original post again…. There is no mention of “junk’ science… nor any other kind of science.

The post is simply a report of India having managed their pandemic quite well without vaccination, while highly vaccinated Israel is experiencing a “pandemic of the vaccinated”.

A brainwashed person wouldn’t pay any attention to this report. However, any person with a little bit of “open mind” left in his brain, should ask the question “what is going on here?’ This does not match the “science “ of the Pandemic as it has been described to us.

And from a USA perspective:

India has managed the pandemic quite well without vaccines, and we are being told that everybody has to be vaccinated.. “If you are not vaccinated, the virus will kill you”.

Let’s stop for a moment and think.  This does not make sense.  If the vaccine really works as they claim, this would not have happened in Israel.

There are other locations on earth that can be included in this discussion.  However, India and Israel are 2 significant countries in this matter.

It amazes me, how this issue is glossed over. … and total silence in the MSM propaganda machine

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75350/#75378

       https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75409/#75413         

                By metmike - Sept. 26, 2021, 12:28 p.m.            

Every scientist knows that in a science experiment, if you want credible results to prove something is tied to something else, you keep all the variables constant EXCEPT FOR THE ONE that you are trying to show caused the results to change when you changed only that 1 variable.

India vs Israel or India vs the US is the exact way to NOT do a credible science experiment to see how the vaccinated vs unvaccinated compare because of the several significant variables that are different and are affecting the results.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75350/#75353

How about the US vaccinated vs the US unvaccinated...............where the only changed variable is vaccination? Why is this not no brainer science???

 By metmike - Sept. 23, 2021, 5:23 a.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75252/#75261

Gunter,

Do you not see this??