If you live in Joe Biden’s world, you have no idea of the things I am addressing here. You would have to go to “outlier sources’ to find out about them.
Yes the Covid vaxx does create “adverse reactions” in some recipients, such as myocarditis, heart attacks, strokes, blood clots, paralysis, and, of course, death…. as well as many of the symptoms we see on Covid patients.
There is an official government data base, called VAERS…. a place, where all “adverse reactions to a vaccine are supposed to be recorded.
Apparently, I upset some folks on this forum when I recently posted that the medical staff in our hospitals do not report all adverse reactions to the vaxx…. simply because they don’t have the time to waste 30 minutes on report-writing, while they have patients in critical condition.
Apparently, some of our forum friends found this hard to believe, since medical facilities are required to register all “adverse reactions to vaccination”.
I did a little bit of research and found the following old data….
The old study below is of course not about Covid, but about reporting requirements on other vaccines… and it says “.. a confidential study conducted by Connaught Laboratories, a vaccine manufacturer, indicated that “a fifty-fold underreporting of adverse events” is likely”.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0960327112440111
and here is a 10-year old report about reporting requirements…
”Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)”
In other words…. ‘under-reporting” is nothing new in this business.
As of Sep 17, the VAERS data base shows 726,965 adverse reactions to the Covid vaxx, including 15,386 deaths.
What are the real numbers ??? If you took the above old studies seriously and multiplied the VAERS numbers with their factors....unthinkable, huh?
In the meantime, an attorney named Renz collected data from the much larger CMS data base and found that almost 50,000 medicare recipients died within 14 days after vaccination.
As a general rule I feel that anytime someone points out a problem they have the obligation to put forward a solution.
Tell me Gunter, what do you suggest doing ? You’ve never said what the medical community should be doing instead of promoting the vaccine we have available to us ? Not that I’ve seen anyway.
Should we all just resign ourselves to getting the virus and let the chips fall where they may ? Let the weak die? Let the intensive care wards overflow and ration the care ? All this when a vaccine is available that would prevent the vast majority of this suffering ?
I think we can see from what is happening to some of the ICUs right now that our mitigation efforts of masking, distancing and others in the past most likely prevented a nationwide situation that would have been unacceptable.
Tell us, what course should be taken ? Constant blathering gets us nowhere. Put forth a solution.
Gunter,
I removed the other duplicate post of yours as you requested.
Gunter says: "As of Sep 17, the VAERS data base shows 726,965 adverse reactions to the Covid vaxx, including 15,386 deaths.
What are the real numbers ??? If you took the above old studies seriously and multiplied the VAERS numbers with their factors....unthinkable, huh?
In the meantime, an attorney named Renz collected data from the much larger CMS data base and found that almost 50,000 medicare recipients died within 14 days after vaccination.
metmike: Complete lies from the sheetiest( exact bottom of the barrel), anti COVID vaccine sources on the internet.
Gunter,
You have hit an all time low today with your anti COVID vaccine lies.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75405/#75617
Last updated on September 28th, 2021 at 01:10 pm
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LifeSiteNews
LifeSiteNews (or simply LifeSite) is a Canadian Catholicfar-rightanti-abortion advocacy and news publication. LifeSiteNews has published misleading information and conspiracy theories, and in 2021, was banned from some social media platforms for spreading COVID-19 misinformation.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Health_Defense
"Children's Health Defense is an American activist group mainly known for anti-vaccine activities and has been identified as one of the main sources of misinformation on vaccines
Children's Health Defense is using social media and internet advertising to propagate anti-vaccination messages, targeting young parents and minorities in the United States.[17][22] During the COVID-19 pandemic, those communications attempted to downplay the risk posed by the virus, to argue the new vaccines are dangerous, and to undermine public health authorities. The Center for Countering Digital Hate identifies the group as one of the leaders of the anti-vaccination movement online"
The subject of these recent discussions was suspected “under-reporting:” , when using VAERS data.
so I posted a couple old studies that prove that “under-reporting is indeed going on
You have no comment on them. Are you calling these sources also liars, or do you simply have no response?
Then, as a side note, I mentioned that Att. Renz is claiming that, based on CMS data, some 50k medicare patients have died shortly after being vaccinated.. The link was a questionable site. Because the site was questionable, you claim that this is a lie, and you went overboard, calling me as sinking to new lows, etc. without knowing the facts.
The truth is, this “far-right” side was simply reporting the speech Att Renz gave at a conference… as such, this site was reporting about a factual event that did take place, and one of its speakers. They are not making Renz’ speech up… it did happen.
Yes I know, left-leaning mediabiasfactchecker calls this site “far right” … but this does not mean that everything they report is a lie.In this case, Renz did give this speech on this subject, and this website is telling the truth.
Here is Renz’ website….. addressing the very same issue.
Gunter,
Your evidence continues to be extremely low credibility, far right sources telling lies.....with no real evidence.
Another person or entity telling more lies is not evidence Gunter.
I’m sure that you can find plenty of others telling lies that you want to believe.
It appears that you don’t even care anymore and your objective is to violate integrity standards here to see if you can be banned.
You are actually providing the quintessential example of what happens to a mind that’s been captured by propaganda.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/67714/
Gunter,
Several weeks ago, I promised the forum that I wouldn’t allow you to abuse this place again and have allowed you to go way too far again because of our friendship that you have continuously disrespected with dishonesty in your COVID vaccine posts.
You are clearly getting much worse, not better.
With that being the case, you need to be reigned in because I don’t want to ban or censor you.
I’m thinking that this might have been your mission all along and Am very dissappointed that you took advantage of me, working to sabatoge the sincere efforts to help save lives and provide honest science and truth here.
I won’t censor Posts with blatant lies about the COVID vaccine because I want people to see what the lie is....identify it. But after you make a post like that, you will sit in the penalty box for 24 hours.
Of course, like tonight you will defend the lies from near 0 credibility sources with lies from other near 0 credibility sources. This is what made me realize you are escalating and only moderator intervention can reverse it back to acceptable.
This is also to help you too because your reactions to our discussions to this point have been completely counterproductive.
When I show authentic science and data, you react instinctively by going in the exact opposite direction..........searching for exceptions and use cherry picked examples of outliers of data and sources. Recently, escalating to bigger whoppers as the reaction by some Americans to having to get vaccinated based on science to save lives is to fight it vehemently(instead of wanting to help save lives) because it’s been falsely portrayed as the start of a regime that will lead to more and more losses in rights/freedoms.
None of us has the right to expose others to our disease or to steal their intelligence with propaganda.
We all have a right to know the truth.....which MarketForum will always defend and a right to good health that is not sabotaged by selfish Americans deluding themselves about what it means to be a patriotic American/human being.
If you can’t follow those basic standards of decency and honesty, than you need to reconfigure your understanding of what’s right and what’s wrong.
And I’m very happy to play a role to help others do that by setting a good example here.
Here’s sincerely hoping that you choose to cooperate and join me in making the world a better, healthier and more honest place, not opposing this objective!
If you need more clarification, let me know. You are free to post all the COVID stuff you want but you just can’t post lies......or DISinformation anymore without sitting out for a day after doing it.
If that doesn’t help you to be more honest, then it will go up to 2 days.
mcfarmer, thank you for your reply.
You asked me to provide solutions, rather than complain… a reasonable demand. However, you are asking the wrong man… I am not a virologist. There are plenty of real scientists in this field, who do have solutions. Unfortunately, the people in charge make sure that their voices are silenced.
Some of us visit red-flagged sites, to learn about views and events not presented by our MSM, but then we are being ridiculed.
Recently I came across a very comprehensive presentation, covering various virus related issues. It seemed to be written by virologists, for virologists. Among the subjects were numerous alternate treatments for the Covid (Ivermectin being just one of them). Should I ever be in need, I most certainly will try to get one of those meds, before they put me on a killer-ventilator.
I was thinking about showing it here, I believe many here are interested in alternate ways to fight this virus.... but then people will probably freak out again, because a) it was posted on one of those “outlier” sites (after it was deleted someplace else), and b) it is not vaccine-friendly.
I am slowly getting to the point of giving up.
******
metmike, I recognize and appreciate your efforts to make this forum a place of open idea exchange.
An interesting comment in one of your posts….
“None of us has the right to expose others to our disease or to steal their intelligence with propaganda”.
“expose others to our disease”
This is common sense. I am sure, all families try to make sure that a sick person does not infect others in the same household. And the same practice should be used nationwide.
However, today this idea is now used as a tool to divide and to create hatred… it has become a “us vs. them” battle cry… the ones “protected” by the vaccine versus the “selfish idiots” who are not vaccinated.
And this is total cr*p. First, what makes them assume that an unvaxxed person is a “carrier”? The large majority of unvaxxed people are doing just fine
Secondly, what makes the vaxxed people assume that they are “protected”, when the vaxx efficacy is down to 39%? Today, 61% of the vaxxed people are just as likely to be carriers as the unvaxxed ones.
“steal their intelligence with propaganda”
My parents grew up in a country where Josef Goebbels was Minister of Propaganda… and I see some similarities here, today.
We have scientists who are pro-vaccine, and there are scientists who warn us about it.
Many people have taken these vaccines without problems… but many others suffer horrible side effects,, and some of them have died.
A huge effort is being made to silence opposing scientists, and delete any negative comments about the vaxx from social media sites. Why???? Does this not make the official comments "propaganda”? IMHO, hiding the truth from us, is not much different than lying.
"Recently I came across a very comprehensive presentation, covering various virus related issues. It seemed to be written by virologists, for virologists. Among the subjects were numerous alternate treatments for the Covid (Ivermectin being just one of them). Should I ever be in need, I most certainly will try to get one of those meds, before they put me on a killer-ventilator.
I was thinking about showing it here, I believe many here are interested in alternate ways to fight this virus.... but then people will probably freak out again, because a) it was posted on one of those “outlier” sites (after it was deleted someplace else), and b) it is not vaccine-friendly.
I am slowly getting to the point of giving up."
metmike: I already posted it 2 different times here Gunter but, other than you finally acknowledging that the vaccine does not alter your DNA(after 7 months of stating it does) you haven't learned anything from the science posted here to obliterate your misinformation.
Best Treatments for COVID!
12 responses |
Started by metmike - Sept. 26, 2021, 9:28 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75440/
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ivermectin/how to get to the truth
By metmike - Sept. 26, 2021, 8:55 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/74636/#75439
Here it is for the 3rd time:
Gunter,
Your entire problem is not that, a few times that you promoted treatments that work, which is good science, it's that you bash the most effective treatment of all with junk science and lies from zero credibility sources.
You blindly anti COVID vaccine, anti Fauci, anti government, anti CDC, anti WHO, anti local health departments.
If you don't understand what elements of your posts were complete crap, then you can post them to find out. Maybe, if its not the blatant lies similar to those above at this thread, I'll just give you another warning. If you post the same complete lies that you did above again from those sources, then I may suspend you for a week.
It's up to you man. I cut you 5 times more slack then anybody in the history of the forum. 200+ anti vaxx posts, with only me showing the actual science and correcting the cherry pick and misinterpretations with authentic science and data.
Your side wants this to be a matter of 2 different political opinions related to the freedom and right to choose whether to be vaccinated.....or not get vaccinated.
1. In order to have that position YOU MUST attack the COVID vaccine because admitting it works..........WOULD MEAN THEY/YOU HAVE NO CASE AGAINST GETTING IT.
Since you have been totally ignoring most of my posts, let me repeat that for you Gunter.
2. In order to defend the right/freedome to not take the vaccine, your side MUST make a case that the vaccine is harmful and it doesn't work. To admit that its relatively safe and greatly protects people would mean that you would have no good reason to not comply in getting vaccinated.
Let me repeat that a 3rd time with different verbiage because this is where your side is so completely messed up.
3. You are doing everything possible, using disinformation and lies to convince people that the vaccine is dangerous and doesn't work because, only then can you justify the choice of not taking it to defend your freedom/rights.
Every time you make another anti COVID vaxx that has the above objective in mind.......using misinformation as you've been doing all year, you will be suspended.
Post all you want on COVID and it doesn't have to agree with me but no more disinformation........and it's based on the opinion of the objective, independent moderator at this forum.......not what you think.
"A huge effort is being made to silence opposing scientists, and delete any negative comments about the vaxx from social media sites. Why????"
I've been an independent, objective scientist for almost 4 decades that has a hobby of investigating and learning about medicine and become an elite fact checker.
The ENTIRE reason, once again Gunter is because its' total bs and is causing thousands of people to die because tens of millions of paranoid, closed minded people like you actually believe there's a conspiracy to hide the REAL facts about COVID.
Then, you use them censoring total propaganda intended to maintain your irrational brainwash as evidence that you must be right. As in: "They wouldn't be doing this unless they were worried about the truth getting out and they have to censor the truth, see, we told you they were trying to hide the truth"
Well, Gunter, I allowed you to post.........as in 200+ times about this in recent months with 0 restraints or censoring.........some of it the disinformation that you claim is being censored and covered up.
I sincerely looked at all your points and ended up rebutting almost all of them with authentic science and data. ...............and I confronted you directly as a scientist.
Had I not done that, you would have been free to push your propaganda and junk science with impunity.
You are the quintessential example OF WHY THEY HAVE TO CENSOR PEOPLE ON THIS TOPIC.
Folks that become obsessed with neurotically posting bad science and dangerous ideas that are actually killing thousands of people.......That's you man.
Like I said earlier this week. I hope that you find the courage, humility, open mindedness and caring for other Americans that have a right to their health and a right to the truth.............to see exactly what you and your side are doing.
At some point in the future, when it becomes obvious to most of you, what damage was done, you will have to answer to yourself and your God for your actions/behavior.
You will always be forgiven but you can't go back in a time machine to undo the damage.
Appreciating that now instead of later will minimize the damage you feel sorry for.
If you don't feel bad about it............then, you are either trapped in a hypnotic brainwash(having your intelligence stolen) or you don't have a well developed conscience.
from GunterK "The subject of these recent discussions was suspected “under-reporting:” , when using VAERS data."
from The Franklin County Observer Sept12 2021
FIRST COVID-19 RELATED DEATH SINCE FEBRUARY
Deb Tibbetts, newly promoted supervising nurse at the health department, announced a COVID-19 update. She said .....She also said she has a couple new hospitalizations and one new death, a gentleman in his 50’s. Later, when asked, she clarified that the person did not die of COVID-19 but COVID-19 was a factor
cutworm : so how does this get reported? I'm thinking Covid death. I know that is only one instance but.....
Southeast Indiana Hospital “At A Breaking Point”: Issue 1107 (constantcontact.com)
“The Vaccine Adverse Event Recording System shows that 5,946 people have died because of the” COVID-19 vaccine.
Evaluating VAERS Data
cutworm,
As somebody that was assisting me greatly in compiling updated stats on COVID, in 2020, I'm sure that you're aware that it can take a couple of weeks for a person that tests positive, to get sick enough to be hospitalized and then, often weeks longer before they die.
I don't know the specific dynamics of your hospital system but locally here, we got tons of people from outside counties that are patients in our hospitals, especially the ICU.
When somebody like that dies..........it doesn't get recorded as a death in the county of the hospital they were in but instead, a death in the county where that person was living before coming to the hospital.
Our Evansville hospitals were rationing health care last month because they were completely full with patients, some were from outside counties.
So Franklin County, that looks like it may have had a lower rate of infection initially than some of the surrounding counties in your area might just have been lucky.
They've had some deaths since then however.
And it also looks like a spike high peak and now your crashing lower(hopefully)
This is Franklin County below.
