https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/11/the_big_truth_election_2020_really_was_rigged.html
Have no time to read this but I feel I know Mollie quite well. Few in the industry are as level headed as she is. She spend her on research and fact checking. So. MM please do not blast me but she is one of the people that need to be heard...just my opinion
Yes, IMHO, Mollie is first-rate.
mcfarm,
The messenger is delivering a totally bogus message because they have their brain captured and want others to share in the blissful ignorance.
This message is complete rubbish and I already proved it several times over dealing with those exact points. It's not my fault that your convenient memory forgets it every time you read lying articles like this that you want to believe.
Now that you have a new captured brain(on the Big Lie) posting here...........we see how it works at echo chambers........its called GROUP THINK.
And the moderator, who uses truth, facts, empirical data along with objectivity and the scientific method realizes that FOX news, that has 82% of their viewers convinced in the Big Lie will outgun me............and I don't give a crap because I don't do this for pay. This is why I do it.
https://www.marketforum.com/about/
If you don't want to learn..........that's your problem. But if you want to send bs messages, of course I will call a spade a spade........that's what honest moderators do. Either that or censor........which I haven't done.
Closed minds recycle old information that they want to believe.
Open minds allow new information in, which is the best way to learn.
Going to your far right sites that are lying to you obviously undoes any good that I can do with the truth with threads like this but the message from MarketForum will be the truth.
mikelindells election tape
11 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Feb. 6, 2021, 8:58 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/65299/
| mike lindells election tape - MarketForum Absolutely correct Mike. The election fraud business is profitable. Trump raised over 200 million in the month following the election while costing the taxpayers over 500 million complying with the demands made. www.marketforum.com |
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72115/
By metmike - March 17, 2021, 1:07 p.m.
Wonderful discussion here:
The truth about voter fraud:
https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Maricopa audit
Started by wglassfo - July 7, 2021, 9:30 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72061/
Arizona recount
5 responses |
Started by metmike - June 3, 2021, 5:34 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70449/
State election officials try to stop election audits
6 responses |
Started by wglassfo - May 26, 2021, 4:22 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70014/
Arizona Election audit. My favorite story so far.
22 responses |
Started by TimNew - May 21, 2021, 7:30 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/69771/
Snake Oil Salesman Mike Lindell
Started by metmike - May 13, 2021, 12:16 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/69324/
mikelindells election tape
11 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Feb. 6, 2021, 8:58 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/65299/
Election Fraud in Ga
29 responses |
Started by TimNew - Dec. 5, 2020, 5:14 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62268/
oh boy! more vote-switching "evidence"
9 responses |
Started by GunterK - Jan. 4, 2021, 10:02 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/63755/
Umm, we have a major problem here: "Trump Pressured GA Secretary of State to 'Find' Votes"
15 responses |
Started by WxFollower - Jan. 3, 2021, 8:28 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/63694/
Chart reading and the Election line chart for Wisconsin/Michigan
16 responses |
Started by rockitck - Dec. 27, 2020, 11:23 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/63393/
is this where we have come to as a country?
17 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 19, 2020, 8:07 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/63002/
forensic analysis of Dominiion software
4 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 15, 2020, 11:02 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62756/
Wisconsin case: Trump side didn't think it was worth calling even a single witness.
2 responses |
Started by WxFollower - Dec. 14, 2020, 3:21 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62730/
Sedition Defined
14 responses |
Started by joj - Dec. 12, 2020, 2:39 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62603/
latest on the election
8 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 12, 2020, 7:46 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62634/
mail in ballots explained again
6 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 13, 2020, 7:40 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62662/
supremes turn back Texas challenge
15 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 11, 2020, 7:31 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62596/
Dominion spokesperson says....
7 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 8, 2020, 8:29 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62426/
Hi Mike
26 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 8, 2020, 12:26 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62389/
Is there a there there
5 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 7, 2020, 4:40 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62373/
the election.... "death by a thousand cuts"
13 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 3, 2020, 1:10 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62128/
more anomolies explained
6 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 6, 2020, 5:18 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62320/
Votes manipulated
22 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 1, 2020, 5:40 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62042/
send all others home and then count the fake ballots?
9 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 3, 2020, 10:35 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62206/
Greetings from Dominion.... all is well
4 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 3, 2020, 11:16 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62142/
Lin Wood Sidney Powell
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 2, 2020, 11:17 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62122/
Fraud or perjury
6 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 2, 2020, 6:58 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62105/
dominion
5 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 2, 2020, 10:45 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62081/
Georgia GOP Election Official Speaks Out
Started by joj - Dec. 2, 2020, 5:13 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62096/
Chris Krebs Speaks Out
12 responses |
Started by joj - Dec. 1, 2020, 7:05 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62024/
Votes manipulated
22 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 1, 2020, 5:40 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62042/
reasons to wonder about the fruad
12 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Nov. 29, 2020, 8:42 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/61936/
Why this election was a fraud
24 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Nov. 26, 2020, 10:21 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/61803/
Re: Re: Capitol Insurrection News
By metmike - Jan. 27, 2021, 9:55 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/64730/#64841
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72115/#72145
Arizona clown show continues
2 responses |
Started by metmike - Aug. 23, 2021, 12:36 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/74108/
Mike Lindell......a complete nut job!
14 responses |
Started by metmike - Aug. 6, 2021, 7:41 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/73263/
I'll just take one BIG lie in this article to prove it's bs conclusively..........AGAIN.
"By video, we fortuitously saw boxes filled with votes pulled out from under tables after the observers were told to go home, in Fulton County, Atlanta (Chapter 10)."
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62268/#62292
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62268/#62317
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62268/#62385
I don't have the time to rebust every lie, every time that you guys read another article telling you the same busted lies over and over.
I'm sure that you will find some absurd reason to not believe the video proven truth above or forget it the next time you read the lie about it.
You didn't want to believe it then and now you forgot completely that this and all the other bs was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be make up stuff to create uncertainty pushed as propaganda by the right.
It's not a matter of believing one source and not the other.
The video evidence showed that this was a complete lie.
And this is a perfect example, just 1 of many dozens that did the same thing........ making unsubstantiated, never proven shist up and repeating it.
Wild Speculating on potential fruad...........but never showing it........EVER!
It just had to be there, the story goes. It just doesn't make sense that Trump could have lost.
11/8 Addition: Actually, he alienated MORE people from the republican party in the fastest time ever in history and lost the Senate as well as the White House because of it.
What makes NO sense is the support he gets from violating the Constitution and annihilating the truth..because he says what you want to hear.
When the long lived AZ recount came out giving Biden an even bigger margin of victory............He proclaimed that it vindicated him and showed that he won!
Trumps insane lies are off the charts but the reason that he can use them all the time is that EVERYBODY at his rallies actually believes whatever comes out of his mouth. 82% of the many of millions of people that watch FOX actually believe it. YOU BELIEVE THEM!!!
If you read the other threads, you will see that I was looking hard for fraud, especially early on.........not accepting anything from either side. I did find tons of blatant fraud. In every case the real fraud came from those ALLEGING that fraud stole the election from Trump.
"I feel I know Mollie quite well. Few in the industry are as level headed as she is. She spend her on research and fact checking. So. MM please do not blast me but she is one of the people that need to be heard...just my opinion"
mcfarm,
After seeing one of her blatant, long ago completely busted lies obliterated from video evidence.........AGAIN in the post above. .............would like your comment on this please, since you started the thread.
Election stolen from Trump
10 responses |
Started by metmike - Nov. 2, 2021, 10:50 a.m.
Christie was one of eight potential 2024 GOP presidential contenders speaking at major Republican confab
LAS VEGAS – Former GOP Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey urged his party to stop looking back to former President Donald Trump’s 2020 election defeat and instead "move on and talk about issues that voters care about."
Christie spoke in a speech to an influential group of Republicans and in an interview with Fox News.
Christie, who ran unsuccessfully for the 2016 GOP presidential nomination, told Fox News he’ll run for the White House again in 2024 if "I think I can win and I think I can make a difference."
Christie was in Las Vegas on Saturday, addressing the annual leadership meeting of the Republican Jewish Coalition (RJC), a major conference of party leaders, activists and mega-donors.
"We can no longer talk about the past and the past elections," the former governor, a supporter of Trump but vocal critic of the former president's litigating of the 2020 election, said to applause.
"No matter where you stand on that issue, it’s over," Christie argued. "Every minute we spend talking about 2020, while we’re wasting time doing that, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are laying ruin to this country. We better focus on that and take our eyes off the rearview mirror and start looking through the windshield again."
Asked about the reception his message received, Christie said, "I thought there was a lot of positive reaction in the audience. I think they understand that the looking backwards part, we lose. We lose if we look backwards. We’ve got to go forwards, we’ve got to move on. We’ve got to move on and talk about issues that voters care about."
"This past Tuesday was the beginning of the new era for the Republican Party," Christie told the crowd.
"Glenn Youngkin did not have a backward-looking campaign and neither did Jack Ciattarelli," Christie emphasized in his interview." If what we’re going to continue to talk about is the 2020 election and grievance politics, I think you got a market test in Virginia and in New Jersey. And that market test was candidates don’t think that’s going to work. And one of those candidates won, and the other candidate came close in a blue state to winning."
Christie stressed "lower taxes and educational choice. That’s what people want to hear" and that Republicans "need to go back to winning suburban voters," which was a key to Youngkin’s victory in Virginia over former Democratic Gov. Terry McAuliffe.
metmike: Dems have so many weak points right now. R's fighting amongst themselves, some standing against the Constitution(of the election results in 2020) and supporting the person who did the most damage to the republican party in its long history.....are blowing their chance to capitalize on the D's huge weaknesses.
Trump is the biggest gift to democrats in history.
He is what fired the D's up to vote for a way over the hill person that stuggles every day in office and couldn't win the nomination in his 2 previous attempts when he was young and sharp.
Anybody but Trump in 2024 should be your battle cry.
metmike: Dems have so many weak points right now. R's fighting amongst themselves, some standing against the Constitution(of the election results in 2020) and supporting the person who did the most damage to the republican party in its long history.....are blowing their chance to capitalize on the D's huge weaknesses.
Trump is the biggest gift to democrats in history.
He is what fired the D's up to vote for a way over the hill person that stuggles every day in office and couldn't win the nomination in his 2 previous attempts when he was young and sharp.
Anybody but Trump in 2024 should be your battle cry.
This charismatic psychopath has cast a spell over the majority of republicans that are in total denial of what he did to their party!
He lost the election by 7 million votes(and the senate to boot)....not from fraud but because so many people hated him that he generated record votes...FOR THE OTHER SIDE..............for a really crappy candidate, that people saw on the ballot box as
NOT Donald J. Trump
Don't let him continue to destroy the party.
Or if you are a dem............pray for him to keep doing what he has been doing and run again in 2024.
In four years, Trump has led the Republican Party from unified control of Washington to the wilderness.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/republicans-lost-everything/617564/
By Monique Beals - 11/07/21
"A Guardian op-edargued on Sunday that President Biden’s best hope for reelection could be former President Trump himself.
In the opinion article, author Michael Cohen predicted that “Trump is likely to remain the gift that keeps on giving for Democrats — the living, breathing bogeyman under the bed who keeps their voters up at night.”
“As much as Democrats may want to run on their legislative agenda, the spectre of Trump could be their most effective strategy for maintaining power and is probably Biden’s best hope for re-election,” he wrote.
Cohen noted that recent polling shows Biden is “deeply unpopular,” citing recent losses for Democrats in Virginia and New Jersey, places where Biden easily beat Trump last year.
In Virginia, former Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) lost the state’s gubernatorial race to Republican businessman Glenn Youngkin.
In New Jersey, Gov. Phil Murphy (D) “barely held on” in his race for reelection, while the Democratic state Senate president was beaten by a truck driver who spent next to nothing on the race.
“In short, this White House has not had a good story to tell for months and in Virginia and New Jersey they paid the price,” Cohen added.
Trump has publicly toyed with the idea of another White House run for months. Meanwhile, Biden’s approval rating hit a new low of just 38 percent in a poll conducted last week."
If Donald Trump runs for president again, he will, one assumes, blot out the sun.\
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/05/12/trump-hurts-gop-populism-487803
https://news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-supporters-baffled-divided-133050856.html
Former President Donald Trump's supporters are divided over his comments that Republicans will not vote in the 2022 or 2024 elections unless the Republican Party backs his election fraud claims.
"If we don't solve the Presidential Election Fraud of 2020 (which we have thoroughly and conclusively documented), Republicans will not be voting in '22 or '24," Trump said in a statement emailed to his supporters on Wednesday.
"It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do," he said.
Since leaving office in January, Trump has continued to hype the baseless claim that the 2020 election was rigged in Joe Biden's favor.
In several pro-Trump and QAnon Telegram channels, MAGA supporters have been arguing over whether to follow his advice.
"Donald Trump is doing everything he can to hurt Republican chances in 2022," an account called Trump Supporters wrote on Telegram.
"Donald Trump is, ostensibly, a Republican. But he has shown time and again -- both in the White House and now out of it -- that he cares little about helping the party and its other candidates," they said.
According to Newsweek, another Telegram user wrote, "But what happens if we don't vote? Does the evil cabal remain in power forever? Do they just appoint more of the same?? What???"
"Not voting is not just what Marxists want, It's also stupid no matter how rigged the system is," another user wrote, according to the outlet.
However, other users rushed to his defense, agreeing with Trump's stance to put pressure on the Republican Party.
"We shouldn't vote until the election process is run correctly. Just be wasting our time for another farce!" one user wrote.
"Why waste the effort for something that is against us. Shake the RNC at its core, voters will not cast votes for them," another Telegram user said.
Cas Mudde, a professor of international affairs at the University of Georgia recently told Insider that Trump's threat is "mostly a power play."
"He wants to remain at the center of GOP politics and prevent the party from moving on without him," Mudde said.
Read the original article on Business Insider
Love him or hate him - Donald Trump owns the Republican Party at this time. Who does he represent? The working people of this country who are sick of the corrupt Democrats and the corrupt establishment Republicans. There is a reason why the two groups are linked together under the name "The Uniparty."
Remember - corruption is not so much a feature of the system - corruption IS THE SYSTEM.
"Business insider" is - and always has been, I think - completely anti-Trump. It is establishment. The political establishment in Washington has always hated Trump.
As for elections - again - dip your finger in the ink . . .
Until we do at least the equivalent of that, we don't have a chance of transparent honest elections.
cfdr,
You totally ignored this:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77329/#77342
You claim corruption is the system but support the most corrupt, damaging person in history because you are so fixated on him presenting himself as a warrior and victim fighting the part of the system that you hate and want defeated which is causing to be totally oblivious to his blatant corruption being an order or magnitude GREATER than what you are fighting against.
You are willing to lower your usually high standards to absolute rock bottom so that you can justify supporting a diabolical person......using cognitive bias/denial because of your fixation on defeating the deep state............while objective thinkers that also see/agree on the deep state..........see Trump MUCH WORSE because the reality is that HE STRONGLY UNIFIES THE DEEP STATE AND PROGRESSIVES.
You are handing the other side their best gift in history.
Trump is the person that you want to represent you value system. That in itself has you going in the wrong direction fast.............whatever you hope to achieve.
But he is obliterating your dream even faster by weakening the unity and strength of your side.
see Trump MUCH WORSE because the reality is that HE STRONGLY UNIFIES THE DEEP STATE AND PROGRESSIVES.
Interesting statement. Why do you suppose this is true?
Also, I agree that a lot of the conspiracy theories surrounding the election have been debunked, but a lot of the results from the Fulton and Maricopa county auduts have not.
Tim,
His supporters continue to wrongly insist that he unites the left entirely because of what he represents but totally overlook the biggest reason............that's uniting the anti Trump REPUBLICANS now too.
Larry hates his guts with a passion and he's been a moderate conservative for decades.
But Larry is not at all an exception.
This was back in 2016 BEFORE he alienated even MORE republicans because of the Big Lie (his own party, people that are needed for their party to win)
Now look how bad it's gotten here in 2021 BECAUSE OF TRUMP...........entirely:
With regards to the AZ election results, it vastly confirmed the main objective of doing the audit. Nobody anywhere thinks that all the results everywhere did not have fraud........as has been the case before.
You can cherry pick and say........."lookey here, there was fraud in X county GA and Y county AZ and Z county MI. This proves some fraud and where there's smoke, their must be fire.........and more fraud.
No it doesn't. It proves the complete opposite or else we would be seeing significant fraud in A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L,M counties in those states..........and that didn't happen.
Pleast don't speculate that it could have happened but we just didn't have the right kind of audits because this was, by far the most scrutinized,. investigated and audited election in history by a very wide margin and it showed that NOT to be the case.
Which is what makes The Big Lie look more like The Big Lie!
Despite that stone cold reality. This is the main item which gives dems a fighting chance the next 3 years.
You claim corruption is the system but support the most corrupt, damaging person in history because you are so fixated on him presenting himself as a warrior and victim fighting the part of the system that you hate and want defeated which is causing to be totally oblivious to his blatant corruption being an order or magnitude GREATER than what you are fighting against
I've said this to liberal friends, and I'll repeat it here.
Never before in history has so much money and so much effort been spent to dig up dirt on one man - with so few results.
They are still working on it however, so maybe they will come up with something. If they do, how do you think it will rate on a scale of zero to Joe and Hunter Biden? Or on a scale of zero to Bill and Hilary Clinton?
Yes, Donald Trump has some big ugly warts on his nose. Some people can't ever get past that. I understand. But he, IMHO, was working FOR the best interests of this country. I certainly cannot say that about whoever it is who is running the country now.
Trump is the person that you want to represent you value system. That in itself has you going in the wrong direction fast.............whatever you hope to achieve.
But he is obliterating your dream even faster by weakening the unity and strength of your side.
Not true. Personally I think the movement would be better off with DeSantis running - from a purely political view. He doesn't have those big ugly warts on his nose. But Donald Trump came along and did the impossible - he took the people neither party wanted - working people - and stole the Republican Party and enough of the Democrat Party and beat them both. As for his NY personality, like my wife says - it's a package deal.
But, again:
support the most corrupt, damaging person in history
No, that would be someone else. I used to think we could have no worse president than W. Then Obama came along. He has to be, again IMHO, the most corrupt, damaging person in history - at least in my lifetime. I thought Joe Biden had taken the crown away, but after thinking about it for awhile, I decided - no, it is Obama who is really behind what appears to be the destruction of this country.
Actually, I think that is not quite right. Obama is, self admittedly, lazy. He was, and is, a front man. It is the people behind him who are the real evil.
cfdr,
We are just repeating the same things and will get nowhere and this includes you continuing to ignore commenting on this post, which is one based on universal facts that can't be disputed or explained any other way except with the truth.
When 2 people disagree on something.........authentic facts using empirical data/evidence should always be interjected to clear up the disagreement. Do you agree?
Should I just assume that you don't want to comment and prefer to rely on opinions?
cfdr,
You totally ignored this:
Mike, if that was a lie, as it very might well have been, it doesn't make all of the problems go away. Because you prove one thing wrong doesn't mean there aren't serious problems. I do have a problem with many of your sources. I see it as having a lack of facts that both of us can use to sort everything out.
All I want is to have supervised audits where we can arrive at mutually agreed on facts to discuss.
Why is that such an unreasonable request?
There were supposedly thousands of affidavits filed. What is happening? Where the hell is the FBI? (Ok, I know the answer to that one . . . ).
But, again, what is the problem with supervised public audits? The more that these are suppressed, the more suspicion there is. Is there anything more important than this? Why the massive resistance?
It shows that your so called reliable source is pushing blatant lies.
It's not isolated..........empirical data/fact provable lies totally DEFINE the position. That is the point.
I went thru this already for 9 months with others here(and it slowed down as they were shown the authentic facts) and am not going to keep doing it every time people forget the lessons or somebody new didn't get the lessons.
You can review the dozens of other threads to see other lies exposed........if you want.
You can be like everybody else and continue to believe in your sources and not believe anything from contradicting sources but still be a wonderful person in every other realm.
This is nothing personal.
This is nothing personal.
Agree.
But, this still leaves my questions - why is it that we cannot have a supervised and transparent audit to satisfy voters who are skeptical that they are wrong?
If you believe Trump is not only wrong - but destructive - with his claims, why not once and for all show it to actually be the case? What better way to shut the man up - if, indeed you believe this to be the case?
The reality is that all this resistance to being transparent is feeding what you hate.
Sorry, but I, like many others, have to conclude that there is a reason for the refusal to give transparency to such an important part of our democracy.
And, to voters - if you want to vote, dip your finger in the ink.
But, this still leaves my questions - why is it that we cannot have a supervised and transparent audit to satisfy voters who are skeptical that they are wrong?
If you believe Trump is not only wrong - but destructive - with his claims, why not once and for all show it to actually be the case? What better way to shut the man up - if, indeed you believe this to be the case?
Guess you really ARE late to the party cfdr and didn't read the accounts at these threads above, which I will copy AGAIN below. This WAS supposed to the THE REAL DEAL audit in Arizona. Your side, for months and months touted it as such over and over......until the results came out and then, all of a sudden, it wasn't anymore.
And Trump told us that it showed that he won.
You brought this up, not me. I'm just showing you the evidence........AGAIN.
If the one in Arizona wasn't good enough by a crystal clearly right biased entity(after it was touted to be good enough) then, the only audit that your side will accept is one that shows Trump got robbed.
That can never happen because Biden clearly won by every reasonable audit and investigation and he only lost by wild speculation about what keeps hiding from everybody looking and loony accusations of a magical mystery cover up that includes sneak algorithms that nobody can figure out from Dominion and interference from China to machines that were not even hooked up to the internet.....by a delusional Mike Lindell especially(being followed by millions)
There are so many individual absurd elements that, if just one was being purported would be crazy but you guys are throwing the entire kitchen sink of loony tunes and repeating it over and over...............even when the legit facts and authentic empirical data show its all dead wrong over and over.
Again, like I said earlier, this is nothing personal but I feel really embarrased for people that are my friends, like you when I discuss the truth with them.......which AS A FRIEND, I feel obligated to do.
Arizona Election audit. My favorite story so far.
22 responses |
Started by TimNew - May 21, 2021, 7:30 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/69771/
State election officials try to stop election audits
6 responses |
Started by wglassfo - May 26, 2021, 4:22 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70014/
Arizona recount
5 responses |
Started by metmike - June 3, 2021, 5:34 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70449/
Maricopa audit
Started by wglassfo - July 7, 2021, 9:30 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72061/
Arizona clown show continues
2 responses |
Started by metmike - Aug. 23, 2021, 12:36 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/74108/
cfdr,
These conversations that we are having now, I already had with numerous people here earlier this year over and over and over.
I was actually in the skeptical crowd in the beginning too but the stone cold hard facts led me to truth.
You will note the several dozen threads, of which, in this thread, I've brought out the ones that pertained to specific items that you are trying to make a case on.
You obviously did not read ALL the previous threads or have just decided to filter out anything that contradicts what you want to believe. That's ok. I post them for people that want to read and get something out of them.
You have no case cfdr other than your far right sites making stuff up and repeating it. I can bust ALL of it every time until eternity but it obviously does no good with mcfarm chiming in to start this thread with some long ago busted bs...........again.
One of the most important rights that we all have is a right to know the truth.
Ironically, the sites that you cherish are denying you that most basic right by feeding you lies and propaganda for their self serving political and sometimes financial/traffic driven motives on this topic.
You're a very intelligent man that also greatly cherishes his cerebral functions. How would it feel to know that you're letting your trusted sources "steal your intelligence"?
I'm just your objective, independent scientist friend trying to enlighten you using empirical data/observations/evidence at some obscure site that doesn't generate massive traffic because its not an echo chamber that sucks in people who come to read the news they like to read.
Still..............I'm glad to see you back.
And I think you are willfully blind when it comes to what we should expect from human nature. (g)
You might remember my two rules for government when it comes to the economy. Rule number two is to ensure accountability at every level. Without accountability, nothing works. And, equally as important, without the perception of accountability, the system does not work. Simple proof? What we see right now.
As for proof, the one example you gave sure appears to be valid. But, one example does not make all questions go away, of course. It looks to me like most all of your replies are linked to sites that I know to be extreme in their anti-Trump views. That doesn't help at all. Mail-in ballots were used big time in that election. Without accountability, how can we possibly have faith in the integrity of the results? Why do almost every country in Europe avoid this? Why did Amazon refuse to allow this in the unionization vote? But, I'm repeating myself. I might have to go back through and take another more detailed look - but my mind refuses to do that, it seems.
I can say it again and again, but we need the PERCEPTION of honesty in elections. Equally as much as the honesty itself. WHY IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK? Why is that so much of a fight? We know that open borders is purely political on the Democratic side - they have actually said this was a major purpose. They are breaking the law to ensure that in the near future they will not lose elections. Why would we possibly think that they would have any scruples about breaking the law during an election? Why shouldn't we expect it??
Accountability. Nothing works without it. And if you are sure that you are right, you should be fighting for this. What better way to put the hated Donald Trump in his place by embarrassing him in front of the world.
You would agree with me on that, wouldn't you?
"What better way to put the hated Donald Trump in his place by embarrassing him in front of the world. You would agree with me on that, wouldn't you?"
I not only disagree as strongly as possible but it just reinforces that you don't understand where I'm coming from........on Trump.
That portrays Trump as a victim and ignores EVERY legit fact and all the data regarding the election that I just showed you ........again.
Donald Trump is an extremely dangerous psychopath and what makes him so dangerous, like all cult leaders is his ability to use his powerful charisma to hypnotize people and capture their brains with lies that they like to hear.
He has violently rejected the Constitution like no other person in history and has recruited tens of millions of patriotic but gullible Americans to reject the Constitution and has them believing in a completely debunked stolen election narrative.
He is ripping the Republican party apart.........those who are honest and ethical and see thru him, taking a stand against the pathological liar.
He is the most uncivil politician in history, even viciously attacking those in his own party that don't support him.
I've never known a human being that has more hate and creates more hate in my lifetime..........by an extraordinary wide margin.
Since I'm running a site trying to provide love, honesty, integrity authentic science, learning and respectful communicating with each other here, Donald Trump's personal traits and off the charts character flaws are the ANTI metmike nightmare.
Oh, but he does have some good for America policies on energy and the southern border for instance.
As he led during his presidency and his negatives grew exponentially, before he was defeated by 7 million votes, I had already decided his negatives were actually outweighing his positives towards the end. And you know my view on climate change.
After the election, something really snapped in his head and he has turned truly diabolical and evil. Trying to overthrow the election was bad enough but the intelligence he's stolen from tens of millions of people's minds and hatred that he has generated.........is never ending wherever he goes.
You can keep portraying him as the victim and this sort of super hero of freedom fighting for what you believe in but my fight relates to real people in this world that deserve respect and to be told the truth..........which is a fundamental right of every human being....knowing the objective truth.
To Trump, people are just pieces of crap........... for him to manipulate to a place that maximizes his mental illness/neurotic need to be the most powerful person in the world.
Did that answer your question clear enough cfdr?
BTW, I voted for Trump in 2016 based on his good for America policies but was willing to adjust my politics based on the facts..........of Donald Trump's behavior.
One of the craziest things is that some of the ones that he's done the most damage too......the republicans are the ones that worship him the most.
They are this psychopathic con mans target!
He has cost the republican party more than any one person in history.........but is adored by 82% of people that watch FOX news, for instance that believe the election was stolen from him.
FOX is totally motivated by ratings. I was a main weather anchor on WEHT for 11 years. Ratings mean everything. We were told that almost every month. Our job security and salaries totally depended on ratings.
Supporting Trump on FOX causes block buster ratings for them.
This just leads to other reinforcing sources of The Big Lie.
And their viewers are all having their intelligence stolen by their charismatic anchors telling them the news the way they want to hear it.........instead of the truth.
That my friend is how you increase ratings.
People will flock to stations that tell them the news the way they like to hear it and avoid stations that tell them things they don't like/want to hear like the plague.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/76955/
Many republicans think these sources and Trump are telling them secrets that are being covered up by the MSM but the problem is that they can't tell when its the truth ...............which is some of the time and when they are lying ............which is also some of the time.
They just believe..........ALL OF IT.
Neither party has a franchise on the truth and if people just believe one side all the time.........they will believe in lies some of the time.
Sorry that we disagree on Trump and the COVID vaccine so much but our views on MANY other things are strongly aligned.
I softened up the last 2 posts to try to minimize any implied personal attacks which might have been present initially and apologize for that.
Seeing Trump targeting some of my friends bothers me a great deal.
And hopefully you aren't the kind of person that wants only friends that agree with all their politics.
It's actually sad in this country that political differences are profoundly dividing us and I certainly have friends that believe exactly like you do on these 2 issues.
My sister Patti, in fact is anti COVID vax and insists the election was stolen from Trump.
We've had some interesting email discussions but never personal attacks.
Her show is sort of like the FOX news of North Dakota. No doubt you would love it to pieces.
That's her on the far left......physical far left that is(-:
https://www.bek.news/ladiesofanotherview
If the one in Arizona wasn't good enough by a crystal clearly right biased entity(after it was touted to be good enough) then, the only audit that your side will accept is one that shows Trump got robbed.
The Arizona audit was good enough. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the results before you make a statement like the above. And don't rely on the whitewashed version pushed by the MSM. Read the actual report, or at least watch the 3 hour video presenting the results.
I note that you are not presenting those here Tim. Would you care to enlighten us please.
I see that we already had this discussion after those details were released but maybe you have something to add to it right now.
I'm grateful to you for bringing this up because I forgot to add that long discussion to those/the links above. Here it is.
Results of long-running Cyber Ninjas putative audit of 2020 election
23 responses |
Started by metmike - Sept. 24, 2021, 11:28 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75326/
That portrays Trump as a victim and ignores EVERY legit fact and all the data regarding the election that I just showed you ........again.
Almost everything I have seen as quotes from you are from sources that are extremely poor - to say the least. We have not yet been able to see the data that we need to make a determination. I have little doubt that we will ever see that data. If you were curious enough to see the data showing DOJ/FBI corruption, you have a good idea about what happened. But this is not the case with the election.
Why do you think that is the case? (Don't bother answering because I know you don't think that is the case.)
He has violently rejected the Constitution like no other person in history
What exactly did he do? Did he fail to enforce the laws on the border and thus hurt a great many working citizens? Did he mandate that people get chemicals injected into their bodies or lose everything? Did he shut down energy production in this country making us vulnerable again? I could go on, but these are enough examples of a president, rather than protecting the citizens, doing everything he can to to destroy the country they live in.
He is ripping the Republican party apart.........those who are honest and ethical and see thru him, taking a stand against the pathological liar.
That corrupt party needed to be ripped apart - it was comfortably entrenched within the Uniparty with the one goal of enriching itself. Do "those who are honest and ethical" include Mitch McConnell? Lindsey Graham? Do you know how foolish you sound here, Mike?
He is the most uncivil politician in history
Ha! I might give you that one. BUT THAT'S WHAT IT TOOK TO SHAKE THINGS UP! It's a package deal, like my wife says. He is the only man who could have done what he did. Look at where we were heading prior to Trump. Aggressively sending jobs overseas so that the politicians could get their cut of the money. Every president seemed to feel that to appease the MIC they needed to start new wars overseas. Think back to what Trump's USA was like - prior to having COVID unleashed on the world. You have a short memory, Mike.
I've never known a human being that has more hate and creates more hate in my lifetime
Yes, he pissed off a lot of people - powerful "important" people. But who was it that really got the racial divisions going? Those divisions that today have been amplified - probably by the same man who was president prior to Trump? Will we ever be able to heal those? Read authors like Shelby Steele - or particularly Thomas Sowell.
Mike - please get the facts before you make conclusions.
To Trump, people are just pieces of crap
No, he felt comfortable with working people, even if he was extremely wealthy. Unlike Hilary and Obama and the like. If you want to look at who thinks people are just "pieces of crap" - look at the people who are running the country RIGHT NOW. They are ideologues. Tucker covered this pretty well last night. They only care about the "shiny new world they are creating." It doesn't matter who gets crushed in getting to that.
Did that answer your question clear enough cfdr?
Yes, I'm afraid to have to say that it did, Mike.
Thanks cfdr,
I understand all of your points clearly.
I disagree with all of them but understand why you believe it. Thanks.
No sense in me repeating the same things above over again. Your trusted sources are the only ones that you believe and nothing that contradicts them or contradicts what you believe is to be contemplated.
But that’s cool. Everyone has a right to believe what they want.
This was already posted here.
None of the various systems related to elections had numbers that would balance and agree with each other. In some cases, these differences were significant.
• There appears to be many 27, 807 ballots cast from individuals who had moved prior to the election.
• Files were missing from the Election Management System (EMS) Server.
• Ballot images 284,412 on the EMS were corrupt or missing.
• Logs appeared to be intentionally rolled over, and all the data in the database related to the 2020 General Election had been fully cleared.
• On the ballot side, batches were not always clearly delineated, duplicated ballots were missing the required serial numbers, originals were duplicated more than once, and the Auditors were never provided Chain-ofCustody documentation for the ballots for the time-period prior to the ballot’s movement into the Auditors’ care. This all increased the complexity and difficulty in properly auditing the results; and added ambiguity into the final conclusions.
• Maricopa County failed to follow basic cyber security best practices and guidelines from CISA © 2021 Cyber Ninjas Page 2 of 4
• Software and patch protocols were not followed
• Credential management was flawed: unique usernames and passwords were not allocated
• Lack of baseline for host and network activity for approved programs, communications protocols and communications devices for voting systems
This was not, to my knowledge.
Yes, thanks. I just am having a hard time getting my OC mind to go back and look. (g)
Again, I BELIEVE that there were a very significant number of things that need to be examined so that all of the people who are disillusioned are satisfied that - yes, the election was valid. The PERCEPTION is critical to this country.
Correct, that was posted and discussed previously.
With regards to a 3+ hour video, I don't have time to spend watching it.
You are welcome to chime in on the video, if it states anything that is not already stated.
With regards to the previous points.
Let me add the proper perspective.
This audit was performed for 1 reason. Republicans insisted there was widespread fraud in the election which was used to enable Biden to steal the election. There are various degrees of the insistence of this, but half of R's believe there was enough widespread cheating to completely change the outcome.
Tim does not go that far, mcfarm and cfdr do.
Regardless, AZ is one of the states which R's insist was stolen from them. The county with the largest population, Maricopa, was specifically picked to use this strongly right biased team of underqualified people to PROVE ELECTION FRAUD altered the election results in AZ.
After many months of their audit, with numerous problems and delays, they came back with a result on the fraud issue................no votes confirmed from the widespread fraud and in fact, they adjusted the vote count to a bigger win for Biden by a small amount.
Total confirmation that the election in this county was, free, honest and secure and we should be confident in the results.
But the republicans then, twist things like a pretzel so they don't have to accept those conclusive results based on why THEY wanted this audit....which now, suddenly changes.
Trump, proves even more where he's coming from by claiming the results confirmed that he won..............and many of his people believe it!
With the others, it suddenly morphs into something different.....speculation based on the so called flaws that this firm said were a problem that:
Absurdly, NOW, supposedly what they were really saying this audit was all about from the start....... that elections are badly run and this COULD lead to fraud in the future(even though there was no fraud this time). This supposedly was not about finding real fraud in this case but was to do an objective audit to learn how to have better elections, so that, in the future there is less chance/potential for fraud........yeah, right.
This would be like a football game score of 56-0 against your team and the losing team stating........"We didn't lose. It never was about the score and this should not go on our record for 2021 as a loss because we were playing to give our players experience for next year"
Their season to date record has no wins but they claim to be undefeated based on "moving the goal posts" to define a win as whatever they need to make up to get it.
And their far right sports commentators publish stories to convince their delusional fans(who get 100% of their sports news from them) that its all true.
Some of the so called huge problems identified are items that they state which might or might not be true but if they are don't involve fraud. Like this one: "There appears to be as many as 27, 807 ballots cast from individuals who had moved prior to the election."
There's no indication that this led to even 1 fraudulent vote by a person trying to vote twice using 2 different addresses. People who MIGHT HAVE moved, didn't update their address, most still living in the same county and voted 1 time with the previous address. No attempts to trick or get away with fraud, or voting more than 1 time. just convenience and lack of updating by the individual. But it is good to have everybody's latest address and they should try to do that.
You can wildly speculate that maybe some people registered to vote in some other county or state and voted there and in this county too. That would not be an organized or systemic fraud issue then, would it because it would just be individuals, independent of each other that moved deciding to do that on there own.
However, there was not 1 incident of fraud, let along a charge or conviction, like we've seen in the past with legit, provable fraud in elections..............that happens when you have real fraud.
Re: Re: Mike, this is exactly what you talk about.
By metmike - June 30, 2021, 3:23 p.m.
"The most ironic thing is that I was able to find 10 times more fraud in previously elections, than everybody else combined in this election..............
All because I used legit sources and one side has been gullible here, since the election allegation scheme has perpetrated fraud on some good people who believe it because they want to believe it."
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/71813/#71816
And cfdr, I didn't use MSM sources that you reject completely to come to that understanding.
As usual, I used empirical DATA, facts/evidence and information and applied objective critical thinking/analysis and came TO MY OWN CONCLUSIONS.
cfdr,
AFTER coming to that independent conclusion ON MY OWN, only then did I find a source that accurately states the facts based on that.
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND(letting the source tell me what to think)
You can reject this source because its not far right but please, stop rejecting the entire position..............only because you find any opinion from the left means it must be the complete opposite of what they are stating.
Pretend you didn't read this and only comment on the previous page then.
https://tcf.org/content/commentary/truth-behind-results-maricopa-county-election-audit/?session=1
After many months of their audit, with numerous problems and delays, they came back with a result on the fraud issue................no votes confirmed from the widespread fraud and in fact, they adjusted the vote count to a bigger win for Biden by a small amount.
Total confirmation that the election in this county was, free, honest and secure and we should be confident in the results.
You continue to stick with the whitewashed MSM headlines and ignore the meat of the findings of this, as well as the Fulton County audits.
While they have not proven widespread coordinated fraud, they have raised valid questions about the integrity of the results and the massive vulnerabilities of the existing process in these two counties. Thousands of duplicate votes. Thousands of invalid votes. Thousands of problems.
Your continued use of phrases like "Total confirmation that the election in this county was, free, honest and secure and we should be confident in the results" simply does not apply. You are not basing it on the facts in evidence.
"You continue to stick with the whitewashed MSM headlines"
Tim, This message in the previous thread, restated below was meant for cfdr because I didn't realize your thought process was distorted by bias as bad as his but obviously, you completely ignored it. If after reading that your response is that of above............no need to continue the discussion. According to you, metmike's non MSM analysis is corrupted by the MSM headlines that metmike didn't read until after he did his independent, objective analysis and even made that clear.
Great way to discard authentic data, facts and evidence every single time and always convince yourself that your sources are right..........."It came from the corrupt MSM, so it can never be trusted...........even when it didn't"
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77329/#77520
"cfdr,
AFTER coming to that independent conclusion ON MY OWN, only then did I find a source that accurately states the facts based on that.
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND(letting the source tell me what to think)
You can reject this source because its not far right but please, stop rejecting the entire position..............only because you find any opinion from the left means it must be the complete opposite of what they are stating.
Pretend you didn't read this and only comment on the previous page then."
It just dawned on me that using anything but far right sources here, even if they are based entirely on solid data and information has the entirely opposite affect.
It causes many people to believe the complete opposite of what the sources say because the extreme tribalism has permeated so deeply that people don't even consider the objective facts or data/evidence and apply critical thinking much more anymore.
They let their preconceived notions and the sources that they go to in order to reinforce them be all the evidence they need.
I haven't had the time to finish this thread but its intended to be all about that serious topic which is the main source that's dividing our country right now(not Russians under the bed):
So, altho you "didn't have time" to watch the video, which gave explicit detail on the method and the findings , you are accusing me, and anyone who disagrees with you of having distorted minds.
You are dismissing the findings of the Maricopa and Fulton County Audits because.... They don't line up with your preconcieved notion and you won't bother to take the time to look at any of the findings.. because you've already made up your mind.. From "Reliable Sources". And anyone who does not agree with you has a "Distorted Mind".
Oh wait, you accept the results of the Maricopa audit when they said the machine counts of ballots were close to accurate, What you reject is that fact that 10's of thousands of those ballots were invalid. And of course you would :-) .
Because, repeat after me 'WE HAD THE MOST FAIR AND SECURE ELECTION IN HISTORY!!!" and anyone who disagrees not only has a distorted mind, but is an enemy of the state, right?
A few weeks ago, I said I was done with the election debate with you.
Thanks for the dramatic reminder as to why.
"You are dismissing the findings of the Maricopa and Fulton County Audits because.... They don't line up with your preconcieved notion and you won't bother to take the time to look at any of the findings.. because you've already made up your mind."
OK, I also watched the 3+ hour video this morning (instead of the 30 minutes scanning thru it from before and still found zero fraud.
Please get back to me when you can provide some actual fraud evidence Tim. instead of insisting that my totally non MSM analysis from seeing everything there is to see(unless you have something else) is the result of "You continue to stick with the whitewashed MSM headlines"
I still agree that we need to do everything possible to improve election dynamics but the entire issue with the 2020 election from the get go until now has focused on allegations of widespread fraud.
There were more audits, recounts, investigations and legal challenges in history(strangely just in the 6 states that Trump wanted to win but none in the other 44 states). Since the alleged fraud DID NOT SHOW UP anywhere, this proved with more confidence than in any other election in history.........by an extremely wide margin...that we can trust the results of this election.
Suddenly moving the goal posts to a position of "widespread election fraud is not the metric to measure by/important or even any election fraud...........what we were really looking for was what they found in Maricopa County........so we told you so"
That position was created AFTER they found no fraud and it doesn't change the fact.........they found no fraud and even gave Biden a few more votes.
Please don't repeat another mischaracterization of my position either. EVERYTHING matters to me, including the non fraud issues they found.
Here is yet another reminder.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/71813/#71816
I'll just start repeating myself until you actually read what I post.
While they have not proven widespread coordinated fraud, they have raised valid questions about the integrity of the results and the massive vulnerabilities of the existing process in these two counties. Thousands of duplicate votes. Thousands of invalid votes. Thousands of problems.
Your continued use of phrases like "Total confirmation that the election in this county was, free, honest and secure and we should be confident in the results" simply does not apply. You are not basing it on the facts in evidence.
I will add that there is only one side that is not only opposed to these audits, but also opposed to things that would lessen the chances of fraud. Like voter id's etc. They really like the idea of ballot harvesting and mass ballot maiings. Certainly not proof of anything, but how many reasons can you come up with to justify it?
I will add that there is only one side that is not only opposed to these audits, but also opposed to things that would lessen the chances of fraud. Like voter id's etc. They really like the idea of ballot harvesting and mass ballot maiings. Certainly not proof of anything, but how many reasons can you come up with to justify it?
I'm just posting this reply because I feel that the above quote from Tim should be read twice by everyone.
Reading what someone says from NPR, or from CNN, or from the NYT, or from WaPo, or from any of the mainstream media does not constitute facts. Just because someone at publicdemocracyamerica or at The Century Foundation says it does not mean that we are reading facts.
There will never be an agreement about how the last election came out without a full and transparent audit of the votes - because we cannot ever have "facts" unless that happens. Election fraud has been common around the world for a very long time. Human In order to have the perception of a fair election - something probably as important as a fair election - there is no other option than this.
You guys repeating the same thing over and over and over still doesn't show any fraud that contributed in any way to the outcome.
Falsely accusing me of basing my opinion on MSM talking points and saying it over and over and over is still bs.
These are facts below and me repeating them to you guys seems to make no difference.
You decided what to think a long time ago and facts/data will never change it.
When someone votes twice, that is fraud. We have thousands of documented examples. When a dead person votes, that's fraud. We have documented examples of that as well. When someone moves and does not update their registration, that vote should not count, but that is not fraud.. Unless it is knowingly included in the talley
We have tons of proof of fraud. There is NO question that there was fraud. What we don't have is proof of a coordinated effort to perpetrate fraud. That would require information nearly impossible to obtain. But that we have almost unanamous opposition to measures to make fraud more difficult from one side, and one side only. This proves nothing, but is very suspicious.
Yes, of course there WAS SOME fraud in this election and I found tons of it in previous elections. I SHOWED IT TO YOU! There will always be fraud, I've always agreed on that.
Every person in the US didn't suddenly turn honest in 2020.
This is NOT what the discussion is about, unless you want to morph it into being about isolated fraud and of course I agree with that.
This audit for that particular county was about Biden cheating and the election being stolen from Trump.............stop denying that please.
My statement was not complete because I was trying to do several things at one but I finished it for you:
"You guys repeating the same thing over and over and over still doesn't show any fraud that contributed in any way to the outcome."
"What we don't have is proof of a coordinated effort to perpetrate fraud. That would require information nearly impossible to obtain."
Isolated fraud is easy to catch, but widespread systemic fraud is impossible to discover?
Next time I do a weather forecast, I'll tell people to be prepared for the isolated snow showers but don't worry about the 12 inch blizzard because something that big/widespread is almost impossible to detect (-:
There is lots of suspicious activity. Probable cause is good enough to justify further review, but it's not proof.
What would constitute proof would take more than results that seemed one sided. That just adds to suspicion
What you'd need to prove a conspiracy, a coordinated effort, is a stream of communication, either recorded or written. That is nearly impossible provided minimal efforts are made to be covert.
What these audits have shown is how easily our election system can be abused. How they were abused. The reaction to it is tightening of security by the right. The left has done everything they can to obstruct those efforts. Why? Shouldn't they be just as invested in secure and valid election results? The bedrock of our form of government?
And can you honestly say that had there been no fraud, the states with the razor thin margins for Biden would not have turned out differently? Based on the results of the audits, you can't.
I don't think we're too far apart on this MM. What I can't accept is your continued insistence that the election was honest and secure. In the 2 counties with in depth audits, that was shown to be anything but the truth.
Do I think Biden somehow coordinated an elaborate scheme to steal the election? That's laughable. The man appears barely capable of tying his shoes.
Do I think it's possible someone could have? Yes. Given the current state of our elections, I think it's entirely possible.
And that's why I fully support reforms leading to unquestionable election integrity. One where every valid vote is counted, and noting but. I can't imagine why anyone would be opposed to that. But some are. And that makes me suspicious.
Tim,
We really aren't very far apart on this.
I agree that the mistakes need to be fixed and also, voter ID, like they have in Canada makes total sense.
I just don't like people twisting this to mean it had anything to do with the 2020 election results which was the entire reason to do the audit.
When they did the audit, nobody said "hey, lets do this as a check on the presidential election process and just by chance.........it happened to be the biggest country in a Trump contested state, AZ.
It was done to contest the results. That most important point shouldn't get lost by Trump followers who are being told by Trump that it proved he won.
We learned some other things too that can be applied in the future to make the process better. I'm all for that.
I showed the many previous, convictions for fraud to acknowledge the SYSTEM has flaws that need fixing and people will always try to cheat.
What they found wrong this year..............was not just a 2020 issue. It has affected all elections and should be seen as such.
and what I have learned from this post. their will be no or very few changes to better the chances of cheaters being caught. Why is this. Dems want to cheat. they have cheated will continue till their stopped. And the election laws will not be changed without their help. Will they help or continue to insist R's want to stop all black votes??? Think the answer is so very clear. Find a dem who will help, I dare you. Bring me a name, any name who honestly wants to correct this mess of a voting system. That dem is more rare than honesty in DC.
"and what I have learned from this post. their will be no or very few changes to better the chances of cheaters being caught. Why is this. Dems want to cheat."
mcfarm,
You didn't LEARN that from THIS thread. You've known that forever and you are twisting the INTERPRETATION of this thread to MEAN what you've been absolutely certain of forever.
The AZ audit showed us a couple of things that COULD HAVE been learned.
1. It proved that Biden won that county with an even HIGHER level of confidence, in fact about as high as in any place for any election in history........which was almost the entire reason for the audit. Far right republicans alleged cheating in this election and this was the HAND PICKED group and THE county that was going to finally do the right kind of audit the far right was screaming for to expose all the cheating by democrats.
2. It showed some flaws in the system that should be addressed for future elections, that Tim pointed out.
What it absolutely DID NOT show is.............cheating by Democrats.
This is sort of like Trump claiming this audit showed that he won.
You are claiming that an audit showing no cheating by democrats taught you that Dems want to cheat.
Granted, there are differences in how strict each side wants requirements to be to vote but THIS audit wasn't mainly about that. It was to show whether there was actual cheating or not.
What it absolutely DID NOT show is.............cheating by Democrats.
Of course it didn't show that! No one is arguing that, are they?
Why? Because the "facts" will most probably never be allowed to see the light of day.
Don't believe me? Then answer Tim's questions. A simple answer would be nice.
Just read this today:
"VoterGA, an election integrity nonprofit organization, received confirmation through Open Records Requests (ORRs) from 56 counties that either most or all of the images that the Dominion voting system automatically created for tabulating results have been destroyed.
Images of ballots are crucial for election records and are required by both federal and state law to be retained for 22 months and 24 months, respectively."
Ever wonder why it is that being held accountable is such a problem for so many? This is no different than the DOJ & FBI never being held accountable.
My "Rule #2" for government:
There must be accountability at every level of society.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77329/#77766
By cfdr - Nov. 14, 2021, 12:16 p.m.
What it absolutely DID NOT show is.............cheating by Democrats.
Of course it didn't show that! No one is arguing that, are they?
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77329/#77763
By mcfarm - Nov. 14, 2021, 11:45 a.m.
and what I have learned from this post. their will be no or very few changes to better the chances of cheaters being caught. Why is this. Dems want to cheat. they have cheated will continue till their stopped.
"what I learned from this post"...reading is fundamental and you cannot just inject words of your own MM...I clearly ;learned that both sides of this argument here on this post want to fix the system. never once mentioned an audit and what it did or did not teach me. My surmise, unless you or someone has another is that dems do not want to help and not care to help...cheating is fine with them as long as they can get away with it. Sorry but going back to the JFK sham of a vote those 50 years have been quite long enough trials to see. Have repubs done? Well lets just assume they have and then the cause is all the more urgent
OK, fair enough. Thanks for the elaboration.
Sorry if I misconstrued what you meant.
fair enough. Add one more thing about dems and libs. With all this latest info that came recently about the Russian hoax where is one lib or lib publication standing up like a man and apologize to Trump, his family and America. Years and millions of dollars and wasted energy for what? To run the guy out of office that made an attempt to do what he said and clean the sewers in DC. Where are the retractions, where are the apologies? And best of all where are the indictments? What has cdfl been saying for a solid week? Accountability....there is none if you are a lib