so all the good and just people running Cal schools wanted to vaxx any kid over 12. Suddenly the folks said, uhh no thanks I think we have quite enough of you trying to interfere with our kids the last couple of years. And so 28000 or so would of been pulled from school, but wait you say. The powers that be just wanted to save our children. And guess what? That veil was pulled and out popped that fact that with 28000 missing kids a big pile of money would also be missing from the pile they burn every year. And magically, just like that the mandate was gone and the money genie was saved to burn more money tomorrow.
However you want to twist it mcfarm, the facts and science remain............getting vaccinated saves lives. Not getting vaccinated costs lives.
Their objective is to SAVE LIVES.
Fighting and vilifying entities that are trying to save lives is not exactly a noble cause.
Again, I'm just an objective, independent (not affiliated with a political side) scientist trying to enlighten people here with the truth.
And your REAL friends tell you the truth.
Fake friends push political agendas and brainwashing for self serving/enriching motives that include ratings, financial, votes and power.
And tell you things that you want to hear.........for those reasons.
Those are not your true friends.
news flash MM. Very few school boards are friends with conservative Christians right now. As I said had they been honest to begin with they would not have to lie now. It was a power play for federal dollars. Period. They as clear as day and do not care a wit about a 12 year getting covid. Schools have proven as a place to be safe and certainly not spreaders and never were.
Ive got to ask, if vaccinations are the scientific right thing to do to save lives, why did the schools reverse?
Maybe Ive misread what you mean mm but that dollar sign sure looks significant here.
Actually I know very little about the details but....
John
Or how about if vacs are the scientific path why do we not require vacs for illegal aliens. Think maybe politics and power might be a bigger factor for libs? Words and deeds.
"news flash MM. Very few school boards are friends with conservative Christians right now. As I said had they been honest to begin with they would not have to lie now. It was a power play for federal dollars. Period. They as clear as day and do not care a wit about a 12 year getting covid. Schools have proven as a place to be safe and certainly not spreaders and never were."
New flash mcfarm, I go to 4 different schools every single week and they care an enormous amount about 12 year olds getting COVID.
Scott Elementary, Oak Hill Elementary, McCutchanville Elementary and North Junior High(where the North High School students join us).
This is ages 6-18 years old. Plenty of 12 year olds.
We had to cancel chess last year(after 24 consecutive years of doing chess) because they were concerned about 12 year olds getting COVID.
We have very strict NEW rules this year at every school. We had to break up into 2 groups and meet every other week to cut the numbers in half to lessen the chances of spreading COVID. We have to wear masks.
They shut down all the water fountains.
We have new dismissal procedures that don't allow parents into the building to pick up their kids. We take the kids to the parents who wait outside the building.
This stuff goes thru the school boards mcfarm. They are constantly having serious discussions about how to best protect these children........it's their absolute top priority.
When was the last time that you were actually in an elementary school or junior high?, let alone had a discussion with a real school board or principle to know what really matters to them about COVID?
I've done that with 4 different schools the last 2 months.
I can tell you that you are exactly, 100% wrong about your statements above.
That's what happens when you rely on Fox news to tell you everything that you want to hear.
I live in the real world though and your sources are not telling the truth about it.
John,
Like everything in the real world, school boards and schools have to make decisions that are sometimes not optimal.
In the ideal world........there would be no COVID.
In the ideal world.........everybody would be smart and get vaccinated.
They have to make adjustments trying to accomplish what's best for all the students based on the circumstances and cards they are dealt.
Unfortunately, not everybody is smart enough to get vaccinated on their own........so they try to have policies that result in the maximum amount of vaccinations and protection for their children WHICH IS THE TOP PRIORITY.....without it seriously interfering with or obstructing other objectives that contribute to educating the children.
In this case, they were forced to make an adjustment based on a sub optimal situation where they couldn't just make all the kids get vaccinated without suffering consequences.
The accusations from mcfarm that claim they don't really care about the kids and only care about the money is about as out of touch with the real world as any example that I could come up with.
It would be like calling a drought................a flood in the weather world.
They are devoting their lives/careers to providing children the best education possible under the safest environment possible. I know because I see it personally all week at 4 different schools and have conversations with them.
Like I said earlier mcfarm, attacking people like this is less than noble and that's being extraordinarily kind.
I wonder when the last time that Shaun Hannity or Tucker Carlson had discussions with actual school boards, principles and teachers at schools like this?
Based on the opinions they express during their shows.......maybe never.
I'll bet they taught you this too mcfarm:
"Schools have proven as a place to be safe and certainly not spreaders and never were."
You will probably ignore this but other readers with open minds might learn a few things:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html
Children and adolescents can be infected with SARS-CoV-2, can get sick with COVID-19, and can spread the virus to others.9-15 In the United States through March 2021, the estimated cumulative rates of SARS-CoV-2 infection and COVID-19 symptomatic illness in children ages 5-17 years were comparable to infection and symptomatic illness rates in adults ages 18-49 and higher than rates in adults ages 50 and older.16 Estimated cumulative rates of infection and symptomatic illness in children ages 0-4 years are roughly half of those in children ages 5-17 years, but are comparable to those in adults ages 65 years or older. These cumulative rates were estimated from CDC models that account for under-detection among reported cases.17
Several studies conducted early during the COVID-19 pandemic suggested that the incidence rate among children and adolescents was lower than among adults.9, 10, 18-23 However, the lower incidence rates may have been due in part to children, when compared to adults, having fewer opportunities for exposure (due to school, daycare, and activity closures) and a lower probability of being tested.17 Studies that have systematically tested children and adolescents, irrespective of symptoms, for acute SARS-CoV-2 infection (using antigen or RT-PCR assays) or prior infection (through antibody testing) have found their rates of infection can be comparable, and in some settings higher, than in adults.12, 15, 24-29
Children and adolescents can also transmit SARS-CoV-2 infection to others. Early during the COVID-19 pandemic, children were not commonly identified as index cases in household or other clusters9, 10 largely because schools and extracurricular activities around the world were closed or no longer held in-person. However, outbreaks among adolescents attending camps, sports events, and schools have demonstrated that adolescents can transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others.11, 14, 30 Furthermore, transmission studies that have examined secondary infection risk from children and adolescents to household contacts who are rapidly, frequently, and systematically tested demonstrate that transmission does occur"
metmike: So let me ask you, seriously mcfarm, where did you get this idea of yours from?
"Schools have proven as a place to be safe and certainly not spreaders and never were."
I actually know 2 children involved with my chess programs this month 1 in elementary school and 1 in junior high that had to miss chess because they had COVID. Fortunately, they are both fully recovered.
"It's not an infrigement on your rights if it's for your own good" said every dictator in the history of humanty.
duh? yes MM revelation children CAN get sick from covid. Mostly like a mild cold but of course in rare occasions can be worse. Do we run around with our hair on fire and ruin children's grade school experience or do we live our lives. Yes make our own decisions, carefully and thoughtfully or let some bureaucrat run them for us. Hell we cannot even trust most bureaucrats to use common sense for the most basic decisions let alone run our lives. The glaring example for this mess? Millions of illegals not even tested or vaxxed and these same bureaucrats claim to be serious about covid. Senate hearing recently with Fauci and the head of the cdc. 'Well that's a difficult problem" they both replied, as a few thousand more ran across the Rio Grande that very morning.
You are correct "they had to alter their policy" ....why? Parents have had enough and the federal donation times 28000 students
""It's not an infrigement on your rights if it's for your own good" said every dictator in the history of humanty."
Of the tens of thousands of rules/laws in society, almost all of them are based on whats good and what protects everybody.
There is no ethical right to do really dumb things that hurt you..........when it also hurts other people.
Why mess up your argument by using dictatorship Tim?
This has 0 to do with dictatorship.
It's not stage 1 of an elaborate scheme with more stages to come that will end up with us having a dictatorship as your example eludes to.
That's pure fear mongering and paranoia.
You might want to believe it but it just ain't so, as Reagan said.
This is consistent with all the mandatory vaccines we've had and accepted in the last 60 years and isn't part of an evil plot by the government to take over our lives.
It is part of an absurd plot by the far right to convince people that this is what( Biden/Fauci are about) and they must reject it.
They have the science/medicine and biology to support it.
They have the ethics to support it.
They have the legal history and precedent.
Nothing new here except its being applied to a new threat, using old strategies that always worked and science.......but the new part is the way the far right is opposing it.
Please do fight against corruption and the government taking control of our lives..........forcing us to pay more taxes, forcing us to accept things against our religious beliefs or against our political beliefs or that are bad for our country.
Why fight something that is designed to save lives and make Americans healthier and more prosperous???
Fight FOR things that are good for American productivity not against them. Even is it requires cooperating with the opposite party in power.
And also give them MORE freedoms. Even Dr. Oz knows this!.........unless he's UNlearned it since announcing he's running for Congress (-:
It's no coincidence that when Trump was in office and pushing for a quick vaccine, that almost all republicans were for the vaccine ASAP.......to line up with Trump's and the republican view.
Most resistance came from Democrats and some in the MSM because it opposed Trump.
Then we changed presidents and the narratives completely flip flopped so that they lined up to support or reject the party in charge.
Democrats believed in the vaccine because NOW, it a democrat leader pushing them.
Many republicans that previously supported Trumps rapid vaccine development, are now against Biden's pro vaccine policies. If Trump was still president and had the exact same vaccine policies........they would support them.
How can people that were for the development of vaccines ASAP while Trump was in office, flip to "they haven't been tested safe, after billions of shots" when Biden is in office?
You know its true.
This is almost entirely political. Again, Trump with the same policies and we would see none of this.
Notice how Trump is keeping his mouth shut on this instead of speaking out for vaccines like he did almost every day in office from March to November 2020.
Speaking out for vaccines now.............would be helping Biden. Can't have that.
The objective is to oppose Biden by tricking people into thinking that his push for vaccines is part of a government plot to steal our freedoms. Your views suggests that you are one of the people that have been tricked.
When its actually increasing freedoms.
om..ni..cron as Biden and Fuaci has taught us hit S Africa the day after Thanksgiving. Now new data today says it may have peaked, about 3 weeks. Now Biden come out and warns of a "winter of death". This is looking more and more like another lock down all from a illness similar to a common cold. More science I guess.
mcfarm,
The southern border policies have been a big disaster. I'm with you there.
If you want strict COVID laws applied to those people, than to be consistent, you should be for the same thing for US citizens.
I'm for those laws to be applied equally, including both those groups.
Your posts suggest that US citizens should be able to decide what they want to do and not follow COVID rules but that illegal aliens should be held to a higher standard.
You do realize that the illegal alien population is a very tiny fraction of COVID spreading. Not allowing any of them in, for instance is barely going to make a dent in COVID in this country.
But I do agree with that particular point to be consistent with the position.
Your position is based on just being anti Biden, anti Fauci and opposing everything from those sources...........even when the position has to contradict itself.
"all from a illness similar to a common cold. More science I guess."
mcfarm,
You never fail to amaze with statements that can be irrefutably shown to be the complete opposite of your claim.
I would bet you the families of the 800,000 people that died from COVID don't know another person that died from the common cold.
And the 12,000,000 people that had long COVID, never had this happen to them from the common cold.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/10/211013114112.htm
"The researchers conducted a systematic review of 57 reports that included data from 250,351 unvaccinated adults and children who were diagnosed with COVID-19 from December 2019 through March 2021."
The investigators noted several trends among survivors, such as:
metmike: I strongly suggest that you stop getting all your news from FOX and other far right sources that are not telling you the entire story on many issues(which is being kind).
I'm thrilled that, at least you come here and know that this advice would be like asking the pope to convert to Islam but what the heck..........I'll state it anyway.
You do give us a good beat on the latest from the mind of a FOX viewer........and there are tens of millions and its not always bad stuff.
all I know is what I read and hear on the radio. They say omicron is like a light cold. If you have differentt present the case. That is what I said....omicron
the boarder you have backwards somehow, We are locked down. They can go anywhere and do anything. Makes no sense if your goal is to stop covid and you think tests, vaccs, lock downs are the way to stop covid.
There is tremendous uncertainty about the severity of the Omicron variant.
It looks likely that it's not as bad as the Delta, with it being more in the respiratory tract instead of the lungs.
However, there is no indication what so ever by any credible sources that its anything like what you say your source stated "They say omicron is like a light cold" Not even close man. You need to expand to more credible sources.
Light colds don't cause large amounts of people to be hospitalized mcfarm.
As cases spread and countries plan their response, researchers await crucial data on the severity of the disease caused by the coronavirus variant.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03794-8
On 14 December, the South African private health insurer Discovery Health in Johannesburg announced that hospitalization risk has been 29% lower among people infected with Omicron, compared with people infected with a previous variant.
Early results suggest a glimmer of hope. Reports from South Africa have consistently noted a lower rate of hospitalization as a result of Omicron infections compared with infections caused by the Delta variant, which is currently responsible for most SARS-CoV-2 infections globally. On 14 December, the South African private health insurer Discovery Health in Johannesburg announced that hospitalization risk has been 29% lower among people infected with Omicron, compared with people infected with a previous variant.
This has fuelled suggestions that Omicron causes milder disease than previous variants. But researchers say it is too early to be sure, and key methodological details of that study have not yet been published. Such details are crucial when interpreting data on disease severity, which can be confounded by factors such as hospital capacity, the age and overall health of those initially infected, and the extent of previous exposure to coronavirus.
It will take time for a consistent picture to emerge from countries that currently have fewer Omicron infections. On 13 December, Denmark released data showing that hospitalization rates for people infected with Omicron seemed to be on a par with those for people infected with other variants. But this comparison was based on only about 3,400 cases of Omicron infection and 37 hospitalizations.
Similarly, a 16 December report from Imperial College London found no evidence of diminished hospitalizations from Omicron infections compared with Delta in England, although this was again based on relatively few cases. Overall, the numbers are still too small to draw firm conclusions about the severity of disease caused by Omicron, says Troels Lillebæk, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Copenhagen.
And a rapidly spreading variant could dangerously strain health-care systems, even if the risk of severe disease or death is relatively low for any individual. “A small fraction of a very large number is still a large number,” says Woolhouse. “So the population-level threat is very real.”
South Africa’s optimistic data might not be a sign that Omicron itself is more benign than previous variants. More than 70% of the population in regions heavily infected with Omicron have had previous exposure to SARS-CoV-2, and about 40% have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, says Jassat. This makes it difficult to disentangle the effects of pre-existing immunity from inherent properties of the variant itself.
They found that over the first 24 hours, Omicron multiplied about 70 times faster inside respiratory-tract tissue than the Delta variant. When they ran the same experiments with the lung tissue, they found Omicron was actually worse at infecting those cells than either Delta or the original strain of the virus that originated in Wuhan.
That seemingly helps explain the variant’s infectiousness, and also why it may not be causing as severe sickness as previous variants of the coronavirus — as early data suggest.
How much more infectious still remains to be seen, Çevik said. This finding, from tissue studied in the lab, suggests that Omicron’s mutations have turbo-boosted its ability to enter human cells and replicate inside them. But until scientists have collected and analyzed samples from inside patients’ noses and throats, they won’t know if the variant actually leads to substantially higher viral loads, which has been the key to Delta’s own enhanced infectiousness over previous strains.
They found that Omicron’s heavily mutated spike protein outmuscled both Delta and the original coronavirus at attaching to ACE2 — the receptor that the virus uses to enter human cells. “We find Omicron pseudovirus is more infectious than any other variant tested,” they wrote.
Lots of uncertainty about some things but absolute certainty about others.
1. Omicron is definitely more contagious and will spread rapidly. We could have an enormous spike in January/February that even exceeds the spike from early January. 2020 for number of cases(but probably not deaths).
2. Omicron is definitely much, MUCH worse than a light cold and puts people in the hospital with severe cases....even though its likely to be less severe than Delta, with less deaths.
3. Delta is still out there.
4. Being vaccinated arms your immune system to react much quicker and with more gusto to protect you from COVID.
5. The more people that are vaccinated, the less people there will be that get COVID and the less people there will be that die from COVID.......both vaccinated and unvaccinated. Not getting vaccinated makes you a potential risk to other people around you, even those who are vaccinated and wearing a cloth mask that doesn't really reduce their risk that much....like an N95 mask can.
If we want to minimize everybody's risk and maximize everybody's protection, we have to maximize the number of people vaccinated. This isn't rocket science(and shouldn't be politics)......but it is 100% proven, no brainer medical science and biology.
There is no ethical right to do really dumb things that hurt you..........when it also hurts other people.
Why mess up your argument by using dictatorship Tim?
This has 0 to do with dictatorship.
This debate has been done to death already MM, and although you don't realize it, you've already had your arse handed to you over it.
Waiting for new info. Looks to be a long wait.
MM, and although you don't realize it, you've already had your arse handed to you over it.
Waiting for new info. Looks to be a long wait.
You didn't even have to wait a day Tim!
Appeals court reinstates Biden’s COVID vaccine mandate
Started by metmike - Dec. 17, 2021, 9:01 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/79205/
A federal appeals court on Friday reinstated President Biden’s mandate
You want to bet on how long it takes for the SCOTUS to shot this unconstitutional mandarte down?
But that's not the debate to which I referred.
I was willing to bet that you were wrong on the George Floyd verdict but this one could go either way........as stated previously.
It's down to a "judgment" call based on what the judges prioritize.
The right of individuals to control what gets put into their bodies vs the rights of all people and of entities to protect all people in the numerous environments where mandates apply.
You already know my personal view based on authentic science and ethics.
We'll see what the judges rule in any further decisions.
It's down to a "judgment" call based on what the judges prioritize.
The Floyd/Chavin trial was based on politics, not law, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that as we have burned enough bandwidth already.
The current SCOTUS is made up of a majority of justices who prioritize the constitution and the liberty if protects. This one is a slam dunk.
"The Floyd/Chavin trial was based on politics, not law"
Not according to the overwhelming evidence in these discussions(you haven't learned yet previous discussions here come back up as evidence)
Chauvin verdict reached
36 responses |
Started by metmike - April 20, 2021, 4:13 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/68270/
Derek Chauvin trial
61 responses |
Started by metmike - March 29, 2021, 10:39 p.m.