Previous discussions:
Trump Admits He Wanted Pence to Overturn the Election
22 responses |
Started by metmike - Jan. 31, 2022, 7:23 p.m
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/81146/
Why Trump may choose to run third-party in 2024
Started by metmike - Jan. 29, 2022, 3:40 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/81009/
Trump claims fraud in2020 election
8 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Jan. 27, 2022, 3:17 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/80894/
Fake Trump electors scheme
Started by metmike - Jan. 26, 2022, 2:17 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/80849/
Jan 6th in perspective
17 responses |
Started by TimNew - Jan. 7, 2022, 12:20 p.
This is a great example of where you run into trouble MM. You have a very foggy definition of just what "truth" is. Near as I can tell, for you, opinions you like are "truth" and facts you don't like are "lies".
A few examples.
"Autopsy results are flimsy evidence"
"Banning AR-15's" will definitly save lives"
"We had the most secure election in history. Hard evidence of significant procedural break down and 10's of thousands of invaid ballots from two audits in the whole country does not call that into question"
And now you feel the RNC is censuring LIz Cheny and Kinzinger for seeking the truth.
The fabled Jan 6th commision has nothing to do with the truth. They are there to convince the gullible that old news is somehow new. They are not at all interested in finding out how to prevent future occurence. They are clinging to the only hope they have for the upcoming election. Why any republican would take an active role in this charade boggles my mind, but their motives have absolutely nothing to do with a "commitment to finding the truth".
More tribalism
All I care about as an independent, objective scientist are the facts.
"Let's face it. Let's call it what it is. January 6 was a riot that was incited by Donald Trump in an effort to intimidate Mike Pence and the Congress into doing exactly what he said in his own words last week: Overturn the election," Christie said.
Mike Pence on Friday made his sharpest break yet with Donald Trump, saying the former president was “wrong” about Pence’s ability as vice president to overturn the 2020 election, calling the notion “un-American.”
Trump slammed Pence ahead of the Capitol riot on Jan. 6, 2021, for not having the “courage” to reject swing-state electors for then-President-elect Joe Biden, but Pence until now has more gently pushed back on Trump over it.
“I heard this week that President Trump said I had the right to overturn the election. President Trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election,” Pence told a gathering of the Federalist Society in Orlando, Fla.
“The presidency belongs to the American people and the American people alone. And frankly, there is no idea more un-American than the notion than any one person could choose the American president. Under the Constitution, I had no right to change the outcome of our election.”
bet you dollars to donuts that Trump was not gleeful as he watched the insurrection. And that word was added with purpose. Trump was gleeful as he watched the early peaceful protests....as he had asked for
Promising pardons for insurrectionists and calling for protests if indicted could help make a case for obstruction of justice
Trump “is essentially calling for vigilante justice against the justice system. He’s not interested in the pursuit of justice but blocking any investigations,” Moore added.
Trump’s angry outburst came as three investigations by prosecutors that could lead to charges against Trump or top associates all seemed to gain steam last month.
A special grand jury, for example, was approved in Atlanta focused on Trump’s call to Georgia’s secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, on 2 January last year, asking him to just “find” enough votes to block Joe Biden’s Georgia victory, a state Trump lost by more than 11,700 votes.
Trump’s call for huge protests prompted the Fulton county district attorney, Fani Willis, who is leading the criminal inquiry, to ask the FBI to compile a threat assessment to protect her office and the grand jury that is slated to meet in May.
Last month too, a top justice official revealed that the DoJ is investigating fake elector certifications declaring Trump the winner in several states he lost, a scheme reportedly pushed by Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani for Vice-President Mike Pence could block Congress from certifying Biden’s win. To Trump’s chagrin, Pence rejected the plan.
The RNC voting to censure and describing the January 6th mob as exercising "legitimate political discourse" is disgusting and sad. The party of Lincoln is dead. "Hang Mike Pence" is legitimate political discourse? Bashing police officers in the head with Trump flags is legitimate political discourse?
MIke's defense is "Tribalism", and then a long list of opinions about old news. And this refutes my point, at least in his mind :-)
JOJ, no one has condoned the Jan 6th riot, quit the contrary. But what the left is doing is lumping anyone who was within 20 miles of the riot with the rioters. Anyone who questions the results of the election is an insurrectionist.
BTW, the party of JFK is nonexistent. He'd never survive todays leftists and would most likely be aligned with the "Party of Lincoln", in spite of your conviction of their demise.
"JOJ, no one has condoned the Jan 6th"
The RNC did!!!! Even Foxnews reported it!
The RNC, in its resolution, argued that Cheney and Kinzinger are "participating in a Democratic led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse."
The Republican National Committee did indeed condone it. Officially! In a resolution!
The party of Lincoln is dead. What's left are spineless grovelers to an autocratic Trump.
JOJ, you left off some of the words. Was it intentional?
What you quoted "JOJ, no one has condoned the Jan 6th"
What I said was "JOJ, no one has condoned the Jan 6th riot, quit the contrary. " I will admit I used the word "quit" instead of "Quite", but I'm sure you get the general idea. If you have a quote from the RNC condoning the riots, I'd be happy to take a look, but I have seen a fairly unanamous condemnation.
The words "riot, quite the contrary" certainly change the message.
See, the riots were inexcusable, unacceptable. The peaceful gathering by the vast majority that day in DC questioning the results of the election were certainly reasonable political discourse, even if you disagree with them.
And I maintain that the Jan 6th commision is political theater who's only intent is to recycle old news and misrepresent it at every opportunity. If they present some previously unknown information, I'll change my mind. I suspect I have a long wait.
And no, presenting biased opinions and interpretations of old news does not count as new information.
"MIke's defense is "Tribalism", and then a long list of opinions about old news. And this refutes my point, at least in his mind :-)"
Tim,
In many of the threads that take this path, you keep thinking we are having a winnable debate(argument).
I'm well past that in many of them . You come here for the arguments, NOT to resolve differences.
I was reporting the latest news and analyzing your response to it and behavior...like I just did above.
So you want more elaboration.......here it is.
I think that all Americans deserve to know the details of the truth, that you claim you already know everything about...........but failed to tell us earlier when you knew about it before us.
So even though its all OLD news for you, this is pretty important for me.
Since it's so unique in history and obviously was an attempt to overturn an election and orchestrated for months by the person that lost, who was the president of the United States at the time..........it's profoundly relevant.
Just because one side wants us to go on and not find out anything more because it was their guy/side that did it is not a legit excuse to stop the investigation.
Is it political? Of course it is.......by both sides.
One side wants to STOP the investigation for political reasons.
The side investigating, like every political investigation in recent years is being done by the opposite political party because tribalism prevents both parties from investigating and policing themselves.
Not every investigation is being done to conjure up crimes that didn't exist (like the Mueller investigation).
This one is based on things that really happened and we are seeing the actual facts and there is transparency, the 100% opposite of the Mueller investigation....which was a witch hunt to take down Trump who did nothing wrong.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/80894/#80938
Oh, wait. We do actually have some republicans with the honesty and guts to do what's right here and buck the tribalism.
The opening post in this thread shows how they are being treated.
I understand why you feel you are in an unwinable position. I agree, 100%.
Did you somehow feel that Trump asking Pence to overturn the election was new news? Were you not aware of that on Jan 6th, 2021, or at least shortly after? If not, I'm sorry, but it was all over the news. Would you like me to provide dated sources? They're readiy available.
Were you unaware that several people contacted Trump and asked him to halt the riot? Again, this was all know on or shortly after Jan 6, 2021. And again, I can provide dated sources.
You are certainly having no problem linking sources of opinions on this old data, but it doesn't make it anything other than old data.
I'll ask one more time. What new revelations have come out of this "Investigation". I expect, that as always, you'll dance around the question and pretend I'm asking something else, but it's a very simple question. What do we know now, as a direct result of this investigation, that we did not know before this investigation?
And if you can't supply anything, then my opinion stands and is valid. This charade of political theater is nothing more than a desperate effort to repackage old news in an effort to win points as we head into what is likely to be a devastating election cycle for the left. How you can attach any importance to something like that is beyond me.
Thanks Tim!
That's exactly the response that causes me to just analyze your responses and behavior (as a scientist and objective moderator) after all the points that you ignored were repeated for you.
Tim,
You twist yourself into a pretzel trying to justify the RNC resolution which has nothing to do with the peaceful demonstrators that day and is focused only on the violence. Give it up man!
That's exactly the response that causes me to just analyze your responses and behavior (as a scientist and objective moderator) after all the points that you ignored were repeated for you.
Thanks MM. In your convoluted fashion, you are admitting that nothing new has come out of the investigation. I know if you felt anything had, you'd be more than happy to supply.
JOJ, the RNC resolution is two things. It's condemning pubs for taking part in this charade, which MM acknowledged above. ANd It's saying peaceful protests are reasonable political discourse. But like most on the left, you feel that anyone who questions the election is breaking sme kind of law and/or engaging in "insurection"...
Talk about pretzels :-)
But like most on the left, you feel that anyone who questions the election is breaking sme kind of law and/or engaging in "insurection"...
Is this your version of questioning the election Tim?(and this is outside the Insurrection)
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/81508/#81524
Not with the words you used. But there are valid questions.