https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/08/gop-legitimate-political-discourse/
Well, not EVERY Republican is a spinelessly groveling lapdog for Trump.
Thanks joj!
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/mcconnell-disagrees-with-rnc-calls-jan-6-riot-violent-insurrection
Previous discussion on this topic here:
RNC votes to censure republicans for seeking the truth
19 responses |
Started by metmike - Feb. 7, 2022, 1:21 a.m.
McConnel is saying the RNC should not be picking and choosing which candidates to support. I can see that argument. As far as his statement on the Pubs calling the January 6th riot "reasonable political discourse", I don't know why he's buying into that distortion.
The fact is, I've yet to hear anyone condone the Jan 6th riot.
Assuming we still look at both sides in a dispute here at the forum, here's a statement from the Chairman of the RNC.
The Media Is Distorting Republican Censure of Cheney, Kinzinger (townhall.com)
Let me be abundantly clear: as Chairman of the RNC, I have repeatedly condemned the violence that occurred at the Capitol on January 6th and do so again today. On January 6, 2021 , the members of the RNC released a statement that read, “These violent scenes we have witnessed do not represent acts of patriotism, but an attack on our country and its founding principles.” I tweeted that the violence was “shameful” and condemned it in the strongest possible terms.
"The fact is, I've yet to hear anyone condone the Jan 6th riot."
Did you intentionally leave this person and statements below out?
Trump's views are kind of important in all of this.........since he caused it entirely and continues to double, triple, quadruple, quintuple, sextuple, septuple, oxtuple, nonuple, decuple, undecuple......DOWN on all his statements giving the tens of millions of republicans in his cult ...........a fairy tale/manufactured description of the events, featuring his brave, patriotic supporters that were hero's fighting for democracy, that are being misjudged and mistreated.
The former president described the participants as loving and patriotic, and said Democrats could be blamed for any violence.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/11/trump-jan-6-insurrection-these-were-great-people-499165
“The crowd was unbelievable and I mentioned the word ‘love,’ the love in the air, I’ve never seen anything like it,” he said of his rally on the Ellipse. “That’s why they went to Washington.”
He added: “Too much spirit and faith and love, there was such love at that rally, you had over a million people,” inflating the size of his rally crowd.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/12/trump-january-6-insurrection-lies-nigel-farage/
The “real” insurrection was the 2020 election itself, Trump claims, whereas January 6 was simply “the protest” against that supposedly nefarious day of invalid national voting.
Trump made the promise at a rally in Conroe, Texas, on Saturday.
“If I run and if I win,” he said, referring to the 2024 presidential election, “we will treat those people from January 6 fairly. We will treat them fairly. And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly.”
More than 700 people have been charged in connection with the Capitol attack, around which seven people died as Trump supporters tried to stop certification of his election defeat, in service of his lie that it was caused by electoral fraud. More than 100 police officers were hurt.
metmike: There is something REALLY wrong that tens of millions of Republicans worship this guy and tens of millions of others look the other way and many of the Republicans in office are more afraid of Trump than they are of being dishonest.
We were talking about the RNC and the latest distortion, but if you want to include others, that's fine.
In your first link, he is not talking about the rioters, he was talking about the people who showed up for the protest.
"he said of his rally on the Ellipse."
From your Mother Jones article. SO much for validity if sources huh? :-)
Soon, a year will have passed since thousands of enraged Trump supporters stormed the US Capitol,
Your "Pardon Promise"
If I run and if I win,” he said, referring to the 2024 presidential election, “we will treat those people from January 6 fairly. We will treat them fairly. And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly.”
I guess treating people faiirly is now a matter of national concern. Have you looked at the fallout from this investigation and the innocent people that have been somehow penalized. People that were no where near the capital that day? The only word you seem to see here is 'Pardon". And again, like many on the left, you have demonstrated here that you feel that anyone who was in DC that day is guitly of storming the capital. 10's of thousands were there, 100's sormed the capital.
Once again, I am not defending Trump anymore now than when I dispute the "Nazi's are fine people" and "We should all drink clorox/lysol". This is much the same.
But again, this is a digression from the OP. Not unusual, but I'd like that noted. The recent hubub has been all about the RNC calling the Jan 6th riot "reasonable political discourse" which is patently false.
You continue to defend the wrong side on this one Tim.....but then, keep claiming that you are not defending it based on how you want to define defending.
And you keep saying that you(everybody) already know/knew everything that there is to know.......which is your go to line every time something new comes out.
You are right about it being political but think its all the democrats and a few treasonous republicans that are being political.
What party is trying to stop the investigation into something that really happened and is constantly applying damage control when new pieces of information are discovered that this party doesn't want to learn about or discuss?
Why isn't that political?
I just want all the facts out for Americans like myself... not to hide them.........not to make any up.
Isn't that ok?
"isn't that ok"......sure MM but why not keep the pols out of it if you want facts and let justice handle it? Well we have a weaponized, politicized justice department that has proven to untrustworthy for years now.....so now what do we do?
mcfarm,
I know that you can't tell the difference between this and the corrupt Mueller investigation.
But I can.
This happened!
https://people.com/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-touts-emails-merch-amid-reports/
Tim, if you knew this already, why didn't you tell us?
Or is this new information to you also?
metmike: Democrats are loving this. The more Republicans cling to Trump........the weaker the party gets. If all republicans cast Trump away and went along with the investigation...........it would be like cutting the rope of an anchor and patching the leaks of a sinking boat.
Democrats have never been weaker but the main thing that they have going for them is............TRUMP.
And the willingness of half or more of the republican party to fear him and/or embrace him and/or defend him.
How can this not be more clear?
Yet, the party behaves as if it's completely incapable of seeing it.
Party leaders at the Republican National Committee's winter meeting this past week left no doubt that the GOP is choosing to serve Donald Trump and his political interests before the next presidential election.
Though the committee’s moves demonstrated a sustained loyalty to the former president, outside the winter meeting the censure was condemned by opponents as divisive and contrary to frequent appeals from leaders to expand the party's tent.
The RNC’s discipline “shows more about them than us," Kinzinger said in an interview. “It shows that Trump and Trumpism has overtaken the RNC.”
Cheney in a statement said the move demonstrated how the party had become hostage to Trump.
metmike: Why is all of this not painfully obvious to republicans?
You accuse me of putting words in your mouth while saying somehting like this?
And you keep saying that you(everybody) already know/knew everything that there is to know.......which is your go to line every time something new comes out.
You are right about it being political but think its all the democrats and a few treasonous republicans that are being political.
What I have said is that the "commission" has not revealed any new information. They keep rehashing old news that's been available since about Jan7th, 2020. I've asked for examples beyond the following.
1.) Trump urged Pence to overturn the results.
2.) Lot's of people urged Trump to do something to halt the riot.
2 a.) Trump appeared to be entertained by the riot. (If true, a truly shi##y behavior, but not illegal)
I've asked a few times if I have missed some epiphany from the "committee", but have so far been dissapointed.
I've never used the word "treasonous" when talking about the pubs involved in this charade. Sadly, treason is another word the left has rendered useless after years of repeated misuse. I question their motives,
Yes, the riot happened. No question. But the dems are keeping it, and by extension Trump, alive in a desperate attempt to control some of the damage they will likely face in Nov. Until I see a change in the output, that will remain my opinion.
https://www.businessinsider.com/liz-cheney-january-6-committee-hearings-trump-2022-2
A stunning daily stream of revelations is shedding new light on the depraved effort by Donald Trump, his aides and extremist Republicans to cover up the former President's constitutional arson and desperate bid to steal powerafter the 2020 election.
It is extraordinary that more than 13 months after the US Capitol insurrection, the depth of Trump's lawlessness and abuses of power is still coming into view. It will be for the House committee probing the attack to paint the complete picture and to weigh in on whether they think there was a criminal conspiracy and the extent to which Trump knew about it and directed it.
Mr Trump’s habit of using mobile phones belonging to his aides is causing a headache for investigators
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-jan-6th-call-logs-b2012390.html
Omarosa says Trump 'loved to tear up' White House documents
Former White House aide Omarosa Manigault Newman alleged in an interview that former President Trump "loved to tear up those documents," after the the National Archives said last week that documents handed over to the Jan. 6 committee "included paper records had been torn up" by Trump.
In an interview with MSNBC host Ali Velshi, Manigault Newman alleged that there are "certainly things that I'm sure cannot be accounted for because Donald Trump became very very aware that a lot of these sensitive documents would at some point be made public.
The president's unofficial 'filing system' involves tearing up documents into pieces, even when they're supposed to be preserved.
By ANNIE KARNI
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164
Gee MM. after all the talk we have to endure on this site about fuzzy sources you now come with omarosa....really?
When it's proved beyond a doubt through further investigation that Trump was illegally destroying documents Tim will step up and say "nothing new" discovered. Tim and Mcfarm make a great tandem. Very entertaining stuff... :)
so we agree JOJ that digging up omarosa again is probably unwise?
Exactly joj!
That and they're unfairly attacking Trump(the victim) for political reasons(as if this really didn't happen).
And the evidence isn't coming from reliable sources(like Fox).
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-took-top-secret-documents-to-mar-a-lago-wapo-2022-2
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jan-investigators-find-gaps-trump-white-house-call/story?id=82802726
That and they're unfairly attacking Trump(the victim) for political reasons(as if this really didn't happen).
And the evidence isn't coming from reliable sources(like Fox).
I will summarize what I've said so far as there appears to be some confusion.
The Riot Happened.
The RNC did not call it "reasonable political discourse". I posted the actual statement above.
The Jan 6th "investigation" has not uncovered any new information. Every "news bit" I have seen was general knowledge by the end of Jan 2021. I don't think the motivation of this investigation has anything to do with uncovering the truth and unless they start providing something new, I won't be changing my mind.
Next. So the latest is that Trump was illegally destroying documents? Is this another "Blockbuster Headline" that will go the way of the "Forged Electoral Documents". If Trump did something illegal, he should face the consequences. But I suspect this latest will fade into obscurity only to be replaced by the next "blockbuster" which will be breathlessly repeated by all the usual suspects. (Lather/Rinse/Repeat).
Tim,
So you disagree with McConnell's characterization of the RNC resolution. Interesting...
I think he has a point regarding the RNC Censuring Pub participants in the Jan 6th commision. I question their motives, but the RNC's function is to support pubs, even when they disagree.
I'm surpised he accepted the NYT distortion on the "Reasonable Political Discourse" statement. The RNC Chair was qute clear on this. I posted a quote above. Peaceful Protests are, and should be alowed even if you disagree. Riots are an entirely different matter, no matter what your position may be.
By joj - Feb. 10, 2022, 8:28 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/81536/#81643
Tim will step up and say "nothing new" discovered.
By TimNew - Feb. 11, 2022, 2:12 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/81536/#81656
The Jan 6th "investigation" has not uncovered any new information
..........Every "news bit" I have seen was general knowledge by the end of Jan 2021. I don't think the motivation of this investigation has anything to do with uncovering the truth and unless they start providing something new, I won't be changing my mind.
metmike: General knowledge covers almost everything. For an unprecedented event that featured the president trying to overturn an election that he lost using fraudulent schemes for 2 months, then with an insurrection mob, we need much more than "general knowledge"
When somebody commits a crime, the prosecutor doesn't just use "general knowledge" in court to convict him or her.
They do a long investigation that in some cases can take numerous months to gather evidence so that when he/she goes to court, they have all the relevant facts.
The defense does the exact same thing.
Trump can hire lawyers and investigators to find evidence that he didn't do all those fraudulent things that we all witnessed him doing for 2+ months.
Think about that last statement. He actually can't do that because we witnessed what he did to try to overturn the election in real time over 2+ months. Not the legal challenges but all the monumental fraudulent stuff.
If somebody robs a bank and you know the person and were there as a witness to see it, they can't very well claim that it wasn't them or make up some excuse for why they held up a gun to the tellers head. It happened.
In court, the judge or jury will be expecting much more than general knowledge from the prosecution to convict him.
If, during the course of the investigation, the prosecutor finds evidence that tells them it was another person that robbed the bank.............they are supposed to turn that over to the defense or drop the charges or do more investigating.
Regardless, "general knowledge" doesn't cut it for most investigations and this unprecedented crime should result in one of the most detailed investigations in our country's history.
Because it's a republican that committed the crime, it's no coincidence that it's entirely republicans crying foul play(many honest ones are not-and getting hammered for not playing the political game because ethics comes first for them).
And the ones claiming they condemn the Insurrection but not the investigation are using disingenuous words.
You can't condemn the investigation if you really want to know more than "general knowledge" and are not just acting for political reasons.
If this was Bill Clinton, there is no doubt every republican would be on board with the investigation.
Regardless of who it was and what party is investigating..........IT HAPPENED and we need MUCH MORE information, that this committee will be able to get.......only by investigating.
You seem to be missing my point MM.
I don't know how else to make it.
So, to repeat myself, the committee has not revealed anything that was not known before Jan 2021 ended. They keep restating the same facts in different ways and every now and then, throw in a new "scandal" that seems to disappear after a few weeks when there turns out to be no There "There".
1.) Trump urged Pence to overturn the results.
2.) Lot's of people urged Trump to do something to halt the riot.
2 a.) Trump appeared to be entertained by the riot. (If true, a truly shi##y behavior, but not illegal)
I'm not missing your point at all Tim because you just repeated it to clarify.
Here it is again...from your own key board:
1.) Trump urged Pence to overturn the results.
2.) Lot's of people urged Trump to do something to halt the riot.
2 a.) Trump appeared to be entertained by the riot. (If true, a truly shi##y behavior, but not illegal)
I think there's over 10,000 times more detailed information describing the specific actions of numerous people involved, before, during and after that event, than what your summary tells us.
Some of it we've know for over a year. Some of it we learned since then but there's a ton more to learn and is being learned.
The only way to do that is with an investigation.
Why not just learn new things as they come out..........oh, that's right, it's things that show a republican acted in a despicable, unconstitutional way.........that's why not.
Again, if this were Clinton your position would be 100% the opposite.
If this were Clinton, my position would be 100%, exactly the same.
I'll ask one more time.
Outside of the bullet items I listed above...
What's new? Not unfounded allegations, not supposition, not opinion.
What new facts have been revealed?
And you will respond like you always do Tim. Even joj predicted this response.
1. We knew that already or
2. It's not true
Trump considered deploying the National Guard to confiscate voting machines, a draft executive order showed. The Trump campaign also installed fake electors in seven swing states under the direction of Rudy Giuliani.
The new emails/texts and other stuff are just the tip of the iceberg. There are many documents, interviews and other information that they are gathering.
What are you afraid of Tim?
Why not let them investigate, then let's see what they have in a few months?
Even though YOU will keep repeating that YOU already knew everything or that it's not true.........I will continue to want to learn more about this unprecedented event.
All Americans have the right to know as much as possible and your synopsis of what we should know is woefully short of that:
1.) Trump urged Pence to overturn the results.
2.) Lot's of people urged Trump to do something to halt the riot.
2 a.) Trump appeared to be entertained by the riot. (If true, a truly shi##y behavior, but not illegal)
I've pointed out several times, the "Fake Elector" issue, which if true, had no impact. But you hear no more about this Bombshell. Tge documents he's alledged to have shredded/distroyed? There is actually no penalty defined for that "crime". Assuming it's true, they'll have to prosecute under some other "law"
"Considering deploying National Guard" GASP!!!! Truman considered nuking Canada. Quick Question. Are we prosecuting for thought crime yet? Sounds like you're all for it. At lleast in this case.
I have no problem with an investigatrion. When they start one, I'll be interested in the results. Te is not an investigation.
1.) Trump urged Pence to overturn the results.
————————————
Isn’t #1 by itself bad enough? He’s a traitor (violating the Constitution that he swore to uphold on his Inauguration Day) and wannabe dictator just for doing that!
Absolutely Larry, it's the most anti Constitutional, un American thing that I know of that a president has ever done.
Which is why we need to gather as much information as possible that relates to it.
I actually didn't feel that way back in January 2021 but after learning more since then, changed my view.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/13/politics/giuliani-january-6-committee/index.html
By TimNew - Feb. 11, 2022, 2:12 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/81536/#81656
"But I suspect this latest will fade into obscurity only to be replaced by the next "blockbuster" which will be breathlessly repeated by all the usual suspects. (Lather/Rinse/Repeat)."
And with each passing day, new revelations about Donald Trump’s involvement in Jan. 6 coup plotting or other misdeeds are raising the stakes.
In 2022, the real question for a frazzled, exhausted America is becoming less whether the 45th president was a crook, but more what are we going to do about it?