But unfortunately, he is not going anywhere.
Sanctions will remain in place worldwide for as long as Putin remains in power. He has crossed the line into war criminal. Well, he sort of already had for numerous crimes in the past, but now the free world has come around to seem him as a war criminal.
This will cause great economic disruption for the short, medium and perhaps long term. Grains and oil in short supply.
On the optimistic (naive?) side, if and when he does go, perhaps his failure will give pause to future authoritarians?
joj
I agree with your thoughts but I have a tremendous amount of hope for the worlds future ( nuke bombs are the caveat here ).
You just cant do that sh#t anymore. The "world " is just too transparent anymore. Sure, mis-information and all that throws a ringer in the mix but free states have demonstrated the better choice. During the last 300 years or so,the world has had its first taste of "chocolate" - they like it- and they want more. If you never tasted chocolate, you'd never miss it...but!
John
Wonderful, wonderful, WONDERFUL points!
The impossible to answer question is how do we do it without causing Russia to use nuclear weapons.
It WILL cause additional tremendous sacrifices with certainty(already happening) for the world with shortages of fossil fuels and food.
Most would agree that it would be well worth it(including me-I'm willing to chip in a couple thousand bucks) if the end result is Putin going bye bye...........which, of course is how its being sold.
However, the debate over whether Putin would go nuclear seems to be NOT dialing in the real risk of it happening anyway close to representing the reality.
Some of that is actually needed to maintain the resolve of the West. If we were told that doing this has a good chance of Putin unleashing a nuclear holocaust and killing tens of millions of innocent(as if there is any other kind) people, then folks would seriously question our tactics.
To get rid of Putin, is it worth risking the death of 1,000 times more people, than will die if we don't stop him, in addition to the already tremendous burdens that we know with absolute certainty?
If the potential benefit is 1,000 times better than where we are...........its a no brainer. I say potential because our current tactics don't assure Putin going bye bye.
We've watched all the HEART BREAKING stories, seeing the brave people in Ukraine, like never before in human history because of the wonderful technology and it gets us all fired up to want to be ALL IN with anything we need to do to help them. No need to repeat all the authentic, very powerfulreasons for the entire world to get behind Ukraine and oppose Russia.
I'm one of those people!
But I'm becoming MORE convinced that Putin, absolutely WOULD use nuclear weapons, with growing confidence.
Not for sure IS going to do it but we're setting the stage for the conditions TO CAUSE IT!
Not saying we shouldn't do this but just saying "we're setting the stage to greatly increase the chance of Putin to use nuclear weapons" and most people are greatly UNDERESTIMATING this.
I can say this with certainty.
If Putin DOES use nuclear weapons, most people will wish we didn't take the current path. Put another way. If you had a crystal ball and it showed the end point to the current path was a nuclear war and tens of millions dying and today's great suffering looking like a picnic, compared to the unthinkable but REAL APOCALYPSE that would happen..........would you not be screaming for us to NOT do this?
Nobody can know how this will end but I can guess and will pretend that this is a chess board.
Well before Putin loses control, he will get more desperate to use the only thing that he has left.... increase the THREAT of nuclear weapons to an alarming pitch.
Then, it will be the West's move. The West has already made a commitment to obliterate Putin and they can either stay the course and see if Putin's threat is just a scare tactic to test his bluff OR they can give him some concessions to lessen his ramped up threat of using nuclear weapons.
Then, it's Putins move. If the West backs down a bit, Putin may see this as a weak link for the West and know that nuclear weapons are the only thing keeping him around and continue to use nuclear weapons as a bargaining tool. This is actually what Putin is planning, in my opinion.
However, Putin actually did NOT anticipate the current move by the West to punish Russia/him so severely, causing him to lose some key pieces on the chess board and the West, suddenly having their chess pieces working in tandem and aimed at capturing his King and winning the game......theatening an inevitable......check mate.
And at this point, he can NEVER win. NEVER EVER win. There is no possible scenario for Putin to get what he thought he would get earlier this year when he planned this out.
His choices are all about how to get out with the least amount of losses, with possibly getting something but never winning. The West is showing the resolve and position that its going for the entire win. They're coming for the kill.......and to get Putin unless he resign from the game and gives the West their win, or they get it the hard way for him.
But there is 1 more potential outcome1
I tell my students, at practice, when chess games are for fun, that if they are getting obliterated, it's perfectly fine to resign, learn some lessons and start another game.
In a competitive tournament, however, since these are not grand masters they are playing, that don't make huge blunders, they are to NEVER RESIGN!
Even if they only have a King left and their opponent has most of their army with 0% chance to win.
Why is that?
Because they can still get a stalemate! With a stalemate.........it's a draw. Both sides get half the point.
The side that was getting obliterated, with no chance to win............gets a draw and is celebrating their arse off(in their heads) and the side that had their "almost for sure win" but made one tiny mistake is kicking themselves because they overlooked one tiny thing.
It's impossible for Putin to win here but he knows how to get a draw...........nuclear weapons!
Neither side wins but it's a draw and in fact, he will actually do MORE damage(added to the damage he is doing now to Ukraine and the world) than the West did to Russia!
Look at the way that he treats Ukraine, killing many innocent people and destroying their country. OF COURSE this is the type of person that would use nuclear weapons to salvage a draw that hurts his opponent more than him.
OF COURSE HE WOULD!
Would Putin Use Nuclear Weapons?
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/11/putin-russia-nuclear-weapons-ukraine-war-no-fly-zone/
metmike: We can all post dozens of different links from different sources that have their well thought out opinions about whether Putin would use nuclear weapons(for and against). I'm just posting one of them here.
On some things, sometimes critical thinking by ourselves can do better than reading all the opinions everywhere.
That's what my previous post represents for me. Critical thinking using the realities. .
I constantly tell my chess pupils that the most important move of the game................is what your opponent did last.
You will always know YOUR plan but overlooking your opponents plan is what ALWAYS causes every single loss. The best tip that you have is what they just did.
It might not make any sense based on what's on the board at that moment that you can see.
But chess pieces have relationships to each other that are completely absent on the current board that suddenly make them much more powerful 2, 3 or 4 moves later that amplifies their attack.
It's much tougher for you to see it than when your opponent came up with the brilliant attack plan but is often the most important part of NOT losing the game.
We're all watching Putin's latest moves and thinking "what the heck can he possibly be thinking"????
He miscalculated the West's response (we assume) and appears to be in a weakening position but is still going ahead with the attack.
This seems insane and makes no sense. He can't possibly win. I contend that its not because he's completely delusional and is totally oblivious to the obvious end point of the West winning, which is the one projected if we just continue with OUR attack.
1. One thing that makes sense is nuclear weapons. This is by far, the most powerful piece and his nuclear arsenal has very few limitations and he knows this strikes incredible fear in his opponents. There will be a million discussions about this from everybody the rest of the month.
2. Another one, is that if he completely takes over Ukraine, he may think that increases his power at the negotiating table to get what he wants.
3. Something else.
Hi joj
Great topic: we all think about
Just to go back to your original post
What crimes did Putin commit previous to his invasion of Ukraine
Reason I ask is Trump has called Putin a genius
I think most people don't understand what Trump meant and Trump isn't always as able to explain himself as some might hope
I don't think Trump was buddies with Putin
He just saw a person who had done a lot of good things for a country that was destroyed
Putin raised Russia up from the ashes of ruin
So, We all agree Putin is not a good guy today, but previous to the invasion what sort of crimes did he commit, considering the political and economic situation in Russia that Putin inherited
As in specific crimes ???
I don't think Trump was buddies with Putin
He just saw a person who had done a lot of good things for a country that was destroyed
Putin raised Russia up from the ashes of ruin
So, We all agree Putin is not a good guy today, but previous to the invasion what sort of crimes did he commit, considering the political and economic situation in Russia that Putin inherited
As in specific crimes ???
The Russian leader has a long record of inhumanity.
https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-war-criminal-inhumanity-syria/
https://qz.com/862764/heres-a-list-of-abuses-in-vladimir-putins-russia/
https://time.com/putin-secret-agents/
This description of him shows that he has some positive character traits.
https://www.historyhit.com/facts-about-vladimir-putin/
Putin photographed with Prime Minister of Japan Shinzo Abe before a meeting. In July 2012, Akita Inu dog Yume was presented to Vladimir Putin by the authorities of the Japanese prefecture of Akita.
Image Credit: Wikimedia Commons
Putin owns a number of pet dogs, and reportedly loves being photographed with different animals. The many pictures of Putin with animals can be broadly divided into three categories: a loving pet owner with his many dogs; an impressive animal handler with horses, bears and tigers; and the rescuer of endangered species such as Siberian cranes and the Siberian bear.
He also pushes for laws for the better treatment of animals, such as a law that prohibits petting zoos inside malls and restaurants, prohibits the killing of stray animals and requires proper care for pets.
metmike: Maybe if every Ukrainian had a dog, he would have not have killed as many innocent people because he didn't want to hurt the dogs (-:
Here's more(some is the same but some is new)
https://historycolored.com/articles/8155/10-interesting-facts-about-vladimir-putin/
A softer side of Vladimir Putin shows his love and care for animals. He has a small pack of dogs at his home and makes a strong effort to assist in the research of various animal species such as tigers, polar bears, dolphins, and cranes. He also pushes for laws for better treatment of animals. The Law on Responsible Treatment of Animals prohibits petting zoos inside of malls and restaurants, prohibits the killing of stray animals, and requires proper care for pets.
Seem like everybody wants to do the "10 facts about Putin" story (-:
https://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/10-facts-about-vladimir-putin-096358
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-11-14/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-vladimir-putin
metmike: That is, didn't know BEFORE reading all these "10 things about Putin" posts (-:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vladimir-putin-facts_n_4995000
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/52056/15-super-manly-facts-about-vladimir-putin
https://www.itv.com/news/2013-07-26/hes-at-it-again-action-man-putin-poses-with-a-20-pound-pike
Seriously, I just learned 10 times more things about his personal life this last hour, looking this stuff up than I knew the last 20 years. ..........and having fun doing it!
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/things-you-didnt-know-about-vladimir-putin.html/
https://factslegend.org/40-rowdy-vladimir-putin-facts-you-will-love/
All kidding aside, there are actually some incredible facts in those stories!!!
36. During his first Presidential term, Russian economy grew steadily for 8 years straight (remember he was President for 8 consecutive years). GDP of Russia grew by 72% (measured in terms of purchasing power).
37. Putin was named as Person of the Year by Time Magazine in 2007.
38. For three consecutive years (2013-2015), Forbes put him in #1 position on the list of Most Powerful People in the world.
39. Time Magazine, in 2015, put Putin in #1 spot on the list of Most Influential People in the world.
The fact that Putin is trying to justify the unjustifiable in Ukraine does not mean we must ignore the U.S. actions that fuel his narrative.
https://theintercept.com/2022/03/07/ukraine-russia-nato-kosovo-war-crimes/
Although many of Putin’s comparisons are nonsense and — even when they are cogent — do nothing to justify his own current murderous campaign, there are relevant insights we can extract from reviewing some of NATO’s actions in Kosovo. The most direct analogy in recent U.S. military history to Putin’s large-scale ground invasion of Ukraine is obviously the Iraq War. Yet it’s important to examine the Kosovo air war because it highlights military tactics that the U.S. and NATO now rightly condemn Russia for using. Like Iraq, it also illustrates the entrenched double standard that permeates the consistently hypocritical U.S. response to the actions of its enemies.
Vladimir Putin and the Russian officials responsible for this invasion of Ukraine should face justice. Once the evidence has been gathered, every war crime should be investigated, indictments issued, and prosecutions undertaken. The obvious venue for this would be before the International Criminal Court. Yet here is an inconvenient fact: The U.S. has refused to ratify the Rome Statute, which established the ICC. In 2002, Bush signed legislation that authorizes the U.S. to literally conduct military operations in The Hague to liberate any American personnel brought to trial for war crimes. It is indefensible that the U.S. has established a precedent that powerful nations need not be held accountable for their crimes. It is a precedent that Russia knows well, exploits regularly, and will certainly use again and again.
Don't forget set clocks 1 hour ahead tonight USA.
Moscow way ahead of Washington and New York.........by 7 hours on clock!
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?p1=166&p2=179
wglassfo,
In addition to MM link here are 2 others:
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-invasion-chechen-playbook-putin/31738597.html
https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/12/01/russia/syria-war-crimes-month-bombing-aleppo#
I consider unnecessary slaughter of women and children outside of military aims to be a war crime. Don't you? He is doing it again in his Ukraine "military operation".
Putin should be convicted of war crimes. Not sure how there would be an argument that suggests otherwise.
just a thought...
the person who takes out putin will get free drinks for life in any bar in any western country.
Funny bear!
one does wonder how this will end.
