Previous thread on this:
Chinese spy balloon?
47 responses |
Started by metmike - Feb. 3, 2023, 10:52 a.m
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/92806/
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Pentagon officials have said that the balloon's predictable path allowed them to shield sensitive sites from such collection devices.
Ryder also said that by allowing the balloon to cross over numerous sensitive U.S. military sites, the Pentagon was able to learn “a lot more” about the program.
“In terms of where they're coming from, I can't go into the specific location other than to say China, and the last thing I'll say is that this last week provided the United States with a unique opportunity to learn a lot more about the Chinese surveillance balloon program, all information that will help us to continue to strengthen our ability to track these kinds of objects,” Ryder said.
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Propaganda at it's worst.
So according to the above, the Chinese were never actually spying on us. They would never acknowledge that they allowed that to happen.
The Chinese WANTED TO SPY on us but instead, we were blocking it's intelligence gathering capabilities and we were the ones using the balloon to gather information about the spying program and China, not the other way around.
But they said that China has lots of spy balloons like this in the world. I guess we needed one to track across our entire country to learn the real secrets about them (-:
Talk about extreme spin!
Military-San Diego
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/military/story/2023-02-09/chinese-spy-balloon-coronado
ABC’s Martha Raddatz reported that a senior U.S. official had told her that the flights took place over Coronado, as well as Hawaii and Norfolk, Va., which is home of the world’s largest naval station. Bloomberg reported the flyovers over Coronado and Norfolk occurred at a lower altitude over the ocean in U.S. air space, citing unnamed officials who served during the Trump administration, when the incidents reportedly occurred.
When asked to comment on the reports Thursday, a Pentagon spokesperson said that the government would not go beyond the remarks made earlier by Ryder.
San Diego is the homeport of more than 50 warships, including two aircraft carriers and the Zumwalt, one of the newest and most advanced destroyers in the Navy.
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Hugh??
What happened to their earlier statement above:
"officials say they're making this public, something that the intelligence community has historically resisted, because they are trying to pull back the curtain on Chinese spying"
Just more evidence that they are NOT being transparent at all. Just the opposite, once again. They are not telling us what we should know or what we want to know (by answering questions like that one above) but instead they are telling us what they want us to know and think, like the absurd rational that WE were the ones gathering intelligence on the balloon by letting it fly across the country, not the other way around.
The official said the balloon could collect communications signals and was part of a widespread operation from the Chinese military to conduct spying on more than 40 countries across five continents.
They said the U.S. is contacting the countries that have been the targets of the surveillance operations to inform them of China’s activities.
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So the Chinese have been spying on 40 countries across 5 decades for many years and the US on February 9, 2023 is telling us that NOW they going to inform those countries about how China has been spying on them??????
According to them, until this balloon incident, if this statement above is true, the United States allowed China to spy on 40 countries for many years, many of them our allies without sharing the information on a regular basis.
But now, we are supposed to think of them as "Good Samaritans" because they are finally telling them and the world what US intelligence has known for countless years.
Seems like almost every article that one reads on this topic is oozing with blatant propaganda intended to exploit peoples ignorance on this topic and control what they think.
When sources do that, it means the straight truth will not work........OR THEY WOULD THE TRUTH!
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What I would have found believable is if they claimed that they've been in contact with many of those countries that are US allies over the past decade and had numerous substantive, ongoing discussions about the Chinese spy balloons that they just told us have been so prevalent. But then, those countries would have known the US was lying if it wasn't true and we would be able to contact the other countries to confirm it.
So the latest NEW question because of the continued stream of propaganda is why were they NOT telling our allies all this time?
I get that this time was different because of the path of the balloon but if this has been going on for the last decade, with 40 countries having their air space violated on numerous times(including the US previously for short periods) why was there nobody anywhere at any time confronting China over this????
Separately on Thursday, speaking at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing, Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman highlighted the flight of the Chinese balloon as another sign of Beijing's efforts to reshape the international order.
"This irresponsible act put on full display what we've long recognized: that the PRC (People's Republic of China) has become more repressive at home and more aggressive abroad," Sherman told the hearing.
Sherman said Washington would continue to block China from using U.S. technology to advance its military modernization.
"The PRC is the only competitor with the intent and means to reshape the international order," Sherman said, adding that the balloon's violation of U.S. sovereignty and international law was the "latest example of that reality."
China had conducted similar surveillance flights over more than 40 countries on five continents, the official said.
State Department spokesman Ned Price told a briefing later that activity had occurred "over the course of several years."
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Again, known for several years but we just stood by and said nothing.........until now. When I read verbiage like this "The PRC is the only competitor with the intent and means to reshape the international order,"
It rings out the same message the UN is trying to impose on the world thru the pure politics of the Climate Accord and using Ukraine, getting its people/country decimated to have a proxy war with Russia over the same, UN/NATO mentality.
This is extremely, extremely dangerous because if we push Russia into WW-3, China will NOT be on our side, nor will any Middle Eastern countries, which thrive on fossil fuels.
Putin is loving this to pieces because China, in the event of WW-3, might have been on the fence before but they are with Russia now.
In fact, this balloon flight could have very well been done because China (which is smart as heck at looking forward and planning brilliantly) is anticipating WW-3 and is sizing up the US because China will be on the opposite side.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ww3/comments/xwdva1/possible_ww3_sides_thoughts_explanations_in/
![r/ww3 - Possible WW3 Sides. Thoughts? [explanations in comments]](https://preview.redd.it/bgp1jy6eb0s91.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=004ea113570a3b307cf11217bc57de9a9482506d)
metmike: Russia, China, India, the Middle East(oil countries) and several other countries vs the rest of the world.
China knows that the war in Ukraine is escalating. Russia will never back out until it gets what Putin wants. An assurance that Ukraine will NOT join NATO and there is no way that NATO/West/Ukraine will do that.
There are no negotiations, just both sides talking about defeating the other one on the battle field.
This crazy spy balloon incident finally makes sense for the first time from the Chinese side.
China is preparing for war and they plan to be on Russia's side.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/which-countries-believe-wwiii-is-coming/
You will note from the map on the other page, that the countries in red are failing to commit to cuts in fossil fuels by the largest amounts and are the most PRO fossil fuels.
India, China and Russia, the top three methane emitters in the world, have not signed a pledge to reduce the greenhouse gas.
For its part, India, the world's third-largest emitter of carbon, has pledged to reach net-zero carbon emissions by 2070, according to comments made at the summit on Monday by India Prime Minister Narendra Modi. That date is two decades beyond COP26's target.
Neither Russian President Vladimir Putin nor Chinese leader Xi Jinping have been present at the COP26 summit. Biden criticized the leaders for not showing up, as well as for not doing more about climate change
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So preventable. This administration could have urged Ukraine to agree to not Join NATO to prevent the war and used their powerful influence to negotiate and avoid war.
Instead we've become cheerleaders that have elevated the dangerous psychopath, Zelensky to a global hero (absurdly for obliterating his country and people........because he's a NATO/UN puppet that cares much more about his ego and personal interests than his people).
This has allowed the West to have their proxy war with Putin. For the US to support and finance that war and push propaganda to get Americans to support it, when the damages from the war are 1 million times worse than any gains that can be obtained.
That's so far!
If/when this turns into WW3, the damages will be many trillions of times worse or possibly greater than that, than any potential gains.
They had a chance to avoid it all if they'd agreed to not let NATO have Ukraine.
And it's crazy how they are effectively selling it, convincing the NATO countries that this is a really smart way to stop Putin.
If NATO wins the war FOR Ukraine, then Ukraine will get to join NATO. How could this have been worth it to Ukraine? Insanity. And if they lose the war, they don't even get that.
Ironic to scare the people on this planet using a manufactured, fake climate crisis based on a speculative, busted theory that's greening up our world and massively increasing world food production, which is actually SAVING many millions of REAL lives on the REAL planet which is experiencing the best weather/climate for life in the last 1,000 years.
While the same UN/NATO leaders, gate keepers of the propaganda, false narratives, are causing Ukraine to be decimated by a reality that's already killed 250,000 REAL people (soldiers and civilians) with many more added deaths coming in 2023 based on their plans to escalate the war and not negotiate.
If it continues on this path and becomes WW-3, it has the REAL potential to kill a billion REAL people on the REAL planet, worst case scenario.
Zelensky appears to be in a position that will never accept anything except NATO countries arming him more and more and more so that he can fight Russia indefinitely in a war that he can never win in this environment.
He will be forever remembered as the great hero that fought Russia...another Winston Churchill as joj stated.
His historical legacy is tethered to fighting a war with Russia and refusing to give into Putin's demands.
During the last year, he's been elevated and rewarded with powerful global praise and admiration that has locked in the current mindset forever.
as a chess coach for 26 years to 4,100 students, let me tell you something about the indisputable psyche of most males based on their DNA.
at chess tournaments for youth above the age of puberty, 90-95% of the participants are males.
25 out of 27 students above 7th grade signed up above 7th grade are males right now in our upcoming chess tournament:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/92277/
at higher levels, it’s even more unbalanced than that.
Note also that almost all the top players in the championship division finals in the Scholastic Chess Tournament of divisions above the 3rd and under division last month were males:
http://joepye.net/sci/23SCIIndFinal.htm
chess is wide open to everybody and I strongly encourage females to play. I’ve also had several brilliant young lady players….the rest are young men. Don't you dare entertain the idea that I have an iota of male chauvinism in my brain.
There are 0 physical advantages or disadvantages in chess, as in a sport like football. Our junior high and high school shirts state :"sport for the brain".
men are NOT smarter than women but they think different. In fact, that difference relates to them being extremely drawn to playing chess. It’s part of the male brain. It’s a great asset when applying analytical thinking……solving math problems, doing strategies that compete with other human beings and that sort of thing.
however, its a massive fatal flaw when it comes to diplomacy, especially on a global scale.
this is where that potentially brilliant thinking backfires catastrophically and causes women to be the far superior gender. When it comes to diplomacy.
if only women had been every world leader of every country in history, almost every major war would have never happened.
some people consider it testosterone and that is additional fuel to feed the instinctive, genetically driven mentality of the male brain.
males are drawn to chess because it’s a war game featuring 2 armies on a chess board that battle each other…..each side making sacrifices and taking losses as part of their strategy to capture the enemies king.
it was invented over 1,000 years with the pieces representing a war game. The world is amazed that chess, being that old has not just survived against extremely stimulating video games with many bells and whistles but it’s thriving more than ever……with almost all male Players.
profoundly understanding this built in frame of mind allows one to understand why the current leaders and decision makers on both sides of the Ukrainian war are choosing winning on the battle field and not negotiating for peace, when the risk to reward for both sides is 1 million times better for choosing peace.
their brains are programmed for choosing strategies to out manuever competitors, including how to defeat them in war. And they will interpret everything to justify it from the cognitive bias and genetics that define their thinking. Look at the chess tournament results above as profound evidence that this is the scientific truth. Again, there are no chess programs that discriminate against females and there are no physical advantages in chess. It's purely driven by the way the competitors brains work.
when our military leaders and advisors went to military school, did they emphasize diplomacy and avoiding wars?
they teach them strategies to win battles. They go there to learn that. Then they are promoted to high level positions in the military because of their ability to out strategize other males ….almost no females.
it completely defines who they are, how they think and that determines their advice to their country when its competing with other countries in the global sphere.
and the rest of the male brains making most of the decisions leading their countries suffer from the exact same fatal flaw!
they often choose war over peace when peace could have easily been achieved by leaders that had female brains.
add in great power and ego, which greatly amplifies and reinforces the potential rewards of this type of thinking and you have the exact recipe for war.
this is 0% speculation but instead based on solid science and me observing it in the male brain every single year for 26 years.
this is also the reason that the world is currently marching towards WW3, when many people think they would not really be that insane….to lose so much in order to accomplish a political agenda worth a minuscule fraction of the risk.
they can’t help it!!
NO HUMAN KNOWS FOR SURE, BUT... THE ANSWERS TO EVERYTHING WERE WRITTEN MANY YEARS AGO.... WE JUST NEED TO INTERPRET THEM, FACTUALLY.
FOR STARTERS: FOR THE PAST 60 YEARS, I'VE SAID THAT IF I WERE TO LIVE A NORMAL LIFE SPAN ~ I BELIEVE I WILL SEE THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. (I'VE HAD A FEW CLOSE CALLS, BUT ~ I'M STILL KICKIN'! LOL)
Does the Bible say anything about Russia in relation to the end times?
(THERE'S A SHORT VIDEO INCLUDED WITH HIGHLIGHTS OF THE ARTICLE.)
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Thanks Jean,
I'm not saying that this will be the end of the world or even if there will be WW3, just explaining what is happening, the direction that it's leading and proving why its happening because of how the male brain works.
I'm not an elite chess player. The kids in high school are mostly better than me. However, I know how to help them get better and provide opportunities at that level and THEY make themselves better.
Regardless, 26 years of observation of my own kids and all the other young adults in the state of Indiana at the championship level playing chess is empirical data/observations that trump everything else.
Men cause wars because of how they think. They are driven by the indisputable, innately profound thoughts of male brains that can't be turned off. It defines their core thinking which often trumps objective information.
Men are totally driving the really bad decisions right now in our world that are causing most of the conflicts and much of it is based on this dynamic that I describe.
It's been that way since humans existed.
The worst thing that we can do in situations, where leadership roles are held by people with any history of corruption is to give that male brain absolute power.
That's exactly the situation with the leaders of Russia, Ukraine and China right now. They are not being motivated by compassion for their people or diplomacy from a female brain's point of view.
This is about being given the unfettered ability to fulfill their male brains innate drive from the time they were born to out strategize and defeat others, this time on a global scale because that's how they were created and they managed to work hard to obtain the power to do it with impunity.
People in their country and on this planet are just human pawns in a war game being conducted with a male brain.
Step back and look at 250,000 people killed in this latest war and ask if that was worth Ukraine having the right to join NATO, even if the war ended tomorrow?
They were just human pawns and we are being brain washed by diabolical propaganda convincing us that this was/is the right thing to do.
For who? It was the absolute worse thing to do to Ukraine X 1 million and now we are embarking on a potential 1 trillion+ damages compared to not letting Ukraine join NATO. All because we believe the propaganda justifying it.
joj, you know this is true.
LOL AND, GOD THOUGHT: "WHAT????????!!!!!!" THEN CREATED WOMAN. LOL
SADLY, WOMAN IS TRYING TO COMPETE ~ OUT-DO MAN.
ANYHOOOOOOOO ~ THIS GUY IS FIRED UP >>>>>> ‘They’re Testing Us!’: GOP Lawmaker Excoriates China Over Spy Balloon Incident
Thanks, Jean!
I understand completely what this guy is saying and having been adjusting my position to this more than likely being a spy balloon but let's step back for a minute and stop believing the rhetoric, some of it false without thinking about it.
Consider this:
Why did 9-11-01 work so well?
Because we had no idea the planning was taking place and were caught off guard with no safe guards in place BEFORE it happened.
After that, people were afraid to fly but the truth is, after 9-11, flying in the US was by an extremely wide margin the safest time to fly in history. This is true only because 9-11 woke us up and we needed to be prepared.
The most dangerous time to fly was BEFORE 9-11 and people just never knew it. The terrorists operated in secrecy and that's how they were successful. If the same people had crashed a plane into a small building somewhere to test us and drawn attention to themselves, an investigation might have uncovered their bigger plot. They were trying to stay under the radar/undetected.
Fast forward to 2023. Why would China do this to test us? The main effect, by an extraordinarily wide margin has been to put us on extremely high alert for anything like this in the future. You get just one chance to catch your adversary off guard and unprepared with something they didn't know about. The 2nd time, it will never be as effective because the adversary.........will adjust their plans to dial in the possibility of it happening again.
This guy and others make a case for a balloon like this to be able to carry nuclear and other weapons.
If that's the case, then China just did us a huge favor. Who really thinks that the Chinese will think that next time, they will be able to do the same thing because we failed the test this time.
Just the polar, 100% opposite. What the Chinese just did, is ensure that they will never be able to do this again. Anybody claiming otherwise is just babbling political bs.
There would be other reasons, one of which I'm entertaining is to gather data on our communications networks to kick our arse in a cyber war.
They might only need 1 time thru the US to get most of the data they need. The absurd assertion that we were protecting our sensitive data and WE were learning from the balloon is laughable.
https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/china
Sadly, we can't trust what we're being told because all it tells us is what they WANT US TO THINK.
The U.S. government isn’t wasting time in punching back at the breach. A State Department official on Thursday said the U.S. is exploring options to take action against the Chinese military and entities supporting the balloon spying operation. Washington will also seek to further expose the Chinese global surveillance campaign, the official said.
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Like the previous point, why would the Chinese tip off the US and the world with a massive balloon like this that millions could see with our naked eyes crossing the US if they want to keep it a secretive operation????
U.S. lawmakers are demanding new action from the Biden administration after the Thursday revelations that the balloon possessed antennas to collect communications signals and solar panels to power its sensors.
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Since when are high altitude weather balloons used for longer studies not able to use solar panels to power their flight and instruments? When they site bs like this to suggest evidence of it being a spy balloon, it makes me very skeptical of stuff that we can't possibly know and they can just make up.
I DON'T HAVE TIME, RIGHT NOW, TO SAY WHAT I WANNA SAY, BUT.... HOW MANY YEARS OF HI-HACKING JETS DID IT TAKE FOR THE GOVT. TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?!
A FRIEND OF MINE WAS IN ONE OF THOSE HI-JACKED JETS.
LATER, GATOR
"The worst thing that we can do in situations, where leadership roles are held by people with any history of corruption is to give that male brain absolute power.
That's exactly the situation with the leaders of Russia, Ukraine and China right now. They are not being motivated by compassion for their people or diplomacy from a female brain's point of view."
You left out the leaders of the US!!
Thanks cutworm,
I understand your point as individuals/groups in the US with the most power are the most likely to abuse that power, especially groups that have no accountability and transparency.........like our CIA and other unelected bureaucrats, that can have covert operations to do things in secret based on their political objective.........like blow up a Russian natural gas pipeline. Or do fraudulent investigations and also cover up corruption based on political agenda.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/92953/
Fortunately, in the US we still have a system of checks and balances that lessens 1 individual's power.
Doesn't stop abuse but helps control it compared to some countries.
https://blog.prepscholar.com/checks-and-balances-definition-examples
