https://www.wate.com/news/tennessee/who-voted-to-expel-the-tennessee-three/
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (WATE) — On Thursday, the Tennessee House of Representatives voted to expel two of the “Tennessee Three.” Here is who voted on the resolutions.
Earlier this week, Rep. Gloria Johnson explained to WATE that the three representatives were facing potential expulsion for breaking a rule by speaking on the floor without permission for 20 seconds before a recess was called. Johnson also said she did not regret what she had done, rather, she knew she did the right thing and it was worth it.
The three occupied the well to acknowledge the students and parents who were at the Tennessee General Assembly to protest gun violence following a mass shooting at a Nashville school that left six people dead, including three children, according to Johnson.
Each of the three resolutions required a two-thirds vote, or 66 votes in favor, to pass.
The state House used its power to expel only three times in its long history.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tennessee-lawmaker-expulsions-happened/story?id=98428926
https://www.wsmv.com/2023/04/07/tennessee-three-why-did-one-lawmaker-survive-expulsion-vote/
“It might have to do with the color of our skin,” Rep. Gloria Johnson said after being asked why she survived the expulsion vote while her colleagues did not.
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The facts prove that she made that up to play the race card.
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The votes were recorded as follows
Former Rep. Justin Jones
Rep. Gloria Johnson
Former Rep. Justin Pearson
He said Rep. Johnson did not appear to do anything other than stand near the Well and move her lips, while Jones and Pearson were the two who used a bullhorn to “shout and scream.”
"Rep. Russell said he made his decision to keep Rep. Johnson in the House because she did not participate in protests in the same way as former Reps. Jones and Pearson did. While Johnson needs to be censored for her unacceptable conduct that day, the evidence presented did not warrant her expulsion,” Rep. Russell said. “Had all three participated the same, I would have voted to expel all three.”
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. The white person avoided expulsion by 1 vote. The white person did NOT participate in using the bull horn which is the biggest infraction here. The white person claims the black men were targeted because of race.
I use a personal bull horn every Thursday at 1 of my chess practices that has 60+ children, spread out across the cafeteria. The school has one but I like mine better. If the microphone isn't working at my Friday practice with over 100 students in the cafeteria, my megaphone does does the trick.
It's the only way to communicate to such a large group and be heard without yelling at the top of my lungs and sounding like a maniac.
A bull horn amplifies your voice by over 10 times when cranked up. It's extremely effective at communicating, especially when used productively in the right setting. We don't know what level this bullhorn was set at but have to assume it was intentionally very loud.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone
When I initially heard about what they did, I was strongly on their side, standing up for this important cause because I totally agree with their position. Something needs to be done to address this MAJOR problem (ban sales of certain kinds of guns and require mandatory background checks, for instance).
I saw the facts and the reason and the voting but still STRONGLY agreed with them........initially.
Then the white lady claimed it was racial.
This obliterated her credibility for me. Now, she's using these circumstances to bring in the race card ON A GUN ISSUE!!! When the authentic facts show it was based on the use of the bullhorn
People will see 2 black men kicked out and the white woman saved and listen to her, because the entire nation is listening to what these 3 people are saying right now.
She took her minute of fame to bring race into a gun issue. I totally understand that racism exists in this country and was raised to believe strongly in racial/minority justice/equality while growing up in Detroit.
However, if you want to make race relations WORSE........ do exactly what she just did.
Wrong issue and wrong evidence.
So I started thinking more about what it must have been like in the chambers based on my personal experience using a bull horn for an hour every week on Thursdays.
They obviously conduct business as usual with a microphone set at a level so that everybody in the room can hear at a comfortable level.
In a setting indoors like this, a bullhorn can be extremely offensive and even hurt your ears if the setting is high enough.
I would guess that if you really wanted to maximize riling up people that you disagree with and express personal rage for not getting your way and completely alienate them instead of having a rational discussion..........this would be exactly the best way to do it.
Put another way. How many of their colleagues, subjected to this incident, were inspired to do some soul searching to reach authentic discernment?
You know the answer is 0!
This is the recipe for divisiveness and for how you turn people that you disagree with into enemies! It's exactly what's wrong with this country.
Not accepting decisions because the other side has more votes or because you know you're right and they're wrong.
Can you say........2020 presidential election and Insurrection.
Of course Jan 6th was 1 million times worse. However, these 3 were applying the exact same flawed principle.
Personally, I would have penalized them with something less than expulsions but they should NOT be rewarded for very counter productive, unprofessional and disrespectful behavior, acting out because they didn't like the rules of the majority voting against them.
That's how our democracy works. Whether its presidential elections or in the Tennessee House.
They claim to be representing the people. So was Trump when he tried to overturn the 2020 election.
Unfortunately, when the other side gets more votes or reps than you, sometimes, it's winner takes all on specific issues and/or who fills the seat. Then they get more power than the side that lost, even all the power sometimes. That's what our Constitution/Democracy is based on.
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Again, I strongly agree with the position of these 3 when it comes to guns and that they should have had a less severe penalty. However, they absolutely should have had a penalty for this very offensive, alienating behavior in an environment that requires intelligent, elected people using authentic facts and respect to communicate as adults with THE SAME VOLUME.
Not people that hijack the floor and drown out everybody they disagree with using a powerful amplifying device designed for large venues to speak over huge crowds to control them. ..........and then blame race for the over reaction of their opponents.
Although like you I agree very much with those three on the gun violence issue, I also agree with much of what you said here. Not expelling just the white person of the three doesn't appear racist to me based on what you said. In addition, the "sample size" of three is way too small to allow for generalization and assume there was racism.
But what if there'd been a much larger number than three involved? Let's say there had been 20 reps involved, 19 black and one white, and say that all 19 blacks were expelled and the one white weren't. Bullhorn or no bullhorn regarding the white, I'd then probably get suspicious that there may have been racism involved.
Whereas I don't nearly always agree with you on issues in general and on some things even vehemently disagree, I do like that you take a nuanced approach on many things, including here, and are very thoughtful. Most people seem to do the opposite thanks to tribalism and are thus pretty predictable on most issues. When you post about an issue, I look forward to seeing what you're going to say because it is often unpredictable.
Intelligent, respectful adults don't shout you down with megaphones, especially indoors when there is a debate.
They bring authentic facts used to make their points with the same volume as those they disagree with........like these posts below from the last several months here at MarketForum.
Re: Bodycam footage shows police confronting Nashville shooter
Previous thread:
By metmike - March 28, 2023, 10:03 p.m.
Shooting in Denver
Started by metmike - March 24, 2023, 12:30 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/94031/
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
https://everytownresearch.org/issue/child-teen-safety/
Monterey Park mass shooting
25 responses |
Started by metmike - Jan. 24, 2023, 1:22 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/92441/
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/23/politics/mass-shootings-in-2023-what-matters/index.html
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/971473/number-k-12-school-shootings-us/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5296697/
https://www.columbiapsychiatry.org/news/mass-shootings-and-mental-illness
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/31/1032932257/hate-crimes-reach-the-highest-level-in-more-than-a-decade
The report also points out that Black Americans remained the most targeted group in terms of hate crimes.
By DAVID KLEPPEROctober 12, 2022
We should note that people mainly only consider hate to be significant when the hate comes from groups of the opposite party. When groups driven by hate from their own political party commit heinous acts, it's often seen as justified because they represent an agenda that's fighting for something important to them.
Below:
Justified for a political agenda by one group, with the reality being a Summer of widespread destruction, deaths and injuries to countless innocent victims inspired by HATE!
Others see what it really was!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_racial_unrest
| 2020 United States racial unrest | |
|---|---|
.jpg)  .jpg) .jpg)   .png) |
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On the other side
https://people.com/politics/dc-protest-photos-us-capitol-pro-trump-riots/
January 6th, 2001. . An unprecedented attack on our Capital building, elected officials and democracy.....violent Insurrection. Totally inspired by treasonous President Trump and his attempt to overturn the results of the most secure presidential election in history. Even causing republicans to HATE Mike Pence enough to chant about hanging him.
Seen by some republicans as not really that bad. More like a bunch of routy tourists that got lost and a bit out of control but basically harmless..........and that it wasn't Trump but the FBI that intentionally caused it to frame Trump(seriously, Tucker claims this)
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https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/90985/
“I’m not a hero, I’m just some dude,” Richard Fierro said.
The suspect died from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/virginia-walmart-shooting/?id=93848263
https://efsgv.org/press/study-two-thirds-of-mass-shootings-linked-to-domestic-violence/
https://rockinst.org/gun-violence/mass-shooting-factsheet/
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-09-01/mass-shooting-data-odessa-midland-increase
https://www.washingtonpost.com › nation › 2022/06/02
Jun 2, 2022
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/02/mass-shootings-in-2022/
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-09-01/mass-shooting-data-odessa-midland-increase
By metmike - Nov. 23, 2022, 10:21 p.m.
Thanks Jean,
This is a huge problem and you can find all sorts of discussions about it.
I am certain that this is a major contributor and also provides huge clues from shooters BEFORE they commit the crime.
Captured brains
15 responses |
Started by metmike - April 10, 2021, 12:32 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/67714/
https://marymount.edu/blog/alumnus-completes-study-on-predicting-mass-shootings-from-social-media/
++++++++++++++++
metmike: Just like with the previous page, there are people that say the exact opposite:
Increasing surveillance of students wouldn’t just be ineffective, it would also be harmful.
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Study by UNLV online misinformation expert analyzes conservative, liberal Twitter reactions to U.S. gun violence.
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So the point is not that I can post a zillion articles here. There are 1,000 times more out there, with compelling evidence to make the case.
This was a very counterproductive attention seeking stunt in my opinion. They even got the VP of the United States, who has no accomplishments to her credit, to make a personal appearance down there to get in on the positive publicity generated, in order to score points with her political base..........amplifying the divisiveness.
The poll below is for the entire United States. In national votes/issues, this is the key and people will elect do reflect that. In the state of Tennessee they see things differently and the Constitution gives every state the power to write their own laws!
The survey below is for ALL Americans. We should assume that the Rs in TN, have similar views to those below...........which means they get their way on the issues below when there's a huge disparity.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/gun-control-polling-2022/
With the responses to the top 3 questions, Ds and Rs agree pretty strongly.
77% of Republican and 91% of Democratic respondents said they “strongly” or “somewhat” support universal background checks, a difference of 14 percentage points.
85% of Republican and 90% of Democratic respondents said they “strongly” or “somewhat” favor preventing people with mental illnesses from buying guns, a difference of 5 percentage points.
70% of Republican and 85% of Democratic respondents said they “strongly” or “somewhat” support red-flag laws, a difference of 15 percentage points.
D's in TN get crushed on the next 3 issues below in the state of TN
37% of Republican and 83% of Democratic respondents said they “strongly” or “somewhat” favor banning assault weapons, a difference of 46 percentage points.
24% of Democratic and 66% of Republican respondents said they “strongly” or “somewhat” favor arming K-12 teachers, a difference of 42 percentage points.
34% of Republican and 87% of Democratic respondents said they were “very” or “somewhat” confident that stricter gun laws would reduce mass shootings, a difference of 53 percentage points.
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28% of Democratic and 48% of Republican respondents said they have a gun in their house, a difference of 20 percentage points.
9% of Democratic and 39% of Republican respondents said they believe the right to own guns is more important than protecting people from gun violence, a difference of 30 percentage points.
The
CONSTITUTION
of the
STATE
of
TENNESSEE
https://www.capitol.tn.gov/about/docs/tn-constitution.pdf
Tennessee is one of the most conservative states in the US.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-conservative-states
But what if there'd been a much larger number than three involved? Let's say there had been 20 reps involved, 19 black and one white, and say that all 19 blacks were expelled and the one white weren't. Bullhorn or no bullhorn regarding the white, I'd then probably get suspicious that there may have been racism involved.
Thanks for the compliment and comments, Larry.
Actually, the way that you put it made it especially wonderful!
I agree in the case above from you that IF the dynamic was more like your example, then it might be more racist.
To be honest, before I saw the actual votes and reasoning, I quickly assumed that because it was the South and the 2 guys expelled were doing what I remember being the "black power" symbol when I was growing up that it must have been racist. Especially since the white lady not expelled said that it was racist.
And to be honest, there is still part of me that really wants to think that, including that if these were all white people, many none of them would have been expelled and the margin would have not even been close.
This is very possible but we have to let the authentic facts speak for themselves not what we think based on knowing there's still racism in the South.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/04/tennessee-abortion-trump-gop-loves-losing
The GOP turned three Tennessee Democrats into celebrities, the unpopular antiabortion crackdown is still in full force, and the party is rallying around an indicted Donald Trump. What politically disastrous decision will Republicans make next?
Republicans also targeted a third state representative, Gloria Johnson, but couldn’t muster the votes to expel her. Why? As Johnson told CNN, “I think it’s pretty clear: I’m a 60-year-old white woman. And they are two young Black men.” It was blatant racism, and it immediately elevated the legislators to celebrity status.
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I agree strongly with the author on most of her article.
However, her twisting this into "blatant racism" is very offensive to me and others that know the facts. It's very COUNTER productive to using it for progress to help the real issue they were raising "gun control".
It does a tremendous amount of damage to a state and people for a reason that is completely unjustified. Sadly, false propaganda is what drives people's understanding of what they think is going on in the world in 2024!
Molly and others like her, wreck their objective credibility in my eyes. Showing that she cares most about exploiting any situation possible, even a fraudulent one for political agenda.
The problem with people like that is that you can never tell when they have authentic positions or not because they don't have a code of ethics when playing politics. Whatever works is whatever they use.
Is she just ignorant of the authentic facts and sincerely believes this? Sure. People like that do just as much damage as people that intentionally lie!
She's right on the money about Trump and the abortion pill.
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Rep. Steve Cohen(D-Tenn.) said Sunday that the recent expulsions of two Democratic Black state lawmakers was an “embarrassment” for the state, but argued it was “more of a control issue than racist.”
“I’ve had many people contact me through emails and phone calls saying how they never thought Tennessee was this type of state, that we were different. Now they put us in the bottom rank of states and they find this to be objectionable, and it certainly has a racist appearance. I think it was more of a control issue than racist. But it was just too heavy handed,” Cohen said.
"Members of the Congressional Black Caucus also condemned the Tennessee House for the move. “The targeted expulsions of Rep. Justin Jones and Rep. Justin Pearson – two Black duly elected members representing minority districts – makes clear that racism is alive and well in Tennessee,” it said in a statement."
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https://www.wsaz.com/2023/04/07/kamala-harris-meet-with-expelled-tennessee-lawmakers/
“Rather than debating the merits of the issue (of gun control), these Republican lawmakers have chosen to punish, silence, and expel duly-elected representatives of the people of Tennessee,” Biden said in a Thursday statement."
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So that's what these people with a bullhorn call debating? It's the 100% polar opposite of what Biden just said. These 3 lost the REAL debate and vote because Rs have the super majority in Tennessee and our democracy gives those Rs the voting power to execute laws based on what their party and voters want defined by our Democracy/Constitution with individual states. Yeah, it really stinks when you are the small minority party but that's the core principle that our country was founded on.
Doing what these 3 did, hijacking the proceeding to protest this way is violating their committment to abide by the Constitution of Tennessee which I assume they swore to uphold.
There are people from 49 other states reading about Tennessee right now that think their gun laws are wrong and these 3 protesters are right. I agree with them but I have no rights in TENNESSEE and these 3 people violated the rules of TENNESSEE legislation because they don't want to uphold their commitment to voters. Not to voters that they agree with or from just their district. To their STATE.
But the laws and Constitution are the laws for EACH STATE. The only thing that matters is TENNESSEE laws based on how people in TENNESSEE voted.
And I say this being pretty passionate in agreeing with the need to ban the most dangerous weapons and do universal background checks.
This actually just part of a MUCH bigger issue.
Banning assault weapons and doing universal background checks will have a minuscule impact to cut down homicides/crime.
It's retarded to NOT do this by the Rs because its clear it will help a bit but Ds spend the majority of time battling over this, while completely neglecting more important crime issues..........even pushing movements to "defund the police" Like that's going to help reduce crime/homicides or mass shootings.
And to tarnish/vilify all law enforcement because of very isolated incidents by bad cops.
I found this enlightening.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
Crime in the United States has been recorded since its founding. Crime rates have varied over time, with a sharp rise after 1900 and reaching a broad bulging peak between the 1970s and early 1990s. After 1992, crime rates began to fall year by year and have since declined significantly. This trend lasted until 2015, when crime rates began to rise slightly. This reversed in 2018 and 2019, but violent crime increased significantly again in 2020.[1][2]Homicide rate in the U.S. continues to be high, with four major U.S. cities ranked among the 50 cities with the highest homicide rate in the world in 2019. Despite the increase in violent crime, particularly murders, between 2020 and 2021, the quantity of overall crime is still far below the peak of crime seen in the United States during the late 1980s and early 1990s, as other crimes such as rape, property crime and robbery continued to decline.[3][4] The aggregate cost of crime in the United States remains high, with an estimated value of $4.9 trillion reported in 2021
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Property crime rates in the United States per 100,000 population beginning in 1960. Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics.
Total incarceration in the United States by year
We should note that Blacks are the victims of homicides at 5 times the rate of whites. This is a metric 100 times more powerful than gun laws. Note the graph below.
49% of white households have guns below
32% of black households have guns below.
However, the homicide rate for blacks is 5 times higher. Why are the Ds completely ignoring this fact and putting all their eggs in the gun control basket?
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/
Back to the earlier link:
As of 2001, the lifetime likelihood of ever going to prison for various demographic groups, by percentages
The reason for this is mostly because of the 7 times higher violent crime rate of young black males.
Reducing that would have the biggest positive impact by an extremely wide margin! This is also the biggest reason for the much higher rates of serious confrontations between cops, trying to enforce laws and violent criminals. Cops are well aware of this stat on the street and it causes some to have bad assumptions. This is getting better and police ARE becoming more transparent and accountable. If you haven't noticed, you aren't looking.
Now for the biggest problem and solutions:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Using statistics to lie and smear cops
By metmike - June 22, 2020, 8:59 p.m.
More than 20 million children live in a home without the physical presence of a father. Millions more have dads who are physically present, but emotionally absent. If it were classified as a disease, fatherlessness would be an epidemic worthy of attention as a national emergency.
http://fathers.com/statistics-and-research/the-extent-of-fatherlessness/
African-American family structure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure
Out of wedlock birth rates by race in the United States from 1940-2014. Rate for African Americans is the purple line. Data is from the National Vital Statistics System Reports published by the CDCNational Center for Health Statistics. Note: Prior to 1969, African American illegitimacy was included along with other minority groups as "Non-White.
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THE SOLUTION:
Re: Using statistics to lie and smear cops
By metmike - June 12, 2020, 7:56 p.m.
minneapolis planning to disband the police
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/53339/#53388
Young black males commit violent crimes at a rate(in the study that I sourced a couple of year ago) 6 times higher than young white males. Being raised without a good male role model has alot to do with that. Would taking away welfare cause young black men to suddenly metamorphose into responsible fathers and husbands?
Maybe you think that young black women would stop having sexual relationships or use better protection if there was no welfare.
Turns out that black women actually abort more babies than they raise in many big cities and many of them raise those children without husbands. If they are having those children because it gets them welfare, then we must assume that no welfare would result in a higher black abortion rate.
The welfare system is not the main problem in this case. Changing the culture requires outside help. These people on welfare and in the inner cities that were raised by single parents(moms) or in dysfunctional families, don't have the understanding or blue prints to know how to be good parents(especially the men) or how to be successful in life.
There has to be something that interrupts the repeating, viscous cycle via the education system or thru local organizations that connect with vulnerable children, starting at young age to teach them.
I strongly believe that good parenting classes in high school should be mandatory, especially in low income areas with single parent families. Can you teach love? This is not about religion but that's exactly what the 4 Gospels of Jesus did. .....and its blossomed into Christianity that has profoundly changed the world for the much better. What I'm suggesting is ethics classes combined with parenting classes. The principles go hand in hand. Teach children to respect others, the value of human life and what a good parent and spouse should be doing in a successful relationship. Have people in their community(ideally from their neighborhood) come in to share their positive experiences as dad's/husbands and mothers/wifes.
With absolute certainty, this would have a profoundly positive affect on many children in dysfunctional families.
https://education.seattlepi.com/would-mandatory-parenting-classes-schools-good-idea-1803.html
Teaching at school can only do so much. What happens when they leave school to a bad neighborhood with a bad parent(s)?
A high % of bad black fathers are in prison. This is another topic altogether but it's another golden opportunity for other men, regardless of color to step forward and be mentors, role models or good examples. This is absolutely realistic.
How would that work? First you identify the men. Many will be from the suburbs, many, will be older and will have already raised their own children successfully. Some will be very young and want to have a family but haven't found the right partner yet. I have recruited men like this to be my basketball, soccer and baseball coaches(mostly the younger ones for sports). If you offered money, you will get more than just volunteers but most people like this don't do it for money. There needs to be screening, background checks and child protection classes to avoid predators/pedophiles that will weasel into programs like this to abuse boys.
Men, filling in as a positive father figures/ideally foster parents(even if they are paid) will and do make a difference in most of these boys lives. The younger the child, the better chance to connect with them before the bad things in the world surrounding them define who they are:
https://www.fosterfocusmag.com/articles/just-foster-dads-part-1
Forget about the welfare or no welfare issue or government, no government's role. Either situation is a recipe for failure if you don't have responsible adults that understand what it takes to be good parents applying their love and skills to the at risk, vulnerable children.
Most parents and spouses learned about parenting/married life from being their parents children.
We spend billions of dollars on the education system but fail to educate and prepare children for the most important role they will ever have as adults.
If these are such great idea's why aren't are paid politicians and government on to it?
Our politicians and government don't work for us much of the time and their ideas are usually not creative unless it ties in with something that will help them get elected........promises to give people things like reparations for blacks or free health care or free college. ....or to save the planet(sorry if that offends anybody from one party-but if you look at my belief system today, its the one that defined the democrats from the old days-which included me).
Being a good parent(and citizen) is several orders of magnitude more important to individuals/families and society than actions to address a fake climate crisis........even if there was a climate crisis. "
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Another thing that would help that is not being discussed, to go along with better training of cops(that HAS been happening and HAS been effective already across the nation) is to encourage them to be more of a part of positive endeavors in the black communities that they enforce laws in.
The benefits are 2 fold. The more officers that you have coming to local schools for instance, to interact in a positive way with students, the more trust that you will build in them. They ARE good people. This is being done in most communities already but there is usually a designated "Officer Friendly" and just 1 or 2 people that go to all the schools.
Most of the other cops are out there battling crime. They get bombarded all day long with real life negative experiences with criminals. After awhile, human nature, common sense/analytical thinking and street smarts working together create a cognitive bias in them...........stereotyping young black males. This leads to profiling. It can lead to them disrespecting a group that shows the most disrespect to them. The training they receive has to overcome human nature on their part which is telling their brains to judge the people based on their observations.
This can be offset when officers establish relationships and involvement in those same communities with the vast majority of blacks who are upstanding citizens. This can help balance their view.............to connect with the good side in a personal way and not always just the bad side. Have cops spend a few days in a positive environment with good people in the same community to balance all the negatives.
How about you and me try to imagine the life of an inner city cop, where violent crime is rampant and they are constantly risking their lives to arrest violent criminals who often resist physically and very often are verbally abusive. Of course that's their job. They signed up for that and know what they are getting and should be prepared for it, right?
Still, they are human beings..........almost every one of them good human beings and very few of them racist but more, them being affected by the challenging environments they work in.
