Three days before Jan. 6, 2021, U.S. House Sergeant at Arms Paul Irving rejected Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund’s request for National Guard help because Mr. Irving said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) would “never go for it,” the now-former police chief testified before a House subcommittee on Sept. 19.
Mr. Sund’s revelation came during a 90-minute hearing before the Committee on House Administration’s Subcommittee on Oversight.
In his first testimony before a House committee since he was forced to resign his position on Jan. 8, 2021, Mr. Sund detailed his deep frustration at not getting the National Guard help that would have been a “game changer” on Jan. 6, 2021.
Steven Sund's opening remarks at hearing on Jan 6 Security
The whole testimony here
Former Capitol Police Chief Testifies on January 6 Security Failures |C-SPAN.org
Thanks much cutworm!
You bet it was preventable.
If Trump had NOT fired up his base with 2 months of almost daily, complete lies about the election being stolen from him and how they had to act in order to take back our country. Over and over and over.
Then additional riot inciting words on January 6th. He also called off all the metal detectors that day, claiming "they aren't here to hurt me"
Then for 187 minutes (just over 3 hours) after the riots started, Trump refused to call his rioters off. Instead, enjoying it from the cameras in his office and replaying it numerous times because he liked what he saw so much.
He refused for those 3+ hours to call for any additional security because he wanted the riot to continue as long as possible.
Blaming law enforcement instead of the criminal, Donald Trump here is like an armed robbery of a bank where somebody gets shot, resulting in the security guards going on trial and getting all the blame for not stopping the crime, while the armed robber is declared innocent because they were just exercising their right to get money they thought was theirs.
Could security done a better job?
Of course they could have but everybody underestimated how diabolical a president of the United States could be in blatantly abusing his power to incite the riot.
For more than 187 deadly minutes, Trump watched his armed mob take over the Capitol and did nothing about it.
On January 6, 2021, Donald Trump sent an armed mob to the Capitol. Then, he refused repeated requests to call it off—for more than 187 deadly minutes.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/january-6-hearing-day-8-187-minutes-of-trumps-inaction/
++++++++++++
In case your rejecting it because it's not coming from a source telling you what you want to believe. Even the NY Post condemned him!
https://nypost.com/2022/07/21/jan-6-committee-to-dive-into-trumps-actions-during-riot/
“Within 15 minutes of leaving the stage, President Trump knew that the Capitol was besieged and under attack,” Luria said, adding: “At 1:25, President Trump went to the private dining room off the Oval Office. From 1:25 until 4:00, the president stayed in his dining room … The TV was tuned to Fox News all afternoon.”
“Other witnesses confirmed that President Trump was in the dining room with the TV on for more than two and a half hours,” she went on. “There was no official record of what President Trump did while in the dining room.”
The narrative was interspersed with footage of violence at the Capitol that was being beamed around the world on cable news channels.
Ten minutes later, the lawmaker added, “as the DC police at the same time were declaring a riot at the Capitol … [Trump] tweeted out a link to the recording of his Ellipse speech. This was the same speech in which he knowingly sent an armed mob to the Capitol. But President Trump made no comment about the lawlessness and the violence.”
Trump called Giuliani again at 2:03 p.m., ten minutes before rioters broke into the Capitol building itself.
While the president appeared absorbed by the action, former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone described in a recent taped deposition that was played at the hearing that an array of White House officials implored him to call for an end to the mob violence immediately.
“I said people need to be told — there needs to be a public announcement fast that they need to leave the Capitol,” Cipollone said.
“[McEnany] looked directly at me and in a hushed tone shared with me that the president did not want to include any sort of mention of peace in that tweet, and that it took some convincing on their part,” Matthews said.
In addition to Trump’s “off-the-cuff” video statement from 4:17 p.m. that one press aide, Judd Deere, described as the “absolute bare minimum of what could have been said at that point,” the hearing also highlighted Trump’s tweet from 6:01 p.m. that appeared to glorify the violence as it subsided.
That Trump tweetsaid, “These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!”
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-J6-REPORT/html-submitted/ch7.html
By 1:21 p.m., President Trump was informed that the Capitol was under attack. He could have interceded immediately. But the President chose not to do so. It was not until 4:17 p.m. that President Trump finally tweeted a video in which he told the rioters to go home.
The 187 minutes between the end of President Trump’s speech and when he finally told the mob to leave the U.S. Capitol was a dereliction of duty. In the U.S. military, a service member is deemed to be “derelict in the performance of duties when that person willfully or negligently fails to perform that person’s duties or when that person performs them in a culpably inefficient manner.” 2 As Commander-in-Chief, President Trump had the power—more than any other American—to muster the U.S. Government’s resources and end the attack on the U.S. Capitol. He willfully remained idle even as others, including his own Vice President, acted.
President Trump could have called top officials at the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the F.B.I., the Capitol Police Department, or the DC Mayor’s Office to ensure that they quelled the violence. He made no such calls. Instead, President Trump reached out to Rudolph Giuliani and friendly Members of Congress, seeking their assistance in delaying the joint session of Congress. And the President tweeted at 2:24 p.m., at the height of the violence, that his own Vice President lacked the “courage” to act—a statement that could only further enrage the mob. Meanwhile, Vice President Michael Pence assumed the duties of the President, requesting the assistance of top officials, even though he was not in the chain of command and had no constitutional power to issue orders.
I actually could have provided hundreds of links with similar and additional AUTHENTIC information.
In fact, I've already done that as shown below!
This one, like the others will make no difference.
By metmike - May 20, 2023, 12:32 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/95310/#95325
2. Insurrection lies
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/93637/
Extremely DANGEROUS enemIES of the people!
12 responses |
Started by metmike - March 7, 2023, 8:25 p.m.
Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer also condemned Carlson's comments Tuesday, saying, "Last night millions of Americans tuned into one of the most shameful hours we have ever seen on cable television."
Later in the day, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said: "With regard to the presentation on Fox News last night, I want to associate myself entirely with the opinion of the Chief of the Capitol police about what happened on January 6."
++++++++++++++++++++++
Tucker should be fired immediately for such an outrageous/blatant, intentional and very dangerous violation of the truth in describing the worst attack on our Constitution in history as "peaceful" to brainwash his viewers and for ratings, telling them what they want to believe and suggesting it was actually all set up by the FBI to frame President Trump........who was innocent of any wrong doing.
This is way over the top and beyond freedom of the press rights protection because, literally, 10s of millions of viewers(captured brains) believe everything that he says.
Tonight on his show, he is arrogantly gloating and manically bragging over the attention that he's getting for being television's biggest piece of crap in broadcast history.
However, the way that Fox in the evening gets ratings, he is more likely to demand a pay raise for boosting his ratings than to be held accountable.
By metmike - March 7, 2023, 8:57 p.m.
Following Tucker's off the charts biggest violation of the truth in broadcast history on a major network during prime time last night, Hannity followed it up with Trump.
+++++++++++++++
Hannity trooper bs/Tucker FBI bs
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/90750/#90831
+++++++++++++
Indisputable, 100% proven fact: President Trump spent 2 months convincing tens of millions of Rs that he won the election but it was stolen from him. He did countless unethical things, including likely illegal activities in trying to overturn the election. He fired up his extreme base to come out on Jan. 6th to try to stop the Constitutional process that would certify Joe Biden as the new president.
It was these people that rioted and broke into the building with the approval of Trump, who told them they had to fight for our country and desribed them, as recently as this month on CNN as "with love in their hearts and it being a beautiful day"
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/95127/#95143
There is no other way to see this or other people to blame. It couldn't be more clear.
R sources telling us otherwise are full of crap and get attention because its exactly what Rs want to hear. 10's of millions of Rs keep believing this because they intentionally go to sources that tell them that.........and the sources know they can get Rs to tune in by saying this crapola.
Jan 6 hearings
Started by metmike - July 21, 2022, 8:13 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87386/
Jan 6 investigation
Started by wglassfo - Aug. 10, 2022, 3:47 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/88019/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/88019/#88038
Related discussions the past 2 months:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87744/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87386/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87019/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87138/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87164/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/86427/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/86427/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/86106/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/86075/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/86039/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85986/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85957/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85856/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85856/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85823/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85677/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85487/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85500/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/85730/
Wow, the hottest topic here this Summer!
+++++++++++++
Election night fraud
Started by rockitck - July 26, 2022, 11:19 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87530/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/87530/#87549
Describing those facts/truth in the earlier posts as gibberish.......suggests that we can add yet another republican non believer to the list of the election truth deniers.
Here's just a few of them:
mikelindells election tape
11 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Feb. 6, 2021, 8:58 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/65299/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72115/
By metmike - March 17, 2021, 1:07 p.m.
Wonderful discussion here:
The truth about voter fraud:
https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Maricopa audit
Started by wglassfo - July 7, 2021, 9:30 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72061/
Arizona recount
5 responses |
Started by metmike - June 3, 2021, 5:34 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70449/
State election officials try to stop election audits
6 responses |
Started by wglassfo - May 26, 2021, 4:22 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/70014/
Arizona Election audit. My favorite story so far.
22 responses |
Started by TimNew - May 21, 2021, 7:30 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/69771/
Snake Oil Salesman Mike Lindell
Started by metmike - May 13, 2021, 12:16 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/69324/
mikelindells election tape
11 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Feb. 6, 2021, 8:58 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/65299/
Election Fraud in Ga
29 responses |
Started by TimNew - Dec. 5, 2020, 5:14 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62268/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62268/#62292
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62268/#62317
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62268/#62385
oh boy! more vote-switching "evidence"
9 responses |
Started by GunterK - Jan. 4, 2021, 10:02 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/63755/
Umm, we have a major problem here: "Trump Pressured GA Secretary of State to 'Find' Votes"
15 responses |
Started by WxFollower - Jan. 3, 2021, 8:28 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/63694/
Chart reading and the Election line chart for Wisconsin/Michigan
16 responses |
Started by rockitck - Dec. 27, 2020, 11:23 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/63393/
is this where we have come to as a country?
17 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 19, 2020, 8:07 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/63002/
forensic analysis of Dominiion software
4 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 15, 2020, 11:02 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62756/
Wisconsin case: Trump side didn't think it was worth calling even a single witness.
2 responses |
Started by WxFollower - Dec. 14, 2020, 3:21 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62730/
Sedition Defined
14 responses |
Started by joj - Dec. 12, 2020, 2:39 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62603/
latest on the election
8 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 12, 2020, 7:46 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62634/
mail in ballots explained again
6 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 13, 2020, 7:40 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62662/
supremes turn back Texas challenge
15 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 11, 2020, 7:31 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62596/
Dominion spokesperson says....
7 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 8, 2020, 8:29 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62426/
Hi Mike
26 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 8, 2020, 12:26 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62389/
Is there a there there
5 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 7, 2020, 4:40 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62373/
the election.... "death by a thousand cuts"
13 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 3, 2020, 1:10 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62128/
more anomolies explained
6 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 6, 2020, 5:18 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62320/
Votes manipulated
22 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 1, 2020, 5:40 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62042/
send all others home and then count the fake ballots?
9 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 3, 2020, 10:35 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62206/
Greetings from Dominion.... all is well
4 responses |
Started by GunterK - Dec. 3, 2020, 11:16 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62142/
Lin Wood Sidney Powell
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 2, 2020, 11:17 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62122/
Fraud or perjury
6 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 2, 2020, 6:58 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62105/
dominion
5 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Dec. 2, 2020, 10:45 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62081/
Georgia GOP Election Official Speaks Out
Started by joj - Dec. 2, 2020, 5:13 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62096/
Chris Krebs Speaks Out
12 responses |
Started by joj - Dec. 1, 2020, 7:05 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62024/
Votes manipulated
22 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Dec. 1, 2020, 5:40 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/62042/
reasons to wonder about the fraud
12 responses |
Started by mcfarm - Nov. 29, 2020, 8:42 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/61936/
Why this election was a fraud
24 responses |
Started by wglassfo - Nov. 26, 2020, 10:21 a.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/61803/
Re: Re: Capitol Insurrection News
By metmike - Jan. 27, 2021, 9:55 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/64730/#64841
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/72115/#72145
Arizona clown show continues
2 responses |
Started by metmike - Aug. 23, 2021, 12:36 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/74108/
Mike Lindell......a complete nut job!
14 responses |
Started by metmike - Aug. 6, 2021, 7:41 p.m.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/73263/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don't expect anybody to go thru all those threads but I remember most of it and I know with certainty, that every BS republican claim about the election and Insurrection was completely debunked multiple times. Some as many as 15+ times here because I was doing the debunking.
But it never mattered and still doesn't matter to those that support Donald Trump.
The far R sources keep sending out the same messaging to keep their flock believing in it because that false election steal, Insurrection caused by others narrative (and it was intentionally caused to blame and get Trump) gives the far R the most uniting traction.
Claiming that there were undercover FBI agents in the crowd, that could have or should have stopped the rioting if they wanted to is nonsense. Just like claiming that Trump asked for thousands of National Guards troops but Nancy Pelosi called them off because she wanted the riot to happen to get Trump in trouble.
It would be a rational discussion to ask why there wasn't more security/cops(that makes more sense than to blame undercover FBI agents for not doing the job of cops........and much of that blame falls on Trump, who even called off the metal detector devices, stating "they aren't here to hurt me".
This topic will come up again numerous times on MarketForum, regardless of how many times it gets debunked and I will just use this thread as the reference.
I totally understand why it keeps coming up too because I watch Fox and other sources selling this snake oil to their loyal viewers.
I'm very happy to do my part in busting another conspiracy theory/DISinformation/junk science, propaganda and false narrative. .......it's a big reason for me to be here!
You are changing my topic from security.
A bank does not leave the vault open at night.
I am not saying it wasn't a brutal attack. Quite the contrary. Mr Sund makes that quite clear.
There is evidence that there was information that there could be an attack on the capitol. That information was withheld from the person in charge of security. Namely Mr. Sund. In previous demonstrations he was informed of this kind of information. Why not this time?
Why would they withhold that information from him? If they knew on Jan 3 about the possibility's, why did they not authorize him to use the national guard?
Why were the standard operating procedures for the national guard changed for this event and Mr. Sund not informed?
Why didn't he get permission for 71` minuets?
Why did it take till almost 6 pm for the national guard to get to the capitol when they were stationed within eyesight of the capitol?
Why was security handled different than for the BLM demonstrations?
A lot of unanswered Questions.
Numerous people have been found guilty in a court of law for insurrection against the US government and are sitting in jail. But their leader walks free and bloviates about the "weaponization of the DOJ".
Put the treasonous threat to our Republic in jail !!!
Furthermore, you have the misconception that I get news exclusively from Fox news. I realize that all news sources can be wrong, including some "fact checkers". That new information is always coming forward.
Thanks much, cutworm!
Sorry if you got the impression that I thought you get all your news from Fox. I use them frequently because they represent the quintessential example of a far right source deluding people with entirely manufactured realities about Trump issues for ratings and agenda.
They have a massive number of viewers with captured brains and I watch them to see what they broadcast so that I can make my own OBJECTIVE, OPEN MINDED fact checking of what they broadcast.........to confirm or debunk them.
You are very encouraged to show your other sources here if its important to you.
"new information is always coming forward." "A lot of unanswered Questions"
Great point, you bet it is. This is actually a profound personal position that defines my using/applying the scientific method to always question what I think I know today.
However, you guys keep ignoring all the OLD, rock solid authentic information and enormous body of evidence that completely defines what happened.
After 2.5 years, the amount of new information left is less than 1%. Why keep ignoring the 99% known?
Because you HOPE that there's a secret still hidden in the last 1% that will completely clear Trump of all the things I just described he did that can never be unseen or undone.
Your sources, INCLUDING Fox want you to believe it, that's why. This is how they get people to tune in/read them. They tell people what they want to hear/read with completely fictional versions and interpretations of what diabolically acting Trump did after he lost the most secure presidential election in history.
Ironically and sadly for me to witness, Donald Trump is NOT the victim. He is the victimizer and his tens of millions of victims, include many of my friends here and in my world. Fox and others are exploiting this to take further advance and victimize.
news sources can be wrong, including some "fact checkers".
Yep, but fact checking a source using indisputable, accurately observed and confirmed information, like the amount of rain/snow that was measured on Jan 6. 2021 at a NWS observation site would be in the weather world, is NEVER going to change. This is clearly a psychological position of "wishful thinking" then going to news sources that grant your wish.
A lot of unanswered Questions.
99% of them have been crystal clearly answered, here 2.5 years later. I've spent countless hours to objectively do that with as much indisputable, independently verified (by me personally) NEVER going to change answers that you guys keep ignoring.
Your wishful thinking and chosen sources telling you what you want to read/hear trumps all else in this realm.
If its any consolation, the same principle that has captured far right brains here, applies in many other realms about many other things, including the fake climate crisis. some very educated climate scientists suffer from this same thing.
We can all see when OTHERS are falling into this trap but NEVER ourselves. That's exactly what makes it so effective and powerful. If we saw it..........it wouldn't work!
Using the scientific method, which always assumes we might be wrong and trying to prove we are wrong FIRST, then being unable to do that, having confidence that we must be right is the best way to counter this cognitive bias in all human beings.
The first 2 months after Trump lost, I spent the entire time assuming that he could be right and trying to prove it.
I came up empty after many dozens, maybe 100+ of sincere attempts to show that he was right and in most instances, I found that HIS side was the one perpetrating blatant, impossible to miss fraud. Over and over and over.
That already happened. It can never not have happened.
There will be additional tidbits still trickling in here in 2023 and I will gladly look at them, like this guy's testimony. But his testimony did not negate 1 iota of the other 99% of known facts.
Trump still did all those things and HE failed to call out the additional security, while he instead watched the rioting for 3 hours on his tv monitors.
You're trying to blame it on failed security because their hands were tied while ignoring the most powerful guy that intentionally made decisions to PREVENT security from intervening to stop the riots which is being completely blind to the reality which is indisputable in the 99% that we know for sure.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99142/#99144
If you are convinced there's more than 1% not known yet as your defense, that doesn't hold water either.
Whatever number that is.........you pick it, 2% 3% or even 5%(unrealistic), you are still completely ignoring the KNOWN FOR SURE 95% that will always define what happened because we can't change well documented, observed events using indisputable measuring metrics.
Those authentic facts will never change unless somebody goes back in a time machine and alters history!
Fox and others are just feeding you a fairly tale about what happened and why.
Bill O'Reilly is a pretty good fact checker himself. And MM if I were so 100% sure about that National Guard statement you just made about Pelosi and Trump I would go back and watch O'Reilly's recent post about that situation and how it was handled. He makes a strong case that is backed by many including the most credible guy involved, Sund.
I liked O'reilly more than anyone at Fox.
I fact checked this one on the National Guard several times already but here we go again. He's wrong.
To be honest, from the get go it sounded like nonsense but I assumed it MIGHT or COULD be right and tried to verify it but came up empty every time.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-235651652542
Did Pelosi order National Guard troops to leave the Capitol?
https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_6572efad-c0c8-461b-9f26-1020801703db
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-order-national-guard-156055113284
A claim from Donald Trump Jr. is false.
Steve Scalise questioned whether Democrats sought help on January 6, but video shows him standing near Pelosi as she called for national guard troops
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/18/republican-steve-scalise-capitol-attack-jan-6
++++++++++++++++++
This is what Hannity and other far right sources claim:
Sean Hannity ripped Democrats' refusal to investigate Pelosi in regard to National Guard troop approvals
Published
https://www.foxnews.com/media/sean-hannity-january-6-committee-subpoena-pelosi
"We now know, and it has been confirmed and corroborated by numerous sources right here on this show, that Donald Trump authorized up to 20,000 National Guard soldiers to protect the Capitol. He authorized this two days before January 6. Now, why would he authorize that?
+++++++++++++++++++++++
This was a very intentional, blatant lie by Hannity to craft his completely false narrative that Trump was trying to stop the riot from happening. I proved above, conclusively that Trump wanted it to happen and refused to do anything for 3 hours after he knew it started. Instead, gleefully watching it on his tv monitors and feel rewarded because it was the end product of his work to incite far right supporters to riot in his behalf, although it fell far short of his effort to overturn the results of the election.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99142/#99143
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99142/#99144
cutworm,
I'm grateful that you started this thread here so that we could have the opportunity to help debunk this very damaging DISinformation that continues to be passed around and accepted in far right circles.
President Trump is a master manipulator that is clearly mentally ill. I say this not based on my personal opinion but as a scientist that has been fascinated by and studied human psychology for decades.
.
Something Is Seriously WrongwithTrump
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/pelosi-lied-former-capitol-police-chief-sund-testifies/ if you can watch this guy testify and then believe a lying witch over his word you are beyond help I am afraid
mcfarm,
You are going to believe that Nancy Pelosi was responsible for this no matter what I state here.
Completely ignoring who the criminal was and how they were 100% responsible for the crime.
It would be like the defense attorney for the criminal that robbed a bank at gun point(with a dozen witnesses and camera footage recording it) claiming that it was the fault of the boss of the head of security for not having the best security in place to stop the robbery.
+++++++++++
Supposedly, Trump did nothing wrong here, folks.
It was entirely the fault of other people, including Ray Epps, supposedly, a plant from the hated FBI that incited the riot because the FBI was trying to frame Trump for it, since the DOJ is out to get Trump and he never does anything wrong.
And here, its the fault of security and even Nancy Pelosi, just coincidentally, a hated Democrat for not stopping what Trump was 100% responsible for.
People tuning into Fox and other far right sources have had their understanding of what really happened completely defined by blatant lies(which are told because its what they want to believe)..........which get repeated over and over.
So people that want to believe in this, interpret all new information based on what they think that they know(which is a lie).
Their truth is actually a lie. What they think is a lie, is the truth. And they are 100% absolutely convinced and can't understand why everybody else doesn't see something so obvious to them.
+++++++++++++++
1. Trump using diabolical schemes to try to overturn the election and enraging tens of millions of Rs, convinced by him that the election was stolen..........is President Trump exercising his 1st amendment rights.
2. Then, when those enraged people come to Washington on Jan. 6 and he is totally responsible for inciting them to riot.........it's Ray Epps and Nancy Pelosi's fault.
3. Then, when the riot is actually happening, he gleefully watches the riot in progress for over 3 hours on his tv monitors, intentionally doing nothing to help........and it's Nancy Pelosi and Ray Epps fault.
4. And we're supposed to believe that loony claim that Trump called 20,000 troops for security that Pelosi blocked...........even though Trump ordered security to NOT use their metal detectors because "they aren't here to hurt me"
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99142/#99143
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99142/#99144
In videotaped testimony played before the committee, she recalled the former president saying words to the effect of, "I don't f-in' care that they have weapons".
Cassidy Hutchinson says Trump ordered the Secret Service to remove the metal detector from the area around his speech, presumably so armed protesters would be unfettered to approach the Capitol.
https://www.tmz.com/watch/2022-06-28-062822-jan-6-hearing-weapons-1447301/
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None of these authentic, verified indisputabe facts matter. Because it was Ray Epps and Nancy Pelosi's fault, by definition. Only facts that confirm that it was Ray Epps and Nancy Pelosi (both from evil organizations out to get Trump-who is always the victim and never at fault) are accepted as the truth for the far right because that has been defined as their truth.
Facts that state otherwise, contradict what those brains think they know and get immediately rejected without any attempt to use critical thinking or to apply them in the real world. The manufactured world/versions have become their reality.
I don't doubt their sincerity one bit.
Just like the people who think the best weather/climate for most life in the last 1,000 years(last time that it was this warm) on this massively greening planet, with beneficial CO2 levels still only half of the optimal level for life......is a climate crisis. Even though it’s a climate OPTIMUM as defined by authentic science!
Completely manufactured realities from hijacking climate science and politics for agenda's!
And people can always see real brainwashes…….but only when they effect people from THE OTHER party.
Brainwashes only work in realms that we want to believe in because we give those a free pass with no scrutiny or skepticism. Those only come from OUR political party and by design, they only target us!!
The stronger our beliefs in the ideologies of our party, the more vulnerable we are for that party to impose brainwashes on us.
that is a hell of an answer to a question I never ask and an opinion I do not have. Thanks a bunch. I wanted to talk about the most credible voice I have heard about jan 5 and jan 6th and that is Sund. If you were to watch him testify and listen to his conviction you understand. Something as important as who talked to and about what was critical those days and all Pelosi has done is lie about it, Sund has documented 3 distinct conversations with the lying witch which she will not even admit to. Of course that jan 6th committee kind of forgot all about pelosi
Thanks much, mcfarm!
The relevant part responding to you was:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/99142/#99170
By metmike - Sept. 22, 2023, 12:04 p.m.
"mcfarm,
You are going to believe that Nancy Pelosi was responsible for this no matter what I state here. Completely ignoring who the criminal was and how they were 100% responsible for the crime."
When a poster is NEVER going to consider the authentic facts because their party gatekeepers won't allow them to have that position, meaning that it's impossible to have a productive, 2 way exchange of information on those topics, only a never ending argument/disagreement, my response is to step back and instead, ANALYZE the dynamic which causes this that impacts everybody aligning with flawed party beliefs that are imposed with impunity and ingrained with repetition.
I appreciate your contribution!
Wikipedia
On January 7, 2021, a United States Capitol Police (USCP) officer, Brian Sicknick, died after suffering two strokes the day after he responded to an attack on the U.S. Capitol.[1] The District of Columbia chief medical examiner found that Sicknick had died from stroke, classifying his death as natural[a] and additionally commented that "all that transpired played a role in his condition".[3][1][4] His cremated remains were laid in honor in the Capitol Rotunda on February 2, 2021, before they were buried with full honors at Arlington National Cemetery.[5]
Multiple media outlets reported Sicknick's death was due to injuries he sustained, but months later the Washington, D.C. medical examiner reported there were no injuries to Sicknick.[3] Within a day after his death, the U.S. Capitol Police and the U.S. Justice Department each said that his death was due to injuries from the riot.[6][7][8] Meanwhile, media, citing two anonymous law enforcement officials, incorrectly reported for weeks that Sicknick had died after being struck in the head with a fire extinguisher during the unrest.[3][9][10]
Sicknick's death was investigated by the Metropolitan Police Department's Homicide Branch, the USCP, and the FBI.[7] On March 14, Julian Khater and George Tanios were arrested for assaulting Sicknick with a chemical spray and for other charges.[11] The medical examiner found no evidence that Sicknick had an allergic reaction to the chemical spray.[3] Prosecutors later said on April 27 that the chemical spray was pepper spray.[12]
Death of Brian Sicknick - Wikipedia
Just one example of how things are not as reported
Thanks much, cutworm,
I totally agree that both sides frequently distort the truth and sometimes blatantly lie for political agenda.
This last example of yours is a wonderful/legit one demonstrating a big distortion of the truth for this 1 person/incident, taking place which misleads/exaggerates a specific element of the damage caused by Trump's riot.
Let's take that one off the list of 10 thousand individual elements. What else is left?
9,999 to go.
What about everybody else there? What about the BIG picture?
What about the hundred thousand irate Rs that showed up because Trump convinced them the election was stolen and as he repeated "You have to fight for your country!"
This incident that you showed had 0 to do with Trump's culpability but the right wants to use it as evidence of Trump being the victim of lies trying to hurt him for things he didn't cause.
You really have no choice but to believe in Trump the victim because you use sources that tell you that because of your political affiliation. If that wasn't true, then I would ask why you don't read the NYTs? or watch CNN instead of Fox.
Joj reads the NYT, so the information he uses, comes from that source and other sources.
I will say with extreme confidence that the NYT is a 20 times more reliable source than Tucker or Fox and that's being kind to Tucker.
However, this actually is my view and I will elaborate more about that below it.
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By metmike - Sept. 19, 2023, 8:46 a.m.
Thanks joj,
I agree with you on Tucker, except I use a different methodology that takes politics out of it.
I never rule out a source because they are full of doo doo most of the time and I don't affiliate with either party. Both parties are full of doo doo, at least a good part of the time.
I try to open mindedly consider the possibility that they might be right every time, then fact check it.
You would be surprised to know that Tucker and even Trump have hit several home runs and had grand slams, while still having one of the lowest batting averages in the league!
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Objective, authentic facts don't stand a chance against a life long political ideology in people that want to believe in something and only use sources that tell them what they want to hear/read.
I'm not here to change minds that I know will never change because of a permament political party ideology and the increasingly divisive sources trying to appeal by saying things that people want to hear/read and invigorating the base.
That means never saying good things about the other party and never acknowledging bad things about their party.
However, the main reason for me to post stuff here is to DEMONSTRATE that it's actually possible to see both sides (good and bad) and take different sides based, not on political affiliation but instead the objective, authentic facts and truth.
It's not just possible to do this, it's the ONLY way that our country will ever halt the increasingly divided nature of our politics.