China - do we really want a trade deal?
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Started by cfdr - Oct. 6, 2018, 9:08 a.m.

I've been thinking about this for a long time.  Do we really want a trade deal with China, or do we want to move away from trading with China?  The latest revelation that "spy chips" have been installed in many products coming from China have made this a valid question.

Tariffs can be put on everything coming from China.  What is to keep them from ever coming off - regardless of whether or not China wants a deal?

By cfdr - Oct. 6, 2018, 9:25 a.m.
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From an article posted - one comment.

WHAT is at stake..
**Remember** Our SHIPS NOT seeing on “radar”??? Were they ‘HACKED”..??
We used to build & manufacture PCB Boards & components right here in Wilmington..

Until,, *OUR* partnership as a “Sister City” by the CoC…
We LOST OUR manufacturing..
SOLD US OUT those Evil Globalist(s)..
Mr President Trump IS CORRECT!…

It’s a Matter of National Security, as much as OUR STEEL & RAW Materials..

Now in the “21 first century” it’s beyond, “Raw Power of Steel & firearms”…
It’s intellectual Property theft..
Read & Weep folks..

Do they have OUR Secrets & Nuclear security codes? (Or much more?)

What away to bring a “Cell phone country to it’s knees”..

The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate U.S. Companies

In 2015, Inc. began quietly evaluating a startup called Elemental Technologies, a potential acquisition to help with a major expansion of its streaming video service, known today as Amazon Prime Video. Based in Portland, Ore., Elemental made software for compressing massive video files and formatting them for different devices. Its technology had helped stream the Olympic Games online, communicate with the International Space Station, and funnel drone footage to the Central Intelligence Agency. Elemental’s national security contracts weren’t the main reason for the proposed acquisition, but they fit nicely with Amazon’s government businesses, such as the highly secure cloud that Amazon Web Services (AWS) was building for the CIA.

To help with due diligence, AWS, which was overseeing the prospective acquisition, hired a third-party company to scrutinize Elemental’s security, according to one person familiar with the process. The first pass uncovered troubling issues, prompting AWS to take a closer look at Elemental’s main product: the expensive servers that customers installed in their networks to handle the video compression. These servers were assembled for Elemental by Super Micro Computer Inc., a San Jose-based company (commonly known as Supermicro) that’s also one of the world’s biggest suppliers of server motherboards, the fiberglass-mounted clusters of chips and capacitors that act as the neurons of data centers large and small. In late spring of 2015, Elemental’s staff boxed up several servers and sent them to Ontario, Canada, for the third-party security company to test, the person says.

Nested on the servers’ motherboards, the testers found a tiny microchip, not much bigger than a grain of rice, that wasn’t part of the boards’ original design. Amazon reported the discovery to U.S. authorities, sending a shudder through the intelligence community. Elemental’s servers could be found in Department of Defense data centers, the CIA’s drone operations, and the onboard networks of Navy warships. And Elemental was just one of hundreds of Supermicro customers.

During the ensuing top-secret probe, which remains open more than three years later, investigators determined that the chips allowed the attackers to create a stealth doorway into any network that included the altered machines. Multiple people familiar with the matter say investigators found that the chips had been inserted at factories run by manufacturing subcontractors in China.
Think about THIS….
They have ALREADY infiltrated!
READ the Whole Story..
THEN think about DiFiChie…

There are more comments to this article that are worth reading.

By wglassfo - Oct. 6, 2018, 12:09 p.m.
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Given the info already uncovered what would we dare buy from china

They sell manufactured goods. A simple toy or key ring FOB could spy on America or any customer, they sell to.. The possibilities are endless. This has become much more then tariffs or free trade, as the information becomes known to the public.. This is national security. I have an idea the implications of national security are much more than reported.


We would have to learn how to cope by losing a market for Ag products, plus very possibly more that I am unaware of. The scary part is rare earth metals. Maybe we have to learn to re-cycle rare earth metals, if that is even possible, regardless the cost We do have access to some rare earth metals, but the competition for access would be costly

Much of current Ag production that is sold to china could be growing ddifferent crops that mother nature  decided  it really should be growing. Hillsides that are erosion prone, low yielding soils that should be pasture or hay should go back to what nature intended. And what about the vast use of water to grow surplus crops. Some day, part of that water will disappear. Part will be needed for human consumption. Some will be needed for food production. 

If you take out the weaker Ag production component and do what mother nature intended all along, a good part of surplus production would be eliminated. Finally, and this is a biggie. If Ag subsidies were eliminated for Ag production, then Ag production in the entire  country would adapt, as others have proven it can happen.  Maybe we don't need china as a customer  if we take realistic measures to rein in surplus Ag production. It can be done, We just have to adapt.

At least we should start some where and take a really hard nosed look at china as a customer.  I think they will continue to spy on our country, in any of many methods.

Is it worth the risk??. All for a few dollars that we could easily change our methods and  be just as successful.. We could manufacture goods in our own country. In fact, for national security we should manufacture in our own country. 

 China is not to be trusted. We were blinded with visions of huge profits and it came back to bite us in the back side. Truth be known those huge profits, that we foolishly chased, actually became the piggy bank Trump talks about.

We gave away the store and now we find out what that store contained. They were the ones who abused the privilege of trade with us and now, I say we forget china as a trading partner. We also did our part. We were greedy and china made us pay for our greed. They will always find ways to make us pay for our greed.

As I said above. The risk is too much for national security. The need to change all the codes will take yrs and cost??? 

China plays the long game and we probably just found out a small portion of their methods. 

By Lacey - Oct. 6, 2018, 2:32 p.m.
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Start demanding reciprocity on trade in form of open markets.  Start building the factories to make those formerly imported goods.  Announce to the world we want to be dominate in automated factories, robotics.  I truly believe America can out manufacture anyone in quality with a level playing Field.  Maybe it's time to stop importing all electronic goods from China, and make them ourselves.  The rare earths could be obtained by mining the deposits of the sea vents  a mile deep on the ocean floor. Industry is just beginning to focus on these deposits.