artic ice
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Started by mcfarm - April 8, 2018, 1:15 p.m.    how could this happen. the left has been so wrong they cannot get out of their own way

Re: artic ice
By mcfarm - April 8, 2018, 2:13 p.m.
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By patrick - April 10, 2018, 5:07 p.m.
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The amount of snow piled up in Canada & Russia right now is indeed huge.
How this connects with the floating ice is a tough question

Some graphs & discussion :,2278.msg149024.html#msg149024

By metmike - April 10, 2018, 11:30 p.m.
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Yes mcfarm,

Pretty big snowstorm in the Upper Midwest/Northern/Central Plains next week.

On your first link, some interesting information, some is authentic. However, sites like this take things with a grain of truth and embellish on that to turn it into fake weather/climate news............with speculating presented as scientific fact.

Sometimes its ok to speculate in areas of science if we are talking about a theory that has credible facts to back it. The Little Ice Age and Maunder Minimum in sun spots for instance. However, when sources use that to predict massive global if its something with a high probability or they have high confidence in is not justified by the known science.

Re: artic ice
By patrick - April 10, 2018, 11:52 a.m.
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Arctic ice is at the 3rd lowest extent for this date
Probably be lowest in another week or 2

A place for honest discussion -

Many, many graphs & charts, with a fabulous global atmosphere gif at the bottom -

By metmike - April 10, 2018, 11:21 p.m.
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Thanks patrick,

Those are great links with tons of wonderful data/graphs. 

The Arctic continues to feature very mild Winters(and cool Summers), as the beneficial greenhouse gas warming effects the coldest places(highest latitudes) during the coldest times of year. Also lows at night have increased more than high/daytime temperatures.

Global warming continues to underperform global climate models and predictions.  The rate has been around 1.3 deg. C/century, some of which may have been caused by an unusually active sunspot regime on the sun. However, the physics of CO2 as a greenhouse gas that traps shortwave radiation coming from the surface of the earth is pretty compelling, so probably around half of the warming was from this effect.

Since CO2's warming effect is logorithmic, it will become less and less as CO2 goes higher and higher. There are also negative feedbacks with increasing low clouds and massively increasing vegetation on the massively greening planet that will likely prevent any dangerous warming.

Melting Arctic sea ice does not cause sea levels to increase. Sea levels have continued to go up at the same rate of the last 150 years........since just after the end of the Little Ice around an inch/decade......around a foot per century.

Not 20 feet higher(per Al Gore) or even 5 feet higher but around 12 inches higher if we continue with the beneficial warming. 

Gore and others predicted that the Arctic would be ice free in the Summer, starting several years ago. Since we set the low minimum of sea ice at the end of the melt season in the Arctic in 2012, we have basically tracked close to that level but not gone lower.............though we keep hearing predictions of much lower.

The current global temperature and CO2 level is much more favorable for most life on this planet than it was 150 years ago. Another increase of 1 deg. C would still be mostly beneficial and CO2, which has gone up from 280 ppm to 405 ppm could double(which will never come close to happening) with benefits happening all the way up.

280 ppm was dangerously low for plants, that were shutting down. Note a 26% increase in crop production just from the added CO2.

It has been baffling, that we have had so much ice melting and global warming but no corresponding acceleration in the the sea level increase. Thermal expansion from the warmer oceans and runoff from aquifers should also be contributing to the ocean levels increase...........but the steady rate of 1 inch/decade continues.

 My theory is that the increase in evaporation from the oceans, is packing the atmosphere(which can hold around 4% more moisture) with water, which has increased precipitation. This has increased global soil moisture and reduced global drought. Also, the massive increase in vegetation is holding a lot of moisture,. including more extensive root systems. 

So the extra water is coming out of the oceans and doing good things for the planet over land. 

By patrick - April 11, 2018, 11:16 a.m.
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The Smithsonian says the rate is increasing:
Between 1900 and 1990 studies show that sea level rose between 1.2 millimeters and 1.7 millimeters per year on average. By 2000, that rate had increased to about 3.2 millimeters per year and the rate in 2016 is estimated at 3.4 millimeters per year. Sea level is expected to rise even more quickly by the end of the century.
(Still getting the hang of these fancy editing tools)


By metmike - April 12, 2018, 9:54 p.m.
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Sorry but I just can't take an article serious that refers to the completely fraudulent hockey stick temperature graph of Michael Mann....... sites the high end of seas increasing at over 4 feet as if this might happen.......which is based purely on speculative modeling that has been too warm and needs to be adjusted downward. 

And they refer to the bogus Climate Accord.......doing everything in it will have almost ZERO effect on the climate.

And the potential collapse of West Antarctic ice sheet, which is  melting from geothermal heat coming from underground volcanoes. 

I do think that sea levels should be rising faster than they were a century ago based on the beneficial warming of the last 100 years.

While there are dozens of articles/scientists that claim sea levels are accelerating and some that state much faster than expected, others show otherwise:

While I'm not expert on sea level increase, I am on atmospheric temperatures and those are warming MUCH slower than predicted and modeled.............and  we have numerous studies that claim the warming is accelerating and its faster(worse than we thought) and that global climate models have been accurate(they have not).

This makes me skeptical when the same group says that sea levels are rising  much faster than expected.

We can assume, that since this group has over predicted the rate of global warming and refuses to reconcile broken models to reality/observations, that their continuation of using the same broken climate models that predict too much warming and resulting ice that melts.......means that their prediction for sea levels at the end of the century is also too high.