The Kool Ade
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Started by cliff-e - May 13, 2019, 8:57 p.m.
By cliff-e - May 13, 2019, 9:07 p.m.
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By metmike - May 13, 2019, 10:50 p.m.
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"Arkansas senator shrugs off farmers going belly up from Trump tariffs: 'Some people will sacrifice'"

Let's talk real world cliff.

Yeah, the tariff's are hurting soybean sales to China pretty bad. However, Trump was not president from 2013 to 2016, which is when farm income crashed. Why weren't you and why aren't you blaming Obama for that?

Farm Sector Profits Expected To Increase in 2019


                            Net farm income and net cash farm income, 2000-19F

metmike: I'm also guessing that you won't be turning down your government check to be compensated for low prices. 

We haven't seen any counter solutions to manage the epic, unprecedented problem that Trump is attempting to reverse from years of it going the wrong way for us. China is not only our main competition in the world right now, they are kicking our butts in many areas and doing it with advantages. 

I know that you only care about what price cliff can sell his soybeans at and even if you get a big check to compensate you for the low prices, will not see the big picture. Please just read the article below describing the big picture with's not pretty. 

Maybe it's too late to do as much as Trump wants to accomplish with this. For sure, we are going to have to admit the fact that its just a matter of time before China is the #1 economic super power on this planet with the US falling farther behind as #2 with time.

Before this tarrif stuff, most of us thought that China was gaining but had no idea of the enormity. 

I'm not positive that this will be resolved entirely in our best interest but after looking at the entire picture, completely understand the solid justification for Trump trying to renegotiate the horrible dynamics in this realm between the US and China...............vs just letting them take advantage of us on their way to economically crushing us. 


I am far from an expert on this and trying to learn more. So I would appreciate it tremendously if you could offer ideas on better ways to manage the situation described by me and the article below. Thanks

U.S.-China Trade Standoff May Be Initial Skirmish in Broader Economic War

"A yearlong trade war between the United States and China is proving to be an initial skirmish in an economic conflict that may persist for decades, as both countries battle for global dominance, stature and wealth.

Progress toward a trade agreement nearly collapsed this past week, with both sides hardening their bargaining positions. And even if a trade deal is reached, it may do little to resolve tensions between the world’s two largest economies.

The United States is increasingly wary of China’s emerging role in the global economy and the tactics it uses to get ahead, including state-sponsored hacking, acquisitions of high-tech companies in the United States and Europe, subsidies to crucial industries and discrimination against foreign companies.

The Trump administration has begun trying to limit China’s economic influence in the United States and abroad, warning about China’s ambitions in increasingly stark terms. Mike Pompeo, the secretary of state, compared China’s ambitions to Russia and Iran in a speech in London last Wednesday, saying Beijing poses “a new kind of challenge; an authoritarian regime that’s integrated economically into the West in ways that the Soviet Union never was.”

The United States has been erecting barriers to limit Chinese investment in American companies, re-examining the kinds of technology that can be exported to China and restricting China’s role in building America’s next-generation telecommunications networks, while also discouraging other countries from using Chinese equipment.

The F.B.I. has increased its scrutiny of Chinese researchers in the United States over fears they may be acquiring intellectual secrets. A Justice Department initiative is targeting commercial espionage of American technology, and earlier this year the United States unveiled a sweeping indictment of the Chinese telecom giant Huawei and its chief financial officer, Meng Wanzhou, over accusations of stealing trade secrets and evading American sanctions on Iran.

China, whose ambition is to dominate industries of the future, is pushing back. A column on Saturday in the Communist Party’s People’s Daily newspaper stated, “The United States is again waving the club of tariffs after misjudging China’s strength, capacity and will, further escalating trade friction between our two countries.”

The piece was written under the pen name Zhong Sheng — the “voice of China” — a name used when the paper publishes comments on foreign affairs that are authoritative.

“We’ve got decades of painful negotiating with China ahead,” said David Lampton, a China scholar at Stanford University. Mr. Lampton said a trade deal, if reached, would do little to resolve the bigger conflict. “It’s just a skirmish in an ongoing battle.”

Chinese negotiators returned to Beijing over the weekend without a trade agreement and with even larger economic barriers between the two countries. The Trump administration raised tariffs on $200 billion in exports on Friday and said it would move ahead with the legal process of taxing another roughly $300 billion of products at the same 25 percent rate.

The two countries could yet come to an agreement that opens opportunities for businesses and rolls back the levies they have placed on each other. Both American and Chinese officials said on Friday that they would continue to talk and could meet in Beijing next month. Liu He, China’s vice premier, called the failure to reach a deal “just a small setback in the talks between two countries,” while Mr. Trump, in a tweet, described the talks as “candid and constructive.”

While a trade deal could calm some tensions and establish more good will between the two nations, it is unlikely to achieve many of the ambitious goals that the administration has set for itself. Mr. Trump’s advisers, in particular the United States trade representative, Robert Lighthizer, have been focused on what the administration calls China’s practices of “economic aggression.”

But the administration has struggled to address the immensity of the problems in the text of a trade deal. People close to the talks say that the negotiators appear powerless to force any changes that aren’t in China’s interest.

Mr. Liu, who is leading China’s team in the trade negotiations, hinted at that uphill battle in a video statement released by the official Xinhua news agency.

“Now both sides have reached consensus in many respects, but frankly there are also areas of disagreement,” he said. “We believe that these are major matters of principle, and any country has its own important principles — we can’t make concessions on matters of principle.”

Despite punishing tariffs already on nearly half of Chinese exports to the United States, Beijing is still resisting many of the most significant changes that the administration seeks. It has been reluctant to roll back subsidies for advanced manufacturing industries or to make public commitments to stop cybertheft.

Instead, a trade deal between the two countries seems more likely to bring change around the margins — tens of billions of dollars of soybean purchases, some tariffs lifted and changes to the text of Chinese laws or regulations that the country might ultimately disregard, particularly once another administration occupies the White House.

“This is a decades-long endeavor,” said Robert Daly, the director of the Wilson Center’s Kissinger Institute on China and the United States. “This can’t be waved away over cake at Mar-a-Lago.”

The notion that the United States has one last shot to change China’s behavior is held by an array of people on both sides of the political spectrum. But it is an aggressive notion of American power to upend a rival system that has delivered prosperity for its people and put China on course to be the world’s largest economy.

Many in China see the United States as a declining power bent on enforcing its will on a world that no longer cowers before its hegemonic might. The troubles in American democracy and the long economic slump after 2008 persuaded many in China that its instincts to chart its own course were correct. In the eyes of many Chinese, their country is simply reclaiming its historic status as a dominant regional power in Asia.

It has also projected power across Asia, Africa and elsewhere while the United States has, on many fronts, retreated from its post-World War II commitment to the global order. But it has done so with little application of military force, in sharp contrast to what many in China see as American militarism.

Many in China have sought to avoid a trade conflict, which could have a larger impact on their economy than the United States’. But they have long thought the United States would have a difficult time accepting a true peer in economic, technology and military power, so consider the management of conflict with the United States to be an inevitable result of their own rise.

In the United States, China’s unwillingness to bow to America’s demands is uniting lawmakers like the Democratic Senate leader, Chuck Schumer of New York, and Senator Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida.

That is a significant shift from the prevailing view in the United States since the death of Mao Zedong in 1976 that close economic engagement with China would produce an increasingly democratic country that would be closely tied to an international economic order founded mainly on Western liberal ideals.

That has not happened.

China has indeed grown in prosperity, leaping into the ranks of what the World Bank defines as upper-middle income countries. Its economy is now bigger than any other country except the United States. Its manufacturing sector is now bigger than those of the United States, Germany and South Korea combined.

But in the last five years, China has veered toward increasingly repressive authoritarianism at home and a rapid military buildup. The State Department estimates that Beijing has put 800,000 to two million Muslims in hastily built internment camps ringed with barbed wire in northwestern China. The Chinese government has built an archipelago of air bases on artificial islands in the South China Sea in between Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines. And China now has the world’s largest navy and has conducted military exercises as far away as East Africa and the Baltic Sea.

On the economic front, the competition is even fiercer. Trump administration officials warn that China is trying to dominate the global 5G infrastructure that will be the basis for future mobile communications and is competing to set other technological standards that will determine which global companies win.

China is extending low-cost loans and building infrastructure around the globe through its One Belt, One Road program, which critics warn is making poorer countries beholden to China. It is out-investing the United States in some high-tech industries, and is gaining dominance in certain segments, like mobile payment, new energy vehicles and areas of artificial intelligence.

While American companies have long hankered for access to China’s growing market, their position has begun to shift as they see China’s practices and treatment of foreign companies. A survey released by the American Chamber of Commerce in China in February showed that the majority of its members favored retaining tariffs on Chinese goods while trade negotiations continued.

China’s own experts say that the Beijing leadership has been caught off guard by the pace of change in American perceptions of Sino-American relations.

“Even if there is some kind of agreement between Xi and Trump, in the long run the strategic bilateral relationship is already in trouble,” said Zhang Jian, a professor in the School of Government at Peking University. “There is no coming back, even if there is a deal.”

The United States has taken steps to restrict the role of Chinese companies like Huawei in building America’s next-generation telecommunications networks, while also discouraging other countries from using Chinese equipment.CreditTyrone Siu/Reuters"
By cliff-e - May 15, 2019, 10:58 p.m.
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By TimNew - May 16, 2019, 3:29 a.m.
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Anyone else notice that the people who direct the "Kool Aid" phrase at their opposition most often,  seem to have kool aid coursing through their veins?

By metmike - May 16, 2019, 5:12 p.m.
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Entities today look for ways to manipulate people and the system to advance their agenda by whatever means necessary.  They have a belief system and objective and if they need to smear the other side or twist the facts in order to impose their belief system, this is the rule of order. There are so many effective tools to accomplish this and so many willing brains to be convinced to drink the Kool-Aid, even as they are taught that the stuff they are addictively chugging down daily is not really Kool-Aid, it's magical truth juice that allows them to be able to see all truths clearly, which is why only they and their side always have it right and the other side has it wrong every time.