63 replies to the original post. Is this a record?

63 replies to the original post. Is this a record?

That might be one way of describing it.

I believe its a record or close to it. Now up to 65 posts.

We've had other topics, like Hurricane Michael last year and its effect on the cotton crop that we started a new thread for because the posts were so massive(along with tons of graphs) that it required some serious scrolling down the page to get to the latest post, so we started a new thread. 

We really don't want to have this many posts in a thread. It's especially challenging on an Ipad or phone to scroll down thru that many posts to get to the latest ones.

If you want to view the old Trump bashing posts(I just realized that this latest one was 6 weeks old-that's too long) go here:

                New Trump Criticizing/bashing Thread for cliff-e(and others)            

                            65 responses |    

                                            Started by metmike - Aug. 22, 2019, 1:16 p.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/37419/

Here is the previous one:

                Trump bashing thread for cliff-e            

                            53 responses |                0 likes            

                              Started by metmike - Aug. 5, 2019, 1:35 a.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/36092/

Mike said: 

"Cliff has been a busy boy trolling and bashing Trump at MarketForum recently. The previous thread was up to 60 posts!!

 Though almost all of it is rubbish, I realize, as a scientist that he is allowing us(me) to peer into the mind of a neurotic/obsessive Trump hater in a way that would otherwise not be possible......after mojo had to be banned(mojo was using obscenities,  name calling and personal attacks with his Trump trolling/bashing).

So, for the time being, we will start a new Trump bashing thread. And pick up from where we left off in the last one, with my last response to let cliff and others know where I'm coming from, despite allowing this rubbish here. 

Also, as a warning to cliff from the last thread allowing this. You were supposed to be limited to one bash/troll thread a day and are supposed to be contributing something other than just this rubbish. I will not be a stickler for the exact limit but 4 a day, like yesterday is probably not going to last very long.

Also, if others are offended by this, please let me know. "

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Mike, I'm not offended since these aren't my posts to which you're referring, but I'm definitely disappointed that you're characterizing Cliff's anti-Trump posts differently from the many pro-Trump posts of others. As the moderator, I would have expected you to talk about his posts more even handedly vs the numerous pro-Trump posts instead of what I think is you letting your pro-Trump bias control your description of his posts. Would you prefer the political part of this forum become all pro-Trump? Not only would that make it one sided, but also it would make it boring since that would shut off debate.

 Whether you believe it or not, there have been and still are a lot of questionable things regarding your guy in addition to him being a meanie/jackass, regardless of Mueller not finding that he colluded with Russia. Not everyone sees him the way you do. Trump is a despicable human being imo and I don't trust him one iota. The odds are thankfully increasing that he will not be reelected in 2020. And as he goes down, he tries to drag others down. That in itself is flat out disgusting!! He flat out asked a foreign country, and a non-ally, communist one at that, to investigate a political rival. That's clearly wrong in my eyes. 

 I don't expect you to ever change with regard to support for him. If you haven't done it by now, I doubt you ever will as your mind id made up. That's not the point of this post as you are obviously fully entitled to your opinion as much as I disagree. The point of it is my feeling that you're letting your pro-Trump feelings influence your moderation.

 In protest, I'm thinking about taking a hiatus from posting at this entire forum.

 "In protest, I'm thinking about taking a hiatus from posting at this entire forum."

Larry,

That would make me extraordinarily sad.........if you decided not to post here for this reason. 

With regards to me taking a pro Trump position. I take a defending Trump position when the facts justify that. Since Trump is being relentlessly attacked, in many cases by sources that are using unethical tactics(one only needs to say "Mueller investigation as a quintessential example)............what position should I have?

You are very analytical and capable of seeing the difference between facts, opinions, emotions and bias.

I sincerely hope that you will use that and the fact that we are friends to  show me specifically all the times that I state things that were opinions that were not based on facts(that I provided almost always) with regards to this issue..

I  have great respect for you and hope that you will do this so I can address it vs being irate enough to threaten to  leave over it. 

Also, this is an open forum where everybody's opinion counts the same(I realize that as forum moderator, my opinion might count more in some minds.........(please don't think that way)

If you think that an opinion of mine or somebody else's is wrong, you should speak up and tell us why and provide evidence. You are extremely intelligent and have great communications skills.

What you are overlooking is the fact that I WANT more intelligent thoughtful criticism of Trump. 

The orginal thread was changed to this(from bashing) at joj's request. Unfortunately I couldn't get you, joj or anybody else to participate.........only cliff. So after numerous consecutive days of nothing but cliff's Trump bashing/trolling, I changed it back to the appropriate title of what what you guys made it. cliff's Trump bashing thread.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/reply_post/40458/

                Re: New Trump bashing/criticizing thread for cliff-e(and others)            

                By joj - Sept. 9, 2019, 6:06 a.m.            

I find the term "Trump Bashing Thread" to be incendiary.

If the goal were civil discourse, perhaps "A Trump Criticizing Thread" ?

Bashing suggests wild and out of control.  Bashing suggests emotional and unfounded.

As for who might be a better candidate?  A N Y O N E....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++                                            

                New Trump Criticizing Thread thread for cliff-e(and others)            

                By metmike - Sept. 9, 2019, 10:39 a.m.            

"I find the term "Trump Bashing Thread" to be incendiary.

If the goal were civil discourse, perhaps "A Trump Criticizing Thread" ?

Agreed, thanks.

Changed it for you.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Larry,

I left it like that for several weeks and only cliff responded with his usual stuff. I want to make this forum a place where you can communicate your thoughts on anything but please help me to do this by participating more. 

If you feel that the other side is not getting the same amount of posting power, the way to increase that sides posting power is to not threaten to leave.........(which does the opposite) but instead,  be a person who makes powerful posts about things that you think are underrepresented here.

Do you really want cliff's cut and paste trolling to almost exclusively represent one sides opinions on Trump?

Please give us some thoughtful Trump critiques instead of leaving because you think I'm not doing it right. 

When Obama gets bashed unfairly, I defend him too.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/38878/

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/34963/

I have explained my position on Trump several times here. Maybe you forgot or missed it. This is one thread that had it in a response to pj during a great conversation:

         https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/38452/

       By metmike - Sept. 7, 2019, 5:43 p.m.            

Do you think that the Russia investigation and reporting was fair to Trump?

  "Certainly not completely, though I don't think it was as unfair as you do. That said, wouldn't put it past Trump to do anything, no matter how unscrupulous, if he thought it would help him win. And, there is something very odd about his bromance with Putin."

Thanks for all the answers pj!

I've always considered you very neutral and objective on almost everything, especially climate change where you have some good critical thinking and understanding in science.

Your comments above confirm my previous thoughts on how people perceive Trump and why they accept abuses of him that would NEVER have been tolerated of previous presidents. 

No matter what the accusation, evidence or not, people think "It's unscrupulous Trump, he could have done it, whatever they do to him is justified"

The oddest thing about his "bromance" with Putin is how its been portrayed by the media since they started the Trump-Russia Collusion narrative being used to explain his win and to vilify him.

Trump has strange, never before occurring relationships with all sorts of leaders.

N.Korea went from a mortal enemy to best friend. China, Iran, Russia, Finland, France.

During the 2+ years of convincing people that Trump colluded with Russia this was imparted in their brains. As you know better than most, once somebody believes something, even if its false, its almost impossible to get them to believe the truth.

This will be seen as defending Trump by some but its  nothing more than objective truths. I stated this recently after being wrongly accused of bashing Obama(it never happened but people assume that anybody that defends Trump must also be an Obama hater because they can't connect with objectivity and open mindedness in todays world.

"I think that Obama has a good heart and was a gifted charismatic communicator. His policies on health care and other issues were sincerely intended to help the poor. He  promoted peace with the Muslim world. His position on gun violence/control also had the best interest in heart. He was very charitable with US assistance of  money/donations/resources to poor countries. "

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/38481/

I personally have a great dislike for Donald Trump, the man. If I could rank him as a human being on a scale of 1-10, he would be around a 2-3(keep in mind that rapists and pedophiles exist and he's not that low).

Why do I support his agenda and unfair attacks on him?

1. His policies/platform are not him.  I'm well aware that reputation and our relationship with other countries is big but the rest of the world is trying to screw us over royal with the climate accord(we commit many billions and cut fossil fuels to do nothing for the climate........which is a climate optimum anyway.)

2. When I read scientific papers/studies/research results, I would never care about the scientists that did the work. If their work has value/knowledge/understanding and represents truth, who cares about anything else. ............for me at least. Almost no people will vote for president with the mind of a scientist(too bad) They will vote because they like Trump(or don't hate him so much that they can see his agenda) or because they hate his guts and vote for the other person.

3. What almost nobody realizes right now is that the objective around the world and in the US is global socialism via the UN, I'm 100% certain and I show the facts here: 

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/38156/

I'm 95-98% sure that it is coming, no matter what we do and Trump is the only thing in the way at the moment. pj, you can't connect with the extreme ideas of the dems but think about it, of all the ones running, how many represent the moderate dems of old(that I voted for and maybe you did too)?

Answer: ZERO

With that large number and all of them being extreme(by our standards) ....they have even forced Biden to morph far left because he knows that is the only way to win, because he knows that's where the Dem party is going. On what planet does anybody think that dems will suddenly become more moderate? With ever year that goes by, it the complete opposite........more extreme because the younger generation has been indoctrinated with this belief system. Us older people, like every other time in history with whatever ideas we have/had will be replaced and we are just getting a glimpse of what is to come with the new generation based on the Dems running right now.

In the transition, like every other tine in history, the old system and people defending it will be in complete denial that the new system is coming(funny that I get called the climate denier). In real time, as plays out, it only becomes obvious to the deniars after their old way has been obliterated beyond hope. People are creatures of hope(which is good) and will deny realities past the point of logic.

This applies to climate change policies too. Though I battle for truth and authentic climate science, my power to enlighten people that a climate optimum is being twisted into a climate emergency for global and US socialism  is a drop in the bucket compared to the billions of people on the planet against me.

Billions?

Yes, many billions of people. The vast majority of people and countries on this planet are poor. Of course they are all signed up for the climate accord. They get everything(money) and it includes China/India who can emit as much CO2 as they want...part  of the deal. 

The not so numerous rich countries are led by increasingly very liberal politicians also on board with this belief system. Trump is an outlier/aberration that can't be sustained-no way- when almost the entire rest of the world is against his nationalism  and the dems/MSM are winning the battle to defeat him.

Nobody is viewing the big picture because they only see this as a hate Trump or support Trump issue. 

With regards to global socialism. I am very strongly in favor of the more equitable distribution of resources that this represents. The US consumes way too much and there are way too many very poor people suffering that would have massive improvements in the quality of their lives if we would give more of what we had to them.

I am for a plan to do that but not perpetrated with fraud to trick people..........hijacking climate science, rewriting climate history and lying about the climate optimum and the climate accord. Climate science will take many decades to recover, if ever from this intentional dumbing down of people for a political agenda.

One can ask "if they didn't do it this way, could the same thing be accomplished by being transparent and not pretending this was a "save the planet" endeavor?

Answer, no!

At least not this fast. Using the truth, it might take many more decades. Scaring people into thinking we need theese actions right now because of the climate emergency is the only way to accelerate the time frame.

The sad thing is that the ability of the gatekeepers  to indoctrinate/brainwash people on a global scale like this will not just end with this  major accomplishment. It defines the new order.  People clearly will not do the homework needed in their busy lives to verify what they are hearing is actually the truth.  "Their" truth is what they hear and see repeated over and over on the MSM or by world governments. We have lost our ability to do the critical thinking that was used in the past because we HAD to use that to figure things out for ourselves. Now we are cerebrally lazy and rely on the MSN and news sources to tell us the facts because thats their job.

The power of electronics has created a globally connected monstrosity of a propaganda machine that bombards billions of people into a cult of the brainwashed, maximizing the technology to impose a belief system(s) around the planet.

It's already happened with the climate crisis(emergency).  Profound changes because of it are right around the corner.

Larry,

I would very much miss your wonderful weather and market posts more than anything. There is nobody better at assessing the natural gas market or helping us follow tropical systems. 

I understand if you don't want to make Trump criticism posts to help represent a side that is under represented here but please don't quit over that and give up on all the other good stuff.

I want you to think about something very seriously. Pleaseread this thru. 

Wayne brought up something that Rush L. said last week. I never liked or listened to him because he's so divisive/extreme but he claims that we are having a cold Civil War right now(I contended that he is part of the reason).

After thinking about this more, he is 100% correct.

For sure Trump is the most divisive president in history and is partly responsible. For sure the MSM, being controlled by progressive activists, along with the democrats that don't just disagree with Trump but hate him and want to destroy him are responsible for the rest of it..............the perfect storm for this civil war.

The top news story, almost every day is the latest  on Trump ............and on most MSM stations, it's negative to extremely negative and blatantly biased(this is not defending Trumps actions, which are sometimes horrible, its reporting the OVER reaction intended to get us to hate Trump) The MSM is a for profit business and this is causing block buster ratings.

And what has happened to the many millions of Americans as a result of this battle is exactly why its a civil war. Our emotions over how we feel about Trump have become so overwhelming that it's destroying us. Controlling our emotions to the point of it negatively affecting decisions that should have nothing to do with Trump. Destroying long lived, previously solid relationships because our friend or family member is a Trump supporter or Trump hater.

Online, it has resulted in constant, intense, hateful exchanges between people that could ordinarily be civil to each other. It's not the exception at all any more. It rules over peoples thoughts to where they are obsessed with it(note my many, many, many analytical "epistles" as Alex would call them, on this here-more than what is reasonable). I  have mentioned that I'm really spending too much time on it.

You are ready to let your feelings about President Trump, wreck a friendship going back over a decade but especially enjoyable(at least for me) that last 1.5 years while being MarketForum moderator. 

We share a great deal with our love for weather, markets and other things . Donald Trump has nothing to do with that but you will let Donald Trump take that away from you/us?

You are saying that your dislike for Donald Trump is more important than our friendship. Sorry to put it bluntly but you and many millions of others in America have decided the same thing. Not just sort of feeling that way but to the point of it being a friendship breaker/cold civil war right now between the Trump supporters and Trump haters.......that is tearing our country apart.  

I can't stop you from leaving here but please at least think about these points in this latest epistle.  I hope that it provokes a revelation for you on viewing what's more important to you than whether others have the same Trump view that you do.

                HiddenTribes: America’s Polarized Landscape            

                            Started by metmike - Sept. 27, 2019, 7 p.m.        

    https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/39903/

                Civil War            

                            Started by wglassfo - Sept. 30, 2019, 12:17 a.m.            

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/40018/

Hey Mike,

 Thanks for the nice words. And I know moderating is not easy and the pay isn’t good. ;)

 To clarify, I was thinking about just taking a hiatus (probably not that long) from posting rather than stopping posting for good. I enjoy posting on the TR side too much to stop for good there.

Larry,

Thanks for responding so quickly. 

I like moderating too much, as it takes up more time than I should be spending doing it. 

On something like this, if I didn't enjoy it and complained and don't make money on it, then it would be like "then metmike has a screw loose to keep being moderator"

Actually, I believe it to be an path to enlightening people about realms that I research extensively which others don't have the time or expertise to do it and so  they end up using unreliable sources that give out fake news/bad information.

On your break from the forum, that's what I thought you had done already as I missed your natural gas and weather comments a great deal recently.

Please don't feel obligated or pressured to post or to stay or to come back after X amount of time because you feel guilty. Whatever the reason, it's completely acceptable and I'm the only one that should feel obligated to  be here as moderator.

With one exception. Please don't allow your feelings for Trump or what you think my feelings are or should be for Trump, play and role in that decision.

Wow. Since this series of Trump criticizing threads (now up to 3) were created by the Moderator 63 days ago on Aug. 5 there have been 129 posts (including this one) on the subject. That's quite an accomplishment considering it's a subject Cult 45 would rather see go away. It is a sign that there's much more to tell and expose and to remind ourselves of. Since 45 tweets and screams his way into the news on what seems like an hourly basis I suspect there'll be much more to expose on this and other social media platforms.

Btw I wouldn't care to be a moderator...it'd be like being a bouncer at a bar in the roughest part of town but as the old saying goes "Be careful what you ask for 'cause you might just get your wish". ;~)

totally agree cliff...much more to expose. Have you noticed this China/biden deal......not much to see and you are probably glad we finally have a leader of the executive branch whose job it is to find and fight corruption. Seems then President Obama appointed biden in charge of policy in 2 countries, china and Ukraine. Strange coincidence his son was given over 1,5 billion to invest from china {with no investment experience} and 60K /mo from Ukraine for gas and oil advice with no previous experience. So, Cliff, what do you suppose the son of the VP was paid for? Aren't you glad we are finally looking into this corruption? Why wasn't it done years ago? Why wouldn't you want corruption investigated? Does Trump have to do everything himself because the dems sure are not helping?

I too am in favor of looking into corruption.

Another with a conscience. tick, tick, tick...

http://www.yahoo.com/gma/2nd-whistleblower-comes-forward-speaking-ig-attorney-122200079.html

real simple cliff...so called whistleblowers that have no first hand knowledge are what we in fly over country call swamp creatures, Unelected bureaucrats that don't like an elected President's policy. They should be going to trial for treason.

From your link:

"2nd whistleblower comes forward after speaking with IG: Attorney"

How is this stilll a "whistleblower?  Everybody on the planet knows about this...........and we've even seen the transcript.  The whistleblower program is set up to provide cover to people who are tipping off investigators  about a situation that was not known so they can look at the complaint and decide whether to open an investigation.  

Since there is a huge investigation already going on, there can't be more" whistle blowers" based on the definition of a whistle blower. New people can come forward and act as witnesses (which is what this is) but it's too late to have new whistleblowers coming forward......................unless you are clearly abusing that term for political reasons. 

Who doesn't already know about this?

Even the transcript of the phone call has been out there for the world to see.

Since the first whistle blower did not have first hand knowledge and that was being used to make them look less credible, this, new first hand witness(who is a witness for the investigation) has suddenly  come forward and instead of calling them what they are..............a witness in the investigation, they are calling them a whistle blower with FIRST HAND knowledge.

They should have used this new person FIRST as the whistle blower if they wanted them to be the whistle blower or even at the same time. You can't go back and do it over, after you realized that oversight.

We should also note that corrupt Adam Schiff had the whistle blower complaint way back in August and lied about it, saying he didn't have it............and contending that the delay of him getting it(when he had it) was part the cover up attempt by Trump............who actually released the transcrip of the call immediately upon request.

45 found someone else to blame for his "perfect?" phone call. Perhaps Perry will add his name to the Whistleblower list that will continue to grow.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/trump-blames-loyalist-perry-in-shifting-ukraine-call-explanation?srnd=politics-vp

cliff,

I had started a new thread with this post but will help you to generate numbers under your favorite topic and this is a good place for it, as the "go to thread"on the latest (-:

2nd whistleblower comes forward after speaking with IG: Attorney

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/2nd-whistleblower-forward-speaking-ig-attorney/story?id=66092396

metmike: What's interesting is that the first whistleblower did not have first hand knowledge and the 2nd one does. Interesting, because it appears that the source of the information for the first whistleblower was the 2nd whistleblower.

Doing it this way, using a feedback loop, allows there to be 2 separate complaints and whistleblowers, with the 2nd one appearing to be even more credible vs just having this latest person, the 2nd whistleblower that had to exist from the get go(or the first whistleblower would not have had anything to go on), come forward with the whistle blower complaint from the get go.

Same information but its being stretched to appear as if we are getting new information from multiple sources. 

By using the whistleblower protection plan,  this means they keep their identities secret, which allows them to do it this way without others being able to learn information about them that would show that this is exactly what they did.

Pretty dang clever. 

We must keep their identities secret of course because they are fearful for their safety because of what President Trump might do to them.

As if, that would not be exactly what the dems would want. After Trump found out who it is, something really bad happened to that person. Perfect ammo to use against him. 

Amazing times we live in. Fascinating. 

http://news.yahoo.com/trump-fox-news-impeachment-poll-they-suck-152334572.html?hl=1&noRedirect=1

He thinks he's polling bad now...wait 'til the polls come out after 2 of his "Team 45 Crime Syndicate" were hauled in.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7558955/Florida-businessmen-tied-Rudy-Giulianis-Ukraine-effort-arrested-campaign-finance-charges.html

cliff,

You've been under-performing as our Trump trollster. You even allowed Gunter to scoop you on that last link:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/40761/

45 and disPenceable are in Mpls. tonight were told to pay in advance the half million dollar security bill. Will see if that ever happened.

The rats and people with conscience are still jumping ship.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/senior-adviser-to-pompeo-resigns/2019/10/10/0d771aa2-ebb5-11e9-85c0-85a098e47b37_story.html?fbclid=IwAR0W-ntW4N1H51Qbft7Xnal5S6GnIzE_DVxkeXz-sSjGD6zs_JOdUvxdZ84

The 45 campaign breaks another legal agreement. Just as we've come to expect.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2019/10/11/prince-estate-trump-had-no-permission-play-purple-rain-rally/3939415002/

45's White House guests are certainly interesting.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-emerge-of-trump-with-arrested-giuliani-associates-2019-10

A world of influence.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/06/trump-foreign-business-interests/

Movie night at "Le Club Cult 45" and the violent bloodthirsty crowd just eats it up. :~/

http://www.businessinsider.com/video-fake-trump-shooting-stabbing-reporters-pro-trump-group-2019-10

Thanks cliff,

There are several interesting elements to this.

One of which is the attempt to connect this to Trump as is always the case, when a Trump supporter does a bad thing..........Trump is responsible.

White House: President Trump 'Condemns' Violent Video Played at Free Speech Conference at His Miami Resort

https://time.com/5699964/trump-violent-video/

Trump ‘strongly condemns’ doctored video showing him killing news media outlets and political foes, press secretary says

Published Mon, Oct 14 201912:44 PM EDT

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/14/trump-condemns-video-showing-him-killing-media-outlets.html

Of course CNN is calling Trump out on this. Blaming him and his lack of more emphatically condemning the video.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/10/14/fake-trump-video-shooting-media-critics-brooke-baldwin-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

Baldwin on Trump video: There is so much more to this

The Cult 45 fan base is still shrinking.

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-soybean-farmer-turns-on-trump-052526651.html?hl=1&noRedirect=1

And another...and then another and then another etc. Will they first be called crooks and then crooks who turn into whistleblowers to save their own skins?

http://news.yahoo.com/another-man-arrested-probe-giuliani-151030670.html?hl=1&noRedirect=1

So now Trump is responsible for the actions of anybody that had business dealings in the past with anybody that he does business with (Gulliani-his lawyer)?

What is the crime that Trump committed here?

Birds of a feather flock together.

Definitely a crime there and it was captured brilliantly with that picture and sent out to everybody that can see it with their own eyes.

Just look at Trumps tie.........it's red!!

The Significance of the Color Red in Russian Culture

https://www.tripsavvy.com/red-in-russian-culture-1502319

  Red as a Symbol of Communism  

And Trump doing the thumbs up sign................oh boy!

https://people.howstuffworks.com/10-obscene-hand-gestures-from-around-world10.htm

"Thumbs down on the thumbs-up sign when you're traveling. This seemingly-innocuous gesture that means, "Great! I like it! All right!" in the U.S. has pretty awful meanings elsewhere. In the Middle East, for example, it means up your butt, fella. (Or worse.) Many, if not most, Latin Americans find it offensive, as do citizens of West Africa, Greece, Russia, Sardinia, the south of Italy, Australia, the Philippines and many Islamic nations. Phew! That's a lot of thumbs-up haters."

One can guess that thumbs up in this picture was the sign for Russians to get Biden(-:

And the word of the day is....crumbling.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/blockade-against-impeachment-crumbling-witnesses-121722283.html

Vote John Kasich for President 2020.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/18/john-kasich-president-trump-should-impeached/4024401002/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories

cliff,

Do you not even listen to the guy speak from your own link/clip here?

Mulvaney: "The money held up had nothing to do with the Bidens"

You guys are so hypnotized by your leaders that you will just believe the manufactured version of what he said without actually checking to see what he actually said:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/41233/

Wayne got such a kick out of this comment, I thought he would enjoy it again:

                Re: Mulvaney Admits Trump's Quid Pro Quo            

                     By metmike - Oct. 18, 2019, 12:08 a.m.            

You fell for another whopper joj.

Let me assist you in adjusting your statement to the truth.

"The dems and MSM falsely claim that Mulvaney admits Trump's Quid Pro Quo"

I listened to his original statement. He never said that.

This is what he says:

Mulvaney: “Once again, the media has decided to misconstrue my comments to advance a biased and political witch hunt against President Trump. Let me be clear, there was absolutely no quid pro quo between Ukrainian military aid and any investigation into the 2016 election," Mulvaney noted. "The president never told me to withhold any money until the Ukrainians did anything related to the server. The only reasons we were holding the money was because of concern about lack of support from other nations and concerns over corruption."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mulvaney-admits-quid-pro-quo-military-aid-withheld/story?id=66353143

Let me guess, you will believe what the MSM tells you to believe about what Mulvaney says and not what Mulvaney actually says.

I think that if the MSM and dems told you guys that it was sunny outside and to make sure you put on plenty of sunscreen.............during a heavy thunderstorm, you would put on the sunscreen, go outside, getting soaking wet and  worry about whether you have enough sunscreen on to protect yourself from the fake sunshine.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

By wglassfo - Oct. 18, 2019, 2:57 a.m.

Hi MM

That reply made me laugh out loud

We need to recognize the funniest reply to a post, some how

Your post gets a 10 out of 10

Apparently something called the Emoluments Clause got in the way of his ego trip plans. What will be 45's next diversion tactic?

http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-drops-plan-to-host-g7-at-his-florida-golf-resort-20191020-p532ew.html

Bill Taylor testifies.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-us-diplomat-bill-taylor-testifies-that-trump-linked-ukraine-e2-80-99s-aid-to-investigations/ar-AAJbeAl

Is it winning or whining over supporters or lack thereof?

http://www.yahoo.com/news/human-scum-donald-trump-harsh-205717570.html

Thanks cliff!

I'm on your side here..........with regards to the verbiage that President Trump chose to use to describe Never Trump Republicans.

Calling them "Human Scum" is completely out of line. Using that term to describe serial killers or pedophiles may be appropriate but using it for members of Congress, even those that are lying(Schiff) and framing you is wrong and is only going to cause people to hate you more because of the hate that term incites.

Using it on members of his own party is obviously not going to generate even more support from his own party, so its counterproductive there too.

In fact, calling them human scum, is evidence for his targets to show why they are Never Trumpers. 

No doubt that there are some Always Trumpers that  feel the same way that Trump does on this and are ok with him using "street slang type language" and  he is appealing to that group with the name calling.

Trump does so many right things but continually shoots himself in the foot with impulsive, mean tweets and hate filled diatribes aimed at his enemies........which has the complete opposite effect that he intends it to have.

White House defends Trump's 'human scum' remark

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/467260-white-house-defends-trumps-human-scum-remark

"White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said Thursday that President Trump does not regret calling “Never Trump” Republicans “human scum” and said they “deserve strong language like that.”

“The people who are against him and who have been against him and working against him since the day they took office are just that,” Grisham said during an appearance on “Fox & Friends” Thursday morning. “It is horrible that people are working against a president who’s delivering results for this country and has been since day one.”

“The fact that people continue to try and negate anything that he’s doing and take away from the good work he’s doing on behalf of the American people, they deserve strong language like that,” Grisham continued."

metmike: I agree with the idea but strongly disagree with those 2 words.........but again, we are boiling everything down to 2  words and Trump's childish name calling.

 How important is that in the big picture? The same one for the last 3 years.

 Voters should get the opportunity to decide next year.

As the saying goes "Loose lips sink ships" and it appears all of 45's close associates are piloting the "SS 45" right into the rocks despite him saying "I am the Team".

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rudy-giuliani-butt-dials-nbc-reporter-heard-discussing-need-cash-n1071901?yptr=yahoo

Winning over fans here too?

http://sports.yahoo.com/donald-trump-makes-appearance-at-world-series-game-5-004342379.html

Vindman alarmed. One by one they testify. Tick Tick Tick...

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/read-national-security-official-alexander-s-vindman-s-prepared-remarks-n1073156

Thanks cliff!

Yeah, I would be alarmed too if Trump had actually DEMANDED an investigation like this guy  claims. 

Or if there had been an actual quid pro quo exchange ..........which there wasn't. 

Just this phone call:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

http://www.politicususa.com/2019/10/29/white-house-forged-ukraine-call-transcript-to-cover-up-trump-crimes.html

Thanks much cliff!

Your chosen source's headlines below are contradicted in the headlines of another anti Trump source coming out about the same testimony from the same person about the same phone call.

Headline from Cliff's article: The White House Forged The Ukraine Call Transcript To Cover Up Trump’s Crimes

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/10/29/white-house-forged-ukraine-call-transcript-to-cover-up-trump-crimes.html

From CNN at the same time: "White House Ukraine expert characterized call transcript as mostly accurate"

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/impeachment-inquiry-10-29-2019/index.html

The "Bashers" are having trouble keeping track of just which crimes they are trying to convict Trump for.

Read a long blasting article this morning about how wrong it was for Trump to use "quid pro quo" to get dirt on his opponent Joe Biden and his son.   But, wasn't the call about getting information on a server from back in 2016?

Gosh,  it's getting hard for me to keep track too.  Can't say I blame them.

(BTW,  "Bashers" is my new term.  Similar to "Deniers",  but with credibility  :-)

Tim,

I misstated that the call was only about the 2016 election last week but I read the transcript over again to be sure of what I was stating and he does mention Biden one time, so for sure he wanted part of the overall investigation into corruption to include Biden..............and it was a big reason for him.

However, the quid pro quo never happened.  He did not insist or demand anything, he asked the president nicely if he would look into it corruption and mentioned specifially the Bidens and 2016 election and Ukraines money still came to them without Trump getting anything in return, so there can't be a quid pro quo by definition.

Can the president of the US ask a foreign country to look into corruption......where there looks to be obvious corruption?

Of course he can. 

Can he ask them to dig up dirt on a political opponent and make military aid contingent upon them doing that(quid pro quo) of course he can't..........and the evidence clearly shows that it did not happen...........despite the never Trumpers claiming the phone call shows it.

The phone call features him asking nicely for an investigation, specifically into the corruption that he has been/is most affected by............but our country is/was also affected by that same corruption too.

How can anybody think that Biden's situation or the 2016 election corruption, both involving likely corruption in the Ukraine don't justify an investigation.

That would be like telling the democrats right now, "hey, you can't investigate corruption that you claim Trump committed because he is from the opposite party and that would be political"

Trump did not ask for anything other than an investigation.

Schiff was the one that made up "dig up dirt" and asked 7 times bs that he read into the record.

45 can now add this to his tarnished resume'.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/house-approves-trump-impeachment-resolution-paving-way-for-the-start-of-open-hearings-153013481.html

Like I've been saying, this is part of the plan. 

Have the secret hearings, where they can leak out information and narratives to affect public opinion for a few weeks, then after the damage is done, open it up and claim they are open and doing exactly what the republicans asked for.

Hey, do you think that we could do the last 3 weeks over then with the same witnesses and the hearings open?

With the impeachment inquiry about to become more public after 3 weeks of closed hearings it'll be interesting to see how well Pubs have read this book and learned (re) it's lessons. The "Cult 45 Obstruction of justice Train" is about to pick up steam.

Money can't legally buy him love but he gonna try anyway.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-committing-felony-bribery-giving-fundraising-cash-gop-senators-ahead-impeachment-trial-1468946?fbclid=IwAR2eqfSP7igp07ofmDlW79qpy3QtRKVHfFT3pS5dgGYfizqIr5qY39VffSw

But if there's nothing illegal and nothing to hide then why the gag order?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-official-who-heard-trumps-call-with-ukraine-leader-testified-that-he-was-told-to-keep-quiet/2019/11/01/dbed7fae-fc07-11e9-ac8c-8eced29ca6ef_story.html

Sinking feeling.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-news-latest-ukraine-call-tim-morrison-russia-white-house-a9180186.html

(-:

Treason.

http://www.nwitimes.com/opinion/columnists/guest-commentary/guest-commentary-what-trump-has-done-in-ukraine-isn-t/article_f41e40ac-1cfb-5d4f-8614-d3fe044de2d1.html

(-:

(-:

The Trump Organization in Ukraine.

http://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/04/trump-ukraine-corrupt-resort-065075?nname=playbook-pm&nid=0000015a-dd3e-d536-a37b-dd7fd8af0000&nrid=0000014e-f0fe-dd93-ad7f-f8ff7e290000&nlid=964328&fbclid=IwAR0z1bZvx2VAFY70N9NBOMOqmJK1STozbt7c7PqlNqMzP8gtzhIgzctxz3U

The title of your story:

"Before his claims of corruption, Trump tried to build a resort in Ukraine"

metmike: The attempt by the author is to spin this against Trump but the reality is that it can be interpreted as just the opposite.

1. How many hotels did Trump actually build in Ukraine? Zero. And he has zero hotels there now.  Can you imagine the fuss  one side would put up if he actually had real estate business deals as a private citizen over a decade ago in a country that had corruption?  

2. How do we know that it wasn't the corruption that caused Trump to NOT make the deals?

3. This makes Trump more familiar with the dynamics of the corruption in Ukraine and that experience is part of him, now that he is president. He understands Ukraine corruption better than any other president.

4. Bidens situation was completely different. He wasn't interested in a legal business deal or transaction, like Trump was............he was the 2nd most powerful man in the United States, using his political position to benefit his son in a corrupt country...........because it was a corrupt country. There is a 0% chance Hunter would have gotten that position in a field he knew nothing about, in a country he knew nothing about, without Joe's influence as VP of our country. Then there's the firing that took place which Joe bragged he was responsible for at the time but now says he had nothing to do with.  

The distinction is like  night and day.

Not a shred of evidence or unusual circumstances with a global real estate company in the US dealing with Ukraine.............vs Clear nepotism with 100% certainty by a vice president and additional suspicious/unusual circumstances based on the facts and previous statement.

So this article goes after/makes insinuations about the innocent party?

Wonder why?

Nepotism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism

Nepotism is the granting of jobs to one's  relatives or friends in various fields, including business, politics, entertainment, sports, religion and other activities. Nepotism is the act of using one's power to get good jobs or unfair advantages for the members of your family when the members of your family do not deserve it or may not have the right skill, experience or motivation. The term originated with the assignment of nephews to important positions by Catholic popes and bishops. Trading parliamentary employment for favors is a modern-day example of nepotism.^{[citation needed]} 

Nepotism refers to partiality to family whereas cronyism refers to partiality to a partner or friend. Favoritism, the broadest of the terms, refers to partiality based upon being part of a favored group, rather than job performance

Sondland and Volker. Tick Tick Tick.

http://www.axios.com/godron-sondland-kurt-volker-ukraine-testimony-transcript-excerpts-f63971f1-4e17-4fcb-8130-8bc1af29da01.html

Thanks cliff!

I know that you like to dwell on the headlines and pick some juicy ones for us without actually understanding that the content often contradicts the headline and sometimes, proves the exact opposite of what the story intends to show, especially when you look at the record and read the actual testimony.

Driving the news: Sondland, a key figure in alleged efforts by President Trump and Rudy Giuliani to pressure Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and the 2016 presidential election, revised his Oct. 17 testimony on Nov. 4, according to the transcript. He stated that he told an aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that military assistance would not be released until Zelensky issued a statement agreeing to investigate Burisma, a gas company with ties to Biden's son.

metmike: Pretty insane stuff.  Something that he had no recollection of on Oct. 17, during his testimony to answer questions and tell everything that he knew about military aid to Ukraine and Trump........  suddenly came to him since that time. And it just happens to be much more powerful than everything else he testified to.

This would be like somebody asking me if there was any unusual weather at our house in September. I tell them, no it was just typical September weather and go into detail about several rain events and what my rain gauge measured, as well as the hot weather and temperatures.

Then, suddenly........2 weeks later, I contact the person that asked that question and tell them......oh, since you asked that question back in October, the memory of something that I forgot to tell you about has suddenly come back........my house was partially destroyed by a tornado in September and I just forgot about it until just now!"

Key excerpts from Sondland

• "[B]y the beginning of September 2019, and in the absence of any credible explanation for the suspension of aid, I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anti-corruption statement."
• "Also I now do recall a conversation on September 1, 2019, in Warsaw with Mr. Yermak [an aide to Zelensky]. This brief pull-aside conversation followed the larger meeting involving Vice President Pence and President Zelensky, in which President Zelensky had raised the issue of the suspension of U.S. aid to Ukraine directly with Vice President Pence. After that large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks."

metmike: Making it even more uncredible is what he based this on:

"I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anti-corruption statement."

No evidence or facts, just his presumption because of the short delay. 

Key excerpts from Volker

• "I don't recall ever hearing that the President was interested in investigating Burisma. I became aware of the President being interested in investigations concerning Vice President Biden and his son on September 25th when the transcript of the phone call came out."

This is the transcript of the phone call again. Please tells us what the crime was. Please find the quid pro quo because Ukraine did nothing for Trump and they still got their aid for nothing being done. 

Have you even read it?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

This thread is now a month long, and the number of posts is causing scrolling down issues for users, especially for people using phones and I-pads  so we need to start another new one. 

Please continue to troll with your Trump bashing threads. It's intriguing to see what others consider to be legit news reporting by the MSM.